The Last Punch in the ACC/Big East Fight

[Swaggs]

Boston College to Join ACC on Sunday

Unbelievable.

[GrantDawg]

Not really unbelieveable. The ACC needs another team, and Boston College is the best they can get at this point. There is no way they can break even on this deal without a championship game, and the NCAA was not going to allow one without another team. BC was the best fit willling to jump.

[The_herd]

F**K the ACC.

[SirFozzie]

heh.

I'm just glad it's OVER.

BC will be a floater in both Basketball and Football. We won't have a chance at a BCS bid, and the ACC is THE toughest basketball conference.. maybe one division championship every 5-10 years. But this is an athletic move made with academic motives.

[vtbub]

I'm happy for BC, they wil benefit from the move.

I'm very dissapointed in the ACC, diluting the best conference in basketball is not a good move.

[Swaggs]

I think you are confused Foz, you must have meant to say:

Originally posted by SirFozzie
But this is an athletic move made with $$$$$$$$ motives.

[Marmel]

Originally posted by SirFozzie
heh.

and the ACC is THE toughest basketball conference..

Assuming the Big East picks up Louisville, and Cincinnati......

With VTech and Miami and BC going to the ACC, I think there is a new King of Basketball conferences. We weeded out 2 of the worst programs and a very average program. We also have 2 of the last 4 NCAA Champions, and the preseason #1 and another 1 or 2 top 10 programs.

[The_herd]

I agree, academic's were a distant 3rd on the list of motives behind 1. Money and 2. Athletics. This is the ACC being tired of the SEC and Big 12 raking in all the cash they get from bowl appearances and conference championship games (which make no sense in college football). The ACC has stated it's about survival, that the future of college football is 12 team "super conferences". This is the biggest load of bull I've ever heard. This is all about money and stamping out one its competitor's for recruits and dollars on the east coast. This sets off a chain of events that will also severely damage the MAC and Conference USA.

Boston College will forever be mediocre at best in football and basketball now. Virginia Tech's will no longer be guaranteed a top 3 finish in fooball and will be a joke in basketball. Miami will continue to dominate fooball as FSU and Florida begin to fade and their competition for recuits is mostly from out of state teams. In basketball they will suffer the same fate as Virginia Tech.

As for the ACC as a whole, their chances of getting a team in the Championship game are greatly reduced because of the conference championship game. The best basketball conference in the country is now watered down by adding 2 bottom feeders. Its tradition tarnished. There were hardly ever any easy wins in conference play in the ACC now you have Miami and Virginia Tech, the equivalent of byes for most of the ACC teams.

To hell with the ACC.

[vtbub]

Sadly, I agree with Marm

What u want to give me for oddstat ND joins the Big East.

[SirFozzie]

High odds. They already are, but they do NOT want to give up their independent freedom (their own freakin network contract)

And there was quite a few stories here how the folks who run BC were kinda nudging the athletic department forward because they wanted the academic link up with the NC universities. (duke especially)

BC Basketball is better then folks think, last year we were quite frankly screwed out of a NCAA berth, and we've been very good the last few years.

[Marmel]

I could see ND doing a part time Big East affiliation. They will probably agree to play 3 Big East teams in football per season (which they almost do already), and keep the Bowl tie ins in place.

They will never join a conference full time in football, and certainly not the Big East.

[vtbub]

If ND can keep the Big East's BCS spot, I bet that money can buy ND.

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by GrantDawg
The ACC needs another team, and Boston College is the best they can get at this point.

Actually they took the best television market left at this point. They sure as hell didn't take the best athletic program.

[ScottVib]

The ACC had no choice they found out that the Football deal offered Still went down after adding Miami and Virginia Tech. Not only that but the hoops deal went down because of Miami and Virginia Tech (the dilution of the conference means fewer marquee matchups).

The ADs at several schools were vocal in only being in favor of expansion if it kept them whole. Meaning they kept their 9.7 million dollar pay out. Well after expanding by only 2 schools that didn't happen, they had less income then they had before coming in and now 2 extra mouths to feed. The title game became necessary because they need the extra 7-10 million to come close to breaking even and the Boston Market might increase the TV deals slightly.

The ACC thought it would make a huge profit on this expansion, but now they're struggling to break even on the deal.


Edit - Markets weren't the only reason it had to be BC. Without BC the long shot chance the Big East had of landing ND is gone, and the ACC had to make sure it didn't happen. Besides now they can get the warm fuzzy feeling that they are righting the "past injustice" of BC's rejection.

[Butter]

Originally posted by ScottVib
...and the Boston Market might increase the TV deals slightly.

How does chicken figure into this equation?

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by lynchjm24
Actually they took the best television market left at this point. They sure as hell didn't take the best athletic program.

I meant the best total package available (TV Market, travel, accademics, and team). You could get a better team that doesn't have the market or accademics, or a etc. Boston College was the best available all around.

[Wolfpack]

I have to believe that the ACC did not do this so much for generating lots of revenue, but to prevent loss. They spun it as a chance to increase revenues, but with TV deals coming to an end in football, they were probably getting told that they were going to be renegotiated downward, since FSU remained the only marquee draw in the conference for TV. Thus, they needed to expand to keep everyone at about $10 million. If they didn't, it could very well have been that ACC teams would have lost money.

So, they grabbed Miami and VT (by VT and state of VA's coercion) to make football more attractive, but a lot hinged on getting that title game with 11 teams. When the NCAA essentially said "No", they quickly acted to get a twelfth, and since ND refused to join as an "all-but-football" school, they went back to BC who was very willing to come previously. At 11 without a title game that would have added $1 million to each school to offset the reduction in further pie-splitting, the need for 12 was self-evident. Because of BC's location relative to the 11 other schools, I have to believe they at least contacted Pittsburgh, Penn State, Syracuse, and perhaps a couple of others, but got a negative reaction, so they came back to BC.

The lingering detail is now how BC gets out of the Big East, since the Big East supposedly recently made it harder to get out ($5 million or a 27-month notice), not to mention the admittance fees to get into the ACC, though I suspect the ACC will be willing to reduce or forego the fee to make up for bringing BC in after the change in terms by the Big East. If they pay the fees to both conferences quickly, they could be in by next year (2004-05), though ACC commish John Swofford has said that if they elect not to pay the exit fee, it could be as late as 2006-07, though I don't think this will happen simply because that means BC will have to face two-and-a-half years of lame duck status in the Big East. BC's president has already said that they'll do what's necessary to leave the Big East as quickly as possible and if that means ponying up $5 million, they'll do that.

At any rate, now that the dust is beginning to settle again (excluding the good folks who work for the State of Connecticut, who seem ready and willing to do the American thing and sue the pants off the individual ACC members if need be since the ACC as an organization was dropped from the lawsuit on Friday), the new ACC is thus:

Boston College, Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech, NC State, North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, and Miami.

Academically, no major conferences has so many private schools featured so prominently (four), in addition to two schools that like to think of themselves as "public Ivy" (UNC, UVa). There are also several large state universities that make up the rest of the conference, Georgia Tech being the smallest of that group.

Football-wise, Miami and VT are immediate upgrades and judging by the failure of the overhyped "new blood" at NC State, Virginia, and Maryland to maintain upward momentum this year, figure to be the only reliable year-in, year-out competitors for Florida State. Boston College brings a decent football program that figures to be average to above average in the conference in most years (on a level with NC State, Virginia, Maryland, Georgia Tech, and Clemson, basically). There has been concern that VT's national success would not survive the loss of Frank Beamer at some point in the future, but that I don't think will happen for several years at which point VT will be a desirable coaching position, so I do think VT's probably in the national picture for the long haul. Remember, FSU had nothing before Bobby Bowden came and I don't think that program will turn to dust after he leaves.

Basketball-wise, this is somewhat of a downgrade for the ACC, as VT is among the worst basketball schools in Division I and Miami, except for a brief stretch of success under Leonard Hamilton in the late 90s, hasn't been a stellar program, either. It remains to be seen whether Perry Clark can right the ship, especially now that he'll be in the ironic position of competing with Leonard Hamilton at Florida State. Boston College has always been one of those programs that is consistent, neither experiencing the highs of national success, but they don't go into the basement, either. Again, an average to above average program. Being a part of the ACC will keep them there. Tradition will be broken as home-and-home series become impossible to conduct, but with weaker members in the conference, other teams that were on the bubble in the ACC (NC State, Georgia Tech, Virginia) may benefit from fewer games against ACC goliaths UNC, Duke, and Maryland and getting more conference wins against Miami, VT, and Clemson, which might be enough to get six teams a year into the NCAA tournament in future years. It had been a growing concern that the ACC was only getting three or four bids anymore, which was somewhat indicative of the top-heavy nature of the league for several years in the late 90s and early 2000s.

As for other sports, the significant addition is Miami for baseball. The ACC had been a pretty solid conference before, but Miami adds another national championship contender to the mix. The SEC is probably still a little deeper, but the gap is narrower. BC's addition raises ACC membership in Rowing, Field Hockey, and Women's Lacrosse to 6 (if I've done my census right), which allows the conference champion to get an automatic berth into NCAA championships in those sports.

Obviously, the hard part for BC is that they'll be one of the most distant outposts of the conference, both geographically and culturally. It's a Catholic institution in New England, whereas the rest of the ACC is dominated by Southern state and private Protestant schools. Miami is in a similar state, even though they are in Florida. South Florida is culturally different from northern Florida. In fact, on average, Boston College and Miami are roughly similar distances to the rest of the ACC schools. However, Miami's travel budgets for non-revenue sports shrinks drastically (Maryland, until BC's admittance, was the furtherest ACC school from Miami and only Virginia Tech among Big East schools was closer), while BC's will expand greatly as they no longer have short trips to Syracuse, UConn, Seton Hall, St. John's and Providence, but instead have long trips to NC State, Georgia Tech, and Florida State.

All in all, it'll be an interesting mix.

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by Wolfpack





At any rate, now that the dust is beginning to settle again (excluding the good folks who work for the State of Connecticut, who seem ready and willing to do the American thing and sue the pants off the individual ACC members if need be since the ACC as an organization was dropped from the lawsuit on Friday), the new ACC is thus:

While the original lawsuit wasn't built on the strongest ground, the lawsuit against BC is completely valid. BC is a bunch of scumbags who I hope never win another game.

I was at the Connecticut-NC State game Saturday. I never wanted my team to win a game so bad in my life. UConn was the better team Saturday, and that made the loss sting even worse.

Besides that, Boston College is overrated as an educational institution, and isn't even a blip on the sports scene in Mass. May the ACC never win another out of conference game.

[The_herd]

This is getting ridiculous

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

MIAMI (AP) -- The University of Miami filed suit against the Big East Conference and four of its member schools Monday, claiming it suffered "substantial monetary damages" by remaining in the league.

The school also filed a separate lawsuit against the University of Connecticut for defamation. Both were filed in state circuit court in Miami.

Miami will seek an undetermined amount in damages, said Eric Isicoff, the school's attorney.

"There's a lot of issues here about the harm that's been caused," Isicoff said. "It's going to be a huge sum of money."

Big East spokesman John Paquette acknowledged that the conference had seen the lawsuit, but had no comment regarding it.

The four other league members named in the suit are Connecticut, West Virginia, Rutgers and Pittsburgh -- schools which are currently suing Miami, alleging it was involved in a conspiracy with the Atlantic Coast Conference to weaken the Big East.

Miami and Virginia Tech -- the league's premier football schools _ are leaving the Big East to join the ACC after the current academic year ends. Boston College is also leaving the Big East for the ACC, but perhaps not until 2006.

[Young Drachma]

"Those were the days..."