So whatever happened to Baby Lisa?

[Ben E Lou]

I confess that I've gotten caught up in following the latest cute-white-girl-gone-missing story. I usually don't pay any attention to these, but this one caught my eye from day 1 because I happened to be on vacation and the other couple in the beach house had turned on the TV the day she disappeared, and I saw the crying mother. And of course as a parent of a daughter, it pulls at my heartstrings.

There are links to the story all over the place, though I didn't look to find one that has a timeline of the case. Short version of the basic and undisputed facts for those who haven't been following along at home:

• 10-month-old (now 11) with two brothers around 4 and 6 or so.
• Daddy works an overnight shift on a Monday night
• Mama puts baby down for night, drinks on front porch with neighbor lady. Boys play video games inside, until they go to bed. I'm unclear on whether "the boys" in the house at this point are just the brothers or if neighbor lady also.
• Mama says she drank enough to get drunk, and may have blacked out.
• Daddy comes home approx. 4am, baby is not in crib.
• No sign of baby for over 2 weeks now, and police are saying they have no good leads, and have said at least once that parents are not suspects. (Early quotes from police said that evidence at the home led them to believe it was an abduction.)

As with most cases of this type, I'm initially inclined to suspect the mother, but she doesn't seem like the sharpest knife in the drawer. Therefore, I find it a bit far-fetched to think that she killed Lisa or Lisa died accidentally, and the mom, drunk, figured out a way to hide the body so well that all of these well-trained investigators and searchers haven't been able to find it for 2+ weeks. (Some of the stories indicate that she doesn't drive and didn't even have a car at home that night since hubby was away.)

But the break-in and abduction scenario doesn't make much sense either. Who takes a 10-month-old? The typical baby abduction is that of an infant that the abductor can then pass off as her own. Kinda hard to introduce a 10-month-old into the family unless, I guess, you try to claim adoption. *shurg* And the police attempted to re-create how a person could have gotten in a particular window that appeared possibly tampered with, and had great difficulty doing it.

I assume that the police have verified that the father didn't leave work until shortly before he says he returned home, so he wouldn't have had time to help or be the guilty party. So I'm kind of left with the same "wtf" feeling that the cops are projecting publicly about this one.

[Ksyrup]

This isn't new info (it was posted on the 7th), and there's really nothing here to answer your question, but I regularly follow this blog and there's some interesting info in here about cold cases involving unsolved child abductions involving non-family members. They are rare, but they happen.

The author of this blog, btw, is Patton Oswalt's wife.

True Crime Diary

[Rizon]

No doubt in my mind the mom had something to do with it.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Rizon

No doubt in my mind the mom had something to do with it.

* and it's on the tv when I go to lunch, I haven't really followed it in great detail, but too many things sound fishy and has this "heard this all before" vibe.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

...cold cases involving unsolved child abductions involving non-family members. They are rare, but they happen.

Oh yes, agreed. It's certainly possible. It just seems unlikely. And I guess that's what has had me continuing to follow this story--the fact that both alternatives seem very unlikely to me.

[Ksyrup]

Seeing as though they have a warrant to search the house right now, when the lawyer and family are claiming they don't need one, suggests the cops have some reason to believe someone in the family is involved and they don't want to screw anything up procedurally if/when they find evidence or a body.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I actually have quite a bit of inside info on this case.

1. The police are 100% positive that the mom is responsible.

2. When the police went to replicate the incident the way the parents say it happened, they found cobwebs on the escape window that should have been disturbed if it happened as the parents said it did.

3. The parents said that the person that broke in went through the house after they got the baby, turning on the lights and taking three cell phones. Doesn't make much sense if you're target is the baby.

4. The family has retained the same lawyer that worked for Van der Sloot (Holloway case in Aruba). No one will say who's paying those bills, but you likely don't retain that kind of a lawyer unless you expect to be a defendant.

5. There was initially a search where they considered draining a well a week or so ago. The FBI told the police to stop that search before the well was drained. The FBI wouldn't do that unless they have a pretty good idea where the baby might be.

[Logan]

Fasten your seatbelts...

[Ksyrup]

When the mom states publicly she expects to be arrested, she did it. She's just trying to garner sympathy and misdirect the media to a supposed "witch hunt" against the mom, since there's no public info out there to directly connect her with it.

[Shepp]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I'm initially inclined to suspect the mother, but she doesn't seem like the sharpest knife in the drawer.

I think the Casey Anthony trial proved you don't have to be a rocket scientist to get away with killing your kid.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Shepp

I think the Casey Anthony trial proved you don't have to be a rocket scientist to get away with killing your kid.

Sure, but I'm just talking about the difficulty in this particular case of *hiding* the body, not of committing the crime and getting away with it. Wasn't that the case where she had some time to hide the body, and may have had help doing it? This lady was drunk, had no car, and had a few hours max. Sure, it's possible, but it seems far more likely that this chick would have left an easy trail to follow.

[Ksyrup]

Well, they brought a metal detector onto the property, so it may be as smple as burying the body on the grounds, just hiding it well. She also might have had the husband's help.

She might have been drinking, but I'm inclined to believe she's exaggerating a bit to set up a plausible "I did it but didn't know what I was doing" defense, or to explain how all of this could have happened and she was completely out of it.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Well, they brought a metal detector onto the property, so it may be as smple as burying the body on the grounds, just hiding it well. She also might have had the husband's help.

She might have been drinking, but I'm inclined to believe she's exaggerating a bit to set up a plausible "I did it but didn't know what I was doing" defense, or to explain how all of this could have happened and she was completely out of it.

I don't claim to know much about crime scene investigations, but it would seem that you or I could walk on the property at daybreak and notice a spot where someone was digging pretty quickly. Surely the cops didn't miss something like that, right?

[Ksyrup]

I don't know how big the property is or what is beyond the border of their property. They apparently marked off half a block around the house. Really depends on the terrain, etc., I would guess.

The other thing is, this makes it sound like perhaps they have some specific information to look for a certain type of item. Although they've probably done a search, this is a search based on warrant, which tells me they think they might find something and/or have specific info to target the search:

Young said investigators were bringing in a bomb and arson truck to assist in the search. He said there were no indications of explosives in the house. Some bomb detection devices use X-ray technology to scan solid objects to reveal items concealed within.

[Ben E Lou]

Interesting, Ksyrup. Makes sense to some degree. They've had a number of searches that they've claimed/admitted were based on little/no indication that they'd find anything, so maybe this one is different.

[CU Tiger]

Man these issing baby stories always bring the suck...I love my kids so much (like most parents) it hurts to read these.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I actually have quite a bit of inside info on this case.

So is Lisa in the SEC or the B1G.....*I keed, I keed*

[Ksyrup]

The police are meeting today and Baby Lisa is guaranteed to be found by next Tuesday at the latest.

[spleen1015]

How can they guarantee something like that?

[Flasch186]

Do they have a tracking number?

[Ksyrup]

Sorry, that's a joke related to MizzouBBFan's continued pronouncements in the Realignment/Expansion thread and the fact that for the 105th time in the past 18 months, Mizzou is definitely leaving the Big 12.

[judicial clerk]

Did the parents pass their polygraphs?

[Rizon]

WTF?
So a guy sees someone walking around with a baby at 4am ... and a couple of women see a guy walking around with a baby a few hours earlier?

So someone kidnaps a baby then walks around with her in the neighborhood for two hours??

I think all these people might be drinkin somethin.

Missing Baby Lisa: Three Eyewitnesses Convinced of Sighting - ABC News

[Ksyrup]

This might explain the recent police activity around the house:

Jeanine Pirro by FoxNews
Oct.17th: FBI cadaver dog brought into baby lisa’s home indicated “positive” for scent of deceased human in Bradley’s bedroom near bed

[Rizon]

I still like the theory she had the baby in bed and rolled over on her (she's ... epically huge) and is going to use the drinking as an excuse (doubt she was drinking) and dumped the body out of "panic/daddy issues" ala Casey Anthony.

[Ben E Lou]

Lisa Irwin missing: Baby Lisa's brothers to be interviewed by police and have DNA tests | Mail Online

Interesting bit:

DNA samples are being taken in order to eliminate unknown DNA evidence from items collected from inside the family home.

Does that mean that they've found DNA of someone else who possibly "didn't belong there" in the house?

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

Would it also be safe to assume that it could just be DNA from a friend they had over to play?

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Dola:

Would it also be safe to assume that it could just be DNA from a friend they had over to play?

October 3: Mother spotted on surveillance footage buying wine at grocery store with unidentified man. Claims she put Lisa to bed at 10:30pm.

I haven't heard the unidentified man yet, but haven't heard anything about the story for about a week. I'm guessing to eliminate him and/or friends ... but then again, "DNA evidence" would most likely be bodily fluids?

[Shepp]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Lisa Irwin missing: Baby Lisa's brothers to be interviewed by police and have DNA tests | Mail Online

Interesting bit:



Does that mean that they've found DNA of someone else who possibly "didn't belong there" in the house?

Either that or they want to sort out whose DNA was located where and on what.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Rizon

I haven't heard the unidentified man yet, but haven't heard anything about the story for about a week. I'm guessing to eliminate him and/or friends ... but then again, "DNA evidence" would most likely be bodily fluids?

1. Unidentified man was her brother.
2. Would a sneeze from a playmate with a cold spray DNA all over the place? (I don't know, but I'd think so.)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Local lawyer fired by parents.......

Report: KC Attorney Forced Off Baby Lisa Case - Kansas City News Story - KMBC Kansas City

[Ben E Lou]

The family's account of what happened...


Details emerge about the night baby Lisa Irwin disappeared - KansasCity.com

[Ben E Lou]

So what I find most interesting about that story is that it sounds like the most of the critical times would be fairly easy for law enforcement to verify. There is one thing that's not clear, though...

Bradley put Lisa in her crib about 6:40 p.m., while Brando headed to a store to purchase liquor for herself.

So, did the neighbor actually see an alive baby at that point? If so, I find it impossible to believe that the mother killed her (or she died in an accident), hid the body, and was acting normal 20 minutes later when the neighbor came back...

Brando returned to the Irwin home about 7 p.m. and sat on the front stoop with Bradley. The two smoked cigarettes, talked and drank into the night. By 10:30 p.m., Bradley, who had consumed five to 10 glasses of wine, was intoxicated. She told Brando that she was going to bed. Brando left.

I suppose it's possible that drunk mother caused the baby's death at some point between 10:30pm and 4am, but I'm still struggling with the ability of drunk mother to hide a body that well. Last timing-related stuff...

Irwin finished his work at Starbucks at 3:45 ha.m. and drove to his Northland home.

Assuming this time is verifiable, the timing of the frantic knocks on the neighbor's door and the ensuing 9-1-1 call can probably completely rule out the father having had anything to do with it. After reading this, i guess I'm brought back to the same "wtf" feeling I had when I first posted this thread. There are reports of some dude wandering around town holding a baby at various points during the night. "Wisdom" says that a kidnapper wouldn't be walking around in public with a baby like that, but who knows?

[spleen1015]

At this point, anything is possible, I think. If we ever find out what really happened, I wouldn't be surprised it was something pretty abnormal from a kidnapping perspective.

[Ben E Lou]

Warning: a flere diagram would be needed to follow this article. Gracious...

From ‘mother hen’ to media villain: The life of Debbie Bradley, missing baby Lisa Irwin's mom - KansasCity.com

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Police tell mom of missing Mo. baby: 'You did it' - Yahoo! News

[stevew]

I thought this was about Baby Lisa, until I just realized that Missouri must be the epicenter of phantom babynappings.

shelby Dasher, Missouri Mother, Charged With Murdering Tot

By JIM SALTER 11/16/11 08:21 PM ET

AFFTON, Mo. -- A suburban St. Louis woman who claimed her 13-month-old son had vanished from his crib was charged Wednesday with murdering him, after prosecutors say she admitted beating him because he wouldn't stop crying.

Shelby Dasher, 20, was arrested less than 16 hours after she reported her son, Tyler, was missing. People walking their dog found Tyler Dasher's body on Tuesday near a cemetery about a mile from his home.

St. Louis County prosecutor Bob McCulloch said Dasher admitted to police that she repeatedly hit her son because he was crying and "wouldn't lay down, wouldn't go back to sleep." He said she also told police she disposed of her son's body.

"Raising children can be frustrating. There are a myriad of ways to handle that," McCulloch said. "This isn't one of them."

McCulloch revealed little else about the boy's death, except to say it appeared he hadn't been struck with objects or weapons. He declined to say when investigators believe the child died.

Police said when Dasher called to report her son missing, she told them she overslept that morning and discovered him gone from his crib when she awoke. His body was found within about 100 feet of a busy road.

Dasher was being held on $500,000 cash bond. The state's electronic court system did not list an attorney for her Wednesday afternoon, and a county jail worker declined to convey a request to Dasher seeking comment.

Before the charges were announced, detectives and uniformed officers came and went Wednesday from the family's small frame home, which is in a working class neighborhood. Yellow police tape surrounded the home, and a large Halloween pumpkin was on the front porch.

A long, wide area near the cemetery also was cordoned off. A cluster of young adults nearby cried and hugged as they watched officers mill around the scene. It wasn't clear if they were relatives of Tyler, and they declined interview requests.


"It says to me it's a pretty sick person," St. Louis County Police Chief Tim Fitch said. "Anybody that would take a child and leave a child in a wooded area in that condition needs to be dealt with severely by the criminal justice system."

Johnny Ellington, whose 24-year-old son, Joe Ellington, is Tyler's father, said he knew little about the investigation beyond what had been reported in the news. He said his family had been questioned by police and that the family advised Joe not to talk to the media.

Johnny Ellington, 65, said his son and Dasher were never married, and that his family saw Tyler frequently.

"He was just a wonderful baby and beautiful boy," he said.

Neighbors described the area where the Dashers live as quiet, the people close. But several neighbors said they knew little about Dasher or her son because the family had only moved into their rented home a little over a year ago.

"Everybody here kind of knows each other, but not them," said Rick Angeles, 28, who lives across the street with his wife and 3-year-old son. Angeles said a lot of young people were in and out of the Dasher home frequently but he never saw anything that concerned him.

Tim Adair was visiting his sister's home three houses down from the Dashers. He said Tyler's grandmother came over Tuesday, distraught, and told them the boy was missing. She said she had no idea where he could be.

"My niece gave her a hug and talked with her and prayed with her," Adair said. "I can't imagine how difficult this would be."

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[BishopMVP]

"Raising children can be frustrating. There are a myriad of ways to handle that," McCulloch said. "This isn't one of them."

Nice deadpan, prosecutor.

[stevew]

Watching the family on Dr. Phil today. This is certainly the "all in" moment for the death penalty if they did it. I also wonder who would want a child from such below average people .

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Nice deadpan, prosecutor.

I think that's referred to as Lenny Briscoe Syndrome.