02-27-2012, 06:39 PM | #201 |
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02-27-2012, 06:44 PM | #202 |
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How's Ned Yost working out in Royals land? I was always a fan of the guy in Milwaukee and thought he'd be a good fit in KC.
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02-27-2012, 07:08 PM | #203 |
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Wow- Royals lock him in with little risk. Basically bought out his cost controlled years for 5yr/$7M and then 3 option years for $19.5M. Even if he sucks and they have to cut him, he costs them next to nothing.
Ok, so he was going to get paid $1M the next two years pre-arb. That means as long as he does better than $2M per year after that, they've come out ahead. And what happens if he's actually, you know, good? Then the savings are enormous. SI
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02-27-2012, 07:10 PM | #204 | |
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I think the consensus is that he's doing a good job of helping the young guys develop. No one's really sure if he's the long term answer but he's a very good fit for a young, building team. SI
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02-27-2012, 08:29 PM | #205 | |
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Pretty much the same in Milwaukee. He didn't handle the road bumps that came with becoming a better team but he was always a learner and wouldn't count on him repeating the same mistakes the second time around. That said, he'll drive some people nuts tactically. |
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02-27-2012, 08:36 PM | #206 | |
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Pulling this from the last page. I had this exact same conversation with my wife (who's an RN at a drug treatment facility) because my memory from working at drug rehab places in college was that the validity of a sample was seriously degraded after 24 hours. If we didn't keep it refrigerated and couldn't get it to the lab within 24 hours, standard protocol was to toss it. She agreed 100% with your wife and wanted to know why the fuck this was such a big deal. She said "It's bad medicine and bad science. Why are they even debating it? Just have the guy piss in a cup again and do the test right." |
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02-27-2012, 08:51 PM | #207 | |
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Because the witch hunt mentality there is when it comes to steroids doesn't care if a few innocents get thrown under the bus so long as they get a few real users and the process of finding users is never questioned. No amount of science can hold off the pitch forks at this point. People have already made up their mind. |
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02-27-2012, 09:19 PM | #208 |
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I'm reading the Molina was extended by the Cards. 5/70-75.
I haven't read much about it but my initial reaction is "what." Am I not giving him enough credit? I know he is a good defensive catcher, but that just seems excessive. |
02-27-2012, 09:20 PM | #209 |
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Much happier about Sal Perez contract after seeing those numbers bandied about
SI
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02-27-2012, 09:32 PM | #210 | |
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There's some witch hunting but there's also holes in the story. I'm content to look at it this way and move on - If they seal the vacuum samples before they mail them, and the seal preserves the sample for more than day, he's a cheater, and more annoyingly to me, a liar. If they don't, it's a corrupted test. I haven't seen anything conclusive on that, but the fact that his stated defense is that the tester spiked the sample, rather than just it was not reliable, is a pretty strong indication to me that that's his BEST defense (which isn't a good one). If it's as simple as "after 24 hours its never any good", why not just say that at press conference, and why not make that the public exoneration/defense? And why ship everything off to Canada, even if it's late Friday/Saturday and it won't get there until Monday? Last edited by molson : 02-27-2012 at 09:35 PM. |
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02-27-2012, 09:35 PM | #211 |
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No, it is merely the easiest defense - they violated the CBA.
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02-27-2012, 09:45 PM | #212 |
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02-27-2012, 09:49 PM | #213 |
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I'm just looking at guilt or innocence, the arbiters can make their own judgment calls based on the evidence they here. And there was no "violation", there's just a policy that lists what the tester "should" do, and with that info the arbiter can make the call whether Braun was using performance enhancing substances. And THAT'S the question, is Braun guilty of violating the drug policy. It's the classic defense attorney strategy to try to confuse the issue and make the question, "were the procedures followed perfectly?", but that's not the relevant question. It might be EVIDENCE to support an answer to the ultimate question, but it's not itself the question. (It's very similar to a criminal defense attorney trying to make the trial about whether the police officer did everything perfectly, which is great strategy). But in any event, in his public plea of innocence, the one his lawyers probably prepared word for word, Braun is relying on a tampering allegation, and I think that's telling. Last edited by molson : 02-27-2012 at 09:52 PM. |
02-27-2012, 09:54 PM | #214 | |
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Guilty as charged . And that's my point exactly. Go for the easiest thing to prove.
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02-27-2012, 09:55 PM | #215 | |
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That makes sense. If you're a defense attorney you attack the shit out of that tester and his sloppiness for sure (but personally, I'd have left out the tampering allegations, even if I knew the sample would be good for 6 months sealed.) Last edited by molson : 02-27-2012 at 09:56 PM. |
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02-27-2012, 10:00 PM | #216 |
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But was it properly sealed?
And do you want your client speaking on things that you may not be able to prove (it doesn't matter if the other side can't prove the contrary)?
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"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams Last edited by ISiddiqui : 02-27-2012 at 10:01 PM. |
02-27-2012, 10:17 PM | #217 | |
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I have no idea if it was sealed in a manner that preserves it more than a day, my opinion on the guilt/innocence of this would come down to that alone. Since I'm not sure of that, I'm just looking at the tampering accusations as evidence that Braun and his people knew it was sealed and that's the best innocence argument they have. So to me, that makes him look guilty, but I'm sure others have different takes on it and his people clearly aren't dumb. And I'd have a big ethical problem about publicly accusing someone of a serious crime without support, and even strongly implying such a thing. I mean at least in my jurisdictions and probably most, defense attorneys aren't randomly accusing police officers of planting evidence just because its theoretically possible that they could. I think that's a combination of ethics and the fact that the jury wouldn't like it. Here, it was maybe hidden enough that the public isn't going to turn on just because of that, but if you read the transcript, that's clearly what he's doing. Last edited by molson : 02-27-2012 at 10:20 PM. |
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02-28-2012, 04:21 AM | #218 | |
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Big difference between confusing a jury and confusing an arbitrator, the former is much, much easier. Can't we just let all the facts play out before rushing to judgment? There probably is more to this story which will leak out over time. |
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02-28-2012, 10:35 AM | #219 | |
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He is a 4 WAR player playing in his prime years. Seems like a decent deal for both sides. Cards may have overpaid just a bit but I am sure they like the comfort of having the best defensive catcher in baseball locked up. |
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02-28-2012, 10:39 AM | #220 | |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
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What? I'm ready to pretend like it never happened. I definitely don't want this to drag out any longer.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
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02-28-2012, 10:58 AM | #221 | |
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Was he still the best defensive catcher last year? I know he didn't throw out near the rate of baserunners that he has before. Fielding metrics really throw me for a loop, though, so I can't verify for myself. |
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02-28-2012, 11:07 AM | #222 | |
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His fielding was down last year. According to the metics he was a 0.6 DWAR last year down from 1.6 DWAR(6th in the league) the previous year. He only threw out 29 percent of the runners last year as well which was down from 49 percent the previous year. I dont think there is an issue as he looked very impressive defensively in the post season but the defensive numbers did fall off quite a bit last year. Last edited by jbergey22 : 02-28-2012 at 11:08 AM. |
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02-28-2012, 11:11 AM | #223 |
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Not to mention he is a career .707 OPS hitter. Seems risky and overpay to me.
We'll have to see. Last edited by Scoobz0202 : 02-28-2012 at 11:13 AM. |
02-28-2012, 11:35 AM | #224 |
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I guess you consider how well the staff has been performing with him behind the plate. I don't know those numbers, but I know St. Louis generally has a very strong rotation. While the pitchers should get most of the credit, clearly Molina is doing a good job handling them as well.
That said, I agree, my gut says that's an awfully big deal for a defensive specialist. In semi-related news and one which will be rejoiced by sabermetric fans everywhere, Bengie Molina has officially retired. Thanks for 2002, Bengie.
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02-28-2012, 11:58 AM | #225 | |
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I guess he never was able to physically recover from hitting a triple (as part of the cycle) and later stealing a base during his 2010 stint with the Rangers.
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02-28-2012, 12:10 PM | #226 | |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
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I know this was just a throw-away comment, but it's crap like this that really irks me, because it attempts to perpetuate this myth that stat-driven analysis goes beyond the numbers to take personal stances for and against players. The player is what his numbers say he is. If the dude wants to play until he's 64, more power to him. If anything, it's the team that gets cut on for choosing to employ a player who has demonstrated he's worth far less than your average AAA player. It's nothing personal against the player. /end unnecessary rant
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02-28-2012, 12:15 PM | #227 | |
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No, it's an acknowledgment that certain players are more efficient than others, and that that quality is highly valued by fans of the game who utilize sabermetrics as the measure of that efficiency. Those fans will enjoy the quality of play of those players better than the inefficient ones, of which Molina was a prime example. So it's not a stretch, whether it irks you or not, that there are fans of sabermetrics who are not unhappy to see Bengie Molina retire.
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02-28-2012, 12:23 PM | #228 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
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Certainly, there will be fans of whatever team that would be very happy he has retired rather than be signed b y their team to waste a roster spot. "Rejoicing" that he's out of the game? No, I don't think so. Even the occasional jokes about his value as a player don't cut to the personal level in that way.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
02-28-2012, 01:29 PM | #229 | |
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I'm sorry, but there are elements of the metric proponents that do actively hate certain players. They rejoice in their failures, and actually get angry when they perform above their expectations. It is not all, or most, but some very vocal a-holes. |
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02-28-2012, 01:36 PM | #230 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
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I guess I've just miraculously happened to avoid those writers.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
02-28-2012, 01:44 PM | #231 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
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On the Yadi contract, FWIW:
Dan Szymborski Yadi had a wonderful year and is a great glove, but 5/75 really sounds too high. I'll see what ZiPS thinks. Dan Szymborski Nope, ZiPS says 5/75.3 markets cost right now for his 2013-2017.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
02-28-2012, 02:40 PM | #232 | ||
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This just came up on ESPN:
Milwaukee Brewers' Ryan Braun case -- sample collector says he followed protocols - ESPN Quote:
Another source says: Quote:
If I were Braun, I wouldn't stick my chest out and act like I've been exonerated completely. I'd thank the heavens that this technicality exists and move on. |
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02-28-2012, 02:44 PM | #233 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
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That's the thing that bothers me about this - Braun taking shots at this guy insinuating that the sample was tampered with. It's not really a victory for Braun if he just acknowledges the procedure might have been wrong, because everyone woudl still know the sample was positive. So he has to screw this guy over by suggesting, without any proof, that the sample must have been tampered with.
You can tell Braun's statement was heavily lawyered because he never mentions the guy's name or makes anything more than vague semi-accusations. Just terrible.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
02-28-2012, 02:50 PM | #234 |
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Braun's a schmuck.
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02-28-2012, 03:26 PM | #235 |
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They're not all writers.
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02-28-2012, 03:31 PM | #236 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
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I'm sorry, basement dwellers.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
02-28-2012, 03:34 PM | #237 | |
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Agreed. And what I find really funny is exactly what you say, Braun and his team clearly prepared this statement. It just seems over the top and reaching to jump forward to the tampering charge, rather than relying on the delay in testing that actually led the arbitrator to overturn the suspension. You woulda thought a bunch of people who are all at least reasonably intelligent would realize how silly and weird this would all look and not go this way. Of course, I also think they shouldn't have said anything but a simple statement acknowledging the result and being happy about it, rather than doing a PC proclaiming Braun's "innocence".
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02-28-2012, 03:56 PM | #238 |
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The person I'm more annoyed with in this whole thing is Aaron Rodgers, tbh. While I don't agree with what Braun did, I can at least understand it, since it's his livelihood at stake, and you expect someone to fight, etc. But Rodgers just comes off as a douchenozzle with his tweets claiming Braun's been exhonerated. i actually think less of Rodgers than I do Braun at this very moment.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
02-29-2012, 04:07 PM | #239 |
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Looks like there is another case of the Caribbean Magic Age Change happening. The Rangers just signed a top DR prospect, but evidently he has presented a couple of different dates of birth.
Baseball America | Blog | Baseball America Prospects Blog | Rangers’ Surprise Signing Draws Industry Scrutiny
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02-29-2012, 04:19 PM | #240 | |
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Expert says delay would not have altered Braun drug test - JSOnline
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02-29-2012, 06:58 PM | #241 |
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That expert assumes it was refrigerated, which the sample was not.
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03-01-2012, 12:26 PM | #242 |
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AJ Burnett, orbital bone fracture from bunting a ball off his face, out indefinitely.
The Pirates suck so bad, they can cause a downturn in AJ Burnett's post-Yankees career. That's pretty impressive.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
03-01-2012, 01:19 PM | #243 | |
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Did I miss a report or something that definitively said it wasn't? Everything I heard said it was, but it was not terribly convincing.
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03-01-2012, 01:21 PM | #244 | ||
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Quote:
From the guy who collected the sample: Quote:
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03-01-2012, 05:37 PM | #245 |
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Braungate.
The more Braun says the more guilty he makes himself look. He should just say nothing more about it. |
03-01-2012, 05:55 PM | #246 |
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We've all pretty much made up our mind at this point. Short of the arbitrator's decision getting released, there's not much else to say by anybody and I thought Braun's lawyer speaking today was dumb.
He'll be loved in Milwaukee and vilified elsewhere, and with an eternity left on his contract (9 years?), nothing's going to change that until he starts playing like shit when he gets old. He many not put up MVP numbers like he did last year without Fielder behind him but it's not going to be some huge drop off like some steroid alarmists would have you believe. I'm just ready for some games and talking shit to (mainly) Cardinal fans and likely this year Red fans. Of course there's always that chihuahua biting at your heels aka the Pittsburgh Pirates. Last edited by lungs : 03-01-2012 at 05:55 PM. |
03-01-2012, 06:01 PM | #247 |
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03-02-2012, 07:58 AM | #248 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
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I already knew this just based on things like the Howard contract and the Papelbon debacle (that's a great band name), but this just makes me sad to be a Phillies fan.
It's like being a Royals or Pirates fan earlier in the century, except they have enough money to overcome their willful ignorance. I mean, I'm cool with using various means to evaluate players, but they admit the only use they have for this stuff is to determine how other teams will value their players. Doesn't that tell you something? Inside the Phillies: Who needs sabermetrics?
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." Last edited by Ksyrup : 03-02-2012 at 07:58 AM. |
03-02-2012, 08:03 AM | #249 |
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His basement is refigerator temperature?
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03-02-2012, 08:13 AM | #250 | |
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OK, here's a HUGE pet peeve of mine about the misunderstanding of sabremetrics:
Quote:
This is NOT an example of SABR influence on baseball. In fact, it's just the opposite. One of the basic tenets of analyzing stats is sample size. Most (nearly all) SABR-inclined guys will tell you it's nuts to pinch hit a .750 OPS player with a .600 OPS guy just because the former is 1-12 in his career against a particular pitcher and the latter is 3-7. They don't even know or understand what they are objecting to. They should hire Joe Morgan away from the Reds as a consultant.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." Last edited by Ksyrup : 03-02-2012 at 08:13 AM. |
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