FOFC Advanced Civilization, Take Two

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

Here's the Census:

• 47 path12 [Illyria]
• 43 Warhammer [Assyria]
• 37 Aeon [Thrace]
• 34 CrimsonFox [Iberia]
• 28 Furrball [Africa]
• 28 britrock88 [Babylon]
• 24 passacaglia [Egypt]
• 17 Tarc [Crete]

Illyria builds a ship in Samnium.
Assyria builds a ship in Galatia.
Thrace builds no ships.
Iberia builds ships in Balaeres and Caralis.

Some of these might have been maintained instead of built new, I didn't really try to find out.

Africa is up.

[Passacaglia]

Tarc, just an FYI, we're waiting on you in the Take Two game. I think you've made a move in the other game since then, so just in case you didn't know.

[Passacaglia]

Hopefully everyone is cool with a Thanksgiving break in both games.

[CrimsonFox]

more commentary!

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

more commentary!

Yes -- more commentary is definitely warranted.

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

We had some conflict happen after everyone moved...

Belgica: Coexist between path12 [Illyria] AND CrimsonFox [Iberia]
path12 [Illyria] Population lost: 2
CrimsonFox [Iberia] Population lost: 2

Gaul: CrimsonFox [Iberia] wins with 3 Population remaining.
path12 [Illyria] Population lost: 1
CrimsonFox [Iberia]

Athens: Aeon [Thrace] wins with 4 Population remaining.
Tarc [Crete] Population lost: 2
Aeon [Thrace] Population lost: 1

Little skirmish between Iberia and Illyria. Iberia wins with 3 in Gaul, but it only supports 1, so they'll actually lose 2 more.

Crete and Thrace fight a little. Again, Athens only supports 1, so Thrace is going to lose 3 more. Thrace had 5 there, which is an odd number. Looks like they might have been trying to build a city, but fell one short -- there's a post where Warhammer and I complain about the interface being screwy. Be sure to check that you've got 6 where you want to have 6, guys. But maybe I'm missing something, since Crete did attack -- why would they attack a territory with 5 in it?

So I'm on the fence a little about some stuff. I'm probably the most experienced player, or at least, have the most recent experience. I want to let people know if they've made mistakes, but I don't want to come off like I know everything about the game (which I don't), and like I'm telling everyone how to play. But maybe if it just generates discussion, it'll be more like an open group, rather than me just calling out people. Since I felt like this next commentary will just be calling out path, I was kind of hoping to skip it and pick up later, but let's go.

The following players have completed their city construction phase:
0 path12 [Illyria]
The current player is 4 Furrball [Africa] (+1 potential)
The following players may complete their city construction after Furrball is done:
3 CrimsonFox [Iberia] (+2 potential)
4 Aeon [Thrace] (+2 potential)
0 Tarc [Crete] (+1 potential)
2 Warhammer [Assyria] (+4 potential)
5 britrock88 [Babylon] (+2 potential)
6 passacaglia [Egypt] (+1 potential)

Looks like path is done constructing cities, so he's probably already aware of his mistake. Illyria has 6 population in Rubicon, Pannonia, and Illyricum, but unfortunately, none of those have the squares that make them good city sites -- so those territories need 12 to build a city. That's going to hurt them a bit, but not so bad they can't recover.

[CrimsonFox]

I actually projected losing more in the fight. I think he moved. ANyway I would have lost all these regardless.

I also forgot about the coexisting thing.

Ah well.

Smash em, bash em.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Crete and Thrace fight a little. Again, Athens only supports 1, so Thrace is going to lose 3 more. Thrace had 5 there, which is an odd number. Looks like they might have been trying to build a city, but fell one short -- there's a post where Warhammer and I complain about the interface being screwy. Be sure to check that you've got 6 where you want to have 6, guys. But maybe I'm missing something, since Crete did attack -- why would they attack a territory with 5 in it?

Some context here: Crete and I (Thrace) have been coexisting in Athens for several turns. He landed some units there the same round I moved some in and we've both basically been just leaving it at that ever since. Every round we each have two, drop down to one each and leave it at that.

This turn I had extra units down in that area, so I decided to clear Athens out. I know moving 5 isn't a necessary move but those units were just going to die off as surplus population. So I just moved them all there--Crete had a move after me, so I wanted to make sure they didn't decide to move in more units.

[Autumn]

p.s. Pass - I'm waiting to hear from you on a trade in the other FOFC game.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Autumn

p.s. Pass - I'm waiting to hear from you on a trade in the other FOFC game.

Thanks. I'm pretty cool with the trade, but I want the Oil from Thrace as well as you, and I'm trying to get a deal in place with him and make sure he doesn't want Silver before I trade it to you.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Sure. Each card has a point value, that corresponds to what deck you drew it from.

1 = Hides and Ochre
2 = Iron and Papyrus
3 = Salt and Timber
4 = Grain and Oil
5 = Wine and Cloth
6 = Bronze and Silver
7 = Spice and Resin
8 = Dye and Gems
9 = Gold and Ivory

Now, the more cards you have of each type, the more it's worth, somewhat exponentially. The formula to determine how much your set is worth is:

number of cards in the set squared x point value of the card

So if you have 3 Grain, it's worth 3 x 3 x 4 = 36. Note that we only count grain here, not oil. So the idea is, in order to make your hand worth more, you don't want a Hides, a Papyrus, a Timber, and an Oil (10 points total). You'd rather have 4 Papyrus (4x4x2=32 total). That's where trading comes in.

Another note about the cards, each deck contains calamities. These are bad, and you don't want them. Some calamities are tradeable:

2 Treachery
3 Superstition
4 Slave Revolt
5 Hordes
6 Epidemic
7 Civil Disorder
8 Iconoclasm & Heresy

Some are not, and if you get them, you're just stuck with them:

2 Volcano
3 Famine
4 Civil War
5 Flood

When you trade, you must trade at least three cards at a time. Obviously, no one will want to trade with you if you have a calamity, so it's okay to lie -- however you must tell the truth about at least two of the cards. The site lets you do this -- when you make trades, a "lie" button will pop up, letting you claim that card is something else. Obviously, you'll lie when you trade calamities. Note that if you use "unspecified" when lying, this basically means that you're acknowleding that that card is a lie, which means you have to be telling the truth about the other two. This is good because if I want Bronze from you, and you trade me Bronze, Timber, and Iron, but the Bronze is the lie, that really screws me. But if you give me Bronze, Timber, and Unspecified, I can accept the possibility of receiving a calamity from you, as long as I know I'm getting the Bronze.

Hopefully that helps! Feel free to ask any questions if it doesn't!

okay. Is that all to trading? Moving cards and hitting done and waiting to see if the other person accepts? Or is there actual chatter and talking going on? Are you guys actually trading so far? Is it a secret that it happens?

[Passacaglia]

There's some other stuff that can help you out. On top, there's a "public message" window. You can type in there what you want, and what you have. You probably don't want to mention if you have any calamities, of course. If you look on the right, some people have already created a public message, so you can see what they want and what they have. There's also a link to email each person, too, so you can work out whatever deals you want in private. Or you can use some kind of IM, or even this thread -- I mean, playing the actual board game, we'd theoretically all be sitting at the same table, so it's not like we need to expect a ton of privacy. We can all start trading now, but I believe that no trading has occured. You'll get an email when two other people make a trade, unless you've left the market, by selecting Done in the upper right corner. Leaving the market is not final -- you can get back in if you want, but once everyone has left, trading is done. This phase usually takes a long time because of the back-and-forth involved between people.

[britrock88]

Yeah, hitting "done" leaves the market, so you typically want to hold off on that until you've made all the deals you want to. You can always "reset done" and jump back in, though.

And the public messages (hit enter or the "save MSG setting" button once you do) are very helpful in coordinating trades.

[CrimsonFox]

oh yeah. What do you do with these cards once you get a "set"? Does it automatically kick in? Do you "spend them" on stuff?

[Passacaglia]

It doesn't automatically kick in, since a set can be as big as you want it to be. Yes, after trading and calamities you can spend your cards, or keep them (up to 8 cards) for the next round.

[CrimsonFox]

wow if we have mopre than 8 cards we lose them?

[Passacaglia]

Yep. So you've got 10 cards. You've got to decide to either spend some and buy an advance, or discard your two worst. Remember that you'll discard any calamities you have, too. But, with 10, if you've got a hides and an ochre, it might be worth losing those, so that you can keep your set of 3 or so, knowing that it in another round you can make it 5 or 6 with some trades.

It's also important (IMO) to look at the AST at this time. You're in the Early Bronze Age now, but in two rounds, you're going to be able to move into the Late Bronze Age, and to do that, you will need three different colors of civ cards. FTR, the cheapest way to do that is by buying Mysticism, which is considered both black and blue, and costs $50, plus either Pottery or Cloth Making, which are orange and cost $45. Those are the two cheapest civ cards, and Mysticism is especially nice since it's so cheap, and two different colors.

[Passacaglia]

Autumn, did you reject my trade offer? I don't see an email about it, but it doesn't look like it's there any more.

Anyway, I'm not sure what kind of public message to make. I've got two Wine and one of everything else, but britrock is collecting Wine. Looking for good deals then, but not sure what other people want to do.

[Autumn]

I don't remember anymore, Pass. I've been working straight out on some school work and don't know what I'm doing anymore. Make an offer again and I'll look at it.

[britrock88]

I just shot an offer your way, Autumn.

CF -- what's your trading outlook?

[Autumn]

Unless CF or Pass has something I want, looks like I'm done trading. Check it out guys.

[Passacaglia]

Autumn, I've got Timber and Grain. I made you an offer.

[Passacaglia]

I'll post more proper updates later, but furrball is the only one in the market, so I think we're just done trading. Furrball, let's end this thing.

[CrimsonFox]

Oh is that why I can't do anything? It goes to the page for advances.
It shows money from cards but also says I have 0 dollars. I'm not sure how to change cards into cash. Are we just not at that point yet?

edit

okay i see i can look at potential purchases and then Add to Cart.

But here's an issue. It lists my "hand value".
That's like all the cards.
I don't want to spend ALL the cards, just my one set. I see nothing to say "spend this set and don't spend others".

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Oh is that why I can't do anything? It goes to the page for advances.
It shows money from cards but also says I have 0 dollars. I'm not sure how to change cards into cash. Are we just not at that point yet?

That's not why -- furrball has since left the market, and we resolved the only calamity we had, which was Treachery.

We're at the point where you should be able to buy advances. I think it should automatically take you to the advance purchase page. If not, click on 'advances' at the top. The page should have all the advances on the left, and near the bottom of the middle, it should say:

Unspent cash: $XX Cash from Trade Cards: $XX Treasury: $8

Are you saying some of those say 0? You should be able to click on an advance (or multiple advances) and add it to the shopping cart at this stage, then you pay for it with cards and treasury on the next page, after you click Done.

[Passacaglia]

Just saw the EDIT. On the first page, all you're doing is choosing the advances you want. You decide how to pay for it on the next page.

[Passacaglia]

Back in half an hour if you need more help.

[CrimsonFox]

hmmmm does it givechange i wonder. Got to the "spend cards" phase.

[CrimsonFox]

okay i think i did something and it's telling me nothing to do. So I bought something yay. Can't really see if i got change for my purchase.

will eventually i guess

[Passacaglia]

You do not get change.

[CrimsonFox]

what's with the population explosion?
what do i do?
manually increase my countries now?

[Passacaglia]

Exactly. You would normally increase 15 tokens, since your population is 17, and everything can double except for the 3rd tokens in Aquitania and Narbo. But, if you click on AST, you'll see that you only have 12 tokens in your surplus. So you have to choose which 12 of the 15 actually get to expand.

[Autumn]

CF, post your trade wants! Or nobody can ever trade with you!!

[Autumn]

I think I'm waiting on a request to you Pass and then we could close up this sorry excuse for a trade round.

[Passacaglia]

Sorry about the delay.

[CrimsonFox]

I love how the game dicks me with cards like this and then sends me an email nagging me with "Hey! YOu have to remove cities and population now! Come on! Hurry up and lose! YOu're holding up the game!"

[Passacaglia]

Yes, you did get pretty screwed there. But the good news is that since you can't have more than two calamities, Superstition got thrown out. And Slave Revolt did nothing to you. So really it was just the Volcano. Kind of a jerk move for the guy who got Epidemic to hit you with it IMO, since you already suffered a calamity, but it's only 2 points, and you're one of the few civs who has any technology, and you guys are neighbors, even if naval.

But also, there's no deadline in the game, so take all the time you need, even if you get emails.

[CrimsonFox]

I'm surprised it wasn't Autumn

[Autumn]

Hey! I helped you out here.

[CrimsonFox]

JUST kidding

[CrimsonFox]

did i mention how much i hate that website?

I think I just lost a lot of money for buying things.

[britrock88]

Bump?

[britrock88]

Just received 4 calamities (Civil War {NT}, Flood {NT}, Epidemic, and Iconoclasm/Heresy) in the Collect Trade Cards phase of a different game. Craziness.

[Autumn]

Waiting on Pass in a trade in the first game, on him to purchase cards in this one.

[CrimsonFox]

How about we just say everybody wins...

[britrock88]

Waiting on Tarc in both games. Maybe I'm overly optimistic about our chances to finish, though...

[Autumn]

I was going to bump this but then realized that the one we're waiting on is CF. D'oh!

[britrock88]

But CF's out of the box!

[britrock88]

...Pass?