Sound the Steam Summer Sale Alert!

SirFozzie · 06-19-2014, 10:54 AM

Starting in about an hour from when I post this, the 2014 steam summer sale is back... to either give us great deals and encourage us to try games which we've heard about but don't want to pay full price (charitable view) or to suck our wallets dry as we add more games to an ever growing backlog that we will never EVER clear (addict's view)

NobodyHere · 06-19-2014, 11:07 AM

I might finally pick up Shadowrun, but I think my wallet is safe otherwise.

I still have plenty of backlog from the Xmas Steam Sale.

Critch · 06-19-2014, 01:12 PM

Well batch one is pretty underwhelming. No risk to my wallet at all.

mckerney · 06-19-2014, 01:18 PM

Round 1 is mostly games I've already played, so nothing for me so far.

The Witcher 2 at $3.99 and Hotline Miami for $1.49 are both steals. Don't Starve, FarCry 3 + Blood Dragon, Mirror's Edge and the XCOM reboot are all really good as well.

Izulde · 06-19-2014, 01:36 PM

Democracy 3 I'm half-tempted on. Starved for a good political sim, but I remember Democracy 1 being quite boring after a couple playthroughs, and I've heard 2 and 3 do very little to expand on the core mechanic.

bhlloy · 06-19-2014, 01:52 PM

Democracy 3 was very fun for 30 minutes until you figure out how the core game mechanic works and then I got a 90% approval rating and haven't touched it since. Would stay away

chinaski · 06-19-2014, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Democracy 3 was very fun for 30 minutes until you figure out how the core game mechanic works and then I got a 90% approval rating and haven't touched it since. Would stay away

+1.

Izulde · 06-19-2014, 01:55 PM

Thanks. That was my gut feeling.

korme · 06-19-2014, 02:29 PM

Impressions on The Witcher? How does it compare to something like Skyrim, if at all?

And would controls be terrible on a laptop?

Vince, Pt. II · 06-19-2014, 02:46 PM

The Witcher 2 is fantastic, in my top 25 for games I've ever played. Not nearly as open world as Skyrim, but there's room for a little variation. Controls would be awful unless you had a mouse.

chinaski · 06-19-2014, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

The Witcher 2 is fantastic, in my top 25 for games I've ever played. Not nearly as open world as Skyrim, but there's room for a little variation. Controls would be awful unless you had a mouse.

Just bought it, been wanting to try this out for a long time. Any essential tips for me?

Vince, Pt. II · 06-19-2014, 06:21 PM

You're probably going to suck at combat for a little while. It gets better.

Also, the first main boss has a little bit of a glitch in the boss fight - if you die repeatedly and you really don't think you should be dying, probably worth looking up the glitch. It doesn't affect every system, so don't bother looking it up unless you're stuck.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 06-19-2014, 06:44 PM

Is the Sins of a Solar Empire series any good? Didn't know how that compared to something like Civ or if they're even remotely similar.

frnk55 · 06-19-2014, 06:54 PM

I gotta grab Divinity. It's only 20% off at 31.99 but I can't see it going any lower for awhile.

Vince, Pt. II · 06-19-2014, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Is the Sins of a Solar Empire series any good? Didn't know how that compared to something like Civ or if they're even remotely similar.

My roommate (and several friends) swear by it, I couldn't quite get into it. I've been meaning to give it more of a shot, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

NobodyHere · 06-19-2014, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Is the Sins of a Solar Empire series any good? Didn't know how that compared to something like Civ or if they're even remotely similar.

I've got 32+ hours on Rebellion so I think it's worth whatever it's on sale for.

chinaski · 06-19-2014, 08:04 PM

New flash sale:
Anon 2070 - 17.99
Castlevania 2 - 53.99
HL2 - 4.99
NARUTO SHIPPUDEN: Ultimate Ninja STORM 3 Full Burst - 19.99

Big ole MEH. How is HL2 not free yet?

TroyF · 06-19-2014, 09:52 PM

Had my first "what the hell" moment. Always heard good things about Hotline: Miami. Figured at $1.49 I wasn't really losing anything. (except $1.49, I know) Will give it a whirl tonight.

Neuqua · 06-19-2014, 10:16 PM

Similar to TroyF, I went ahead and purchased Witcher 2. I'm not at all a big PC (or in my case Mac) gamer, but watched a couple reviews online and it looks like something that I should get value out of at that price.

SnowMan · 06-20-2014, 08:09 AM

Can someone share if Monaco is any good for a single player experience?

Fidatelo · 06-20-2014, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowMan

Can someone share if Monaco is any good for a single player experience?

I picked it up during the Christmas Sale and didn't get much out of it playing by myself. It wasn't bad, but it didn't grab me.

JonInMiddleGA · 06-20-2014, 09:39 AM

Thoughts about Don't Starve?

PilotMan · 06-20-2014, 10:39 AM

I've played it a few times and I'm not very good at it. It's a casual, survival, rouge-like game where death is dealt frequently. A game you can pick up and put down fairly easy. I know it's a lot deeper then I've gotten with it.

You walk around collecting things in real time, craft things, survive the night, eat, your stuff wears out. Just as it says, in the end, don't starve.

Critch · 06-20-2014, 10:46 AM

Went for Lucius for $4.99. Kind of like the Hitman series only in the roll of a 6 year old son of Satan bumping off staff in unfortunate "accidents" instead of a contract assassin. Not bad, looks nice, but very linear. There's only one way of doing each mission, not open to different strategies like Hitman is.

Not bad for $4.99 though.

mckerney · 06-20-2014, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

The Witcher 2 is fantastic, in my top 25 for games I've ever played. Not nearly as open world as Skyrim, but there's room for a little variation. Controls would be awful unless you had a mouse.

Agreed, it's not that similar to Skyrim but it's a much better RPG and one I'd put in my top 25 too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowMan

Can someone share if Monaco is any good for a single player experience?

The co-op is great but it's not nearly as much fun single player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I've played it a few times and I'm not very good at it. It's a casual, survival, rouge-like game where death is dealt frequently. A game you can pick up and put down fairly easy. I know it's a lot deeper then I've gotten with it.

You walk around collecting things in real time, craft things, survive the night, eat, your stuff wears out. Just as it says, in the end, don't starve.

Same boat for me, I haven't got that far into it yet but I think it's pretty good. It's my second favorite of the Minecraft style exploration/resource collecting/crafting genre games after Terraria.

JonInMiddleGA · 06-20-2014, 12:04 PM

Don't Starve (twin pack w/ DLC version) becomes the first SSS purchase of the year for me.

Naturally I've discovered that my ancient desktop can't handle the graphics, son is playing on his laptop with the gift copy.

So far I've heard the phrase "oh fuck I'm gonna die" at least twice in the last 20 minutes or so

mckerney · 06-20-2014, 12:22 PM

Don't really see anything I'd recommend today other than Telltale's The Walking Dead and Call of Juarez: Gunslinger from the flash deal.

I didn't really like State of Decay, Game Dev Tycoon is kinda interesting to play because of the concept but I don't think it's actually a good game, and Bound by Flame came out to terrible reviews a couple months ago. Dynasty Warriors 8 is one I'm interested in getting but not at the current sale price.

Radii · 06-20-2014, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckerney

Telltale's The Walking Dead

Where does walking dead stand as far as "season 2" episodes? Are there more to come or is this season done? My plan has been to wait for the next steam sale after the final episode is released this time around.

mckerney · 06-20-2014, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii

Where does walking dead stand as far as "season 2" episodes? Are there more to come or is this season done? My plan has been to wait for the next steam sale after the final episode is released this time around.

Episode 3 came out last month so there are two more episodes to go before Season 2 is finished.

Izulde · 06-20-2014, 02:12 PM

Is it just me or has it been a real meh SSS so far?

Critch · 06-20-2014, 02:20 PM

The daily sale items have been really meh, but looking through my wishlist there seems to be a lot for 50% to 75% off.

Coffee Warlord · 06-20-2014, 02:26 PM

Pulled the trigger on Game Dev Tycoon, based off a coworkers recommendation.

Peregrine · 06-20-2014, 02:26 PM

Yeah I have had a lot of fun with Game Dev Tycoon - good choice on sale.

Matthean · 06-20-2014, 02:26 PM

The problem with them being 50% off on my wishlist is I'm wanting them to go to 75% off.

Sacred Gold 2 and the new Shadowrun are two prime examples.

NobodyHere · 06-20-2014, 02:32 PM

Ok, everyone needs to vote for shadowrun being the next flash sale.

Please?

mckerney · 06-20-2014, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthean

The problem with them being 50% off on my wishlist is I'm wanting them to go to 75% off.

Sacred Gold 2 and the new Shadowrun are two prime examples.

I think Shadowrun is in the current voting at $3.75, though if it doesn't win there's still a good chance it comes up at that price at some point.

Scoobz0202 · 06-20-2014, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izulde

Is it just me or has it been a real meh SSS so far?

Meh. It's day two. The things that have given me pause, though, are seeing games with 15-20% off as a daily deal (Dayz and an RPG yesterday). I'm also not sure how i feel about early access games being daily deals, but it's day 2. We shall see.

Bobble · 06-20-2014, 03:27 PM

I heard Purple Team kicks puppies. Just sayin'.

SackAttack · 06-20-2014, 03:41 PM

Sound the Steam Summer Sale Siren would have been so much more alliterative.

mckerney · 06-20-2014, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izulde

Is it just me or has it been a real meh SSS so far?

I don't know, I think there have been some great deals so far it's just all on games I've bought on previous Steam sales and already played.

Matthean · 06-20-2014, 04:10 PM

Kind of like Barnes and Nobles current 50% sale that has Mage Knight and Summoner Wars: Master set on sale. The good news is they are my two favorite games. The bad news is I own them.

mckerney · 06-20-2014, 04:28 PM

Yeah, I think every Steam sale is worse than the last because of all the games you've purchased during the previous ones.

Plus they're not as amazing as the first few because now there's always some big deals going on between Amazon, Green Man Gaming, GameFly, GOG and various bundles. The deals are just as good price wise, it's just now the same deal has come up 3 or 4 times in the last 6 months.

NobodyHere · 06-20-2014, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Ok, everyone needs to vote for shadowrun being the next flash sale.

Please?

Yay, Shadowrun won!

Thanks Obama!

Matthean · 06-20-2014, 09:34 PM

I voted for that package as well although I saw The Bridge was in the other one for 85% and kind of felt bad I couldn't vote for both.

TroyF · 06-20-2014, 09:49 PM

I'm really wanting the Skyrim DLC packs to drop down to 50% off or more. They are at 13 bucks each and if it's the second to last day of the sale I'll bite, but I'm hoping for more.

Also wanting Wolfenstein to go on sale. Not 60% off or anything as it just came out. But 5 or 10 bucks off would be something. Firing up Hotline Miami now

DaddyTorgo · 06-20-2014, 09:51 PM

I picked up a new laptop with a newer video card. I should fire up Skyrim again...

Matthean · 06-20-2014, 09:53 PM

Shadowrun Returns: Dragonfall is also 60% off as part of the community sale.

chinaski · 06-20-2014, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

I'm really wanting the Skyrim DLC packs to drop down to 50% off or more. They are at 13 bucks each and if it's the second to last day of the sale I'll bite, but I'm hoping for more.

Also wanting Wolfenstein to go on sale. Not 60% off or anything as it just came out. But 5 or 10 bucks off would be something. Firing up Hotline Miami now

Wolfenstein was the most fun ive had with a game since the newest Tombraider. Very well done.

Fidatelo · 06-20-2014, 10:26 PM

I have a bunch of games on my wish list that need to hit $9.99 to pull the trigger:

Banner Saga
Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes
Endless Legend
Crusader Kings II
Total War: Shogun 2
Frozen Endzone

And I have 2 that need to hit $19.99 or under:

Age of Wonders 3
South Park: The Stick of Truth

I suspect most of those will be misses until the Christmas sale, but I'm guessing one or two of the ones from the 9.99 group will pop this month.

B & B · 06-20-2014, 10:43 PM

they just popped south park at $40.

I gave serious consideration but after reading the mostly positive reviews, its a quick 14-18 hour play thru with minimal replay. Someone blew thru it on a 10 hour day.

Im with you at the $20 price on it. But we wont be there this summer.

Xmas at best

06-19-2014, 11:07 AM	#2
NobodyHere Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2013	I might finally pick up Shadowrun, but I think my wallet is safe otherwise. I still have plenty of backlog from the Xmas Steam Sale. __________________ I tried, it worked!

06-19-2014, 01:36 PM	#5
Izulde Head Coach Join Date: Sep 2004	Democracy 3 I'm half-tempted on. Starved for a good political sim, but I remember Democracy 1 being quite boring after a couple playthroughs, and I've heard 2 and 3 do very little to expand on the core mechanic. __________________ 2006 Golden Scribe Nominee 2006 Golden Scribe Winner Best Non-Sport Dynasty: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty) Rookie Writer of the Year Dynasty of the Year: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty)

06-19-2014, 01:55 PM	#8
Izulde Head Coach Join Date: Sep 2004	Thanks. That was my gut feeling. __________________ 2006 Golden Scribe Nominee 2006 Golden Scribe Winner Best Non-Sport Dynasty: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty) Rookie Writer of the Year Dynasty of the Year: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty)

06-19-2014, 02:46 PM	#10
Vince, Pt. II Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Somewhere More Familiar	The Witcher 2 is fantastic, in my top 25 for games I've ever played. Not nearly as open world as Skyrim, but there's room for a little variation. Controls would be awful unless you had a mouse. Last edited by Vince, Pt. II : 06-19-2014 at 02:47 PM.

06-19-2014, 08:04 PM	#17
chinaski College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon	New flash sale: Anon 2070 - 17.99 Castlevania 2 - 53.99 HL2 - 4.99 NARUTO SHIPPUDEN: Ultimate Ninja STORM 3 Full Burst - 19.99 Big ole MEH. How is HL2 not free yet? __________________ CCFL - Buffalo Bills IHOF - Houston Mustangs GML - San Diego

06-19-2014, 01:12 PM	#3
Critch lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Herndon, VA	Well batch one is pretty underwhelming. No risk to my wallet at all.

06-19-2014, 01:18 PM	#4
mckerney Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Round 1 is mostly games I've already played, so nothing for me so far. The Witcher 2 at $3.99 and Hotline Miami for $1.49 are both steals. Don't Starve, FarCry 3 + Blood Dragon, Mirror's Edge and the XCOM reboot are all really good as well.

06-19-2014, 01:52 PM	#6
bhlloy Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003	Democracy 3 was very fun for 30 minutes until you figure out how the core game mechanic works and then I got a 90% approval rating and haven't touched it since. Would stay away

06-19-2014, 02:29 PM	#9
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	Impressions on The Witcher? How does it compare to something like Skyrim, if at all? And would controls be terrible on a laptop?

06-19-2014, 06:21 PM	#12
Vince, Pt. II Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Somewhere More Familiar	You're probably going to suck at combat for a little while. It gets better. Also, the first main boss has a little bit of a glitch in the boss fight - if you die repeatedly and you really don't think you should be dying, probably worth looking up the glitch. It doesn't affect every system, so don't bother looking it up unless you're stuck.

06-19-2014, 06:44 PM	#13
Mizzou B-ball fan General Manager Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kansas City, MO	Is the Sins of a Solar Empire series any good? Didn't know how that compared to something like Civ or if they're even remotely similar.

06-19-2014, 06:54 PM	#14
frnk55 High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2006	I gotta grab Divinity. It's only 20% off at 31.99 but I can't see it going any lower for awhile.

06-19-2014, 09:52 PM	#18
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Had my first "what the hell" moment. Always heard good things about Hotline: Miami. Figured at $1.49 I wasn't really losing anything. (except $1.49, I know) Will give it a whirl tonight.

06-19-2014, 10:16 PM	#19
Neuqua Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago, Ill	Similar to TroyF, I went ahead and purchased Witcher 2. I'm not at all a big PC (or in my case Mac) gamer, but watched a couple reviews online and it looks like something that I should get value out of at that price. __________________ Our Deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?

06-20-2014, 08:09 AM	#20
SnowMan High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Georgia via Alaska via Washington	Can someone share if Monaco is any good for a single player experience?

06-20-2014, 09:39 AM	#22
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Thoughts about Don't Starve? __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

06-20-2014, 10:39 AM	#23
PilotMan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Seven miles up	I've played it a few times and I'm not very good at it. It's a casual, survival, rouge-like game where death is dealt frequently. A game you can pick up and put down fairly easy. I know it's a lot deeper then I've gotten with it. You walk around collecting things in real time, craft things, survive the night, eat, your stuff wears out. Just as it says, in the end, don't starve. __________________ He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops.

06-20-2014, 10:46 AM	#24
Critch lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Herndon, VA	Went for Lucius for $4.99. Kind of like the Hitman series only in the roll of a 6 year old son of Satan bumping off staff in unfortunate "accidents" instead of a contract assassin. Not bad, looks nice, but very linear. There's only one way of doing each mission, not open to different strategies like Hitman is. Not bad for $4.99 though.

06-20-2014, 12:04 PM	#26
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Don't Starve (twin pack w/ DLC version) becomes the first SSS purchase of the year for me. Naturally I've discovered that my ancient desktop can't handle the graphics, son is playing on his laptop with the gift copy. So far I've heard the phrase "oh fuck I'm gonna die" at least twice in the last 20 minutes or so __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

06-20-2014, 12:22 PM	#27
mckerney Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Don't really see anything I'd recommend today other than Telltale's The Walking Dead and Call of Juarez: Gunslinger from the flash deal. I didn't really like State of Decay, Game Dev Tycoon is kinda interesting to play because of the concept but I don't think it's actually a good game, and Bound by Flame came out to terrible reviews a couple months ago. Dynasty Warriors 8 is one I'm interested in getting but not at the current sale price.

06-20-2014, 02:12 PM	#30
Izulde Head Coach Join Date: Sep 2004	Is it just me or has it been a real meh SSS so far? __________________ 2006 Golden Scribe Nominee 2006 Golden Scribe Winner Best Non-Sport Dynasty: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty) Rookie Writer of the Year Dynasty of the Year: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty)

06-20-2014, 02:20 PM	#31
Critch lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Herndon, VA	The daily sale items have been really meh, but looking through my wishlist there seems to be a lot for 50% to 75% off.

06-20-2014, 02:26 PM	#32
Coffee Warlord Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Colorado Springs	Pulled the trigger on Game Dev Tycoon, based off a coworkers recommendation.

06-20-2014, 02:26 PM	#33
Peregrine Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cary, NC	Yeah I have had a lot of fun with Game Dev Tycoon - good choice on sale.

06-20-2014, 02:26 PM	#34
Matthean Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Aug 2008	The problem with them being 50% off on my wishlist is I'm wanting them to go to 75% off. Sacred Gold 2 and the new Shadowrun are two prime examples. __________________ Board games: Bringing people back to the original social network, the table.

06-20-2014, 02:32 PM	#35
NobodyHere Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2013	Ok, everyone needs to vote for shadowrun being the next flash sale. Please? __________________ I tried, it worked!

06-20-2014, 03:27 PM	#38
Bobble College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: High and outside	I heard Purple Team kicks puppies. Just sayin'.

06-20-2014, 03:41 PM	#39
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	Sound the Steam Summer Sale Siren would have been so much more alliterative.

06-20-2014, 04:10 PM	#41
Matthean Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Aug 2008	Kind of like Barnes and Nobles current 50% sale that has Mage Knight and Summoner Wars: Master set on sale. The good news is they are my two favorite games. The bad news is I own them. __________________ Board games: Bringing people back to the original social network, the table.

06-20-2014, 04:28 PM	#42
mckerney Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Yeah, I think every Steam sale is worse than the last because of all the games you've purchased during the previous ones. Plus they're not as amazing as the first few because now there's always some big deals going on between Amazon, Green Man Gaming, GameFly, GOG and various bundles. The deals are just as good price wise, it's just now the same deal has come up 3 or 4 times in the last 6 months. Last edited by mckerney : 06-20-2014 at 04:28 PM.

06-20-2014, 09:34 PM	#44
Matthean Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Aug 2008	I voted for that package as well although I saw The Bridge was in the other one for 85% and kind of felt bad I couldn't vote for both. __________________ Board games: Bringing people back to the original social network, the table.

06-20-2014, 09:49 PM	#45
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I'm really wanting the Skyrim DLC packs to drop down to 50% off or more. They are at 13 bucks each and if it's the second to last day of the sale I'll bite, but I'm hoping for more. Also wanting Wolfenstein to go on sale. Not 60% off or anything as it just came out. But 5 or 10 bucks off would be something. Firing up Hotline Miami now

06-20-2014, 09:51 PM	#46
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	I picked up a new laptop with a newer video card. I should fire up Skyrim again...

06-20-2014, 09:53 PM	#47
Matthean Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Aug 2008	Shadowrun Returns: Dragonfall is also 60% off as part of the community sale. __________________ Board games: Bringing people back to the original social network, the table.

06-20-2014, 10:26 PM	#49
Fidatelo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Winnipeg, MB	I have a bunch of games on my wish list that need to hit $9.99 to pull the trigger: Banner Saga Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes Endless Legend Crusader Kings II Total War: Shogun 2 Frozen Endzone And I have 2 that need to hit $19.99 or under: Age of Wonders 3 South Park: The Stick of Truth I suspect most of those will be misses until the Christmas sale, but I'm guessing one or two of the ones from the 9.99 group will pop this month. __________________ "Breakfast? Breakfast schmekfast, look at the score for God's sake. It's only the second period and I'm winning 12-2. Breakfasts come and go, Rene, but Hartford, the Whale, they only beat Vancouver maybe once or twice in a lifetime."