Marriage advice

[RelationshipIssues]

The people here have always seemed to be good with this sort of stuff - so here gos:

Some years ago my wife cheated on me. I forgave her and we worked forward from there, our marriage hasn't been more friendship since, but things generally weren't bad.

Fast forward to two weeks ago - she goes out to visit a new female friend (who I'd never heard much of before) in hospital in the evening and doesn't come back until the early hours of the morning (2am+), this repeats daily (with two exceptions where shes home but constantly on the phone or texting this lady) for two weeks with some times she's in around midnight and twice she doesn't come back until 10am the next morning.

Most of these times she says she is visiting the lady in hospital, however about a quarter of the time she says they're not in hospital 'just hanging out'. After a couple of days I had it out with her that I wanted to know what was going on and if she was visiting the lady and not coming home at a decent time than to text me and let me know so I didn't wait up (she never did - although she claims thats because she didn't know when she'd be coming home/her friend discharged from hospital).

She has put the woman briefly on the phone to me to say "Hi" a couple of times and sent me a photo of her in hospital once. The issues which her friend have are heart related apparently and she has to go into hospital each morning to be monitored and is waiting for surgery.

However the length of time this is going on concerned me as it didn't ring true to me, I checked her texts and found texts which confirm the woman probably does have health issues but also mildly sexually explicit texts back and forth between them (about how nice parts of their body are, kissing and suchlike).

The first time I saw something I didn't mention it to her and when I checked later on that entire thread had been deleted, the next evening I checked again and saw more of the same - then later on I checked and found the thread had been sanitized (i.e. the sexual stuff removed).

I confronted my wife about this and she's denied anything has been happening and indicated that they're just being silly - are my concerns valid, do 30+ year old women really do this sort of thing ... or am I over-reacting and should have gotten over her cheating ten years ago as my wife is claiming.

[Kodos]

Sounds like she is cheating to me. Friends don't have sexual texts like that.

[Ben E Lou]

Deleted a couple of posts. FWIW to others reading, there's reason to believe that this is a real post.

Yes, I think the concerns are valid. I wish I had great advice, but the only thing that comes to mind is that because the trust has been broken, the onus is on her to assuage your suspicions. And even if they're just "being silly," she needs to understand that the behavior is especially inappropriate given the history.

[Matthean]

Why don't you go with your wife to see this new friend?

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Deleted a couple of posts. FWIW to others reading, there's reason to believe that this is a real post.

I stand by my posts either way.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Why don't you go with your wife to see this new friend?

I've heard worse ideas.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RelationshipIssues

are my concerns valid, do 30+ year old women really do this sort of thing

Yes. And yes.

I've seen at least 3 divorces in the past 5 years over scenarios that wouldn't have been all that much different if you described them at this stage.

[Suicane75]

But, if I'm putting on my serious hat, sounds to me like you already know what's probably happening. Now it's time to do something about it.

[Kodos]

Honestly, with her prior history of cheating -- I'd be finding a divorce lawyer. You deserve something better than this.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I've seen at least 3 divorces in the past 5 years over scenarios that wouldn't have been all that much different if you described them at this stage.

I'm actually surprised there aren't more of these, as I'm increasingly thinking that more women like women just as much if not more than they like men, they just haven't disclosed it or won't admit it to themselves yet.

ETA: more than we generally believe, that is.

[RainMaker]

I think you know what is really going on. I'd start looking for a divorce attorney and move on. No use torturing yourself trying to find evidence and so on. I think there are a few guys here who have gotten divorced and gotten back on the horse and are having a great time with life.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Honestly, with her prior history of cheating -- I'd be finding a divorce lawyer. You deserve something better than this.

Plus one. This has all kinds of red flags to me.

[molson]

Even without the cheating history, I think it's bad form for a wife or husband to stay out until after 2AM on many consecutive nights when the spouse doesn't even know who this person is they're visiting.

She's hiding something. You're not over-reacting. I'd be looking for the red-handed proof at this point.

[jeff061]

Previous cheating, staying out every single night, Texting and calls all day, deleting text messages so you won't suspect anything.


I don't know your personal situation and how a divorce may impact it, but yeah.....

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by molson

Even without the cheating history, I think it's bad form for a wife or husband to stay out until after 2AM on many consecutive nights when the spouse doesn't even know who this person is they're visiting.

She's hiding something. You're not over-reacting. I'd be looking for the red-handed proof at this point.

Deleting texts as far as I'm concerned is red handed proof. And telling you that you need to get over the time she fucked someone else... I don't even know how I'd react to that one.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Yes, I think the concerns are valid. I wish I had great advice, but the only thing that comes to mind is that because the trust has been broken, the onus is on her to assuage your suspicions. And even if they're just "being silly," she needs to understand that the behavior is especially inappropriate given the history.

Yep - I agree 100% with Ben here.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Deleting texts as far as I'm concerned is red handed proof. And telling you that you need to get over the time she fucked someone else... I don't even know how I'd react to that one.

If this ever happens to me my "getting over it" will commence as the door hits her in the ass on the way out as soon as I discover it. Like full on "clothes on the lawn" type scenario.

That being said - sorry RI (although this is clearly a throwaway account by a regular I assume).

[Dr. Sak]

I think you know deep down what the answers to your questions are, but you are afraid to admit it to yourself.

I say that being removed from you situation, but going through a similar one with a significant other who exerted this behavior. Everyone of my friends gave me advice I refused to take and admit. We broke up...the dust settled...and that new "friend" became her spouse.

If it looks like a duck and smells like a duck...

[Izulde]

As someone who was once the other man to a lesbian relationship (long story there and in my defense, when I was that young age, I didn't take same-sex relationships with any seriousness), I would put money on her cheating on you with this woman.

Agree with those who say get a lawyer, go through divorce, all that.

[Blackadar]

Here's what you do...

Get the divorce papers drawn up during the day. That night, when she leaves to go see her new "friend", throw her shit out in the yard and have a locksmith come and change the locks before she gets home.

Seriously, is that original post real? Is there any question what's happening here?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Here's what you do...

Get the divorce papers drawn up during the day. That night, when she leaves to go see her new "friend", throw her shit out in the yard and have a locksmith come and change the locks before she gets home.

Seriously, is that original post real? Is there any question what's happening here?

"The DT"

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

"The DT"

Yeah, but don't forget to change the locks. Otherwise the stuff on the lawn thing doesn't work too well.

Oh, and get full bank account statements the day you do this. Save them in a lockbox. Withdraw exactly 50% of the funds and put them in your own account. with proof that you took exactly 50%.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Yeah, but don't forget to change the locks. Otherwise the stuff on the lawn thing doesn't work too well.

Oh, and get full bank account statements the day you do this. Save them in a lockbox. Withdraw exactly 50% of the funds and put them in your own account. with proof that you took exactly 50%.

This is all necessary too, and a good point.

[digamma]

I'm not even sure you have to get to the cheating. Going out every night for two weeks and not coming back until the wee hours of the morning is a pretty big red flag.

That said, take your time in figuring out what to do and that may include counseling, therapy, and/or legal advice. No one wins a race to the court house.

[Lathum]

Agree with everyone else, seems like she is at the very least emotionally cheating.

I have a friend whose wife left him out of the blue with 2 kids after 10+ years of marriage for another woman.

Regardless of the other woman, the staying out all night is being a crappy partner, something I know my wife would never do.

It is obvious she is hiding something.

As for the deleted posts, I didn't see them, but if this is a regular poster who wishes to remain anonymous, so be it, no one should have any issues with that.

[RelationshipIssues]

Originally Posted by Subby

If you are nothing more than friends, who gives a shit? You are already living in a sham marriage, what's the difference? Keep being friends.

Firstly thanks to people for giving the thread the benefit of the doubt - its real, unfortunately.

To answer a few questions the situation is confused by the fact we have kids and it was a decade ago she cheated on me (which is why she says I should trust her now - its been a considerable amount of time) and we've been married around 20 years.

I grew up as a product of multiple divorces and so I really don't want to put my kids through that if there is still real hope for things.

In reply to the 'sham' side of things - yes and no, we have generally had a good friendship and while passion is a real rarity these days - we're not the spring chickens we once were.

She's definitely going through a 'second childhood' at present and has been somewhat semi-obsessed with losing weight and trying to look young, I know my daughter 'flirts' with her friends online innocently enough and I'm wondering if it might be being honestly just stupidity and just mimicking her because she wants to feel young ... yes I know I'm probably being stupid, feel free to tell me that.

Other things which make me confused about the possibility she is having a same sex relationship - she is a very active christian and has often ranted about how homosexuality is a sin and complains about how many gay people are on TV etc.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by RelationshipIssues

Other things which make me confused about the possibility she is having a same sex relationship - she is a very active christian and has often ranted about how homosexuality is a sin and complains about how many gay people are on TV etc.

This is actually quite a common phenomenon. Quite a few pastors the last decade or so who have been vehemently anti-gay rights have turned out themselves to have been, if not gay, at least in homosexual relationships.

[RelationshipIssues]

Something is definitely going on - what I don't have concrete proof about - she's vehement that she's not a lesbian, wouldn't know what to do, has no interest in that kind of thing.

She showed me a text conversation between her and her friend late last night discussing me confronting her and basically saying 'ewww no' from both sides ... but then again thats something which could be 'arranged'.

[Kodos]

Some of the loudest anti-gay people turn out to be gay.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by RelationshipIssues

She's definitely going through a 'second childhood' at present and has been somewhat semi-obsessed with losing weight and trying to look young, I know my daughter 'flirts' with her friends online innocently enough and I'm wondering if it might be being honestly just stupidity and just mimicking her because she wants to feel young ... yes I know I'm probably being stupid, feel free to tell me that.

Other things which make me confused about the possibility she is having a same sex relationship - she is a very active christian and has often ranted about how homosexuality is a sin and complains about how many gay people are on TV etc.

I've seen girls call each other pretty online and stuff, but I've never really seen it get sexual - that's seems a little too odd to me.

Also, regarding her staunch anti-homosexuality, methinks she doth protest too much.

[RainMaker]

She is not staying with her friend at a hospital till 2AM every night. I wouldn't do that for my own Mother. She is lying, it's just about what.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

She is not staying with her friend at a hospital till 2AM every night. I wouldn't do that for my own Mother. She is lying, it's just about what.

There's also that angle to it.

[RelationshipIssues]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

She is not staying with her friend at a hospital till 2AM every night. I wouldn't do that for my own Mother. She is lying, it's just about what.

I know she has been there some nights as when I started getting nervous about this I checked using the location of her phone.

As I mentioned I've also seen references to the other womans fear of dying and illness in the texts, so there is some truth mixed in there - I just don't feel that its wholly truthful because of the sexual references and the deleting of texts.

Other nights they've largely been parked for hours or driving around somewhat randomly.

[corbes]

At issue is whether there is emotional committment to the marriage being the most important adult relationship in her life. If not--and staying out all night over the objection of the partner qualifies as "not"--then the basic premise of the whole thing isn't working.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by RelationshipIssues

I grew up as a product of multiple divorces and so I really don't want to put my kids through that if there is still real hope for things.

Why do you think there might still be hope for things? You have legitimate issues with trust being the major one. And that's a biggie.

[Lathum]

Even if it is something totally innocent, or light flirting or whatever ( which is unacceptable IMO) she is showing a serious lack of respect for you and your marriage, not to mention your kids. Staying out all hours, not being honest, dismissing your concerns, etc…are all very alarming and not something someone does in a marriage.

[booradley]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Even if it is something totally innocent, or light flirting or whatever ( which is unacceptable IMO) she is showing a serious lack of respect for you and your marriage, not to mention your kids. Staying out all hours, not being honest, dismissing your concerns, etc…are all very alarming and not something someone does in a marriage.

Yep.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Some of the loudest anti-gay people turn out to be gay.

One kid in high school notoriously ripped on another kid who was flamingly gay. Turns out the dude was out of the closet soon after high school.

[RelationshipIssues]

Originally Posted by corbes

At issue is whether there is emotional committment to the marriage being the most important adult relationship in her life. If not--and staying out all night over the objection of the partner qualifies as "not"--then the basic premise of the whole thing isn't working.

This is the sort of post which is why I started this thread - thank you very much, you put into words how I've been feeling far better than I could.

[SegRat]

If you care to chat pm me. My wife cheated on me.

[path12]

These threads always make me a little bit uncomfortable. Advice to a particular situation, no matter how well explained, are necessarily one-sided and we in the group who give advice are also not necessarily skilled in doing so, despite all of our intentions to be helpful.

Just two cents of advice that is also one sided, biased and just as likely to harm as help.

But I did have a marriage that ended when my wife cheated on me if that helps. It sucked but you move on and things always end up better than you think they will.

[MizzouRah]

Something is definitely not right... I think it's time you met this "friend".

There is no way in hell my wife would be allowed to keep going out and coming home in the AM saying she is staying with some friend whom I've never met.

Being someone who runs a soccer club in my town, I'm amazed at all the mom's and dad's who are out there looking for something other than what they have.

[Fonzie]

I won't presume to know enough about your situation to suggest what you should do, RI, but I will raise three general points that I think are germane to your situation. Use them as you see fit:

1) The best predictor of a person's future (or present) behavior is past behavior under similar circumstances.

2) Relationships require hard work from both parties, and should generally be mutually beneficial. If one is putting in the hard work and not benefiting (or worse, is actually suffering) from the relationship, then the rationale for remaining in such a relationship needs close examination.

3) Research shows that children of divorced parents overwhelmingly become well-adjusted adults.

You're facing a difficult situation, RI. I wish you well.

[RelationshipIssues]

Thanks for the advice - unfortunately it appears its all over with a whimper.

I tried to draw a line in the sand this evening and asked her to come home at 11pm after a church event and she has decided to go over to visit her friend instead, they face-timed me from the car (so I kind of finally met her friend 'face to face' abeit electronically) to tell me how unreasonable I was being and frankly I think thats it.

[DaddyTorgo]

She obviously doesn't value you a person if she just flaunted your totally reasonable request. Given the numerous times she's done this recently your request was completely reasonable, and especially so given her past history, so the fact that she so cavalierly ignored it just really says to me that she has no respect for you as a person.

No reason to stay with someone like that and get walked all over.

Sorry to hear man.

[Lathum]

How is that "it". Doesn't sound resolved at all and she certainly doesn't seem interested to discuss your concerns.

[Fonzie]

Damn. I'm sorry, RI.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Lathum

How is that "it". Doesn't sound resolved at all and she certainly doesn't seem interested to discuss your concerns.

I believe he meant he's done with her.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by RelationshipIssues

they face-timed me from the car (so I kind of finally met her friend 'face to face' abeit electronically) to tell me how unreasonable I was being and frankly I think thats it.

This sound so...pre-teen. If she's hell-bent on being that immature, yeah, might be best to let her and be done with it.

[terpkristin]

Girl opinion: something's up, as you surmise and as others have said.

I wish I had useful advice, but all I can say is good luck. :/

/tk