Test Career With HR-Generated Universe

Ben E Lou · 11-21-2003, 04:35 PM

2003

4000-yard QB's: 4
Yards Per Carry: 3.87
Completion Percentage: .576
Yards/Completion: 10.79
Yards/Attempt: 6.22

cdunlap · 11-21-2003, 04:42 PM

Where can I get HR's player file?

sachmo71 · 11-21-2003, 04:44 PM

What is an "HR generated universe"?

primelord · 11-21-2003, 04:47 PM

It is a career using HeavyReigns fiction player file generator to create the initial player file. It can be found in the following thread.

Fictional PLayer File Generator

Ben E Lou · 11-21-2003, 04:49 PM

2002 (32 teams):
Comp%: 0.5965
YPA: 6.72
YP compl: 11.26
YPC: 4.21

2001 (31 teams):
Comp%: 0.5897
YPA: 6.78
YP compl: 11.49
Rushes: 13665
YPC: 4.06

2000 (31 teams):
Comp%: 0.5818
YPA: 6.75
YP compl: 11.60
YPC: 4.08

1999 (31 teams):
Comp%: 0.5708
YPA: 6.76
YP compl: 11.84
YPC: 3.90

1998 (30 teams):
Comp%: 0.5660
YPA: 6.85
YP compl: 12.10
YPC: 3.99

Interesting trend that I just noticed. Yards per completion has gone down steadily the past five years, and completion percentage has gone up. More teams are throwing shorter passes.

primelord · 11-21-2003, 04:51 PM

Actually the YPA look like they took a slight drop after 1998, but seem to be pretty steady after that.

Ben E Lou · 11-21-2003, 04:52 PM

2004
Completion Percentage: .593
Yards/Completion: 11.44
Yards/Attempt: 6.79
Yards Per Carry: 3.85

Ben E Lou · 11-21-2003, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by primelord
Actually the YPA look like they took a slight drop after 1998, but seem to be pretty steady after that.

Quote:

Yards per completion has gone down steadily the past five years, and completion percentage has gone up.

Who's not reading now?

primelord · 11-21-2003, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SkyDog
Who's not reading now?

Damn it!

cdunlap · 11-21-2003, 04:56 PM

Skydog,

Can you please give me the file, I would like to do some testing.

Thanks

Ben E Lou · 11-21-2003, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cdunlap
Skydog,

Can you please give me the file, I would like to do some testing.

Thanks

Go to the sticky thread, and under "files" (or something like that), link to the thread that says something to the effect of "fictional universe generator by HeavyReign". You can download the utility and create as many files as you want.

primelord · 11-21-2003, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cdunlap
Skydog,

Can you please give me the file, I would like to do some testing.

Thanks

Why not just download HR's excellent program and create your own for testing?

primelord · 11-21-2003, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SkyDog
Go to the sticky thread, and under "files" (or something like that), link to the thread that says something to the effect of "fictional universe generator by HeavyReign". You can download the utility and create as many files as you want.

Or you can click on the link just a few posts above this.

Ben E Lou · 11-21-2003, 05:01 PM

2005
4000-yard passers: 7 (forgot to check for this in '04...sorry)
Completion Percentage: .589
Yards/Completion: 11.47
Yards/Attempt: 6.76
Yards Per Carry: 3.89

cdunlap · 11-21-2003, 05:01 PM

Not the generator, but the PLAYER FILE.

Ben E Lou · 11-21-2003, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cdunlap
Not the generator, but the PLAYER FILE.

The player file is inconsequential. It was created using the generator. What are you trying to test???

RPI-Fan · 11-21-2003, 05:03 PM

Any possible files you could want are linked in the thread at the top of the forum anyways.

Calis · 11-21-2003, 05:03 PM

Hmm, I was just looking around at this early this morning, when someone mentioned that HR's stats were more out of whack than the default.

This was my dynasty I was running anyway, I just did some searching through it.

Through 7 years we've had 71 QB's throw for over 4k yards, with one QB breaking 5k.

So I'm seeing just a hair over 10 QB's per year average.

Interesting thing I just noticed though, I only had 4 in the 2003 season as well.

I'll have to dig into this some more.

RPI-Fan · 11-21-2003, 05:05 PM

This is pretty much the same as in all careers - the numbers are alright the first year or two, and then blow up.

I studied this already with HR's file, before SD told me he was taking care of it several days ago.

cdunlap · 11-21-2003, 05:09 PM

SkyDog,

All Iwould like to do, is get the file (Player file), load it in the game and see what results I get.

Thats all.

Ben E Lou · 11-21-2003, 05:10 PM

2006
4000-yard passers: 6
Completion Percentage: .600
Yards/Completion: 11.30
Yards/Attempt: 6.78
Yards Per Carry: 3.83

HeavyReign · 11-21-2003, 05:14 PM

I really wish we could export the league back to the csv format after a certain number of years. Then it would be really easy to determine if the talent levels in the league are changing over time.

Note for Skydog: Not sure if you saw the note of not but the FBB website should be working for most people by now. Feel free to take the note out of the sticky thread.

TroyF · 11-21-2003, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HeavyReign
I really wish we could export the league back to the csv format after a certain number of years. Then it would be really easy to determine if the talent levels in the league are changing over time.

Note for Skydog: Not sure if you saw the note of not but the FBB website should be working for most people by now. Feel free to take the note out of the sticky thread.

Agreed.

TroyF

Samdari · 11-21-2003, 05:19 PM

Actually, HR, I am wondering if that would be so easy. It looks to me like, in in the player files used to generate a career, the 1-9 levels are what determines a quality. Once they are generated, there are exact ratings in each 'skill'. Do we even know if a 1-9 file is stored for players at that point?

primelord · 11-21-2003, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Samdari
Actually, HR, I am wondering if that would be so easy. It looks to me like, in in the player files used to generate a career, the 1-9 levels are what determines a quality. Once they are generated, there are exact ratings in each 'skill'. Do we even know if a 1-9 file is stored for players at that point?

Once the ratings are imported into the game they are on a 100 point scale. You could extrapolate that information from the saved game files, but you would need to know the format of the file to do that. The format of the FOF4 saved game files is laying around here somewhere. It's possible the formats are very similar.

HeavyReign · 11-21-2003, 05:23 PM

True. I can see how that number wouldn't be stored at that point. Of course, I suspect it wouldn't be tough to convert back using code similar to what is used to generate the future rating in the game.

Ben E Lou · 11-21-2003, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cdunlap
SkyDog,

All Iwould like to do, is get the file (Player file), load it in the game and see what results I get.

Thats all.

Trust me. It is faster to create one from the utility than for me to find it, open my e-mail program, and send it to you.

Ben E Lou · 11-21-2003, 05:30 PM

2007
4000-yard passers: 14

Completion Percentage: .605
Yards/Completion: 11.79
Yards/Attempt: 7.14
Yards Per Carry: 3.86

It only took five seasons for passing stats to get out of whack, and rushing yardage has remained low. Gotta run for now, but back later this evening with more on this...

primelord · 11-21-2003, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SkyDog
Gotta run for now, but back later this evening with more on this...

Go Tigers!

Godzilla Blitz · 11-21-2003, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SkyDog
2007
4000-yard passers: 14
Completion Percentage: .605
Yards/Completion: 11.79
Yards/Attempt: 7.14
Yards Per Carry: 3.86

It only took five seasons for passing stats to get out of whack, and rushing yardage has remained low. Gotta run for now, but back later this evening with more on this...

Am I missing something here? Doesn't HR's utility create just the initial player file? Wouldn't the gradually increasing passing stats be created by the incoming draft files rather than the utility that created the universe in the first place, since everything seems ok when things first start out?

Daimyo · 11-21-2003, 05:45 PM

Depends... the age-talent distribution could be messed up in the initial file. That would also cause it (in that case you'd see the stats normalize about 15 years out.

primelord · 11-21-2003, 05:46 PM

Daimyo,

On an unrelated note whatevre happened to the script you were going to release?

Daimyo · 11-21-2003, 05:49 PM

I didn't think there was any need for it anymore... it's all finished though and I (and a coupel others) have been using it for careers. I'm about 20 seasons into my first career with it.

primelord · 11-21-2003, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daimyo
I didn't think there was any need for it anymore... it's all finished though and I (and a coupel others) have been using it for careers. I'm about 20 seasons into my first career with it.

I think HR's is an excellent program, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for others that do the same thing.

Daimyo · 11-21-2003, 06:02 PM

I ran a similar test with a fictitious universe created with my script and here are the results:

2003
4000yd Passers: 3
YPC: 3.8
Comp%: 573
Y/Cm: 10.8
Y/A: 6.1

2004
4000yd Passers: 5
YPC: 3.9
Comp%: 586
Y/Cm: 10.9
Y/A: 6.4

2005
4000yd Passers: 5
YPC: 3.8
Comp%: 594
Y/Cm: 10.8
Y/A: 6.4

2006
4000yd Passers: 4
YPC: 3.8
Comp%: 585
Y/Cm: 11.0
Y/A: 6.4

2007
4000yd Passers: 13 (1 - 5000)
YPC: 3.9
Comp%: 603
Y/Cm: 11.5
Y/A: 6.9

2008
4000yd Passers: 6
YPC: 3.9
Comp%: 597
Y/Cm: 11.6
Y/A: 6.9

2009
4000yd Passers: 5
YPC: 3.9
Comp%: 607
Y/Cm: 11.4
Y/A: 6.9

Interestingly enough my passing also spiked in 2007, but it drop a bit in 2008 and 2009. Looking at the 4000 yard passers in 2009 all but one of them is an 8/9 yr exp player. That sort of supports my theory that this could be caused by the initial age distribution. I know in my file I created more 2nd years than 3rds and more than 3rds than 4ths, etc.

I'm guessing what's happening is that after the first few years you've added a bunch of drafted players without too many guys retiring. While it may be true that there are more players at lower experience levels than higher it is also true I imagine that the more experience you have the higher rated you are (since the low rated guys get weeded out... all the extra young guys are guys that will get weeded out).

I didn't really think about this when I made my script, but now that I realize it, it will be very easy to fix this problem.

Daimyo · 11-21-2003, 06:03 PM

DOLA, here is the player file I used:

here

Godzilla Blitz · 11-21-2003, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daimyo
Depends... the age-talent distribution could be messed up in the initial file. That would also cause it (in that case you'd see the stats normalize about 15 years out.

Yes, that makes sense. Good point, but are the only people that are seeing inflated league passing the ones that are using HR's generator? I thought the passing problem was inherent in a lot more people's games.

In either case, I think it would be helpful to see what league passing looks like, say, 20 years into the game. That would indicated whether there is a problem with the initial database from HR's file, or whether there is a problem with the draft classes the game is generating.

Another thought is that the player files aren't causing the problems. Someone else mentioned this, but have we ruled out AI gameplans already?

RPI-Fan · 11-21-2003, 06:30 PM

Passing and rushing attempts seem on cue, so gameplans _could_ be an issue, but they probably aren't the only problem.

Pretty much every game file used thus far has caused problems.

Daimyo · 11-21-2003, 07:27 PM

This is from a different player file that the stats I posted above (this one was created with the same version of my script though), but here is the data from my most recently simmed solo league in 2022. By now I imagine all the original player I created are long gone and these are all Jim's drafted guys.

2022
4000yd Passers: 9 (1 w/ 5000)
YPC: 4.1
Comp%: 628
Y/Cm: 12.0
Y/A: 7.5

So it looks like it doesn't get much better afterall.

Godzilla Blitz · 11-21-2003, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daimyo
This is from a different player file that the stats I posted above (this one was created with the same version of my script though), but here is the data from my most recently simmed solo league in 2022. By now I imagine all the original player I created are long gone and these are all Jim's drafted guys.

2022
4000yd Passers: 9 (1 w/ 5000)
YPC: 4.1
Comp%: 628
Y/Cm: 12.0
Y/A: 7.5

So it looks like it doesn't get much better afterall.

But if the league passing gradually inches up over the course of the first ten years, then this information helps narrow the problem down. If we assume that the only thing that is different in 2022 from 2003 is that the game is filled with draft-generated players, then the draft-generation process might be the best place to look for the problem. Perhaps something in the player talent balance (weak defensive backs/linebackers or strong quarterbacks/widereceivers perhaps) is messing up the game. The other thought could be that a bug in the game is causing the AI logic that governs gameplans to get messed up.

A big next question is whether passing is high because of too much passing or because of too good passing? Is 12.0 yd/com and 7.5 yd/att high? If it's the gameplans that's causing the problems, the teams should just be passing too often and running too little, and then these numbers should be fine. If the player talent level is out of whack, then these numbers should be too high (i.e., the offenses are throwing the same amount of times, but just completing too many passes for too many yards).

I'm late to this party, though, so maybe someone has already looked at all this?

EDIT: Just saw RPI's post about attempts being on the mark. Seems to me the problem is in the draft file generation process.

Ben E Lou · 11-21-2003, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by primelord
Go Tigers!

Well, actually they play tomorrow night, which meant I had to move an event I had for my middle school kids (scheduled for Saturday night) to tonight. I'm back now though.

The Tigers begin the playoff run at 7:30pm Saturday night.

primelord · 11-21-2003, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SkyDog
Well, actually they play tomorrow night, which meant I had to move an event I had for my middle school kids (scheduled for Saturday night) to tonight. I'm back now though. The Tigers begin the playoff run at 7:30pm Saturday night.

Oh I thought for sure I read it was friday night. My bad. Go Tigers tommorow.

Ben E Lou · 11-21-2003, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by primelord
Oh I thought for sure I read it was friday night.

We've already established that you and I both have a problem with actually reading the information that is available to us.

Check the dynasty thread though. Great news tonight for Tucker, both regarding the strength of our Region, plus regarding some top teams in our bracket losing.

Daimyo · 11-21-2003, 11:03 PM

I checked out the team that passed for over 5000 yards and they also were somewhere around ~10th in runs so I think it might not be a gameplan problem. I'm wondering if its possible to actually see the ai gameplans now using multiplayer? (ie have a human take over a team from the ai and check the gameplan it starts with).

11-21-2003, 04:42 PM	#2
cdunlap n00b Join Date: Oct 2003	Player File Where can I get HR's player file?

11-21-2003, 04:49 PM	#5
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	2002 (32 teams): Comp%: 0.5965 YPA: 6.72 YP compl: 11.26 YPC: 4.21 2001 (31 teams): Comp%: 0.5897 YPA: 6.78 YP compl: 11.49 Rushes: 13665 YPC: 4.06 2000 (31 teams): Comp%: 0.5818 YPA: 6.75 YP compl: 11.60 YPC: 4.08 1999 (31 teams): Comp%: 0.5708 YPA: 6.76 YP compl: 11.84 YPC: 3.90 1998 (30 teams): Comp%: 0.5660 YPA: 6.85 YP compl: 12.10 YPC: 3.99 Interesting trend that I just noticed. Yards per completion has gone down steadily the past five years, and completion percentage has gone up. More teams are throwing shorter passes. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

11-21-2003, 04:51 PM	#6
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	Actually the YPA look like they took a slight drop after 1998, but seem to be pretty steady after that. __________________ .

11-21-2003, 04:52 PM	#7
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	2004 Completion Percentage: .593 Yards/Completion: 11.44 Yards/Attempt: 6.79 Yards Per Carry: 3.85 __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

11-21-2003, 05:01 PM	#14
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	2005 4000-yard passers: 7 (forgot to check for this in '04...sorry) Completion Percentage: .589 Yards/Completion: 11.47 Yards/Attempt: 6.76 Yards Per Carry: 3.89 __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

11-21-2003, 04:44 PM	#3
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	What is an "HR generated universe"?

11-21-2003, 04:47 PM	#4
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	It is a career using HeavyReigns fiction player file generator to create the initial player file. It can be found in the following thread. Fictional PLayer File Generator

11-21-2003, 04:56 PM	#10
cdunlap n00b Join Date: Oct 2003	Skydog, Can you please give me the file, I would like to do some testing. Thanks

11-21-2003, 05:01 PM	#15
cdunlap n00b Join Date: Oct 2003	Player File Not the generator, but the PLAYER FILE.

11-21-2003, 05:03 PM	#17
RPI-Fan Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Troy, NY	Any possible files you could want are linked in the thread at the top of the forum anyways. __________________ Quis custodiets ipsos custodes?

11-21-2003, 05:03 PM	#18
Calis College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kansas	Hmm, I was just looking around at this early this morning, when someone mentioned that HR's stats were more out of whack than the default. This was my dynasty I was running anyway, I just did some searching through it. Through 7 years we've had 71 QB's throw for over 4k yards, with one QB breaking 5k. So I'm seeing just a hair over 10 QB's per year average. Interesting thing I just noticed though, I only had 4 in the 2003 season as well. I'll have to dig into this some more.

11-21-2003, 05:05 PM	#19
RPI-Fan Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Troy, NY	This is pretty much the same as in all careers - the numbers are alright the first year or two, and then blow up. I studied this already with HR's file, before SD told me he was taking care of it several days ago. __________________ Quis custodiets ipsos custodes?

11-21-2003, 05:09 PM	#20
cdunlap n00b Join Date: Oct 2003	HR's Player file SkyDog, All Iwould like to do, is get the file (Player file), load it in the game and see what results I get. Thats all.

11-21-2003, 05:10 PM	#21
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	2006 4000-yard passers: 6 Completion Percentage: .600 Yards/Completion: 11.30 Yards/Attempt: 6.78 Yards Per Carry: 3.83 __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

11-21-2003, 05:14 PM	#22
HeavyReign Fast Break Basketball Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Spokane, WA	I really wish we could export the league back to the csv format after a certain number of years. Then it would be really easy to determine if the talent levels in the league are changing over time. Note for Skydog: Not sure if you saw the note of not but the FBB website should be working for most people by now. Feel free to take the note out of the sticky thread. Last edited by HeavyReign : 11-21-2003 at 05:17 PM.

11-21-2003, 05:19 PM	#24
Samdari Roster Filler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Cicero	Actually, HR, I am wondering if that would be so easy. It looks to me like, in in the player files used to generate a career, the 1-9 levels are what determines a quality. Once they are generated, there are exact ratings in each 'skill'. Do we even know if a 1-9 file is stored for players at that point? __________________ http://www.nateandellie.net Now featuring twice the babies for the same low price!

11-21-2003, 05:23 PM	#26
HeavyReign Fast Break Basketball Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Spokane, WA	True. I can see how that number wouldn't be stored at that point. Of course, I suspect it wouldn't be tough to convert back using code similar to what is used to generate the future rating in the game.

11-21-2003, 05:30 PM	#28
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	2007 4000-yard passers: 14 Completion Percentage: .605 Yards/Completion: 11.79 Yards/Attempt: 7.14 Yards Per Carry: 3.86 It only took five seasons for passing stats to get out of whack, and rushing yardage has remained low. Gotta run for now, but back later this evening with more on this... __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

11-21-2003, 05:45 PM	#31
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	Depends... the age-talent distribution could be messed up in the initial file. That would also cause it (in that case you'd see the stats normalize about 15 years out.

11-21-2003, 05:46 PM	#32
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	Daimyo, On an unrelated note whatevre happened to the script you were going to release? __________________ .

11-21-2003, 05:49 PM	#33
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	I didn't think there was any need for it anymore... it's all finished though and I (and a coupel others) have been using it for careers. I'm about 20 seasons into my first career with it. Last edited by Daimyo : 11-21-2003 at 05:51 PM.

11-21-2003, 06:02 PM	#35
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	I ran a similar test with a fictitious universe created with my script and here are the results: 2003 4000yd Passers: 3 YPC: 3.8 Comp%: 573 Y/Cm: 10.8 Y/A: 6.1 2004 4000yd Passers: 5 YPC: 3.9 Comp%: 586 Y/Cm: 10.9 Y/A: 6.4 2005 4000yd Passers: 5 YPC: 3.8 Comp%: 594 Y/Cm: 10.8 Y/A: 6.4 2006 4000yd Passers: 4 YPC: 3.8 Comp%: 585 Y/Cm: 11.0 Y/A: 6.4 2007 4000yd Passers: 13 (1 - 5000) YPC: 3.9 Comp%: 603 Y/Cm: 11.5 Y/A: 6.9 2008 4000yd Passers: 6 YPC: 3.9 Comp%: 597 Y/Cm: 11.6 Y/A: 6.9 2009 4000yd Passers: 5 YPC: 3.9 Comp%: 607 Y/Cm: 11.4 Y/A: 6.9 Interestingly enough my passing also spiked in 2007, but it drop a bit in 2008 and 2009. Looking at the 4000 yard passers in 2009 all but one of them is an 8/9 yr exp player. That sort of supports my theory that this could be caused by the initial age distribution. I know in my file I created more 2nd years than 3rds and more than 3rds than 4ths, etc. I'm guessing what's happening is that after the first few years you've added a bunch of drafted players without too many guys retiring. While it may be true that there are more players at lower experience levels than higher it is also true I imagine that the more experience you have the higher rated you are (since the low rated guys get weeded out... all the extra young guys are guys that will get weeded out). I didn't really think about this when I made my script, but now that I realize it, it will be very easy to fix this problem. Last edited by Daimyo : 11-21-2003 at 06:03 PM.

11-21-2003, 06:03 PM	#36
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	DOLA, here is the player file I used: here

11-21-2003, 06:30 PM	#38
RPI-Fan Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Troy, NY	Passing and rushing attempts seem on cue, so gameplans _could_ be an issue, but they probably aren't the only problem. Pretty much every game file used thus far has caused problems. __________________ Quis custodiets ipsos custodes?

11-21-2003, 07:27 PM	#39
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	This is from a different player file that the stats I posted above (this one was created with the same version of my script though), but here is the data from my most recently simmed solo league in 2022. By now I imagine all the original player I created are long gone and these are all Jim's drafted guys. 2022 4000yd Passers: 9 (1 w/ 5000) YPC: 4.1 Comp%: 628 Y/Cm: 12.0 Y/A: 7.5 So it looks like it doesn't get much better afterall. Last edited by Daimyo : 11-21-2003 at 07:27 PM.

11-21-2003, 11:03 PM	#44
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	I checked out the team that passed for over 5000 yards and they also were somewhere around ~10th in runs so I think it might not be a gameplan problem. I'm wondering if its possible to actually see the ai gameplans now using multiplayer? (ie have a human take over a team from the ai and check the gameplan it starts with).

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