Ray Rice Video Released

[cuervo72]

Is he banned from Kimmel during that time?

[stevew]

Seemed like he was a touch more animated than normal but his take on Roger was spot on.

[molson]

I like Simmons a lot, but one thing I'd love to ask him (along with most other members of the media), is where was their outrage before the video came out? Like Goodell, they all knew what happened in that elevator. But the whole situation was barely addressed in the Simmons NFL preview podcasts I listened to. Simmons only became angry about it after it became the cool thing to do in the media. It's fun to pile on when you feel you have moral superiority to and you feel like that momentum is behind you.

[stevew]

Foiled Dola, I think his contract is up at the end of the year. I feel like he's way bigger than ESPN, but the connections he needs are all there. Also did Cousin Sales get anything?

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yeah, I imagine you're right. But if he's got a personal twitter/fb page how could they exercise jurisdiction over that?

i mean given - if he used that then he'd get fired I imagine, but still.

Donald Sterling was forced to sell his property because of something he said in the privacy of his own house. Shit is getting out of whack.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Donald Sterling was forced to sell his property because of something he said in the privacy of his own house. Shit is getting out of whack.

Yep, we are moving to a real witch-hunt society. The Ray Rice/Adrian Peterson cases are one thing since they do not deny their actions. In those scenarios I believe it is fine to judge those actions however we see fit. But people calling for the heads of some of the other players that deny the allegations against them before the justice system has run it's course (Ray McDonald, etc) is out of line.

If i was an NFL player right now I'd be shitting my pants at the thought of breaking up with my girlfriend. All she has to do is throw out some allegations and dude is gonna be suspended for weeks or possibly released before it ever gets cleared up.

[Autumn]

Certainly there's a disturbing aspect to the "witch hunt" aspect, I agree. But to play devil's advocate, that comes about because of a real disconnect between where American society is heading and the values and beliefs of these pockets, say professional sports, CEOs, owners, etc. Guys like Sterling are far out of line with what is becoming acceptable ways to talk about race in our society, and I'm not sure that a guy like that is ever going to get that until they get clobbered over the head. Maybe hitting people in their paycheck and their livelihood is what is needed to get a message through to professional athletes, or sports owners, etc. Our society isn't going to continue to operate as though domestic violence or racism are no big deal. Making it a big big deal in these cases may get that fact through.

There may be collateral damage, like a player getting suspended when they didn't really deserve it. But number one, why don't we wait until that actually happens even once to worry about it. Number two, there has been collateral damage to others for decades. Even Rice's wife still is more worried about her husband's career than her safety. If ten guys who make a million or more a year lose some of their paycheck who shouldn't, I can't say that we're worse off as a society if it means changing attitudes towards domestic violence and maybe getting some people out of danger.

We know nobody's changed Donald Sterling's mind or Ray Rice's mind about race or violence. But there is an intermediate step I think in changing society which involves changing what is okay to say. It's changing the atmosphere kids are growing up in.

That said, another issue is that we are still learning as a society how to live in this new world of no privacy. Somebody saying racist stuff in their own home and suffering professionally because of it, celebrities being called out for things that in the past would have been private, these are new lines we're going to have to draw, and I agree that it isn't clear how to draw them. Probably it will be younger people than me who settle that.

[Suicane75]

My problem lies more in the fact that the whole of society thinks it's any of their business about any of this shit. I understand with social media and what not that it's a lot more of an all encompassing world than it was even 10 years ago and everyone has an outlet to be heard and everyone thinks their voice is important, when really, to me at least, it isn't.

I read an interesting article after Robin Williams died about griefing. Basically it talked about how everyone and anyone had to voice how much they loved the guy when the truth is most of those people who made twitter and facebook posts probably hadn't thought about Robin Williams in years, but everyone had to let everyone else know how much they loved him and how it affected them.

Ok, I'm losing my train of thought here, lol. I guess what I'm saying is, What Ray Rice, Donald Sterling or anyone else does, doesn't affect 99.9% of the people who shout about it from the mountain top, and 99.9% of those people weren't spending money on the NBA or NFL, nor did they probably have any idea who Sterling or Rice even was to begin with.

It's a virtual mob mentality, being led by the people who's idea of deep philosophical discussions are the back and forths they have on YouTube or Yahoo comment sections.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

If i was an NFL player right now I'd be shitting my pants at the thought of breaking up with my girlfriend. All she has to do is throw out some allegations and dude is gonna be suspended for weeks or possibly released before it ever gets cleared up.

There would still have to be a criminal charge. And it's definitely true that in some situations, there is probable cause for a misdemeanor domestic battery based on nothing more than the alleged victim's word. So in those situations, it's always been the case that you could be arrested, have bail and conditions of release, have the crime with the potential of jail time hanging over your head. And the state can do all of that to you if the girlfriend is a good enough liar, but we still see the right to continue playing football as being the most important right of all.

With felony charges, you don't have that concern. There can be no probable cause determination for a felony charge based on the alleged victim's word alone, there has to be some injury. Yes, it's possible for the alleged victim to injure herself and then make up a story, but that's always been the case. In those situations, the government can arrest you, impose a higher bail, more stringent release conditions, and have years of prison over your head. But once we threaten the ability to play football, that again becomes the most important right of all.

So many people in America would have collateral consequences if they had a violent criminal charge pending against them. I don't get why the right to play football is so important. A mailman or a teacher or a government attorney who loses his job over a pending case is so much more fucked financially than any football player.

So I think the exempt list is great. You keep getting paid, you don't get sent out there to represent your team and the NFL until you no longer have these violent charges hanging over your head.

[BillJasper]

Roger Goodell reportedly wants to meet with Charlie Strong | CollegeFootballTalk

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Roger Goodell reportedly wants to meet with Charlie Strong | CollegeFootballTalk

In case you didn't see the updates (came after you posted), they are now reporting that this is a false report.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by molson

I like Simmons a lot, but one thing I'd love to ask him (along with most other members of the media), is where was their outrage before the video came out? Like Goodell, they all knew what happened in that elevator. But the whole situation was barely addressed in the Simmons NFL preview podcasts I listened to. Simmons only became angry about it after it became the cool thing to do in the media. It's fun to pile on when you feel you have moral superiority to and you feel like that momentum is behind you.

Assuming you refer to the 2nd video (i have to admit that as a very casual NFL follower i have no idea if or what was known before the 1st) Simmons did address it prior to that, ripping into Goodell pretty scathingly in a Sept 4th column. (and others on Grantland have as well). Among other issues, he has quite a bit to say on the Ray Rice situation and how it blends in with other decicions by Goodell :

The League That Never Sleeps «

And somehow, Goodell escaped the spring and summer relatively unscathed, save for anyone still seething about his Earnest Byner–level fumbling of Ray Rice’s situation. The commish needed five months to determine a verdict, then bungled that verdict so gravely that he (a) improbably offended every single type of football fan (especially female fans), (b) had to send team owners an after-the-verdict letter to apologize for screwing up the first verdict, and (c) speed-rushed a harsher domestic violence policy that’s loaded with easy-to-exploit loopholes.

Who knew a league could yield that much mileage out of PED suspensions, failed drug tests, domestic disputes, fights, arrests and other sordid fodder for the ESPN Ticker–TMZ–Sports Blog–Twitter Moral Majority era? Who knew we could drag five solid months of headlines out of a soundless 49-second TMZ video? Who knew the same league could juggle this many lawsuits? Who knew so many key players could be suspended for the same opening week? Who knew so many decisions could NOT make sense, and that we’d have so much fun complaining about how they didn’t make sense? Who knew we could love a league when the answer to the question, “Does the NFL truly and honestly care about its players and its former players?” seems to be so clearly, “Not really, no”?

lots of other stuff in there on other issues related to the overall theme

[BillJasper]

As far as this law enforcement guy who sent the tape and the NFL, wouldn't there be some paper trail that he sent this tape? Surely, he didn't just drop in a mailbox to the NFL offices?

[stevew]

http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=12009808&src=desktop&rand=ref~%7B"ref"%3A"http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FhENqwTvzYF%3Fcn%3DcmVjb3NfbmV0d29ya19kaWdlc3RfYWN0aXZl"%7D

[Logan]

The Mueller report is out. Quick synopsis...did not find that anyone at the NFL saw the video before it was shown by TMZ. Also believes the NFL should have done more to obtain the evidence besides relying on law enforcement.

Robert Mueller Report

[molson]

From the summary at the end.

"Our findings demonstrate the weaknesses inherent in the League’s longstanding practice of deferring to the criminal justice system with respect to the investigation of facts and the imposition of discipline under the Personal Conduct Policy. Discipline should be imposed on the basis of the specific nature of the player’s conduct, not solely or necessarily on the disposition of a criminal case."

It does seem like we're moving in that direction. On the one hand, it's not always going to be easy for the NFL to do their own investigation of off-field conduct when they don't have the same powers of law enforcement, but on the other hand, they're not bound by the same burdens of proof or constitutional limitations that a government is. And really, when TMZ drops something in their lap, they don't need to wait around for a player's criminal attorney to drag things out, and they don't need to defer to the sweet deal the attorney made with some overworked prosecutor who can't afford to try everything.

[BishopMVP]

With the Ravens coming in to Foxboro (again), I'd just like to note that while Ray Rice is a pariah who may never play again due to from everything I can tell one terrible, but isolated, incident, Terrell Suggs is still starring despite a history of domestic violence, including dragging his wife alongside a moving car with their children in it and pouring bleach on his wife and son. Terrell Suggs, domestic violence: Like his teammate Ray Rice, the Ravens linebacker was accused of beating up his wife. But in his case, there was no video.