Isn't "Wall Street" supposed to be... tough?

Chubby · 12-03-2003, 09:30 AM

Ok since my stupid computer isn't saving any pics as friggin jpgs and only as bitmaps which I can't upload anywhere...

I'm 15 years into my Bills career on Wall Street which started with a full initial draft. We won 3 out fo the first 4 bowls (losing in the AFC title game in year 2). Year 5 I tried to squeeze one more year out of the group but lost in the playoffs. Years 6-9 we were in cap hell/rebuilding. We then lost in the playoffs in year 10 but have reeled of 5 straight bowl wins since.

Now my first 3 bowls weren't a big deal as I figured that the draft had something to do with them but now that I have won 5 in a row (going on 6 when I get back from errands) I'm left wondering what the deal is?

Ben E Lou · 12-03-2003, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chubby
Ok since my stupid computer isn't saving any pics as friggin jpgs and only as bitmaps which I can't upload anywhere...

I'm 15 years into my Bills career on Wall Street which started with a full initial draft. We won 3 out fo the first 4 bowls (losing in the AFC title game in year 2). Year 5 I tried to squeeze one more year out of the group but lost in the playoffs. Years 6-9 we were in cap hell/rebuilding. We then lost in the playoffs in year 10 but have reeled of 5 straight bowl wins since.

Now my first 3 bowls weren't a big deal as I figured that the draft had something to do with them but now that I have won 5 in a row (going on 6 when I get back from errands) I'm left wondering what the deal is?

Trading for that top five draft pick got anything to do with it?

Chubby · 12-03-2003, 09:35 AM

nope, i don't trade up in the draft. I will trade in week 4 my 1st round pick to a team that sucks for their 1st round pick tho. Right before cap hell and maybe the 1st year of it, I traded all my picks for future years' picks since I didn't have any $ to sign anyone anyways.

This led to me having a couple of years where I'd have 2-3 1st rounders but they'd spread out since I traded way before that draft. Then of course my scout has to actually be right in the draft and the players can't bust either...

QuikSand · 12-03-2003, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chubby
I'm left wondering what the deal is?

Quote:

Originally posted by Chubby
I will trade in week 4 my 1st round pick to a team that sucks for their 1st round pick tho.

Right before cap hell and maybe the 1st year of it, I traded all my picks for future years' picks since I didn't have any $ to sign anyone anyways.

Looks like we maybe on to something there...

Chubby · 12-03-2003, 09:41 AM

QS - ahh but that's doesnt guarentee me a high pick. Several times the team I trade to ends up turning the season around (ala the Eagles this year IRL) and I still end up with a 20+ pick overall in the 1st round so it's not a guarentee of a high pick every year.

Ksyrup · 12-03-2003, 09:44 AM

But you get 2-3 of them per round, it sounds like. That kind of talent adds up.

Blade6119 · 12-03-2003, 09:45 AM

stop complaining if your trying to cheat the system

Ksyrup · 12-03-2003, 09:47 AM

Dola.

When I play, I try to keep my roster moves and trades as realistic as possible, with the caveat that for my own fun and for purposes of this game, player trades occur more frequently in FOF than in real life. Still, I would force myself to suck it up for the drafts, since no team trades its entire draft away due to financial constraints. They either trade their highest picks for numerous, less expensive lower-round ppicks, or cut existing overpaid players, or a combination of both. Even Ditka got Ricky Williams in return for NO's entire draft.

QuikSand · 12-03-2003, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chubby
QS - ahh but that's doesnt guarentee me a high pick. Several times the team I trade to ends up turning the season around (ala the Eagles this year IRL) and I still end up with a 20+ pick overall in the 1st round so it's not a guarentee of a high pick every year.

No, it's not a guarantee, but it's obviously an advantage. It's also obviously taking advantage of a relative weakness in the trading AI (I don't think teams properly value future year draft picks). In the real NFL, under what circumstances would the 1-3 Bears deal away their forthcoming first round pick to the 4-0 Chiefs?

Of course, I really don't care how you play the game... but if you're going to post about hos it's too easy, you have to be prepared for some comments about the nature of your play. I think that once the dust settles on FOF 2004, the serious players will be right back to using house rules of various sorts to preclude this sort of thing, and to maintain their desired level of challenge in the game.

If you want more challenge, this sounds like a pretty good place to start. It's obviously not very realistic - so don't do it.

Ksyrup · 12-03-2003, 10:01 AM

I'm not even sure I'd consider that a "house rule," per se. I just think of it as playing "within the game." There is an obvious (to me, at least) realism factor that you can temper your playing of all sorts of games with, to make them more challenging.

This is why I find OOTP solo play to be moderately challenging. Rather than sign 5 star pitchers and 7 star position players just because I can within the financial constraints of the game, I analyze my roster and minor leagues, determine which positions need an immediate upgrade to a star, which positions I can live with the guy I have, and which positions have an up-and-coming potential star that I should be ready to play in a year or two, meaning that I fill that position with an adequate rent-a-player who can be easily disposed of or benched when the time comes to bring up the farmhand.

If you do whatever the game allows you to do to win, you'll likely not have much of a challenge.

Sidhe · 12-03-2003, 10:09 AM

I didn't do any of those things, but I did win four of five SBs in the early years (after preference draft). However, when I got into cap trouble I did what real NFL teams do -- cut some players I wished I could keep and played a lot of 1st year players..

It took me years to get back to the SB, and by then all the other teams were as talented as mine, or more.

If you simply avoided getting multiple first round picks every year, you'd find the game challenging enough.

Bee · 12-03-2003, 10:40 AM

I believe the "Wall Street level" has very little impact on the difficulty of winning. I think it has much more to do with finances, being fired, etc that has very little affect IMO on the product you can put out on the field.

Chubby · 12-03-2003, 10:57 AM

QS - I'm not concerned if people critique how I play. Yes, I agree that teams should value their next year's picks as if the draft were to start that day (i.e. the worst team in the league would treat their 1st for next as the #1 overall making it much harder to trade for).

Ksyrup - nope. the only time i've had multiple 1st rounders is when getting out of cap hell. since i couldn't sign a 1st rounder while in cap hell i traded it for a future 1st. every other year i only have 1 1st round pick.

Sidhe - see above.

judicial clerk · 12-03-2003, 11:15 AM

What is a good basic house rule to limit taking advantage of the questionable draft pick trading AI while still allowing trades? It is a weakness of mine that I cannot be like Ksyrup and "play within the game" to maintain realism. I need a hard and fast house rule.

cthomer5000 · 12-03-2003, 11:20 AM

I've haven't had overwhelming success playing the game pretty much all-out. I've made a few weird draft trades (getting out of rounds 4-7 for a future 2nd or 3rd), but have pretty much played normally.

Now in 2023, I've won 1 title, lost 1 championship game, and made the playoffs probably 15 times. My team seems to flop in the playoffs very often. I also seem to be in the weakest division year after year (where 8 or 9 wins is usually enough to take it).

So far I've found it more difficult than it used to be, but I'm sure once I "crack" the draft I'll need to start implementing house rules.

Bee · 12-03-2003, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by judicial clerk
What is a good basic house rule to limit taking advantage of the questionable draft pick trading AI while still allowing trades? It is a weakness of mine that I cannot be like Ksyrup and "play within the game" to maintain realism. I need a hard and fast house rule.

Don't make trade offers for draft picks.

Chubby · 12-03-2003, 11:21 AM

cthomer - it's not the draft you need to crack, it's contracts

i'll be posting the # of 1st rounders on each team when I get to the draft (after my 15th season) shortly...

cthomer5000 · 12-03-2003, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bee
Don't make trade offers for draft picks.

don't make draft-pick for draft-pick trades would probably be an easy one. I think player-for-picks or picks-for-player are judged pretty evenly by the CPU.

Chubby · 12-03-2003, 11:27 AM

1st round picks per team prior to the draft of 2018

NE - 15
Buf - 14 (me)
Wash - 13
Balt - 12
Miami - 12
Minnesota - 12
Tenn - 12
Chi - 11
Cin - 11
Hou - 11
Atl - 10
Car - 10
Det - 10
NYG - 10
Phi - 10
Sea - 10
TB - 10
Cle - 10

everyone else has less than 10, so no i'm not raping the draft every year.

Honolulu Blue · 12-03-2003, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by judicial clerk
What is a good basic house rule to limit taking advantage of the questionable draft pick trading AI while still allowing trades? It is a weakness of mine that I cannot be like Ksyrup and "play within the game" to maintain realism. I need a hard and fast house rule.

I'll give you a few I've used in past FOF games, not all at the same time:

1) Don't make trade offers, but AI-suggested offers are OK to take. I don't think you'll like this one because the AI seems to offer fewer trades in this version, and you'll want to trade some players to get out of cap trouble.

2) No trading picks for picks except during the draft.

3) No trades during the regular season.

4) A limit of two draft picks in any round of any draft.

5) A traded player must be shopped first. A player can be traded to any team that is interested. If there is no significant interest, he can't be traded that year.

Pick your favorite(s).

Capital · 12-03-2003, 12:54 PM

I think the game is relatively difficult if you start with a poor team (like Arizone) and limit yourself to only 2 trades per year. 2 trades per year is very realistic to the NFL where trades rarely occur.

The problem really is with the initial draft. It's pretty easy to get a stacked and young team that way. Simply play with the default rosters and you should have a challenge. I tried the initial draft and had to change back.

12-03-2003, 09:44 AM	#6
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	But you get 2-3 of them per round, it sounds like. That kind of talent adds up. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

12-03-2003, 09:45 AM	#7
Blade6119 Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona	stop complaining if your trying to cheat the system __________________ *Underachievement* The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower. *Despair* It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. *Demotivation* Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of the unhappy people. http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

12-03-2003, 09:47 AM	#8
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	Dola. When I play, I try to keep my roster moves and trades as realistic as possible, with the caveat that for my own fun and for purposes of this game, player trades occur more frequently in FOF than in real life. Still, I would force myself to suck it up for the drafts, since no team trades its entire draft away due to financial constraints. They either trade their highest picks for numerous, less expensive lower-round ppicks, or cut existing overpaid players, or a combination of both. Even Ditka got Ricky Williams in return for NO's entire draft. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

12-03-2003, 10:01 AM	#10
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	I'm not even sure I'd consider that a "house rule," per se. I just think of it as playing "within the game." There is an obvious (to me, at least) realism factor that you can temper your playing of all sorts of games with, to make them more challenging. This is why I find OOTP solo play to be moderately challenging. Rather than sign 5 star pitchers and 7 star position players just because I can within the financial constraints of the game, I analyze my roster and minor leagues, determine which positions need an immediate upgrade to a star, which positions I can live with the guy I have, and which positions have an up-and-coming potential star that I should be ready to play in a year or two, meaning that I fill that position with an adequate rent-a-player who can be easily disposed of or benched when the time comes to bring up the farmhand. If you do whatever the game allows you to do to win, you'll likely not have much of a challenge. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

12-03-2003, 09:35 AM	#3
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	nope, i don't trade up in the draft. I will trade in week 4 my 1st round pick to a team that sucks for their 1st round pick tho. Right before cap hell and maybe the 1st year of it, I traded all my picks for future years' picks since I didn't have any $ to sign anyone anyways. This led to me having a couple of years where I'd have 2-3 1st rounders but they'd spread out since I traded way before that draft. Then of course my scout has to actually be right in the draft and the players can't bust either...

12-03-2003, 09:41 AM	#5
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	QS - ahh but that's doesnt guarentee me a high pick. Several times the team I trade to ends up turning the season around (ala the Eagles this year IRL) and I still end up with a 20+ pick overall in the 1st round so it's not a guarentee of a high pick every year.

12-03-2003, 10:09 AM	#11
Sidhe H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: NOVA USA	I didn't do any of those things, but I did win four of five SBs in the early years (after preference draft). However, when I got into cap trouble I did what real NFL teams do -- cut some players I wished I could keep and played a lot of 1st year players.. It took me years to get back to the SB, and by then all the other teams were as talented as mine, or more. If you simply avoided getting multiple first round picks every year, you'd find the game challenging enough.

12-03-2003, 10:40 AM	#12
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	I believe the "Wall Street level" has very little impact on the difficulty of winning. I think it has much more to do with finances, being fired, etc that has very little affect IMO on the product you can put out on the field.

12-03-2003, 10:57 AM	#13
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	QS - I'm not concerned if people critique how I play. Yes, I agree that teams should value their next year's picks as if the draft were to start that day (i.e. the worst team in the league would treat their 1st for next as the #1 overall making it much harder to trade for). Ksyrup - nope. the only time i've had multiple 1st rounders is when getting out of cap hell. since i couldn't sign a 1st rounder while in cap hell i traded it for a future 1st. every other year i only have 1 1st round pick. Sidhe - see above.

12-03-2003, 11:15 AM	#14
judicial clerk College Benchwarmer Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Portland, OR	What is a good basic house rule to limit taking advantage of the questionable draft pick trading AI while still allowing trades? It is a weakness of mine that I cannot be like Ksyrup and "play within the game" to maintain realism. I need a hard and fast house rule.

12-03-2003, 11:21 AM	#17
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	cthomer - it's not the draft you need to crack, it's contracts i'll be posting the # of 1st rounders on each team when I get to the draft (after my 15th season) shortly...

12-03-2003, 11:27 AM	#19
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	1st round picks per team prior to the draft of 2018 NE - 15 Buf - 14 (me) Wash - 13 Balt - 12 Miami - 12 Minnesota - 12 Tenn - 12 Chi - 11 Cin - 11 Hou - 11 Atl - 10 Car - 10 Det - 10 NYG - 10 Phi - 10 Sea - 10 TB - 10 Cle - 10 everyone else has less than 10, so no i'm not raping the draft every year.

12-03-2003, 12:54 PM	#21
Capital High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000	I think the game is relatively difficult if you start with a poor team (like Arizone) and limit yourself to only 2 trades per year. 2 trades per year is very realistic to the NFL where trades rarely occur. The problem really is with the initial draft. It's pretty easy to get a stacked and young team that way. Simply play with the default rosters and you should have a challenge. I tried the initial draft and had to change back.

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