Duke lacrosse thugs?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Noop

Reverse the roles. 3 black guys and a white stripper. We would have a different outcome. Those 3 black guys would be in jail right now.

Prove it.

Not to mention, what the hell has does that have to do with anything.

[Buccaneer]

noop, you are too young and have a good upbringing to be looking at the world constantly with black vs white glasses. What's with you?

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Noop

Reverse the roles. 3 black guys and a white stripper. We would have a different outcome. Those 3 black guys would be in jail right now.

No doubt. And if it was some black basketball player and a pretty little white resort employee, the guy would probably get the chair.

[gstelmack]

And one of the key points that the exonerated players made was that their eyes were opened to the plight of people accused of a crime who do not have access to good lawyers, and how easy it is to get railroaded. They publically called for reform to hold overzealous prosecutors accountable in their press conference after the charges were dropped.

It's not a black/white thing, it's a rich/poor thing. O.J. got off, remember?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

And one of the key points that the exonerated players made was that their eyes were opened to the plight of people accused of a crime who do not have access to good lawyers, and how easy it is to get railroaded. They publically called for reform to hold overzealous prosecutors accountable in their press conference after the charges were dropped.

It's not a black/white thing, it's a rich/poor thing. O.J. got off, remember?

The reason I put that quote in my sig was because I literally laughed out loud when I heard him say that during the press conference. The idea that it took this happening to them for them and others to recognize that there are overzealous prosecutors out there who are more about getting a conviction and less about justice is sad to me. I thought that was fairly obvious for years now. Anyone who thinks that the prosecutors, the media, and the general public will went for the judicial process to run its course before passing judgment on anyone who is accused is fooling themselves.

[JW]

I saw this thread today and remembered making some comment early on. Then I looked closer and saw that I started this thread. I was curious about my original comment. I guess I did okay.

If true, pretty sad.

I do remember thinking at the time that it would not surprise me at all if it was true. In fact I was leaning that way. But it would also not surprise me if it was not true. But I try to follow the old Army truism in such things: The first report is always wrong. Remembering that will often keep you from jumping off the cliff with the lemmings.

Is this about race? Only in the minds of people black and white who wanted to make it about race. This is more about the extraordinarily abusive actions of a DA.

[gstelmack]

Good article in the N&O on the rush to prosecute by Nifong:

http://www.newsobserver.com/1537/story/564100.html

[molson]

Originally Posted by Noop

Reverse the roles. 3 black guys and a white stripper. We would have a different outcome. Those 3 black guys would be in jail right now.

With DNA evidence exonerating the black guys? Whatever. I feel bad for you.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

The reason I put that quote in my sig was because I literally laughed out loud when I heard him say that during the press conference. The idea that it took this happening to them for them and others to recognize that there are overzealous prosecutors out there who are more about getting a conviction and less about justice is sad to me. I thought that was fairly obvious for years now. Anyone who thinks that the prosecutors, the media, and the general public will went for the judicial process to run its course before passing judgment on anyone who is accused is fooling themselves.

In his defense, he's was just a kid. I wouldn't be too harsh on him, since like many college kids at elite universities, he has thus far lived a sheltered life where he has not had to directly deal with issues of class. I see it as a credit to his intelligence that he would come to the realization he came to.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Good article in the N&O on the rush to prosecute by Nifong:

http://www.newsobserver.com/1537/story/564100.html

Wow. Pretty good read and pretty damning. If true, get that guy's bar license off of him as soon as possible.

[CraigSca]

Welcome to Hollywood!

Duke Lacrosse accuser charged with arson

Updated at 09:08 AM today




DURHAM (WTVD) -- The woman who was the center of the infamous Duke Lacrosse rape case has been arrested and charged with assault.
Durham police say officers responded to a domestic call on Lincoln Street just before midnight Thursday.


According to officers, 33year-old Crystal Gale Mangum got into an argument with her boyfriend, Milton Walker, which resulted in her assaulting him.
According to the arrest warrant, Mangum scratched, punched and threw objects at Walker before setting his clothes on fire in a bathtub.


Police had to evacuate three children, Mangum and Milton from the apartment. The children are ages 10, 9 and 3. The Durham County magistrate would not confirm if the children are Mangum's. Firefighters were dispatched to put the fire out and no one was injured.


Mangum is charged with with five counts of arson, simple assault, ID theft, communicating a threat, damage to property and resist, delay and obstruction. She also faces three counts of child endangerment.
The magistrate told ABC11 Mangum is also charged with first-degree attempted murder for communicating a threat. She allegedly told Walker in front of officers, "I'm going to stab you [expletive]!"


Nearly four years ago, Mangum, who was an exotic dancer, accused three Duke Lacrosse players of raping her at an off campus party.
The case made international news and the charges against the Duke students were eventually dismissed.


Since the case, Mangum graduated from North Carolina Central University and wrote a book. "The Last Dance for Grace: The Crystal Mangum Story," which was released in 2008.


She is being held without bond and her first court appearance is scheduled for today.

[RedKingGold]

Wonder how the book is selling.

[Logan]

This was a sad thread to read through.

[gstelmack]

Duke Lacrosse accuser's boyfriend dies | abc11.com

Now going up for murder it looks like.

[JediKooter]

Doh! She's one class act.

[molson]

Her only chance is if Mike Nifong gets his disbarment vacated and gets his old job back.

And ya, this thread is a very interesting read from start to end.

[Noop]

You all are cunts.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Duke lacrosse accuser found guilty of murder - ESPN

[Bonegavel]

I can't believe this happened in 2006. Holy smokes time flies.

[Butter]

Funny to see some of the names that were discussing this. Many of them have been gone or banned for a while.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Nothing is as depressing as an old thread being bumped reminding you of a vibrant FOFC.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Logan

This was a sad thread to read through.

Last night I finally got around to watching the 30 for 30 on this and this quote still holds.

Props to kcchief for identifying Nifong as a scumbag from the jump.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Logan

Last night I finally got around to watching the 30 for 30 on this and this quote still holds.

Props to kcchief for identifying Nifong as a scumbag from the jump.

Didn't quite nail it on my first post, but the 2nd one was pretty solid.

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I'd be surprised too, but the links posted in post #51 are enough to add doubt in my mind at this point and let the legal system take its course. Everything you said about different groups having something to gain from this applies to this more than you know - mixed race, mixed income Southern townies vs. college kids predominantly rich, white and from Long Island/NJ. There's also the anti-athlete stereotypes and backlash that is present on many campuses.

The fact that the big new revelation is an e-mail that, while obviously in poor taste, is clearly to my mind a joke, leading to charges of conspiracy to commit murder makes me think there's a bit of a witchhunt or a shoddy DA here.

Any way this case plays out, people making their minds up now are probably gonna look stupid in the end.

This thing obviously touched a bit of a nerve with me as a member of a college lacrosse team at the time (a club lacrosse team to be sure, but certainly one that had plenty of parties with some underage drinking and even hired a stripper or two... though apparently we did a better job vetting them, and that was more of a Montreal trip thing anyways.) If anything I was a little too critical of the players (though, yes, I had heard early on through the grapevine that a few - though certainly not Evans in particular and I don't think Seligmann either - did throw out the kind of racist, misogynistic slurs that would cause an inebriated and emotionally unstable girl to concoct false charges when led down that path by a police department and DA who were somewhere between egregiously bad at their jobs and outright criminals.)

Glad the 30 for 30 came out and at least opened a fair amount of people's eyes, even if a large segment of the population still thinks "Duke lacrosse" was guilty. Still can't believe Nifong only served one day in jail, still can't believe the professors at Duke took out that full page ad and never apologized for it (though from what I hear the players got a nice amount of $$$ from the University for it), and really still can't believe the indictments even happened. The 2nd girl was saying it never happened. There was DNA evidence coming as close to exonerating the players as DNA evidence could. There was evidence that multiple players who were charged weren't even at the party at the time. And all of this was the case before the indictments were even issued. I'm just really glad that that CSI guy messed up on the stand and blew the whole thing open so the string wasn't fully played out.

I'm not going to shed tears for the specific players, as like they said they had the resources to fight it, but it really was eye opening to see not only how egregiously the media would keep piling on even when there were gaping holes in a story but also how parts of a system I assumed at least had some boundaries could still be so twisted at the local level by snake oil salesman and incompetence (on the local police's part). Again, the fact that Nifong only got 1 day in jail is a travesty, and it really does make you wonder just how many other cases are out there like it.

[Senator]

I read this thread start to finish. Interesting study of human nature of posters responding with limited data, but very passionately..

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Chubby

I'm not saying the lax players are innocent but if the cops are "townies" (for lack of a better term) then it's certainly possible they are going to go full bore on this even if there's little evidence (and i don't know how much there is)

Chubby i hope you picked up lottery tickets right after you posted this. you were dead on

[Logan]

I can't recall if it was this story or another that opened my eyes on the whole "only guilty people hire lawyers" thing. I was 21 at the time, so I was young but not too young. I probably should have realized earlier.

[flere-imsaho]

This was 10 years ago? I am sooooo old....

[Butter]

More than willing to admit I rushed to assume the Duke players guilty. It has helped me look at such accusations with a slightly more critical eye, but if this happened again I probably would be in much the same boat.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

More than willing to admit I rushed to assume the Duke players guilty. It has helped me look at such accusations with a slightly more critical eye, but if this happened again I probably would be in much the same boat.

It is fascinating to look back that long ago and see a different version of yourself. I held that opinion and voiced it in this thread. I was an idiot. Getting a lawyer and shutting up is exactly what they should have done.

Thankfully, I have a lot of posts in the thread questioning the evidence which I couldn't wrap my head around at the time.

I wasn't saying the players were innocent, but the more evidence that came out without any proof, I started to question myself. I went from "I don't see enough evidence to prosecute this case" to "Holy hell, do they have ANY evidence? What is going on here?" over the span of about 3 weeks.

This is such an emotional topic. We don't want to think what happened is true, but the opposite side is also true. We don't want to think and have a tough time believing that prosecutors, police and "victims" would lie about something this horrific.

Yet they do. So sad, so incredibly sad.

[AENeuman]

So just watched the 30 for 30, very good. I'm assuming the reason there were no ESPN clips on the events was because it was their film. Was ESPN absent in reporting it, or was it just convienent directing?

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

So just watched the 30 for 30, very good. I'm assuming the reason there were no ESPN clips on the events was because it was their film. Was ESPN absent in reporting it, or was it just convienent directing?

no they were right in the thick of it. they had all their taking heads with their hypocritical moral superiority taking about it daily for months on end.

[dzilla77]

If I remember right ESPN led the charge to convict the team in the court of public opinion. They had to scrap all that footage because you can't get that much egg off the camera lens.

[Arles]

Yeah, Jemelle Hill was forced by public pressure to issue a public apology. She was first in line with pitchforks to convict the team:

Hill: Apology not enough - ESPN Page 2

No mention in the doc, though...

[digamma]

From what I remember, Hill was one of the few in the media who stepped up and offered an apology, and a really good one at that.

[Arles]

She did the best at offering an apology, but it was a big story at the time. You'd think that ESPN would have highlighted that in the doc (Hey, we atleast owned up a bit). But, given Hill's history of needing apologies (and suspensions), maybe they didn't want to bring attention to that.