Some guys at school are saying Santa doesn't exist...

[FrogMan]

As some of you may know, I'm the proud dad of an amazing 6 year old boy, with another one coming up in less than a month. He started first grade this Fall, and with it, he has not stopped amazing us with every little new thing he learns, especially his reading skills...

Yesterday at dinner, with Christmas coming up, the living room in a mess since we're on the ongoing process of getting the place decorated, we had a little conversation that made me half-smile, but also kind of made me sad inside... Kiddo came and between two bites said something to the effect of what's in the title, that some guys at school were telling him that Santa doesn't really exist... He rationalized by himself that it couldn't be true, because "you know when you go and sit with him at the shopping center, and ask him for a racing track for Christmas, he's there, he's got to be real"

My wife had probably the best answer possible as she said "He exists for people who believe in him"...

While we all know that they won't stay young all of their life, I cherish the time he is giving us right now, and this was the heads up that this may well be his last Christmas where we put cookies and a glass of milk on the living room table for Santa... Kid's growing up...

Just wanted to share that with someone... Cherish the moment guys, some of these will never happen again...

FM

[Draft Dodger]

I look forward to this kind of stuff. I was 7 when I found out (when I found the boxes for the big wheels in the garage the following spring)

Graham's almost 2, so this is the first Christmas he's really noticing stuff. No clue about Santa yet, but he likes opening presents, so that's going to be a blast (we're not going to put out the presents until after he goes to be Christmas Eve, so he'll wake up Christmas Day to all the packages under the tree).

we put up the tree Sunday - he had fun putting all the ornaments up (and, since then, he's had fun taking all the ornanments that he can reach DOWN).

good times, good times.

[hollmt]

I remember when i found out that Santa didnt exist. I guess i did the rationlizing thing too, but in the opposite way.

I think i was about 7 or 8 and my parents and i had put up the cookies and milk right before i was supposed to be in bed. Cause Santa wouldnt come if i was still awake right?

So i went to bed and all was grand! I woke up the next morning, and the first thing my parents did was take me to the empty plate and glass of milk with 2 polaroid pictures on the table.

Problem was, and i noticed it, was that the first picture and 2nd picture, had the dining room clock that was on the wall, with the first picture being taken BEFORE I WENT TO BED, and the 2nd picture being taken not even 5 minutes after i went to bed.

I said..WOW I JUST MISSED SANTA! so i put it all together and my dreams of the tooth fairy as well went out the window.

[tucker342]

I remember one year, I found all of my Christmas presents in my moms and dads room. When I told my parents about it, they said that they were just holding the presents for Santa until Christmas

Good times

[Ksyrup]

I remember when I first discovered the truth. My dad was in the 4th bedroom with the door closed wrapping presents, and I snuck a peak under the door at one of the presents...and saw just enough to recognize it as one of the presents Santa ended up bringing for me a few days later.

My 4-year old is at that age of complete belief, so we've been using it to our advantage - every single time she disobeys, its, "Santa's watching, he won't be coming if you keep that up." A few times I've caught her glimpsing around, as if she's looking for a hidden camera or something, and I've had to turn away so she doesn't see me laughing.

She'll be about 5 years older than the 2nd child, so I can see her at 10 getting into a fight with her 5 year old sibling, and out of spite, spilling the beans. And she'll end up with a lump of coal if that happens...

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
My 4-year old is at that age of complete belief, so we've been using it to our advantage - every single time she disobeys, its, "Santa's watching, he won't be coming if you keep that up." A few times I've caught her glimpsing around, as if she's looking for a hidden camera or something, and I've had to turn away so she doesn't see me laughing.

That threat still works pretty well with Andrew, so he's not completely out of the belief... I did have to turn my head sidewys yesterday so he wouldn't catch me with that wide smile I had on my face

Originally posted by Ksyrup

She'll be about 5 years older than the 2nd child, so I can see her at 10 getting into a fight with her 5 year old sibling, and out of spite, spilling the beans. And she'll end up with a lump of coal if that happens...

For us, Andrew and his brother will be 7 years apart, or just about. Funnny you mention this because I thought the exact same thing yesterday when going to bed, how will he behave with the younger ones in terms of not crushing all of his kid belief... Time will tell...

FM

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by tucker342
I remember one year, I found all of my Christmas presents in my moms and dads room. When I told my parents about it, they said that they were just holding the presents for Santa until Christmas

Good times

You know that kiddos come to remember where they saw that wrapping paper or that other one, yeah they saw it in daddy's closet Last year, we explained that sometimes we have to wrap gifts for Santa because he's got way too much work for one poor man to do in one night

FM

[Pumpy Tudors]

What the fuck do you mean, there's no Santa?

[illinifan999]

You mean he doesn't exist? LIARS!!!!!

True story though, one Christmas Eve when I was I think 5 and I remember this clearly as do both my parents. Our doorbell rang and a guy in a Santa suit was at the door. He said Merry Christmas! My mom said it back and he turned around and she closed the door. Then we heard a loud noise and my mom opened the door. Well our house had these big long stairs that you had to go up to get to the front door. It was snowing pretty hard so you would notice any and all footprints. Well she opened the door and there were no footsteps at all. So maybe the sound was the guy jumping 25 feet into our driveway, or maybe....just maybe......

[sabotai]

Who's this Santa person?

[SnowMan]

I love other people's kids. You can give em back when they get grumpy.

[Daimyo]

You guys are going to ruin it for Shorty...

[korme]

[mckerney]

Originally posted by Daimyo
You guys are going to ruin it for Shorty...

Congratulations! You're come up with the least creative attempt at a joke of the week.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally posted by mckerney
Congratulations! You're come up with the least creative attempt at a joke of the week.

Whoa, who appointed you as babysitter?

[JW]

Just tell the kid that he has to believe in Santa to get presents from Santa. He will get the picture, and you can continue to have the fiction for several more years. My daughter is almost 12, and she still gets presents from Santa, even though she of course knows there is no Santa, and we know she knows. We just pretend, and it is fun.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Tell your kids that Snoop Dogg is Santa. Fo shizzle.

[judicial clerk]

I actually dress up as Santa and deliver presents to a few parties, family friends, adn cheritable organizations.

That 4 year old age seems to be the most magical. Kids younger than that are afraid. Kids oldwer than that figure out that I'm not Santa. The 4 year olds are just in awe of me and they are so impressed when I know their names and a few stories to show that I have been paying attention.

[bbor]

I'm surprised you did'nt tell him that Santa is bringing you a 17 yo Excellent playmaking middie for x-mas....so he BETTER be real

[Logan]

Just a question for those with kids who put out milk and cookies for Santa...

When the little ones go to sleep on Christmas Eve, and its time to put the presents under the tree and the like...what do you do with the milk and cookies? Put em back? Pour the milk back into the carton?

Or do you eat the cookies, and maybe feel kinda bad about it?

Don't ask me why...but being Jewish, for all these years this has been my one question about Christmas...

[MrBug708]

Snackwells and Skim Milk when I was a kid. My mom didn't want my dad getting fat

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Logan
Just a question for those with kids who put out milk and cookies for Santa...

When the little ones go to sleep on Christmas Eve, and its time to put the presents under the tree and the like...what do you do with the milk and cookies? Put em back? Pour the milk back into the carton?

Or do you eat the cookies, and maybe feel kinda bad about it?

Don't ask me why...but being Jewish, for all these years this has been my one question about Christmas...

Why would I feel bad about eating the cookies (aside from the fact that I'm on a low-carb diet)? We leave some crumbs, a 3/4-eaten cookie, and a nearly empty glass of milk for the morning. The carrots we put back, since Santa took them up to the roof for the reindeer.

If you were throwing a surprise birthday party for your kid, would you feel bad for not telling them about it? I don't see the difference.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by MrBug708
Snackwells and Skim Milk when I was a kid. My mom didn't want my dad getting fat

Now I know I'm old. They had Snackwells when you were a kid?!?!?!?

[Radii]

good stuff My soon-to-be-stepson is 6, but I haven't heard anything yet about there not being a santa claus.

Related story:

Coupla weeks ago, soon-to-be-stepson lost a tooth and was all excited about putting it under his pillow for the tooth fairy. Well, his mother and i stayed up late playing a heated game of scrabble, and totally forgot about the tooth. We wake up in the morning, and kiddo is sitting on the couch with a glum look on his face, "mommy, the tooth fairy didn't come" and oh my god what a sinking feeling that was. Luckily mom thinks quick on her feet, "are you sure the tooth fairy didn't come?!" and she talked to him for a couple of minutes while I snuck my wallet into a bedroom and pulled out some money. She made the switch right under his nose, and now he is convinced that the tooth fairy was playing a big joke on him, and that she snuck in through the window all quiet-like while he was in the other room...

[Logan]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Why would I feel bad about eating the cookies (aside from the fact that I'm on a low-carb diet)? We leave some crumbs, a 3/4-eaten cookie, and a nearly empty glass of milk for the morning. The carrots we put back, since Santa took them up to the roof for the reindeer.

If you were throwing a surprise birthday party for your kid, would you feel bad for not telling them about it? I don't see the difference.

Damn. That's the last time I make a tongue-in-cheek comment about eating Santa's cookies.

[Abe Sargent]

As part of my published body of works is an article about why I as a parent would never tell my children about Santa. It's a good read, I think:






P.S. - Whoops, looks like the site is down right now. Silly newspapers. Let me check and see if I have it around here somewhere....


EDIT: Found it. From my undergrad days. Writing is not as clear as my works today for those who follow my stuff. I've obviously progressed as a freelance writer, but still, I think it's interesting discussion material.

Santa Claus Revisited


Last year for HonorSpeak, an article was written regarding
Santa Claus. I won't tell you who wrote it because it was Jamie
Dillon who is the editor this year. Sadly, I missed this excellent
piece, but I take it that it caused quite a stir. Why, you ask?
Well, Jamie took the position that we shouldn't tell our children
about Santa Claus, that we should do away with the myth.
I know that right now people are spitting fire because
Santa is sacred, but I don't think Jamie's proposal is as silly,
ridiculous, crazy, insane, unAmerican, or communist as some claim.
And, there are three really good reasons for this.

1). Telling kids about Santa Claus is lying to them. I
don't think we should tell kids about the "Stork" theory of birth
and I don't think we should tell them about Santa. If the good
Lord blesses me with kids, everyone should be assured that they
will not learn about Santa from me. Lying to a child for no good
reason other than perpetuating a myth seems wrong to me.
What would a family do if they found that their child had
been lying at school? The kid wasn't lying malicously, he was just
telling stories and claiming they were real. He told his teacher
that he used to live in China and he told the Principal that he
could dance like a ballerina. He told his classmates that he had
actually seen UFO's. All false of course, but no harm was intended
or inflicted. Would not the parents address this? Would they not
tell him that it was wrong to go around lying to people? That it is
wrong to make up stories and claim they are true? Of course the
parents and teachers would, and they should. But, aren't we doing
the exact same thing when we tell a child about Santa Claus.
It seems to me that intentionally lying to a child and then
expecting that child not to lie is hypocritical.

2). This can be a bit more dangerous. Let's say I'm a
Christian (which I am). I tell my child about Santa Claus and
about Jesus' birth. The child eventually finds out that Santa
doesn't exist, so why should he believe that Jesus does? This
works for any faith, not just Christianity. When parents of
faith teach their child lessons of that faith, but teach them
alongside myth and legend, then they do themselves a grave
dissservice. Many stories of faith are difficult to believe, that
is what makes them a story of faith. Hurting a child's
suspension of disbelief by lying about something else which is
hard to believe ultimately destroys the entire reason for telling
a child the stories of faith to begin with


3). Eventually, a child who is told Santa Claus is real
will learn otherwise. This hurts. I can remember children
discovering Santa wasn't real. They felt embarrased, angry, and
hurt. If a child is told about Santa Claus, then later that
child will feel hurt when the truth is uncovered.

4). Are we telling children about Santa for the good of the child? Seriously? I submit that the reason most parents tell their children about Santa is for themselves, not for their kids. Makes parents feel all loopy inside to see their kids putting out milk and cookies for the fat one. Santa has a lot in common with those outfits that some pet owners put on their dogs and cats. I think the myth of Santa is more about the parents than it ever is about the kids.

Parents will have to answer these questions for themselves
but a pervading belief in this society is that telling stories
about Santa deal no harm. After all, they say, I learned about
Santa and it didn't hurt me. However, I, Abe Sargent, never
learned about Santa, and I turned out OK.
But two major questions have to be posed and answered by
any parent. The first one is, "Does telling my child about Santa
Claus actually serve any good and noble purpose?" If the answer is yes then the next question is, "Does that good outweigh the potential harm it would cause?" It is my belief that the answer to both those questions is a resounding, "No." But if you answer no to either, then you need to seriously consider the lie.
And I didn't even talk about the fact that if you
rearrange the letters in SANTA you get SATAN.....






-Anxiety

[WSUCougar]

My 2-year-old son Drew is simply infatuated with our Christmas lights. Obsessed even. They are at times hilarious, wondrous, and a source for anxiety (when they are NOT ON). It's pretty amusing to watch, and a treat to see how "magical" the season is for him.

I have a fond memory of looking for Santa in the sky on Christmas Eve. My older brother actually was cool about, and would explain airplanes (with their red lights) as Rudolph.

[Ksyrup]

Logan:

Anxiety's response is exactly why I gave a serious response to your post.

Anxiety:

I see your point, and I've heard it all before. However, I've never, ever, in my life known or even heard of a child who got "embarrassed, angry, or hurt" when they found out the truth. By the time they figured it out, they were old enough to spearate reality from fiction and THAT was the reason they discovered it for themselves. In fact, in that way, I think it serves a useful purpose in advancing a child's critical thinking skills.

Also, I can tell that piece was written by someone without children. Even though this is one example, it's not so easy to separate fact from fiction in everyday life. Take cartoons - children watch them before they are able to understand you and communicate verbally with you, so trying to reason with your child at 10 months about how the Teletubbies aren't real is going to do no good. And by the time they can understand you, it's too late. IMO, part of the learning experience at that age is accepting everything at face value. Take your kid to see Finding Nemo, Aladdin, Peter Pan...your "perpetuating the myth" that animals can talk, genies come out of bottles, people can fly, etc..., and you're "lying" to your kids, in your opinion.

What about death? A couple of years ago, the fish floating at the top of the tank was "resting" (and quickly replaced that afternoon with a reasonable facsimile). Now, my 4-year old is advanced enough to understand what death is, so we explain things like that straight up now.

I submit that you can't be 100% truthful with your child AND give them a happy childhood - at least not by ordinary standards. Part of being young is dreaming and believing anything is possible - which, by the way, is useful in our adult lives as we decide how we want to live and work, don't you think? - so removing that and creating The Truman Show Reality Series for your child to grow up in is, IMO, probably more harmful than not.

[BigDPW]

I was 9 years old when I found out... I came home from school after having defended Santa at the lunch table as the only kid who still believed... I told my mom she better shoot me straight about the Santa deal and she told me the truth... Man I felt like a fool after swearing to all of my friends that he was real...

What ever you do don't string your kid along that far... I would hate for him to make a fool out of himself like I did!!!

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by WSUCougar
My 2-year-old son Drew is simply infatuated with our Christmas lights. Obsessed even. They are at times hilarious, wondrous, and a source for anxiety (when they are NOT ON). It's pretty amusing to watch, and a treat to see how "magical" the season is for him.

We signed our daughter up for the Publix Pals club (Publix, for those that don't recognize the name, is a grocery store based out of Lakeland, FL) and they send her stuff - magazines, computer games, etc. - every once in a while. Yesterday, the package she got from them contained some 3-D-ish glasses that, when worn, make Christmas lights look like snowflakes. Even the wife and I thought it was pretty cool. Now, we can't get the damn glasses off of her face!

[rkmsuf]

Right on K dude...you can't protect your kid from everything on this earth. For gosh sake give kid's a break from the sometimes ugly realities of life for just a little while in their existence.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by BigDPW
What ever you do don't string your kid along that far... I would hate for him to make a fool out of himself like I did!!!

Now THIS I agree with. I can certainly see a 10-12 year old being embarrassed and angry about something like this. I don't know what the "acceptable" age is to let it go, but I'm thinking either 7-8, or when the first questions come, whichever is earlier.

And that's something I didn't add in my earlier post - if my child ever asks me, I'll shoot straight. I know she won't ask at this age, but even if she does, I'll tell her. She doesn't quite believe that Santa watches her every day, but she believes he exists and has never questioned it.

[Ksyrup]

Another point I didn't mention is that there are other ways to "ground" your kid, so that they understand reality and can still enjoy fantasy at the same time. For instance, when reading a book about a talking moose, we might thrown in the question, "Can a moose really talk? Isn't that silly?" So, she's getting a dose of reality, but is still able to enjoy the fantasy for what it is. My child may watch Peter Pan, and at some point probably DID believe he could fly, but now understands that if she climbs on her bed and juimps off, it's going to hurt.

Same thing with Santa - at some point, she'll put all of the realities of life that she's learned together, and come to the conclusion that he can't possibly be real. And I'm willing to bet she won't be any more mad about that, then when she found out that animals can't really talk.

[Subby]

Originally posted by Ksyrup Also, I can tell that piece was written by someone without children.

Bingo. The last people in the world who should be giving advice about parenting are college kids...

[Noop]

Never really had a christmas where we waited for presents under the tree. As a child we got toys as we got older money... If my parents left cookies and milk out it would be gon by mornng cause we'd eat them.

[korme]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Now I know I'm old. They had Snackwells when you were a kid?!?!?!?

That was like, last year for Bug.

[Samdari]

Shorty is picking on someone for being young?

I have now seen it ALL.

Anxiety, that is a well written piece, and I especially take to heart the point about lying. Honesty is something very precious to me and something I intend to emphasize to pass on to children (should they ever arrive).

But, you are being very presumptuous with point #3. In regards kids discovering the truth of Santa you state, "This hurts" like it is fact. You don't even know for yourself, as you did not experience it, and since you did not quote any, I presume you are not aware of research indicating this discovery is emotionally scarring large numbers of children. You are guessing that it might hurt some kids, and thus this whole idea can be dismissed as pure speculation. Its inclusion (IMO) weakens the legitimate points you make.

Since others have brought up the concept, I won't comment on the appropriateness of someone childless giving child rearing tips, but I am curious why you would write the piece in the first place? Child rearing is a deeply personal experience, and I wonder why you, as a person without children, would think that your instructions on the proper way would be relevant to those who are undertaking it?

I also find it interesting that you have this point of view given that you never experienced the joy that the Santa Claus myth brings to children. I wonder if your feelings might be different had you experienced such. You must certainly see how this bit of knowledge will 'color' your comments to the reader.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally posted by Samdari
Shorty is picking on someone for being young?

I have now seen it ALL.

Anxiety, that is a well written piece, and I especially take to heart the point about lying. Honesty is something very precious to me and something I intend to emphasize to pass on to children (should they ever arrive).

But, you are being very presumptuous with point #3. In regards kids discovering the truth of Santa you state, "This hurts" like it is fact. You don't even know for yourself, as you did not experience it, and since you did not quote any, I presume you are not aware of research indicating this discovery is emotionally scarring large numbers of children. You are guessing that it might hurt some kids, and thus this whole idea can be dismissed as pure speculation. Its inclusion (IMO) weakens the legitimate points you make.

Since others have brought up the concept, I won't comment on the appropriateness of someone childless giving child rearing tips, but I am curious why you would write the piece in the first place? Child rearing is a deeply personal experience, and I wonder why you, as a person without children, would think that your instructions on the proper way would be relevant to those who are undertaking it?

I also find it interesting that you have this point of view given that you never experienced the joy that the Santa Claus myth brings to children. I wonder if your feelings might be different had you experienced such. You must certainly see how this bit of knowledge will 'color' your comments to the reader.

Of course it colors my perceptions, and I recognize that. Likewise, I think being told Santa also colors another person and makes them more apt to do so.

By the way, I know of no evidence beyond my own observations and ancedotes told by me by others. And I do think that I have some reason for my beliefs, since I ws told about the Tooth Fairyand I put my tooth under the pillows and whatnot. So I do recall that myth, at least.

-Anxiety