FOF2004 : trading during draft

[fantastic flying froggies]

I find that I am having a very hard time trading picks during the draft, both up or down. Computer teams usually refuse the players I offer, etc...

Is anybody having any success ? What are your strategies ?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Trading up can be difficult, the AI usually extracts a high price from me.

Trading down however, I do so much of that I'm considering whether there's a need for a house rule or something.

Basically, I'm always able to trade equal value (i.e. this year's 3rd & next year's 4th for your 4th this year & 3rd next year.) It doesn't appear that the AI does much, if anything, in the way of projecting the future performance of the computer teams, so it's pretty easy IMO to steal high draft choices a year in advance.

I'm coming off a run of 20+ consecutive playoff seasons, so I generally know my own picks won't be very good. Several seasons have happened where I don't even start the draft with any of my own picks, much less actually use any of my own.

[oykib]

I've noticed that you can't get a team's pick for anything if they are set to take a highly rated player at the top of their need list. I started to have much more fun with the drft when I noticed that teams tended to draft towards their needs pretty faithfully.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by oykib
I've noticed that you can't get a team's pick for anything if they are set to take a highly rated player at the top of their need list. I started to have much more fun with the drft when I noticed that teams tended to draft towards their needs pretty faithfully.

I agree - i have been very satisfied with the relative relism of the draft, seeing teams targeting needs areas pretty faithfully, and seeing their demands for trades being fairly on target.

If you have in mind the standards of older FOF games, there will be an adjustment (it's harder to trade up, I think) but overall, I think trading within the draft is done pretty well.

(The only area where I still sense real weakness in the valuation of future year's draft picks - where currently bad teams' picks don't seem to b weighted differently than currently god teams' picks)

[yabanci]

I think the AI teams make some very interesting trades among themselves -- I only wish teams came to you with offers during the draft too.

[oykib]

The other problem is tht teams do not agressively go after top rated QBs-- even when they have a need.

You can get 8.5+ adjusted rating QBs falling into the middle of the first round. That would never happen in reality. Someone would really get after a top ten pick to take one.

Also, losing teams without a dire need for a QB would still take a franchise QB rather than a corner or something that is, technically, rated more highly.

[fantastic flying froggies]

All those points remind me of something else : it would be nice in draft to see the drafting teams' needs on the draft screeen proper.

[kcchief19]

When trading picks, it certainly seems the AI values picks over players. In my current career, I played a game of chicken with starting RB at the end of his contract who wanted a huge extension. I franchised him, hoping he would agree to a cheaper long-term deal. That didn't work. He still wants big money the moment I clicked the tag his loyalty went down the toilet.

I shopped him around, but nobody would take him for what I was willing to give up. There was one super book and two solid backs in the draft, and I offered my back and two first rounders but nobody would bite. If I were willing to throw in a third No. 1, I could have made the deal, but then I wouldn't have needed him in the deal to make it.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Originally posted by kcchief19
When trading picks, it certainly seems the AI values picks over players.

I agree with that. Yet, it seems to me that trades between 2 computer teams almost never involve pick for pick trades, but rather pick for player.

[Darkiller]

True : trading during the draft is much more difficult than in previous versions of FOF.

in the same breath, there are much less trade offers every year.
Although it is probably closer to what reality offers, I don't know if -for the sake of "having fun playing the game"- it is necessarily a good thing ?
(just a thought)

I simply love to see 4-6 trade offers every year so that to know who my "hot" players are.
In FOF2K4, this is rare...it looks like you're luck if you have a couple of them every season.

[OldGiants]

I think the AI values picks over players because of the cap room. A pick is a fixed salary for X years. A player is more than that and usually for a shorter contract.

Easier to set up budgeting AI with more fixed contracts, IMO.

[QuikSand]

I think that for most of its history, the FOF game (read: AI-run teams in the game) has overrated the value of players in trades.

In football, a game driven by its salary cap, a player's true worth lies in his relative value -- how effective is he, compared to how much he costs under the salary cap. It's actually quite simple.

So, if you go out and sign a solid free agent player, offer up a nice deal for $5 million a year for him to sign, and just beat out your closest rivals -- it certainly seems like you are getting that player for his correct market value. You pay him $5 million, and he ought to give you that much back in terms of results.

What is this player worth? Setting aside the effects of bonuses, the answer ought to be nothing. If he's getting paid properly for his current production, then his value ought to be basically zero. Yes, there are times when positional scarcity makes team do irrational things -- but in general, to expect that teams will line up and offer high-level draft picks or other valable commodities in exchange for highly-paid effective players never made much sense to me. If the guys's salary is in concert with his skills ... then he doesn't represent real value to the team, and shouldn't be worth all that much in trade.

Yes, sometimes you develop a player, and he becomes worth more than you're paying him -- then you have real trade value. Understood. But that can't describe the majority of veteran players in the league -- not everyone can be underpaid. It's folly to think that nearly every player on your roster is or ought to be worth something in trade. Even the effective ones.


In FOF 2004, it seems to me that the value of players has gone down in trade discussions, and at the same time, the certainty of draft picks "panning out" has been meaningfully reduced. I think that makes for a much better balance in trading AI, overall.

It will be frustrating for gamers who like to trade away every player who is in the last year of a contract in order to stockpile huge draft caches... but in realistic and challenge terms, I think it's a good advance.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Points taken and accepted QS.

However, during the draft, most high caliber FA have signed already. What if a team still has a major hole at a position (say RB for the sake of argument), and cannot fix it thru the draft. Then (and only then), a tradable player would then have value for that particular team, don't you agree ? Say, in my example, I have 2 RB of similar value and want to trade one, then the computer team should at least be interested in trading. I usually try to offer players that fit the other team's needs list, but with very little success...