Shooting at courthouse in Downtown Atlanta

[JonInMiddleGA]

Since at least one person recognizes the name TI (I wasn't sure how known/unknown he was), here's the original story.

ATLANTA (AP) - A best-selling rapper filmed an unauthorized video at the Fulton County Jail while out on work release from another jail, embarrassed county officials said.

Part of a video for rapper Clifford Harris, whose stage name is T.I., was shot Thursday night, authorities said.

An Atlantic Records spokesman for the rapper did not immediately return calls for comment.

Harris' first album, "I'm Serious," was released in 2001. His second album, "Trap Muzik," was a best-seller on the charts last year.

Harris was serving jail time in neighboring Cobb County on a probation violation when he received permission to leave the jail to make the tape at the Fulton jail, Cobb County Chief Deputy Sheriff Lynda Coker said.

A spokesman for Fulton County Sheriff Jackie Barrett said she had no idea a rap video was being filmed inside the 3,200-inmate jail. Deputies apparently allowed "four or five" men up to the seventh floor with a hand-held camcorder, Barrett said. Barrett said the deputies would be disciplined.

Coker said officials in her county didn't block the request at that end because "we felt that the Fulton County Jail was not an inappropriate destination for him to be." Harris had served time at Fulton previously, officials said.

He reported back to the Cobb jail early Friday, Coker said.

Fulton County Chairwoman Karen Handel, who has long been critical of Barrett, blasted the sheriff.

"You're going to have a video crew roaming around the jail? I don't understand why that was even remotely considered," Handel said.

Last week, a monitor released a report last week saying conditions at the crowded Fulton jail were becoming increasingly dangerous and unhealthy. There have also been a string of 10 escapes or accidental releases from the jail in the last 16 months.
http://www.wkrn.com/global/story.asp...Type=Printable

[Ben E Lou]

Man claims hostage shared in drugs
Ashley Smith used some of the methamphetamine that she gave Brian Nichols in the hours before he was arrested, according to a man who claims to be a close friend of the shooting suspect who says the pair knew each other prior to that too.

Smith responded "that was a lie" to WSB-TV, which reported Tuesday that Maurice Lovemore, a friend of Nichols, said Nichols had known Smith before he held her captive for several hours in March.

Smith also said it was "totally ludicrous" to suggest she took some of the drugs that she gave Nichols in her apartment where he holed up for several hours before surrendering to police the morning of March 12, just 24 hours after he escaped from the Fulton County Courthouse.

Nichols is accused of killing four people after he broke out of the courthouse March 11 before he was arrested the next day at Smith's Gwinnett apartment.

Lovemore, who said he was Nichols' best friend, told WSB that Nichols described Smith's account of those hours in her Duluth apartment as a "Hollywood" story and "totally fabricated." According to the television news story, Lovemore was vague, offering no details as to how he knew Nichols.

Sgt. Nikita Adams-Hightower, spokeswoman for the Fulton Sheriff's Office, which runs the jail, said Lovemore visited Nichols on Oct. 16, bringing with him a copy of Smith's book for Nichols to autograph.

Adams-Hightower said Nichols also used his own blood to leave a fingerprint in the book.

She said Lovemore had visited Nichols at the jail only once.

Smith wrote in her book, "An Unlikely Angel," that she had given Nichols methamphetamine but that she did not use the drug with him. She has insisted in subsequent interviews that she had quit using drugs.

According to Lovemore, Nichols' response to that claim was " 'How many crack heads do you know are going to let you get high in front of them on their supply?' "

Lovemore also said Nichols claimed he and Smith had "some kind of relationship before that day" Nichols allegedly came up on Smith outside her Duluth apartment as she was returning from a 2 a.m. trip to the store for cigarettes.

Smith issued a statement through her publicist Tuesday disputing all of Lovemore's claims.

"As I say in my book and have said in countless interviews, my first encounter with Brian Nichols was when he pulled a gun on me and forced me into my apartment," the statement read. "My life has changed completely as a result of this ordeal, which put me face to face with my God and my drug addiction. As a result, I not only refused to do drugs with Brian Nichols that night, but more importantly I have no desire to ever do drugs again. I feel that God used this encounter with Brian Nichols to free me from this addiction and I want to help others experience the same freedom."

Gwinnett County District Attorney Danny Porter said Tuesday that he was "skeptical" of Lovemore's claim. "This is the first time this guy is coming forward. There is no external evidence they [Smith and Nichols] knew each other. Nichols didn't mention his relationship in his first statements [with police].

"I'm not sure I believe all this," Porter said.

Nichols is being held in the Fulton County Jail charged in the slaying of Fulton County Judge Rowland Barnes, court reporter Julie Ann Brandau and Sgt. Hoyt Teasley at the courthouse and U.S. Customs agent David Wilhelm later in Buckhead.

.

[stevew]

I was searching for something else, but in the meantime, i re-found this thread. It's now more than 2 years later, and the dude hasn't even gone to trial yet. For some reason, that's absolutely amazing to me. His attorney's have attempted to have him plead guilty and avoid the death penalty, but it doesn't look like the prosecution will take it.

[miked]

Originally Posted by stevew

I was searching for something else, but in the meantime, i re-found this thread. It's now more than 2 years later, and the dude hasn't even gone to trial yet. For some reason, that's absolutely amazing to me. His attorney's have attempted to have him plead guilty and avoid the death penalty, but it doesn't look like the prosecution will take it.

This is a fairly big story down here, but from what I understand the lawyers have spent lots of money on his defense, but are completely out. And the state legislature passed something recently that caps money for criminal defense. Basically they are saying the trial is so big, they can't possibly afford to defend him, let alone what is required for the death penalty. I think he plead guilty to some, but there are still like 50 pending charges.

Seems pretty silly to pursue the death penalty when you won't give them adequate representation. Just let him plead guilty and sentence him to a bunch of life terms. He won't get out, it will probably cost taxpayers less in the long run, and it will be over.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by miked

Seems pretty silly to pursue the death penalty when you won't give them adequate representation. Just let him plead guilty and sentence him to a bunch of life terms. He won't get out, it will probably cost taxpayers less in the long run, and it will be over.

All of that makes perfect sense, but the DA would be looking for another job.

[molson]

Originally Posted by miked

Seems pretty silly to pursue the death penalty when you won't give them adequate representation. Just let him plead guilty and sentence him to a bunch of life terms. He won't get out, it will probably cost taxpayers less in the long run, and it will be over.

This is why I'm anti-death penalty. Not because it's inhumane or anything, but because it costs us a ridiculous amount of money for a punishment that's really more lenient that the alternative.

I don't get why people get so worked up over giving someone death - why let him have the easy way out?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

I don't get why people get so worked up over giving someone death - why let him have the easy way out?

The zero percent recidivism rate has a strong appeal.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The zero percent recidivism rate has a strong appeal.

Can't that be accomplished with life without parole?

I don't know how many convicted murders ever end up committing more crimes. But it probably doesn't outweigh the number of murderers who were aquitted because a couple of members of the jury didn't want him killed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Can't that be accomplished with life without parole?

Not without closing loopholes, and that's an inexact science at best.

See some examples at
http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/LWOP.htm

[st.cronin]

I think its high time we built a penal colony in the asteroid belt. Forced labor mining the belt for life!

[st.cronin]

dola, I am completely serious.

[stevew]

Texas would have already had this punk executed by now. The facts of the case, at least in regards to the first murder or 3, are in little doubt. For killing the judge alone, it should be an automatic death sentence. It's probably just some ploy from his crybaby lawyers to spend all his money this quickly. Then they can just appeal and say they didn't have enough cash, and hope to save this douchebags life. In cases like these, where there is so little to doubt, I can't believe justice takes so long.

[molson]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think its high time we built a penal colony in the asteroid belt. Forced labor mining the belt for life!

Forced Labor for Life = far worse (meaning better for society) punishment that a gentle, quick execution.

[miked]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think its high time we built a penal colony in the asteroid belt. Forced labor mining the belt for life!

They tried that, but it didn't work out so well for TV execs in the end.

[stevew]

Finally convicted of capital murder. Just heard it on the news.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The zero percent recidivism rate has a strong appeal.

Actually, just read this article today and I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the death penalty thing is related to the same area of the brain. I'd never once doubted that many, many, many humans love watching others suffer and oh, it feels so much more ecstatic if you can throw on some righteous indignation to justify it; I mean, you don't really like it you know, it's just justice.

Sure it is.

Anyway, this is an interesting theory.

The brains of bullies—kids who start fights, tell lies, and break stuff with glee—may be wired to feel pleasure when watching others suffer pain, according to a new brain scanning study.

The finding was unexpected, noted Benjamin Lahey, a psychologist at the University of Chicago and co-author of the study, which appears in the new issue of the journal Biological Psychology.

bully brain

Enlarge Photo

_ Printer Friendly

Email to a Friend
What's This?
SHARE
Digg StumbleUpon Reddit
RELATED

* PHOTOS: The Brain
* Harvard Brain Bank Faces Shortage of "Normal" Brains (August 28, 2003)
* Lesbians Respond Differently to "Human Pheromones," Study Says (May 8, 2006)

The researchers had expected that the bullies would show no response when they witnessed pain in somebody else—that they experience a sort of emotional coldness that allows them to steal milk money with no remorse, for example.

Previous research had shown that when nonbullies see other people in pain, the same areas of the brain light up that do when the nonbullies themselves experience pain—a sign of empathy, Lahey said.

The new research showed these areas in the bullies' brains were even more active than in the nonbullies.

But the bullies' empathetic response seemed to be warped by activity in the amygdala and ventral striatum, regions of the brain sometimes associated with reward and pleasure.

"We think it means that they like seeing people in pain," Lahey said.

"If that is true," he added, "they are getting positively reinforced every time they bully and are aggressive to other people."

(Related: "'Brain Reading' Device Can Predict What People See [March 5, 2008].)

Disorderly Conduct

In the study, Lahey and his colleagues looked at brain activity of eight 16- to 18-year-old boys with histories of lying, stealing, committing vandalism, and bullying.

These eight boys, who suffer what's clinically known as aggressive conduct disorder, were compared to a group of adolescent boys with no such histories.

The bullying group was shown a series of brief videos that depict painful situations—some accidental, such as a hammer dropped on a toe; others intentional, such as a piano lid closed on a player's fingers.

In addition to revealing activity in pleasure- and pain-related areas of the brain, the scans also showed that a portion of the brain that helps regulate emotion is inactive in bullies.

In other words, bullies lack a mechanism to keep themselves in check when, for example, a kid accidentally bumps them in the lunch line.

"We will have to develop therapies to either treat or compensate for this lack of self-regulation that we think is there and the fact that it may be positively reinforcing every time they hurt somebody," Lahey said.

New Therapies?

"I am not surprised that scientists who are working on this and doing brain imaging are finding more and more," said Marlene Snyder of Clemson University's Institute on Family and Neighborhood Life and the Olweus Bullying Prevention Program.

"I think we're just at the beginning of pioneering understanding how the brain works," she said.

"The more we know about this, the more hopeful we can all be in finding meaningful interventions."

hwwp://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/11/081107-bully-brain.html

[stevew]

Jury still must decide if gunman is to be executed
By STEVE VISSER, JEFFRY SCOTT, RHONDA COOK

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Friday, November 07, 2008

Claudia Barnes stared expressionless, with a tissue in her hand, as she listened to the 54 verdicts announced at Brian Nichols’ murder trial Friday.

Her face stayed frozen until Superior Court Judge James Bodiford had announced “guilty” on the murder counts of her husband Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes, his stenographer Julie Ann Brandau and Deputy Hoyt Teasley.

Then she smiled. It was 1,337 days since Nichols had escaped from custody at the Fulton County Courthouse and started the killing spree that rocked Georgia and the state’s judicial system until 26 hours later, when he surrendered in Gwinnett County.

The courtroom was silent except for the judge’s voice, the hum of the air conditioning and the muffled clicking of a news photographer’s camera.

Bodiford announced Nichols guilty on all counts, including the murder and robbery of David Wilhelm, an off-duty U.S. Customs agent, whom Nichols killed at a house the agent was building in Buckhead.

No one reacted — neither Nichols, his parents nor the family members of victims — during the verdicts. Bodiford had warned the audience that anyone displaying any emotion at all would be sentenced to 20 days in the Fulton County jail for contempt of court.

But after the victims’ families left the courtroom there were hugs and tears. None made any public comment, at the request of the District Attorney’s office.

Bodiford had been concerned that any displays of emotion could taint the second phase of the trial. The jury returns Monday to hear witnesses and evidence to decide whether Nichols should be executed or spend his life in prison.

“I do not believe we will be through by Thanksgiving,” Bodiford said.

The jury of six black women, two white women, two black men, one white man and one Asian man found Nichols guilty after 12 hours of deliberation and a trial that lasted 32 days, had 93 witnesses and nearly 1,200 pieces of evidence.

Nichols had pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. His case has transfixed the city, cost millions of dollars to prosecute and pay for Nichols’ defense and taken two judges to complete. Senior Superior Court Judge Hilton Fuller resigned in January and was replaced by Bodiford.

Bodiford moved the trial from the Fulton County Courthouse to the Atlanta Municipal Court building because the courthouse was the crime scene, where Nichols, while awaiting trial for rape, escaped a holding cell and went on his rampage.

The prosecution argued that Nichols was angry and seeking revenge on the judge. The defense argued that Nichols, 36, a former UNIX systems administrator who earned $80,000 a year, was suffering from a delusional compulsion, did not know right from wrong, and could not stop himself from being driven by the delusion.

Nichols considered launching a slave revolt against Fulton County, the state of Georgia, and the U.S. government, according to his attorneys and a defense psychologist. Jurors heard Nichols himself say so in a three-hour confession that was taped the day he was caught.

He said he considered Barnes his “slave master,” and all the people he killed enemy “combatants.”

Claudia Barnes was in the courtroom almost every day of the trial, taking notes. The other families also watched daily as often gripping and macabre evidence was introduced, including an audio recording of the shootings of Barnes and Brandau and the chilling screams of female staff attorney. Nichols displayed few emotions throughout, but his family at times appeared overwrought.

When the gunshots were played during the prosecution’s opening argument, his father Gene Nichols, left the courtroom. At times during her testimony, Nichols’ mother, Claritha Nichols, dabbed tears from her eyes.

Defense attorneys brought witness forward to testify how Nichol’s state of mind began deteriorating after a long-time girlfriend broke up with him and he was charged with raping her in August 2004.

Conditions in the Fulton County jail were so bad, they made his mental state even worse, a psychologist testified, to the point that, by the time he went on his spree, he was convinced he was a victim of a racist and unjust system.

The prosecution countered there wasn’t anything wrong with his mind. He was just angry and seeking revenge because he feared spending the rest of his life in prison for rape. And he was conniving liar who would do or say anything to get free.

The jury heard letters read between Nichols and a Connecticut woman, in which he laid out a scheme to escape from the Fulton County jail on Thanksgiving Day in 2006, and boasted how brilliant his plans were to catch guards sluggish after a big holiday meal.

He boasted that his trial would be in Fulton County where many were angry at the judicial system and if his lawyers picked the right jury he would be found not guilty. “My goal is a not guilty verdict,” he wrote. “All I need is the right people on the jury and I go home.”

In his closing argument Wednesday, prosecuting attorney Clint Rucker told the jury: “This defendant is a liar. He’s not mentally ill. He’s not delusional. He knows the difference between right and wrong. But he lies, he lies over and over and over again.”

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by stevew

Then she smiled. It was 1,337 days since Nichols had escaped from custody at the Fulton County Courthouse and started the killing spree that rocked Georgia and the state’s judicial system until 26 hours later, when he surrendered in Gwinnett County.

|-|3 0B\/10U5L'/ |-|4D L337 35(4P3 5|<1LL5.

[stevew]

heh, i noted that too.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by stevew

heh, i noted that too.

Heh, and the synchronicity of this...

Nichols, 36, a former UNIX systems administrator

is too much.

[cartman]

Four consecutive life terms with no possibility of parole for Nichols.

Judge gives courthouse killer life without parole - CNN.com

[SackAttack]

That is a horrifically written article. The copy editor who let that atrocity see the light of day should be strung up for treason against the English language.

Originally Posted by stevew

Jury still must decide if gunman is to be executed
By STEVE VISSER, JEFFRY SCOTT, RHONDA COOK

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Friday, November 07, 2008

Claudia Barnes stared expressionless, with a tissue in her hand, as she listened to the 54 verdicts announced at Brian Nichols’ murder trial Friday.

Her face stayed frozen until Superior Court Judge James Bodiford had announced “guilty” on the murder counts of her husband Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes, his stenographer Julie Ann Brandau and Deputy Hoyt Teasley.

Then she smiled. It was 1,337 days since Nichols had escaped from custody at the Fulton County Courthouse and started the killing spree that rocked Georgia and the state’s judicial system until 26 hours later, when he surrendered in Gwinnett County.

The courtroom was silent except for the judge’s voice, the hum of the air conditioning and the muffled clicking of a news photographer’s camera.

Bodiford announced Nichols guilty on all counts, including the murder and robbery of David Wilhelm, an off-duty U.S. Customs agent, whom Nichols killed at a house the agent was building in Buckhead.

No one reacted — neither Nichols, his parents nor the family members of victims — during the verdicts. Bodiford had warned the audience that anyone displaying any emotion at all would be sentenced to 20 days in the Fulton County jail for contempt of court.

But after the victims’ families left the courtroom there were hugs and tears. None made any public comment, at the request of the District Attorney’s office.

Bodiford had been concerned that any displays of emotion could taint the second phase of the trial. The jury returns Monday to hear witnesses and evidence to decide whether Nichols should be executed or spend his life in prison.

“I do not believe we will be through by Thanksgiving,” Bodiford said.

The jury of six black women, two white women, two black men, one white man and one Asian man found Nichols guilty after 12 hours of deliberation and a trial that lasted 32 days, had 93 witnesses and nearly 1,200 pieces of evidence.

Nichols had pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. His case has transfixed the city, cost millions of dollars to prosecute and pay for Nichols’ defense and taken two judges to complete. Senior Superior Court Judge Hilton Fuller resigned in January and was replaced by Bodiford.

Bodiford moved the trial from the Fulton County Courthouse to the Atlanta Municipal Court building because the courthouse was the crime scene, where Nichols, while awaiting trial for rape, escaped a holding cell and went on his rampage.

The prosecution argued that Nichols was angry and seeking revenge on the judge. The defense argued that Nichols, 36, a former UNIX systems administrator who earned $80,000 a year, was suffering from a delusional compulsion, did not know right from wrong, and could not stop himself from being driven by the delusion.

Nichols considered launching a slave revolt against Fulton County, the state of Georgia, and the U.S. government, according to his attorneys and a defense psychologist. Jurors heard Nichols himself say so in a three-hour confession that was taped the day he was caught.

He said he considered Barnes his “slave master,” and all the people he killed enemy “combatants.”

Claudia Barnes was in the courtroom almost every day of the trial, taking notes. The other families also watched daily as often gripping and macabre evidence was introduced, including an audio recording of the shootings of Barnes and Brandau and the chilling screams of female staff attorney. Nichols displayed few emotions throughout, but his family at times appeared overwrought.

When the gunshots were played during the prosecution’s opening argument, his father Gene Nichols, left the courtroom. At times during her testimony, Nichols’ mother, Claritha Nichols, dabbed tears from her eyes.

Defense attorneys brought witness forward to testify how Nichol’s state of mind began deteriorating after a long-time girlfriend broke up with him and he was charged with raping her in August 2004.

Conditions in the Fulton County jail were so bad, they made his mental state even worse, a psychologist testified, to the point that, by the time he went on his spree, he was convinced he was a victim of a racist and unjust system.

The prosecution countered there wasn’t anything wrong with his mind. He was just angry and seeking revenge because he feared spending the rest of his life in prison for rape. And he was conniving liar who would do or say anything to get free.

The jury heard letters read between Nichols and a Connecticut woman, in which he laid out a scheme to escape from the Fulton County jail on Thanksgiving Day in 2006, and boasted how brilliant his plans were to catch guards sluggish after a big holiday meal.

He boasted that his trial would be in Fulton County where many were angry at the judicial system and if his lawyers picked the right jury he would be found not guilty. “My goal is a not guilty verdict,” he wrote. “All I need is the right people on the jury and I go home.”

In his closing argument Wednesday, prosecuting attorney Clint Rucker told the jury: “This defendant is a liar. He’s not mentally ill. He’s not delusional. He knows the difference between right and wrong. But he lies, he lies over and over and over again.”

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by cartman

Four consecutive life terms with no possibility of parole for Nichols.

Judge gives courthouse killer life without parole - CNN.com

There are just some people that deserve to die.

Sure they may have had a horrific childhood, chemical imbalance, whatnot etc. but some people just deserve to die.

Jeffrey Dahmer, the BTK serial killer etc.

It'll be interesting reading the juror comments in the next couple days.

[stevew]

Horrible waste of money. What the fuck do you have to do to get the death penalty these days. Geez

[miked]

Originally Posted by stevew

Horrible waste of money. What the fuck do you have to do to get the death penalty these days. Geez

Amazing thing is, they could've saved all that money as he would've plead guilty to everything and taken life in prison, the same thing that he ended up getting. Was it really worth millions and potential failure, and even if was a guilty verdict, the next 20 years of appeals, just to make sure he eventually died by lethal injection? Silly.

[GrantDawg]

Don't worry, the Federal government is about to spend millions more to try and get him executed. Howard wants U.S. to pursue Nichols death penalty | ajc.com

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miked

Was it really worth millions and potential failure, and even if was a guilty verdict, the next 20 years of appeals, just to make sure he eventually died by lethal injection? Silly.

Absolutely ... if we had a decent chance at finding 12 people with enough sense to be on a jury.

Hopefully this will be the impetus to amend existing state law requiring unanimous sentencing verdicts in capital cases to only require a 10-2 vote.

[miked]

Well, that's a tough bar these days, to find 12 people that all believe that way to vote 12-0. I just don't think it's worth the millions of dollars of money to defend him, and the money for the required appeals when the state is asking for budget cuts elsewhere. Like GATech being forced to cut budgets by 10% and reducing employer health care contributions by 25%.

But hey, for angry people like you, death for somebody who didn't affect your life in any way is more important I suppose.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miked

I just don't think it's worth the millions of dollars of money to defend him, and the money for the required appeals when the state is asking for budget cuts elsewhere. Like GATech being forced to cut budgets by 10% and reducing employer health care contributions by 25%. But hey, for angry people like you, death for somebody who didn't affect your life in any way is more important I suppose.

The murder of a judge & several law enforcement personnel affects every life in the state.

As for the budget cuts, I've long favored the complete elimination of employer contributions to health care and as for the university system, I'd be shocked if there wasn't ample room to make cuts that should be made (whether those are the ones that will be made is a different matter).

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by miked

But hey, for angry people like you, death for somebody who didn't affect your life in any way is more important I suppose.

The point is deterrence to prevent someone ELSE from affecting his or anyone else's life by putting massive consequences on this type of behavior.

But your point on money spent between this and his accepted appeal is a good one.

[miked]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The murder of a judge & several law enforcement personnel affects every life in the state.

As for the budget cuts, I've long favored the complete elimination of employer contributions to health care and as for the university system, I'd be shocked if there wasn't ample room to make cuts that should be made (whether those are the ones that will be made is a different matter).

Heh, well of course there are cuts to be made. After all, in addition to teaching a bunch of Georgians, we can always ask faculty to do administrative asst work, clean floors, take care of buildings and grounds, etc. Because that's where budget cuts are coming from as people (at least in some states) tend to value education of their children enough to not cut faculty.

But as parents (or future parents) of children who are going through state education and might one day find a niche at Tech or similar state organization, I'd much rather money not get wasted on rain dances and capital punishment pursuits.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by stevew

Horrible waste of money. What the fuck do you have to do to get the death penalty these days. Geez

I rather see a person spend the rest of his life in jail than the death penalty. Always seemed like it's a tougher punishment in my eyes (unless your very old).

[molson]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

The point is deterrence to prevent someone ELSE from affecting his or anyone else's life by putting massive consequences on this type of behavior.

But your point on money spent between this and his accepted appeal is a good one.

Do you really think anyone's ever refrained from murder because of a potential death sentence v. life in prison?

And do you really think that number is higher than the number of murderers who have gotten off COMPLETELY because a one or two jurors couldn't bring themselves to take someone's life?

It's a gigantic waste of money. And a huge strain on victims.

Here in Idaho, the Supreme Court has yet again ordered a re-sentencing of a murderer on death row. So the family of the victim, now close to a decade after the crime, have to do the whole thing all over again, with the victim impact statements, etc. Idaho still hasn't managed to execute anyone in 14 years. And state government employees are now being required to take mandatory unpaid time off because of budget problems, and layoffs are surely on the way.

And what's the point? So we can gently tie this guy down, and painlessly send him off to an everlasting nap? What the hell kind of punishment is that? With any luck, his natural death will be much more agonizing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miked

I'd much rather money not get wasted on rain dances and capital punishment pursuits.

I'd much rather we not be wasting money on "students' who waste Hope money for nothing more than an extended vacation either, which in turn causes money to be wasted on both staffing & physical plant in the university system ... money which could be put to better use at GT (for example).

But I ain't holding my breath on that improvement either.

[flere-imsaho]

Agreed 100% with molson. I have no moral problem with taking someone's life as an ultimate punishment, but I continue to be against the death penalty because of a) what molson said and b) because it's not acceptable to make a mistake and put someone innocent of a crime to death (obviously not an issue in this particular case).

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Agreed 100% with molson. I have no moral problem with taking someone's life as an ultimate punishment, but I continue to be against the death penalty because of a) what molson said and b) because it's not acceptable to make a mistake and put someone innocent of a crime to death (obviously not an issue in this particular case).

This. Total agreement. I used to be for the death penalty until I really got to know how completely inept, corrupt, and plain racists our justice system is. There is no way we should be putting anyone to death.

[cuervo72]

Watching a rebroadcast of an old story from 2013, hear the name Brian Nichols and remember this thread. Good times.

(Also, timestamp bug!)