Question about cyberbullying/hacking

[Lathum]

Hoping the collective brain of FOFC could help out. I know we have several lawyers, teachers, IT people.

A friend of mine had something terrible happen to her son, lets call him Dave. He is 12 and a great kid. Another kid had a beef with Dave and this kid hacked into Daves snapchat. Apparently there is a program that makes this somewhat easy, I don't know the particulars.

The hacker is black and Dave is white as can be. The kid who hacked int Daves account then posted horrible racist things, Trump 2020, MAGA, etc...Dave and his mom had no clue until they started receiving texts with screen shots, etc...They obviously changed the password, etc...but damage done.

This is where shit gets bad. The hacker apparently showed his mom what Dave posted, that was actually posted by him, and his mom took screen shots and put them on her social media. We all live in the same town and they have a lot of mutual friends, so shit blew up fast. My friend started getting horrible messages from strangers about besting her son, she is a horrible mom, etc...

My friend contacted the police immediately, who apparently contacted the Mom about her facebook post, because it came down and the Mom called my friend. At this point Dave told his mom about the beef, and they put 2 and 2 together and figured out what happened. My friend filed a complaint with the police, including harassment against the mom, and meets with a detective today.

In the meantime my friend was able to somehow through snapchat find the IP address where the hacker posted all that shit. Sounds like once a warrant is obtained the ISP can release a name, account, whatever.

So, after that long story I am looking for any suggestions about what else my friend can do. These kids go to school with each other, play sports, etc...and her sons name is mud. She is a single mom trying the best she can and is close to a breakdown over this.

She is considering retaining an attorney, and I suggested filing a class action suit against the hackers parents. I also suggest contacting the cybercrimes division of the state police and maybe the FBI. She really wants to go for the throat. I also mentioned hiring a PI if the police can't help, and ultimately go to the media.

I also told her assuming the police figure it out and charge the kid the school should send an email to all parents explaining what happened, and the kid should have to give a public apology. I also suggested a restraining order against the kid so he can't attend the same school or attempt retaliation.

What adds an extra layer is the kid is one of 4 black kids in the whole school. My town sucks at diversity. Given out political climate it could get tricky.

Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Edward64]

I would try to understand the root cause of the animosity and could that be resolved (e.g. an apology for a long ago wrong) or was the other kid just a known jerk.

In addition to talking to school admin, other parents etc. I would also focus on making sure all the other kids in the school know it wasn't him. Whatever form of social media and get the word out.

Re: cyber-crime etc. my sense is that is escalating too much. Get police involved, get it on record, get an apology but beyond that seems disproportionate.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Re: cyber-crime etc. my sense is that is escalating too much. Get police involved, get it on record, get an apology but beyond that seems disproportionate.

This was my line of thought until I heard about the mother posting the screenshots onto her social media. That made it 1000X worse. The mother was trying to destroy him instead of calling my friend, who she knows, and being like, hey, do you know whats on your sons Snapchat?

[JPhillips]

Start with the cops and an attorney. I'd also talk to the school and see what advice they have. A restraining order may be appropriate, but everything else mentioned will escalate things. To me the question is whether they want to move on and put this to rest or whether they want punishment. They may be entitled to punishment, but it will drag this out for a long time and could end in a worse place.

[Alan T]

Unfortunately something like this quickly falls into lawyer territory. I would say they need to consult one that is 100% dedicated to their interests. And they will advise on which activities or behavior is appropriate. They also will help with the interaction with the police or other entities to get needed information.


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[Butter]

Is the hacker being black and Dave being white germane to the story at all?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Butter

Is the hacker being black and Dave being white germane to the story at all?

Yeah, I'd say so since the false postings were racial in nature.

[Butter]

I was wondering if the conflict was racial in nature somehow. Just sounds bizarre all around.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Unfortunately something like this quickly falls into lawyer territory. I would say they need to consult one that is 100% dedicated to their interests. And they will advise on which activities or behavior is appropriate. They also will help with the interaction with the police or other entities to get needed information.

I'm on board with this take.

Preferably one that has experience managing the media.

I will say that if they're not willing to go to the Nth degree with it (which it sounds like they are at this point) then it probably isn't worth the expense managing this adequately would require.

[CU Tiger]

I'm about to take the moderate position here....WTF bizaro world is this.

Given that they are 12...and we have all been idiots at 12...I would try to look for the best case scenario. A scenario where
1) Her son's reputation is completely expunged
2) The offender learns his lesson, grows and becomes a better adult out of this
3) Minimal figurative blood is shed.

Given that objective, my first blush would be for your friend to arrange a meeting with the police, the other mom, both kids and likely an attorney.

I would ask that both the kid and the mom apologize pubilicly and fully admit to what the kid did. And the apology posted to every social media site they are members of. The kid needs to specifically say he hacked and made up the false statements. The mom needs to explicitly state that she posted screen shots that she didnt know her kid faked.
In exchange for that public PERMANENT apology I'd agree not to press any charges.

Maybe both kids learn from it. Maybe they grow to be best friends. Maybe she changes two or even three lives for the better.

BTW two post scripts
1) I hope if he posted "horribly racist things" MAGA wasnt the worst of them..
2) As I age Im getting much more 'turn the other cheek' than 'eye for an eye'...Im not perfect there by any stretch... and if we were talking about adults Im much more likely to suggest scorched earth. But I was a very dumb, very, very bad 12 year old. Ive had my juvenile record expunged and pardoned (expunged after) otherwise my life would be very different today. I made a lot of bad mistakes and caused a lot of harm/damage when I was this kids age. So 'There but for the Grace of God go I....'

[Lathum]

Thanks for the input. To address a few questions.

Dave likes these kids and thought they were friends. They are awesome skaters and athletes and while Dave is also very athletic these kids are next level so he wants to be in with them. Turns out they were trying to use him to buy hit for them and such. Apparently the kid tried once before to hack Dave and he thwarted it, then talked trash thinking they were friends. The kid got pissed and this was the result.

I think race is important because of the dynamic of our town. This kid knew he would get maximum bang for his buck posting stuff like that. The fact he is black IMO makes it worse. MAGA was not the worst. The kid posted stuff like "lets kill all ni**ers, etc...really bad stuff. I know this kid well, he would never, ever do that.

I was actually just at the beach with her, she met with a detective this morning. Initially he tried to brush her off, but when she showed him the IP address he took more of an interest.Sounds like he is going to elevate it to someone more computer savvy. He also is going to place a call to the offenders mom.

I agree there needs to be a public apology and the offender and his parents need to do everything in their power to make it right.

[SirFozzie]

I hate to be the cold water on this, but law wise, I'm going to guess there's not much they're going to be able to do other than lean on the kid's mom to shame him into admitting it. You have to prove that he was in control of the IP at the time (which can be difficult because they can claim THEY were hacked, etcetera). Look at the file sharing lawsuits etcetera.

[PilotMan]

Sounds to me like the crux of it will be a defamation suit against the mother of the kid. She was the real harbinger of pain, and she should, no question, be brought to answer for that. It sounds very complex, but I would not hesitate to bring the pain until they cry uncle.

[Ironhead]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I'm about to take the moderate position here....WTF bizaro world is this.

Given that they are 12...and we have all been idiots at 12...I would try to look for the best case scenario. A scenario where
1) Her son's reputation is completely expunged
2) The offender learns his lesson, grows and becomes a better adult out of this
3) Minimal figurative blood is shed.

Given that objective, my first blush would be for your friend to arrange a meeting with the police, the other mom, both kids and likely an attorney.

I would ask that both the kid and the mom apologize pubilicly and fully admit to what the kid did. And the apology posted to every social media site they are members of. The kid needs to specifically say he hacked and made up the false statements. The mom needs to explicitly state that she posted screen shots that she didnt know her kid faked.
In exchange for that public PERMANENT apology I'd agree not to press any charges.

Maybe both kids learn from it. Maybe they grow to be best friends. Maybe she changes two or even three lives for the better.

BTW two post scripts
1) I hope if he posted "horribly racist things" MAGA wasnt the worst of them..
2) As I age Im getting much more 'turn the other cheek' than 'eye for an eye'...Im not perfect there by any stretch... and if we were talking about adults Im much more likely to suggest scorched earth. But I was a very dumb, very, very bad 12 year old. Ive had my juvenile record expunged and pardoned (expunged after) otherwise my life would be very different today. I made a lot of bad mistakes and caused a lot of harm/damage when I was this kids age. So 'There but for the Grace of God go I....'

I agree with this more than anything. Kids do stupid and awful things that deserve punishment and restitution. But I get nervous when I see terms like "go for the throat" instead of as you said looking for a resolution where "minimal figurative blood is shed." I am not sure where in NJ this happened but it would seem that if everyone goes to same school and have many mutual friends it would be easy to get the truth out. The kids seem young enough that this can hopefully be resolved without long lasting repercussions for either family.

[CU Tiger]

Maybe I mis-read.
Did the mom know her son hacked and posted the offensive stuff, or did she see the offensive stuff - think it was the kids own views - and then share it?
That's a very, very different set of actions from this corner.

[Ironhead]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Thanks for the input. To address a few questions.

Dave likes these kids and thought they were friends. They are awesome skaters and athletes and while Dave is also very athletic these kids are next level so he wants to be in with them. Turns out they were trying to use him to buy hit for them and such. Apparently the kid tried once before to hack Dave and he thwarted it, then talked trash thinking they were friends. The kid got pissed and this was the result.

I think race is important because of the dynamic of our town. This kid knew he would get maximum bang for his buck posting stuff like that. The fact he is black IMO makes it worse. MAGA was not the worst. The kid posted stuff like "lets kill all ni**ers, etc...really bad stuff. I know this kid well, he would never, ever do that.

I was actually just at the beach with her, she met with a detective this morning. Initially he tried to brush her off, but when she showed him the IP address he took more of an interest.Sounds like he is going to elevate it to someone more computer savvy. He also is going to place a call to the offenders mom.

I agree there needs to be a public apology and the offender and his parents need to do everything in their power to make it right.

Clarification - you state that Dave likes "these kids" which would imply multiple potential suspects. How do you know specifically that it was the kid of the mother who posted the screenshots to Facebook that did the hacking? Obviously you have more information than anyone else here; however, I do feel the need to at least step back here because this still seems unproven and based on a putting "2 and 2" together thought process.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Maybe I mis-read.
Did the mom know her son hacked and posted the offensive stuff, or did she see the offensive stuff - think it was the kids own views - and then share it?
That's a very, very different set of actions from this corner.

The kid hacked Dave then went and showed his mom like he had discovered it. The mom was operating under the assumption Dave had posted it. Taking it directly to social media instead of calling Dave’s mom IMO is the most egregious part since they know each other. The kid also wrote a bunch of Dave’s friends saying “your boy got caught, he’s a racist.” That’s how they found out.

They know it’s this particular kid out of the group because he specifically told Dave he was going to hack him and get him. Dave operating under the assumption they were friends was like, yeah, right.

[GrantDawg]

Cu Tiger has the best advice on this for sure. I think that would be the best solution.

[stevew]

At least Dave should get a good lesson on setting passwords out of this.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Taking it directly to social media instead of calling Dave’s mom IMO is the most egregious part since they know each other.

Correction: the victim's mom thought she knew the other mom.

Only now does she actually know her.

Burn 'em both, as thoroughly as possible. Anything else is asking for them to victimize someone else.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Burn 'em both, as thoroughly as possible. Anything else is asking for them to victimize someone else.

Kind of my thought. The kid needs severe punishment, as does the mom. With the way shit goes today whats to stop him from posting a picture of a female classmate on social media that he somehow obtained? Kids kill themselves over shit like that.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Kind of my thought. The kid needs severe punishment, as does the mom. With the way shit goes today whats to stop him from posting a picture of a female classmate on social media that he somehow obtained? Kids kill themselves over shit like that.

If your friend can get the other mom and kid to do as CU Tiger suggests and post their public apologies on all social media they frequent, I think that's sufficient. Whether they will agree to do so is another story, but if they do, that will be a hell of a humbling experience for them because their names will be mud with most people that know them.

Going beyond that IMO risks hardening both the mom and the kid and making it more likely they'd try to pull something in the future.

But the key is getting the other mom to believe and admit her son hacked your friend's son and was the one responsible for all of this. Even if she does there's no guarantee she behaves responsibly afterward, because she'll still have to confront the fact she spread lies about your friend's son without bothering to try and fact-check it first, and that level of embarrassment may preclude her from doing the right thing. Let's hope she does though and owns up to her part in this.

I'd also like to stress that what the other kid's mom did was much less egregious than what her kid did. Yeah, she should have checked-in privately with your friend first, but she's a mom and she's taking the side of her kid. The kid is the one that actually hacked an account and spread some vicious lies about your friend's son. Yeah, he's 12, but his actions were worse IMO.

[PilotMan]

bumpdate

[Lathum]

So they are changing the mom with harassment. She has to appear in front of a judge to plead guilty/not guilty. A judge looked at it all and determined she was in violation of whatever statute states she harassed a minor with intent to harm.

They are also getting a warrant to find out who owns the IP address for where the snapchap post came from.

All in all the law is going all out to get to the bottom of it.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So they are changing the mom with harassment. She has to appear in front of a judge to plead guilty/not guilty. A judge looked at it all and determined she was in violation of whatever statute states she harassed a minor with intent to harm.

They are also getting a warrant to find out who owns the IP address for where the snapchap post came from.

All in all the law is going all out to get to the bottom of it.

The mom did need a changing.

[PilotMan]

It's good to hear that law enforcement is on it and serious.

[Lathum]

So an update. The court hearing is today after an initial hearing and the mom pleading not guilty. She has since hired an attorney for todays appearance.

This is the statute

NJ 2C:33-4 - Harassment

The first line says

a person commits a petty disorderly persons offense if, with purpose to harass another

I suspect this is where they will try and get her off, by saying she wasn't trying to purposely harass Dave, just inform the community of his attitude. No idea if it will work, but I am trying to prep my friend for the likely inevitable that the mom gets off.

A positive development is they were able to get documentation from Snapchat that his account was indeed hacked, so that is nice to have.

[Lathum]

BOOM!!

Friend just called me. She just heard from the detective. They got a subpoena back from the ISP showing it came from the kid that she knew did it all along. Kid and his parents get called to the station and the detective presents the evidence. The kid breaks down and admits to everything. Justice served!

My friend now has 2 choices. Really hammer the kid and family by pressing charges and causing them to get all kinds of fines and legal fees, or have the kid work with an organization that works with troubled kids. He will have to write apology letters to Dave and my friend, community service, and counseling.

She is probably going to do the second one as she wants to be the bigger person.

Just got off the phone with her, it's the best she has sounded in weeks.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

BOOM!!

Friend just called me. She just heard from the detective. They got a subpoena back from the ISP showing it came from the kid that she knew did it all along. Kid and his parents get called to the station and the detective presents the evidence. The kid breaks down and admits to everything. Justice served!

My friend now has 2 choices. Really hammer the kid and family by pressing charges and causing them to get all kinds of fines and legal fees, or have the kid work with an organization that works with troubled kids. He will have to write apology letters to Dave and my friend, community service, and counseling.

She is probably going to do the second one as she wants to be the bigger person.

Just got off the phone with her, it's the best she has sounded in weeks.

I'm glad to see that at least some measure of justice will prevail.

I'll say this: IF her gut says there's some chance of a lesson being learned and having it stick, then the lesser route might have some benefit. If, on the other hand, her sense of it is that the kid is only sorry that he got caught then I hope she reconsiders and busts his ass as hard as possible.

[Lathum]

She definitely thinks a lesson could be learned, and the case against the mom is still pending. Hopefully this gives the judge even more reason to hammer the mom, who deserves to be punished.

[PilotMan]

They should definitely be paying ALL legal fees..no matter the options.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

They should definitely be paying ALL legal fees..no matter the options.

This.

[Lathum]

My friend is paying zero legal fees.