Alright Old Boyz, Here We Go! The OFFICIAL Football Manager 2020 Thread Thread!!!

[miami_fan]

Sorry Fozzie, we have to embrace our history!

Beta is out.

[MrBug708]

Hows the youth development look?

[miami_fan]

I did not do anything with the beta Bug but the full game is out today. I am downloading now but I probably won't get too deep into the game tonight. I am probably going to dive right into the lower leagues of a country but I will keep an eye out for the youths.

[bhlloy]

Interested to see the improvements in the ME, if any. It was a mess in the beta to say the least and the fix they made a week or so ago didn’t make things better

[bhlloy]

To follow up on the ME questions, seems like even the devs/moderators are aware it needs a ton of work: hxxps://community.sigames.com/topic/502175-particularly-egregious-match-with-pkm-reflects-the-continued-struggles-of-the-me-v2016/

Going to hold off for at least a couple of patches before starting a serious game

[MrBug708]

It's still a little slow processing, but I like some of the changes I see. I dont think I could pin much down about it, but I like what I see

[Ryche]

I think the ME is an improvement over last season. Goals are pretty varied, my strikers are scoring rather than most goals being long shots. Biggest issue for me currently is defender match ratings, which seem far too low. Well that and my board's ridiculous expectations.

[miami_fan]

Football Manager 2020 breaks new user record amid coronavirus pandemic, with almost 90,000 active players at the same time

[Icy]

I'm in a love/hate relationship with FM20.

All the game outside the Match Engine is the best ever, no big bugs, balanced, deeper than ever and so fun!

Then the ME... while at the grand scale it shows stats that match real life, it's at the cost of a dull game experience if you watch the games and being in rails, either you play the way the ME forces you, or you get weird stuff happening all the time. If you look at the tactic forum this year, there is little conversation there compared with the past, you don't see the old time contributors writing anymore, not in depth tactics discussions etc as I feel the tactical options are very limited this year, either it works or doesn't, with little in game feedback about why.

I'm in a loop, start a new save, love the preseason, set my tactics, signings etc then play a few games and no matter if I win or lose, I feel I have no control over it so I end quitting either because I win but don't feel it realistic so I think I'm exploiting the ME or I lose and get frustrated of not knowing why.

Then wait a few days, feel the urge again and start again to end quitting again and playing another game or thinking if i should go back to FM18 that at least had a fun ME.

If I visit the SI forums I get even more frustrated reading that others are having the same issues and the SI people answers are very unfortunate to say it softly, very disappointed with them as a long term fan (more than 20 years playing it). I really miss the days when it was a much open relationship with the devs there, I miss Marc Vaughan a lot among others, it was a totally different way of communicating, now it reminds more EA style sadly.

[Arles]

Is the issue with the ME that only certain tactics work (and maybe work too well)? Or is that there's just too much randomness independent of tactics?

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Arles

Is the issue with the ME that only certain tactics work (and maybe work too well)? Or is that there's just too much randomness independent of tactics?

In a high level offense was nerfed and defense boosted, so while the macro statistics look well, games are not decided now by fluid open play that is nice to watch but by set pieces and stupid/random goals in what looks an attempt to generate realistic stats.

That is why it seems that tactical decission do not matter much and that the only way to consistenly win is to play over attacking and agressive tactics, with unrealistic pressing up the pitch that pin the AI teams in their area, defeding well but not even atempting to attack. It generates the myth of human teams needing 30 chances to score while the AI can score and win from a set piece anytime.

I can go much deeper in details as I wrote about it in the oficial forums as many users did as well with similar opinions. SI team agreed (at least partially) but basically told us that is hard to balance and that they need to stop working on FM20 and we need to wait for FM21 for it to be fixed, that was said about FM19 as well.

[bhlloy]

I’d be interested in seeing that post. The last serious time I put into the game was many iterations of the ME ago (when marauding full backs who would shoot into the side netting 8 times a game from impossible angles rather than put in a simple cross were the main issue) but I certainly saw people with the same complaints you did even back then.

I will say that as frustrating as it is to lose to a fluky set piece goal when you’ve dominated, that’s kinda part of the game. I support a team who managed to get into the Prem a few years ago with that exact strategy for the last 3/4 of the season. Not to say the ME doesn’t have massive issues but I’m not sure how they can really take it out of the game without making it an untrue representation of the sport. Other lesser sims don’t have this issue because they don’t sim the game at this kind of live detail - I can understand how it’s almost impossible to balance with the expectations and how realistic they have tried to make it to be honest.

[Arles]

Icy, thanks for your response. Would you mind linking to your thread on the FM board?

[Icy]

There are plenty in the ME bugs forum, but here we discussed it a bit more, some agreeing and disagreeing until it was closed by a mod because there were similar threads

The one where I wrote, I'm Icy there as well.
Discussing FM20 Match Engine, and anything else, I suppose. - Football Manager General Discussion - Sports Interactive Community

Similar one very well presented about lack of central play and central attacking midfielders being ineffective:
LACK OF CENTRAL PLAY AND AMC UNDERPERFORMING (20.2.4) - Match Engine - AI and Tactics - Sports Interactive Community

Talk about AI teams being too defensive:
AI Managers playing low mentalities when they shouldn't - Match Engine - AI and Tactics - Sports Interactive Community

Btw I must admit I’m a hardcore player, a lot of users are probably enjoying the game without noticing anything but this is for you hardcore football fans like if FOF produced accurate stats but the plays in the PBP were not like the ones you see in TV or if despite having accurate league running stats, not any RB was running over 1000 yards (in FM20 it’s hard to see strikers scoring as much as they do in real life, while midfielders or even fullbacks score more than in real life).

Again some of us are picky about the game and sport we love, that is why I’m in that love/hate relationship, everything regarding the non in the field action is awesome, the best FM ever, but the ME is not imho, and the fact that SI said that there won't be more fixes for FM20 as they need to work on FM21 frustrates me a lot as it's the second year in a row we get the same answer around March while in the past they issued patches for longer until they were happy with the engine.

[SirFozzie]

FM20 is free on steam until 3/25 (meaning play, not purchase)

[BishopMVP]

Playing FM Touch for the free couple days. Definitely like the speed it sims at now, many of the off field improvements since I last played ('16?), obviously haven't had the chance to delve into the ME issues like an Icy has , but holy hell the board expectations are ridiculous. I started a career unemployed, said apply for any jobs & give me the first one... got offered an underachieving Eintracht Frankfurt in early December, thought awesome, big club can keep them up this year & set up a foundation for 2020-21. Board expectations don't reset I guess, so the league expectation was make European Competition (top 5 finish, when I picked up the team we were in the drop zone & had lost 6 straight), make the 2nd round of the Euro Cup (had already been knocked out prior to the group stage), and make it to the semifinals of the German Cup (had already been knocked out in the 2nd round). Added a few solid transfers that plugged holes, a couple that would start in 20-21 & going forward for me, and pulled the team up to mid-table... only to see every player start going to the media and talking about how they'd lost faith in me due to the club underachieving & then got fired because I didn't hit any of the board's expectations.

So between that, the clear ME issues that don't appear they'll be fixed, and apparently the push for micro-transaction cheats in a game I'd pay full retail instead of using as a freemium game, I guess I'll sit this one out. Too bad, it does seem more conducive to building a team as an American football type GM instead of getting bogged down in setting scouting for a dozen different guys and training for 50, but if it's going to be trying to find players to fit the tactics that work instead of being able to mold them around my preferred style & the better youth academy products I know I'll just get bored quickly.

[SirFozzie]

It's free for another week

[AnalBumCover]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

It's free for another week

During this free-to-play period, can we download custom leagues?

[Arles]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Playing FM Touch for the free couple days. Definitely like the speed it sims at now, many of the off field improvements since I last played ('16?), obviously haven't had the chance to delve into the ME issues like an Icy has , but holy hell the board expectations are ridiculous. I started a career unemployed, said apply for any jobs & give me the first one... got offered an underachieving Eintracht Frankfurt in early December, thought awesome, big club can keep them up this year & set up a foundation for 2020-21. Board expectations don't reset I guess, so the league expectation was make European Competition (top 5 finish, when I picked up the team we were in the drop zone & had lost 6 straight), make the 2nd round of the Euro Cup (had already been knocked out prior to the group stage), and make it to the semifinals of the German Cup (had already been knocked out in the 2nd round). Added a few solid transfers that plugged holes, a couple that would start in 20-21 & going forward for me, and pulled the team up to mid-table... only to see every player start going to the media and talking about how they'd lost faith in me due to the club underachieving & then got fired because I didn't hit any of the board's expectations.

So between that, the clear ME issues that don't appear they'll be fixed, and apparently the push for micro-transaction cheats in a game I'd pay full retail instead of using as a freemium game, I guess I'll sit this one out. Too bad, it does seem more conducive to building a team as an American football type GM instead of getting bogged down in setting scouting for a dozen different guys and training for 50, but if it's going to be trying to find players to fit the tactics that work instead of being able to mold them around my preferred style & the better youth academy products I know I'll just get bored quickly.

I wonder if it has to do with you being employed? I worked up with a smaller club and took over for an underachieving Everton club in Jan and didn't face that situation. I got a new set of goals (avoid relegation) that I'm pretty sure weren't the ones they started with. Maybe try starting with a lower team and then switching over. That's how I play and I've never seen what you describe

[SirFozzie]

as far as I know, ABC, yes. It's the full game, just Steam allows you to play it without owning it.

[illinifan999]

My 22 year old star striker who has led La Liga in goals in his first 2 seasons came out as gay. Not really sure what that means in the game, but thought it was an interesting addition in the game. Here's hoping the rest of the team supports him.

[SirFozzie]

Apparently Manchester United are tired of people not hating them for new reasons and has decided to sue Sega and SI Over not using the proper crest to represent them in FM (which they'd have to pay to use, of course).

They also want to go after the fact that it allows mods.

Sega and SI say the use of the club’s name is “a legitimate reference to the Manchester United football team in a football context” and has been used in Football Manager and its predecessor Championship Manager since 1992 “without complaint by the claimant”.

The companies have accused the club of trying to “prevent legitimate competition in the video games field by preventing parties not licensed by the claimant from using the name of the Manchester United football team within such games”.

At a preliminary remote hearing on Friday, Manchester United’s barrister Simon Malynicz QC said “the name ‘Manchester United’ is one of the world’s most valuable and recognised brands”.

He said the money clubs made from licensing their names and logos was “very significant” and “the products and services that are licensed by the claimant benefit from an association with the club’s winning culture and its brand values”.

Malynicz argued, in relation to the alleged infringement of the trademark on United’s logo, that “consumers expect to see the club crest next to the name Manchester United ... and this failure to do so amounts to wrongful use”.

He accepted this argument was “somewhat novel, and certainly in the context of video games, but it is certainly arguable”.

The barrister asked Mr Justice Morgan to allow the club to amend its claim against Sega and SI to include allegations involving “the practice of supplying ‘patches’ or ‘mods’, essentially downloadable files containing replica trademarks, which consumers then incorporate into the game”.

Malynicz argued Sega and SI “encouraged” the use of patches supplied by third parties “by promoting the patch providers in various ways and, of course, they directly benefited from it by avoiding the need to take any licence and enjoying increased sales of their game”.

Roger Wyand QC, representing the defendants, opposed the club’s application to amend the claim.

In their written defence to United’s claim, Sega and SI said: “The claimant has acquiesced in the use by the defendants of the name of the Manchester United football team in the Football Manager game and cannot now complain of such use.”

Wyand argued the “simplified” club badge used in the game was “one of 14 generic logo templates that is randomly chosen by the Football Manager game engine each time a new game is started” and “clearly indicates that the use of the [logo of] Manchester United is not licensed by the claimant”.

Sega and SI said preventing them using Manchester United’s name “would amount to an unreasonable restraint on the right to freedom of expression to restrain the use of the words ‘Manchester United’ to refer to a team in a computer game”.

[bhlloy]

Ugh... the big FM sites have been taking down their facepacks already due to the threat of litigation, based on this I expect logo packs to be the next to go - and this could have a really negative impact on sports games in general if it opens up companies being sued for mods or even allowing their games to be moddable to put in real names/logos.

United really are awful.

[Miller Time]

Anyone interested in an extra copy of the 2020 game? I bought one of those humblebundle package of games and I already own it through steam. DM your email address and I can send you over the code to redeem through steam.

[Miller Time]

Game has been given away FYI.

[JPhillips]

Even when this game isn't perfect, it's such a great achievement. Just three years into my York City career and the game is sooo immersive.

There's a guy I've never heard of, Jack Bridge, that I absolutely hate now because he whined about every damn training plan I gave him.

I ran up 107 points in the Vanarama National league and only won due to goal differential because Stevenage didn't lose from Boxing Day until the end of the season.

That same Stevenage team, with a 36 point advantage over third place Bromley lost the tourny final after an early red card that the Stevenage manager went off about.

There's just so much memorable content from matches to signings to training to board interactions, etc.

btw- The York FC jerseys are great. I'd love one without the ads.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Ugh... the big FM sites have been taking down their facepacks already due to the threat of litigation, based on this I expect logo packs to be the next to go - and this could have a really negative impact on sports games in general if it opens up companies being sued for mods or even allowing their games to be moddable to put in real names/logos.

United really are awful.

Yeah, it's been awful. Some people still have the packs they've downloaded in the past so there's a world where you can find someone dropbox you some -- I have to find mine -- but it's been really bad for the game given how much those bring to it.

The real names mods thing is hard to sue for anymore with fantasy sports proliferating, the real issue is their IP with logos/team names. Still stinks, though FM has lots of licenses compared to a generic game.

[Ryche]

Been trying to survive a season with Lancaster City in the Vanarama North the past two versions, finally did it today on my 5th overall attempt, winning on the final day to jump two teams and claim the last safe place.

[Thomkal]

So the 2020 went surprisingly free at Epic this week. I, a practical soccer neophyte, had tried a version of the game several years ago but was quickly turned off because there really was little in the way of guiding a newbie not into just the game itself, but the sport as a whole. So my question would be is this version more newbie friendly?

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

So the 2020 went surprisingly free at Epic this week. I, a practical soccer neophyte, had tried a version of the game several years ago but was quickly turned off because there really was little in the way of guiding a newbie not into just the game itself, but the sport as a whole. So my question would be is this version more newbie friendly?

Nope, it's not, at least for the full version. I was very much in your boat when I first got into FM, give it a shot while it's free. Once you start figuring things out it gets very immersive.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Ryche

Nope, it's not, at least for the full version. I was very much in your boat when I first got into FM, give it a shot while it's free. Once you start figuring things out it gets very immersive.

Yeah I did grab it since its free, but maybe I'll check some Let's Play's before installling it.