Product placement in books?

[QuikSand]

First of all, I deserve what I got. I had some driving to do, and wanted a mindless page-turner type to listen to during the drive time, and the library offerings were pretty weak, so I ended up with a James Patterson crime novel. I read a couple of his earlier ones that weren't bad, but he's basically dreadful (maybe the Thomas Kincaid of the literary world, barf), and this one lives up to that impression. Not the point, but I acknowledge up front I have no real room to gripe.


Anyway - my real question is this. In "reading" a recent James Patterson thriller, I thought it a little unusual that there was such an extended scene where the hero character and his family go out to shop for a new car. Then a later scene where he goes back to buy it. And then another when he is driving it ans reveling in the wonder of the new car. Each with prominent mentions of the make and even the model of the car.

I couldn't help but think that this might actually be the same thing we see these days in movies -- where a company pays for the right to have its product used prominently and favorably in the movie. I don't know if anyone really recoils at this sort of thing (any more, at least) but it certainly happens in movies... so why not in other media too? Hell, the book is total crap anyway, it's not like we're ruining a masterwork somehow.


Anyway... anyone in the know about this sort of thing? Commonly known practice? Is Patterson a groundbreaker here? Or am I just imagining things, and the specificity was just part of what passes for "flavor" in such a book?

And, if it truly is product placement... is there some point at which I/we ought to be offended by this practice?

[Draft Dodger]

I guess it would be next in the natural evolution of things, but man that's really depressing.

[larrymcg421]

It depends. Sometimes avoiding product placement is worse than going ahead and using it. If someone picks up a 12 pack of Joe's Cola at the store, that annoys me just as much as someone mentioning a brand name product over and over again. Whichever way the author/director goes, I don't care as long as it's worked seamlessly into the story. For example, Cast Away had major product placement with FedEx, but it didn't bother me because it made sense for the story.

[rowech]

I refuse to read an author that somehow can write a book a month.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's product placement almost certainly, a little Googling turned up a certain amount of controversy about his obvious use of it actually.

Then again, Patterson was once an J.Walter Thompson (ad agency) CEO. And he is the best-selling author in print today by an absurd margin, to the extent that one out of every 35 books sold in the world last year had his name on it. If there was ever a guy who was a prime candidate to do product placement in a fiction novel, it'd be him. Although best I can tell the practice is more common in the UK than here in the US so far.

Also found an interesting article on him in a UK paper from this past weekend.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If there was ever a guy who was a prime candidate to do product placement in a fiction novel, it'd be him.

That's basically my feel about it, too... without the detail you found.

In case it helps with digging and you are actually interested, the specific book is "Cross" and the product is the Mercedes-Benz R350.

[Drake]

Is this any different than writers having patrons (to whom the book was dedicated and whose views would be reflected positively in the plot/conversation)? This was SOP in the writing game for generations.

The problem here seems to be less that product placement existed -- because, honestly, writers have been doing this sort of thing for a long time for free in an attempt to create versimilitude -- than that it was executed clumsily. (About which I won't say that it surprises me given the author or anything else, because I've never read James Patterson.)

[Buccaneer]

I primarily read history. Most of the "products" mentioned (like a Springfield Rifle) you can't buy anymore.

[Drake]

I read many technical manuals as part of my job. Talk about crazy product placement.

[Shkspr]

I was against product placement in books for years until a mystery writer who bases her novels locally had her main character buy the new Sue Grafton novel at my bookshop on page 109.

I'm now ambivalent.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

In case it helps with digging and you are actually interested, the specific book is "Cross" and the product is the Mercedes-Benz R350.

Oh, well, that is it. I'm never buying a Mercedes-Benz R350.

Anyway, Jon's on the nail here - Patterson is about the only bankable guy out there who a company might make a significant deal with. I mean, I can see someone like Chuck Palahniuk doing this fairly easily, but less to make money from the ad deal than to garner eyeballs for his work by gaining notoriety from the concept of product placement.

In general, though, I think an author who places specific products in his work does so to evoke character. Stephen King, for example, is very tuned in to popular trends, and so his decision to have a character turn on their Zune rather than an iPod would be far more likely to represent a character note for the person using the device than it would indicate extra income from Microsoft.

[Buccaneer]

I don't understand the quip about Patterson selling 1 out of every 35 books (I never heard of him so it's not a personal thing). In checking wiki, he has sold a total of 150m books. In 2007, he sold 16m books, saying 1 out of every 15 hardcovers sold. Why are these pertinent points when you have JK Rowling's DH selling 11m in the first 24 hours and Nora Roberts (whom my wife reads all of the time) outselling Patterson in the same time period?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I don't understand the quip about Patterson selling 1 out of every 35 books (I never heard of him so it's not a personal thing). In checking wiki, he has sold a total of 150m books. In 2007, he sold 16m books, saying 1 out of every 15 hardcovers sold. Why are these pertinent points when you have JK Rowling's DH selling 11m in the first 24 hours and Nora Roberts (whom my wife reads all of the time) outselling Patterson in the same time period?

{shrug} From the article I linked .. He currently outsells JK Rowling, John Grisham and Dan Brown put together. . The 1 in 35 quote was something I ran across while looking up the product placement stuff, it stuck in my head so I mentioned it. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Buccaneer]

That doesn't make any sense. JK Rowling has sold over 400m alone, while "In total, Patterson’s books have sold an estimated 150 million copies worldwide" (according to wiki).

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

{shrug} From the article I linked .. He currently outsells JK Rowling, John Grisham and Dan Brown put together. . The 1 in 35 quote was something I ran across while looking up the product placement stuff, it stuck in my head so I mentioned it. Nothing more, nothing less.

While Rowling's HP7 broke 24 hour sales records last year, I'd estimate that that one day accounted for 80-85% of her sales for the year.

Grisham hasn't been Grisham for a few years now. The Innocent Man, Playing for Pizza, and The Appeal sold well compared to the competition, but not against his own past performance.

Dan Brown hasn't published a book in five years.

I imagine that Patterson's work DID outsell the three of them last year.

I would guess that Nora Roberts likely does a fraction of the business in translation that Patterson does, so he probably sold more worldwide than she did. For all the titles Nora Roberts puts out, several are reprints, and it doesn't take a staggering number of copies to hit the bestseller lists these days. For what it's worth, I devote twice as much shelf space to Patterson backlist as to Roberts backlist. I bet he outsells her, too.

But Patterson is right about one thing: American publishers are in the Middle Ages when it comes to marketing. Sales figures can mean anything you want. It's all so Byzantine.

[Mustang]

I was overwhelmed by the number of product placements while reading a Sears Catalog the other day...

As for in books, doesn't bother me much if it helps create the imagery in a scene. I'd rather them use a real product rather than, "Bob just bought a new Drof Gnatsum"

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It's product placement almost certainly, a little Googling turned up a certain amount of controversy about his obvious use of it actually.

Then again, Patterson was once an J.Walter Thompson (ad agency) CEO. And he is the best-selling author in print today by an absurd margin, to the extent that one out of every 35 books sold in the world last year had his name on it. If there was ever a guy who was a prime candidate to do product placement in a fiction novel, it'd be him. Although best I can tell the practice is more common in the UK than here in the US so far.

Also found an interesting article on him in a UK paper from this past weekend.

Really? Wow. I'm a little saddened that he's the best selling author around.

[Passacaglia]

Slight tangent, since it's not books:

Recording Superstars to Remake Iconic Doublemint(R), Juicy Fruit(R) and Big Red(R) Gum Jingles - SmartBrief

[GrantDawg]

Let me guess....it was a cop that did it? Isn't that the standard Patterson plot? It was the partener, chief, sheriff, FBI agent. It is not "who done it" but "which cop."

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

I was against product placement in books for years until a mystery writer who bases her novels locally had her main character buy the new Sue Grafton novel at my bookshop on page 109.

I'm now ambivalent.

Did you thank her for that?

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Did you thank her for that?

Profusely.

As an aside, this series centered around a very cute redheaded amateur sleuth whose bad luck with men was a plot point as the series progressed. I casually joked after publication that what the character really needed was a torrid love affair with the hunky local bookstore owner.

Turns out she based the character on her daughter. And the sleuth's reluctant partner was based on the daughter's fiancee. So we can guess where that series ended up.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Drake

I read many technical manuals as part of my job. Talk about crazy product placement.

That's nothing...you should see those new math texts trying to get folks to adopt Asian twins.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

Profusely.

As an aside, this series centered around a very cute redheaded amateur sleuth whose bad luck with men was a plot point as the series progressed. I casually joked after publication that what the character really needed was a torrid love affair with the hunky local bookstore owner.

Turns out she based the character on her daughter. And the sleuth's reluctant partner was based on the daughter's fiancee. So we can guess where that series ended up.

In the clearance aisle?

[Lathum]

In another Paterson series the lead drives an explorer so I am guessing it is no coincidence. I don't see why it would offend anyone, it's just words on a page so if someone is offended they need to get over themselves.

I also do what quick does with PAtterson, his books are great for long trips.

[watravaler]

Product placement is everywhere...it certainly is depressing...

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by watravaler

Product placement is everywhere...it certainly is depressing...

[Drake]

Heh. Well played.

[QuikSand]

So... recently have been reading the two novels (so far) from Steig Larsson, beginning with The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo. Incidentally, I really have enjoyed the first book, and am around halfway through the second and really liking him as a write a lot. Very excited about his long future ahead in the authoring business, yes indeed I am. (sigh)

Anyhow... it's Swedish and I guess that explains the maddeningly ever-present coffee. The people seem to drink coffee in just about every scene, it's downright laughable. But maybe that's just how they roll.

However, the issue for this thread is the Macintosh computers. Once again, the gushing, tech-filled discussions -- way more than necessary -- about the computer someone needs to buy for her work, and how the MacBook's specs are just so wonderful and so forth... it really rings of pay-to-play stuff, to me. And this author is non-American, and had the rep of being a crusading journalist who dabbled in commercial crime novels on the side. Doesn't seem like as good a fit as Patterson the obvious douchebag who is making a mockery of the profession at pretty much every turn anyhow.

Just made me think of this thread and discussion. Steig shilling for Mac? I guess it could be worse.

[Shkspr]

I doubt it. Apple would not have had any reason to offer cash to a writer who had as yet to publish a crime novel. Larsson had only begun to explore publication at the time of this death, as I recall. It's possible, I suppose, that an editor added in the passages once the book generated buzz (and the hubbub around Larsson's will lends a little credence to the idea that the family is out to make a buck), but I'm wondering if Larsson just really liked Macs.

As an aside, Steig Larsson is one of the coolest names I can imagine for a crime novelist.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

I doubt it. Apple would not have had any reason to offer cash to a writer who had as yet to publish a crime novel. Larsson had only begun to explore publication at the time of this death, as I recall. It's possible, I suppose, that an editor added in the passages once the book generated buzz (and the hubbub around Larsson's will lends a little credence to the idea that the family is out to make a buck), but I'm wondering if Larsson just really liked Macs.

As an aside, Steig Larsson is one of the coolest names I can imagine for a crime novelist.

Personally, I've always wondered if Apple pays Hollywood for this sort of thing. How many times have we seen a scene pan across a desk to someone sitting behind a computer laptop and seeing (not Dell or HP but) the Apple logo? It seems like it's between 75% and 100% of the time.

I would be even more concerned if Apple was paying Hollywood to show Dell or HP in a negative light on screen.

Who knows though, I doubt any of these deals would ever see the light of day.

[Cap Ologist]

I heard JeeberD was in talks to start including product placement in his posts.

[Northwood_DK]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

So... recently have been reading the two novels (so far) from Steig Larsson, beginning with The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo. Incidentally, I really have enjoyed the first book, and am around halfway through the second and really liking him as a write a lot. Very excited about his long future ahead in the authoring business, yes indeed I am. (sigh)

If you like the books I can highly recommend the movie as well. Män som hatar kvinnor (2009)

The second movie was released this week in Scandinavia to great reviews again.

Flickan som lekte med elden (2009)

[Grammaticus]

I always like the fact Stephan King would reference real songs and products in his stories. It never felt like endorsements or product placement. Now, what would happen if the pure evil character in one of his books liked a certain type of product extensively? Could the company sue for portraying their product in a poor manner?

I also liked the Grisham references to places (similar to the bookstore ref. above) in or around Oxford, MS. I graduated from Ole Miss and I like the flavor that creates. When he included the rendezvous ribs restaurant and the Peabody hotel in Memphis during the Firm, it made Memphis feel real. Also, people drink "Coke" in the south, its part of being in the south. If you write a book and the story happens in Atlanta, you should have characters drinking Coke products and sweet tea.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Personally, I've always wondered if Apple pays Hollywood for this sort of thing. How many times have we seen a scene pan across a desk to someone sitting behind a computer laptop and seeing (not Dell or HP but) the Apple logo? It seems like it's between 75% and 100% of the time.

I would be even more concerned if Apple was paying Hollywood to show Dell or HP in a negative light on screen.

Who knows though, I doubt any of these deals would ever see the light of day.

In TV and films product placement deals are very common. Of course Apple is paying for placement as are dozens or hundreds of other companies. Most of the time I don't see anything wrong with it, but I admit to being frustrated when the shot seems set up to perfectly frame a product logo.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

Profusely.

As an aside, this series centered around a very cute redheaded amateur sleuth whose bad luck with men was a plot point as the series progressed. I casually joked after publication that what the character really needed was a torrid love affair with the hunky local bookstore owner.

You're on fire in this thread from this to the Lexapro thing

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I primarily read history. Most of the "products" mentioned (like a Springfield Rifle) you can't buy anymore.

Bucc's latest book, brought to you by the reliability of dirt(TM) and the power of rocks(TM)

SI

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

So... recently have been reading the two novels (so far) from Steig Larsson, beginning with The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo. Incidentally, I really have enjoyed the first book, and am around halfway through the second and really liking him as a write a lot. Very excited about his long future ahead in the authoring business, yes indeed I am. (sigh)

Anyhow... it's Swedish and I guess that explains the maddeningly ever-present coffee. The people seem to drink coffee in just about every scene, it's downright laughable. But maybe that's just how they roll.

However, the issue for this thread is the Macintosh computers. Once again, the gushing, tech-filled discussions -- way more than necessary -- about the computer someone needs to buy for her work, and how the MacBook's specs are just so wonderful and so forth... it really rings of pay-to-play stuff, to me. And this author is non-American, and had the rep of being a crusading journalist who dabbled in commercial crime novels on the side. Doesn't seem like as good a fit as Patterson the obvious douchebag who is making a mockery of the profession at pretty much every turn anyhow.

Just made me think of this thread and discussion. Steig shilling for Mac? I guess it could be worse.

Have you considered that he might be passionate about his own Mac and reflectst that in his writing. The same could apply to Patterson. Maybe he just bought a Mercedes that he really loves. The difference today might be that editors aren't forcing them to remove the references. Although I'll admit with Patterson it seems less likely.

[Dutch]

I remember reading a cold-war spy novel ("The Red Fox") where the guy was gushing all over his computer because it had dual floppy-disk drives.

[flere-imsaho]

Dual floppy drives were AWESOME back in the day.

[Dutch]

The novel was a current best-seller while I was reading it, so yes, I know!

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

Dan Brown hasn't published a book in five years.

I imagine that Patterson's work DID outsell the three of them last year.

I think the key word here is currently. When that article was written, neither Rowling nor Brown had a bestselling book. Patterson probably had four. Both Rowling and Brown have way outsold Patterson with their blockbusters, but not currently.

[Shkspr]

Which would probably be why I wrote what I did.

It's a fairly moot point, anyway, I suspect. The performance of the last half dozen or so titles has been lackluster for Patterson. He's still going to move a ton of copies, sure, but sellthrough is off, anticipation is waning, and I'm hearing that people want new authors to follow. Right now he's no more special than a dozen other authors - just more prolific.

And as an update, Dan Brown just published a new book. A quick perusal of local competition puts it at 50-66% sellthrough so far of the biggest buy of the year. It's probably worth a 10% bump in sales for the week, and should continue to pull a statistically signifigant effect on the marketplace through Christmas. What it won't do is sell more hardcovers than Patterson did this year...but it'll outsell any five of this year's eight Patterson HCs that you care to name.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

So... recently have been reading the two novels (so far) from Steig Larsson, beginning with The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo. Incidentally, I really have enjoyed the first book, and am around halfway through the second and really liking him as a write a lot. Very excited about his long future ahead in the authoring business, yes indeed I am. (sigh)

Anyhow... it's Swedish and I guess that explains the maddeningly ever-present coffee. The people seem to drink coffee in just about every scene, it's downright laughable. But maybe that's just how they roll.

However, the issue for this thread is the Macintosh computers. Once again, the gushing, tech-filled discussions -- way more than necessary -- about the computer someone needs to buy for her work, and how the MacBook's specs are just so wonderful and so forth... it really rings of pay-to-play stuff, to me. And this author is non-American, and had the rep of being a crusading journalist who dabbled in commercial crime novels on the side. Doesn't seem like as good a fit as Patterson the obvious douchebag who is making a mockery of the profession at pretty much every turn anyhow.

Just made me think of this thread and discussion. Steig shilling for Mac? I guess it could be worse.

Digging up bones of an old thread, since I am reading these books now. This subject (product placement) really jumped out at me as well during the first book. He really did seem to be trying to sell Apple products in the first book. It was actually pretty funny (and dated) when he had to explain what a ipod was.

It does seem strange that he would have had a product placement deal before he had a publisher. Wouldn't make much senses, would it? Of course, it almost seemed like back in the 80's Clancy had a product placement deal with defense contractors trying to sell their latest technology as well. It may just be that Steig was a Microsoft-hater.

The books are excellent reads. I read the second one in about a day cause I just couldn't put it down. I am on IR right now, so I'll likely finish book three today or tommorow. I want to watch the original movies as well. I think all three have been made, with the American versions being produced now.

Reading the first book, I didn't get the controversy over his death and possible "murder, cover-up" stuff. Now in the third book, I see were that is coming from. You do get an interesting picture of politcs in Europe. I think it hilarous how we think our poltics are mean spirited, divisive, and our government is so over-reaching. Communist, socialist, skin-heads, openly-racist, immigrant-bashing, poltical assinations, sex-scandals etc. seems to be just side footnotes in the book of politic as usual in Sweden. We are rank amatuers.

[sterlingice]

Holy thread necromancy, bot!

SI

[GrantDawg]

Reading my post on this....we are no longer rank amateurs.

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[sabotai]

This bot has severely misjudged the age of the average FOFCer.

[albionmoonlight]

We've got a youthful spirit, Sab, and the AI picked up on that.

[QuikSand]

fun thread

old bots (lurked for more than 2y before posting for the first time)

miss Bucc

[Qwikshot]

“American Psycho” is full of product placement though I’m sure not because the author was paid to do so.

The Eclipse series writer loved Volvo to put in the stories and I think got an endorsement deal out it.