Adventures in Health - Fasting Edition

[Radii]

I think I'm going to start updating every other day instead of daily, just once for every ADF "cycle". As it becomes a bit more routine there is less to say.

I am still intending to start my next multi-day fast next Wednesday, Sept 13th. I will update that daily.

[Radii]

Tuesday Weight: 314.3
Blood Sugar: 109

Weight went up (or stayed the same) for a 3rd day in a row. I did eat a good bit on Monday, maybe I went over TDEE. I had some prepared pulled pork I bought from costco and I just dumped what was left on my plate, I have no idea how much it was, just wanted to get rid of the leftovers. I also finished the day off with some Halo Top ice cream which is wonderful stuff but I really should be careful about keeping it in my house very often


Wednesday Weight: 311.8
Blood Sugar: 85

Fasted on Tuesday. I had a little upset stomach in the morning, and didn't sleep great, so I felt really shitty to start my day. Things got better throughout the day though and it ended up just being a normal fasting day. I got tired early and slept early and ended up having a very good night's sleep. Woke up this morning to 2+ pounds having whooshed away after those three days of stagnation, so that's neat.


I think I've been saying "6 weeks til TwitchCon" for a full week now but today it is actually exactly 6 weeks to go til TwitchCon. Stalls can always happen (though they are supposed to happen less on a fasting regimen), but getting below 300 in the next 6 weeks feels likely. Could I get to 290? That's about 3 pounds a week.

[Radii]

I've been using Wednesday as official weigh in day for a "6 week challenge" that I'm participating in on the keto subreddit, so I'll do that here as well.

6/22: 334.5
8/1: 328.1
8/8: 326.3
8/15: 312.1 (after 5 days of fasting, artificially low)
8/22: 321.7
8/30: 316.3
9/6: 311.8

[Subby]

Looking great! So close to getting below 300!

[Young Drachma]

Go Radii!

[Brian Swartz]

Quit making me look bad!! I mean, great job, keep going you sadistic bastard you.

[Radii]

haha thanks guys.

Cholesterol results still not back.

I'm having a Coronary Artery Calcium Scan on Friday. This is a measure of calcium found in your arteries and can detect cardiovascular damage/risk before symptoms. Between the way I've eaten most of my life, diabetes and family history with heart disease if this can help me determine if I'm already at higher risk for a heart attack younger than most I'd like to know it. Its not so much related to diet changes as me getting obsessive and proactive about everything once I start trying to get healthy.

I'm also having a DEXA scan next Tuesday. body composition, lean body mass vs fat, is the result of this for me. Its one of the more accurate tests available but not perfectly accurate. Discussions about protein being burned along with fat during fasting and lean body mass loss came up on a low carb myfitnesspal forum that is closed and that I like an awful lot. Everything I've read about keto and fasting both say that its more sparing of lean body mass than regular diets because of the fact that in ketosis you are burning fat for fuel and have easier access to your stored fat b/c of a bunch of metabolic pathway shit that I don't understand. But I love data and can afford to indulge, so lets to get a DEXA scan now, and lets get another in 3 months, or maybe after 30 pounds lost, and track changes. Wheee.

EDIT:

Insurance doesn't cover any of this. Artery test is $50, DEXA scan $75. Artery test does incur some radiation, its a CT scan. I don't know if its something I would want to get regularly but I've had very few x-rays/CT scan stuff over the years so I think this one is fine. DEXA also involves some radiation, but I found some numbers saying that you have to have 180 DEXA scans to equal the amount of radiation from one set of dental x-rays. So I'm totally ok getting that re-checked at regular intervals for my own curiosity

[Radii]

Thursday Weight: 311.5
Blood Sugar: 97

I ate on Wednesday, so after 3 days of weight going up or stalling we're back to a "normal" (?? - still dunno what's normal) pattern of hanging about even after eating and losing a lot on fasting days. I had a great day of work and on Thursday's I have both guitar and voice lessons so I went out for those. Once I got home I was insanely tired and just fell asleep for two hours. I'm used to getting more tired on fasting days and going to bed earlier, but that was a bit much. Woke up after the extra long nap and was alert and awake for awhile though.

I had lots of thoughts about eating and really had a desire to not only eat but to order a damn pizza or something. That was all psychological though (as opposed to the fucked up state my body gets in with what feels like very real sugar cravings, or with the sickly feeling that comes from low blood sugars where i AM likely to crave), and I was able to ignore it easily.


Friday Morning

Weight: 308.9
Blood Sugar: 64
Chest: 51.5
Waist: 54.5
Hips: 49.5

Another huge whoosh in weight today, first number I've seen below 310. Blood sugar is 64 after a fasting day but no low blood sugar symptoms. Basically everything feels great. I also decided to take measurements for the first time in awhile. The last time I did those numbers were 53/56.5/50. A reminder that I suck at making my measurements consistent but that is the type of improvement I'd be hoping for with the weight loss. I can't tell a difference in the mirror, so its good to see numbers. I have had people tell me they can tell a difference and I do believe them. Just hard to see in yourself.


Today is an eating day. I have my Coronary Artery Calcium scan at 2pm today and probably won't eat before then. The only requirement for it is no smoking and no caffeine though. I'm pretty nervous about it. Its supposed to be a pretty darn good measure of heart disease and risk. Not a 100% definitive answer, but I treated my body so badly in my 20s and early 30s, so it certainly crosses my mind that if my luck were bad I'd be exactly the type of person to have a heart attack much younger than most. Knowing is better than not knowing though.

[Radii]

I had my CAC test today (the cardiovascular scan), results not available til monday though. DEXA scan is on Tuesday. I'll just make one giant post Tuesday detailing cholesterol, CAC scan, and DEXA scan and revisit it as needed as updated numbers come in.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Radii

I had my CAC test today (the cardiovascular scan), results not available til monday though. DEXA scan is on Tuesday. I'll just make one giant post Tuesday detailing cholesterol, CAC scan, and DEXA scan and revisit it as needed as updated numbers come in.

Can't wait to see these. Hoping for some good news!

[corbes]

Great work and results so far, Radii, and looking forward to the health results. Best wishes!

[rjolley]

Great job, Radii. My wife and I are going through a healthier living and weight loss journey ourselves. Thanks for sharing yours. The information has been very helpful.

[Radii]

Thanks so much everyone

Saturday:

Weight 309.0
Blood Sugar 97

On Friday I had my cardio scan in the afternoon and wasn't hungry yet, so I didn't eat anything before I left the house. I ended up eating out after the test, a salad and chicken wings. I didn't eat anything small beforehand. I've read that it shouldn't be necessary to do anything special after such short fasts (only about 40 hours or so), but, I have had some bad stomach issues on my first couple ADF days where I went straight into my normal 900'ish calorie meal after 36-42 hours of not eating. So I'd been eating a serving of walnuts a little while before making breakfast. Friday - no light anything before the salad/wings. For dinner I made soft tacos with some ground bison meat from costco, something I've never had before. That night my stomach was all fucked up and I just felt genearlly completely shitty. Whether it was b/c I didn't break the fast gently, or b/c of what I ate dining out, or from something with dinner i have no idea.


Sunday:

Weight: 307.9
Blood Sugar: 64

Saturday was a fasting day. I woke up Saturday still feeling pretty poorly. Walked to CVS and bought some pepto. I ended up going about my day like normal, after debating calling off a scheduled twitch stream, and debating just going to bed super early instead of doing some work I had planned in the evening. Also debated eating and maybe just resetting for a few days before getting back to it. But in the end decided not to do any of that and made it through the day alright.



Today is an eating day. I haven't been up long, but I'm feeling fine so far, so hopefully Friday night/Saturday was just some one-off thing. I'm going to make sure to drink a good bit, as I haven't been drinking quite enough the past few days, and will eat normally, and am expecting everything to be normal today.

[Radii]

I'm in a discord server for fasting, support/information group basically. Three people in there are doing 25+ day fasts successfully, one just finished a 30 day fast and posted before/after pics. Insane and impressive stuff.

On the other end of the spectrum, a very different kind of "impressive":

"is it bad to eat ice cream cones (no ice cream) during a water fast? It only tastes like plastic and it doesn't fill me up. Is that still okay?"

Its possible that this person is trolling but based on other questions/conversations I've seen them in, I would currently bet against it, and I think this was an honest question.

[Radii]

Monday check-in:

Weight 308.4
Blood Sugar 90

So I had felt really poorly Friday night and Saturday. I was debating ending ADF for a few days if I continued to feel badly Sunday. If I were to be getting sick, I want to be eating to give my body the energy to fight off anything. But Sunday was indeed better, I was extra hungry and probably ate a bit over TDEE. Another possible sign that maybe I had a brief bug and was over it.


Tuesday check-in:

Weight: 305.9
Blood Sugar: 64

Another huge drop after a fasting day. I had a lot to do yesterday and as soon as I stopped in the evening felt insanely hungry, but it passed. All good.




So, I unexpectedly have friends in town Friday and Saturday. Found out yesterday. They're going to be staying with me. I kinda owned NOTHING (well, very little) when I moved up here, and have not fully furnished the house and have just bought enough in many areas for myself. I'm totally not prepared for guests. I have a lot of things I want to get done Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday nights before they arrive. Since I find myself less than 100% in the evenings on fast days, and find myself sleeping hours earlier than usual on fast days, I may not fast anymore the rest of the week, to make sure I have the time and energy to get everything done.


I'm not 100% sure though. Today is a normal eating day, and I'll try to get as much work around the house done this evening as possible. If I make enough progress I might fast tomorrow anyway. There's really no urgent need to push myself, other than the vanity of wanting to lose every pound possible before TwitchCon in October. But I'm obviously in a REALLY good groove right now with this, so if I can continue through one more cycle I'd like to.


I was also intending to start my next extended "fast for as long as I can" fast tomorrow. But I of course want to hang out and eat with my friends this weekend, so that's getting pushed to next week.

[Radii]

August/September Test Results

Lets talk data. I saw my new primary care doc towards the end of August. I requested a lipoprotein NMR test for cholesterol. It provides more details than the basic cholesterol panel. When I had this test done back in NC, I would also get the "regular" numbers, HDL/LDL/Triglycerides. Unfortunately, I didn't get those results here. I don't think triglycerides are measured at all in the results I got. The NMR test breaks down "number of particles" and "particle size". Risks are assessed based on those numbers.

Large HDL: 4049 (HIGH RISK: A reference range of 4334-10815 is given, but optimal is 9386+, high risk is less than 6996)
LDL Particle Number: 1498 (MODERATE RISK. Optimal is less than 1260, high risk >1538)
Small LDL: 389 (HIGH RISK: optimal 162, high risk > 217)
Medium LDL: 408 (HIGH RISK: optimal <201, high risk > 271)


The only reference I have to when I was on keto in the past was that my LDL Particle Number was around 1900. So that's neat. But yeah, even without "regular" cholesterol numbers my cholesterol is shit and hopefully these things all improve with weight loss and activity.

The shitty thing is that I *am* comfortable with the HDL and Triglyceride results on the normal test. It's LDL that I have a problem with the basic number, and value this additional data. Oh well.



CAC Scan - Coronary Artery Calcium Scan

The result of the test is usually given as a number called an Agatston score. The score represents a combination of information that reflects the total area of calcium deposits and the density of the calcium.

A score of zero means no calcium is present in the heart and suggests a low likelihood to develop a heart attack in the future. When calcium is present, the higher the score, the higher the risk of attacks in the long term. A score of 100 to 300 — moderate plaque deposition — is associated with a relatively high risk of heart attack or other heart disease over the next three to five years. A score greater than 300 indicates very high to severe disease and heart attack risk.

My CAC Score: 0

YAY! I'm at the youngest age where the test is even potentially useful, and for your average even semi-healthy adult its probably not useful til 50+, but I've been obese most of my adult life, I've lived on fast food for most of my adult life, and been sedentary most of my adult life. One parent and two grandparents diabetic, one grandparent with heart disease. So while an average 40 year old SHOULD have a score of 0 easily, I really needed to let go of the nagging wonder about whether or not I have already catapulted myself to my doom.



DEXA Scan

You already know I'm fucking fat, so no need to be too embarrassed here, but still. Its fucking embarrassing.

My weight on the scanner was 304.4 pounds.

Fat Mass: 146.9 pounds
Lean Mass: 149.9 pounds
BMC (bone mineral content): 8.5 pounds
Body Fat %: 49.7%

WOO BOY. That means that I have likely very recently... within the past week maybe, dipped below 50% bodyfat.

DEXA scans will log a higher bodyfat % than most any other measure. Hell, my stupid scale this morning said my bodyfat % was 39%.

I've got a followup in exactly 3 months, December 12th, for another test. Proponents of Keto say that a ketogenic diet does an extremely good job of sparing lean body mass during weight loss. Proponents of fasting say that fasting naturally spares as much protein as possibly to save lean body mass. As I'm currently losing weight at a pretty darn rapid rate, I'm extremely curious to see how my body fat % changes over time, but for now, most importantly, what happens to my lean mass over time.

One other interesting note. I have a mirror, and I can look down, so I already knew that I carried most of my weight in my gut, and that's really bad for lots of measures showing belly fat is the worst kind of fat. But whatever, the numbers are hilarious:

Upper Body: 59% fat (~100 pounds of fat/69 lean)
Lower Body: 36% fat (~31 pounds of fat/54 lean)

fat guy legs! super strong to carry all the weight higher up.

WHEW. That's all for now. The CAC scan if I were to eat healthy and lose weight I probably wouldn't need again until I'm 50, though I'll ask my primary care doc about that next time I see him. There is not insignificant radiation involved after all.


Cholesterol should get tested again in November, primary care followup is then. Dexa scan in 3 months. We'll refer back to this post to see how each progresses.

[Radii]

I did end up eating yesterday. I'll just end up eating keto through Sunday with friends in town, so we'll pick this back up early next week. Since I've been losing so much more than expected with ADF so far, I'm very curious to see if eating for 6 days in a row causes any changes.

Also, yesterday was weigh in day:

6/22: 334.5
8/1: 328.1
8/8: 326.3
8/15: 312.1 (after 5 days of fasting, artificially low)
8/22: 321.7
8/30: 316.3
9/6: 311.8
9/13: 306.1

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Radii

I'll just end up eating keto through Sunday with friends in town

Yeahhhhh, about that. I ended up getting off keto for 3 1/2 days. Stress eating and ordering a pizza Thursday night as I desperately went about trying to finish getting my house ready for guests, and then just eating whatever Friday/Saturday while they were here.

Sunday is where the mental gymnastics begin. We were initially going to go out for breakfast before friends had to drive back out. But they ended up making plans to meet someone for an early lunch part-way through the drive, so we didn't do breakfast and just chatted for awhile at the house before they left. So instead of saying "great, make some bacon and eggs, go buy a steak tonight, get back on keto in a really enjoyable and easy way", I end up thinking to myself "wellllll, I had already pretty much committed to one last cheat day when we were going to go out for breakfast..." and end up at a super shitty chinese buffet.

Since I've been losing so much more than expected with ADF so far, I'm very curious to see if eating for 6 days in a row causes any changes.

Too bad I didn't stay keto for this, as I remain curious.


This morning I weighed 312.5 pounds. 7 pounds of mostly water weight gain for someone my size just getting off keto is normal. If I only ate keto and didn't start back up with fasting, I would expect to drop back to 307'ish pretty quickly from the water weight. But right now I'm most interested in weighing less than 300 pounds when I step on a plane to fly to LA next month, not in those types of experiments.

Once I hit "submit reply" here I'll be going to make myself some bacon and eggs, tonight I'll probably go buy a steak and cook it for dinner.


Getting off plan for 3-4 days is really not a big deal. It will almost certainly happen for a week at TwitchCon as well. Getting back on before shit spirals out of control is the important part, so lets do that.

I intend to eat today and tomorrow just to re-establish keto, and then fast on Wednesday. Whether that will be where I pick up ADF again, or whether I go forward with my original plan to begin an extended fast on that day to see how long I can go, not sure yet.

[Brian Swartz]

Giggling at the phrase 'mental gymnastics'. Very accurate for this kind of thing. You got this as long as you get back into the groove; it'll just be a barely-noticeable speed bump in time.

[Radii]

Two days back on keto, so all is well. My weight settled in at 314.2. That's still a normal water weight gain after getting back on carbs for a bit. I'm eating today, as I have some food that will almost certainly go bad if I don't. I'll fast tomorrow, but am still undecided if I want to ADF for a bit or just go straight into an extended fast.

[Radii]

Weight: 311.0
Blood Sugar: 114

I'm definitely back in ketosis now after 3 days of low carb eating, rewarded with a 3 1/2 pound drop in water weight. I still don't feel great, I'm not sure if I'm going to fast today or not.

[Subby]

Good job getting back on track. That is literally the hardest thing about eating for the best. It's natural to go off the rails.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Subby

Good job getting back on track. That is literally the hardest thing about eating for the best. It's natural to go off the rails.

Thanks!

It really is. Once I get in a groove I can stay keto for a very long time, but every slip up feels really dangerous. There is no way I'm going to stay keto at TwitchCon for an entire week, and Thanksgiving and Christmas are coming up too. I've got to be able to navigate that and stay on track.

When I first got off track I talked about it in a fasting discord server that I'm in (discord is similar'ish to slack, that's basically just a live chat fasting support group type environment), and I talked to two close friends of mine that have been really supportive and promised to send them pictures of everything I ate on Monday and Tuesday. Of course, nothing stops me from just... not doing that, or lying, or whatever, but in this instance it helped.

[Radii]

Weight: 306.8
Blood Sugar: 105

I fasted yesterday, after being 100% certain I was back in ketosis. I lost 4.4 pounds, 3.5 of that is likely water weight, given the 0 calorie intake some fat too. The lowest weight I saw before I got off track last week was 305.9. I'm almost back to where I was, I'm quite pleased about this.

I... don't really have a plan now. I think I'm going to fast today as well. I'd been intending to start an extended fast before last week's distraction anyway. So, I guess I'm doing that?

I read something yesterday about metformin inhibiting gluconeogenesis, the process of converting (basically) protein into energy. The vast majority of energy for me on keto comes from fat and ketones, but there's still a little of this going on. Does this explain me needing to quit my last extended fast on day 3 with low blood sugar symptoms? Maybe! I'm going to try not taking my metformin during this fast, lets see if that makes anything different.


I've got a couple "high quality, organic" chicken carcasses in the freezer, I'm going to make chicken broth this evening and will have a bit every day to see if that can help me feel less shitty over the next few days of fasting. My last food was Wednesday night around 10:30pm. So I'm 37 hours in now. My record is 5 days, I'd hit that Monday night if I can make it. ~80 hours to go.

[Radii]

Weight: 305.1
Blood Sugar: 80
Current fasting duration: 63 hours

I was really freaking hungry a lot yesterday, but got through it, and hunger was really the only issue. I was actually solidly alert and stayed up pretty late (compared to my alternate day fasts where I had been finding myself getting tired very early compared to normal). I decided to try having a small amount of coconut oil in my green tea in the evening, along with a bit of artificial sweetener b/c I actually find the tea to taste pretty crappy without it. My hunger spiked like CRAZY but once that passed I felt like I perked up big time. I added less than 100 calories in the coconut oil, but I'm not sure if that is enough to mess up autophagy and other fasting benefits. Obviously ingesting 100 calories or less means that a good bit of the weight loss from yesterday should actually be fat. Hopefully about 3/4 of a pound of fat a day given my weight and estimated TDEE and stuffs.

Anyway, I'm currently feeling just fine, I'm about to go play music on Twitch for 3 hours which I *really* couldn't do if I felt like shit or couldn't focus, so I'm very happy so far.

My last fast ended late on day 3 with a bad feeling of low blood sugar. I'm really hoping that not taking my metformin will prevent that from happening. Lets see how the rest of the day goes.

[Radii]

Fasting Duration: 88 hours (3 1/2 days)

Weight: 300.7
Blood Sugar 63

So I'm past that 3 day point where i had really bad low blood sugar symptoms the last time I attempted an extended fast. Ditching the metformin maybe made a difference? Or maybe my body is just adjusted to the lower blood sugars from ADF so its not giving me all the warning signs.

Days 4 and 5 were very very difficult on my only fast that went this long, the 5 day one in mid august. So far today I'm feeling good. I did have another cup of tea with sweetener and coconut oil in it yesterday, again less than 100 calories in. Its possible that messes with autophagy, but the insulin/IR stuff and obvious weight loss should roll on just fine. I'm pleased so far.

Tomorrow I'll be under 300 pounds, but based on my experiences so far I expect to re-gain a bunch of this once I end my fast, so I won't be "safely" under 300 for a bit. I'm still looking forward to it though.

[Radii]

Fasting Duration: 108 hours (4 1/2 days)

Weight: 299.5 pounds
Blood Sugar: 61

Day 4 was muuuuuuch easier than the only other time I've gotten this far. I have a work deadline today and put in about 5 hours of work after the early slate of NFL games yesterday and was just fine for the most part. I had a mug of chicken broth in the afternoon, a cup of tea with the same sweetener and <100 calories of coconut oil in the evening. Twice during the day I did feel a bit poor, I felt kinda sluggish around 4pm, that's when I made the chicken broth, I dumped some extra lite salt in the broth for some electrolytes. Later in the evening I got a pretty bad headache. Downing some extra water, making my tea, and drinking a few large swigs of pickle juice helped that subside after an hour or so and I felt fine the rest of the evening. Pickle Juice (and pickles themselves) have tons of sodium, so I usually keep a giant jar of pickles around while eating keto.

Its neat seeing a number under 300 on the scale, but if I were to have to end this fast today, I'd easily gain some water weight back to go back over 300.

In the afternoon on day 5 is when my longest fast fell apart. That day I just started feeling like complete garbage and wasn't able to fix it. So far today I feel 100% fine, I need to be able to focus for this work deadline, and right now I am completely able to like on any normal day, I'm not dragging in the slightest. We'll see what happens throughout the day. I don't want to look too far ahead, but I'm starting to get my hopes up that this might last awhile and bring about some really great results.

Note that I didn't mention hunger at all in my recap of yesterday. I did get hungry a couple times, but it was not a significant issue at all.

[Subby]

Incredible results. Amazing to me that you can even function after going that long without eating solid food.

Woohoo!

[rjolley]

Congrats! Keep up the great work.

[Radii]

Thanks Subby and rjolley!

Fasting Duration: 132 hours (5 1/2 days)

Weight: 297.4 pounds
Blood Sugar: 63

I was able to focus on work fully yesterday and that was great. In the late afternoon, I got this really intense feeling of very nervous energy. My last fast that ended on day 5 the same thing happened. That day I took a long walk on an extremely hot day to try to deal with it, came home and crashed, completely drained, and couldn't function anymore and called off the fast.

Yesterday I took a walk as well, but it wasn't as hot and I didn't try to burst out all of the extra energy. I just thought I should move around and do someting and see if it would help. I also asked specifically about this in the fasting discord that I participate in, others that have fasted for 20+ days haven't experienced the same thing, but the general suggestions were something to do with stress/anxiety and suggestions for deep breathing/relaxation/lie down. So when I got home I did some deep belly breathing which is great for relaxation... even though I really don't think that this was just anxiety manifesting itself. But that's still never a bad thing to do.

Regardless, this time I didn't completely crash, and things returned to normal after an hour or so. It was just a rather weird sensation.

I did some reading:

https://idmprogram.com/fasting-physiology-part-ii/

Protein conservation phase – >5 days – High levels of growth hormone maintain muscle mass and lean tissues. The energy for maintenance of basal metabolism is almost entirely met by the use of free fatty acids and ketones. Increased norepinephrine (adrenalin) levels prevent the decrease in metabolic rate.

So maybe for me this was simply a weird spike in adrenaline.

Growth hormone is known to increase the availability and utility of fats for fuel. It also helps to preserve muscle mass and bone density. Secretion is known to be pulsatile, making accurate measurement difficult. Growth hormone secretion decreases steadily with age. One of the most potent stimuli to growth hormone secretion is fasting. Over a five-day fasting period growth hormone secretion more than doubled. The net physiologic effect is to maintain muscle and bone tissue mass over the fasting period.

The increase in growth hormone is another one of the reasons fasting is said to have "anti-aging" benefits. Neat.


Anyway, other than that one instance, which I was able to manage, yesterday was pretty standard and pretty easy.


So this is longer than I've ever fasted before. Many people once they get past 5 days find it to be smooth sailing for quite some time. I read an account of a 7 day fast from someone on the myfitnesspal low carb forum who had an easy time on days 4-6 and crashed on day 7 and had to stop. We shall see what happens now for me!

[Subby]

The relationship between fasting and growth hormone secretion seems almost too good to be true. Is this a generally accepted fact or is it something that has been observed but needs more study?

[Radii]

Fasting Duration: 157 hours (6 1/2 days)

Weight: 295.4
Blood Sugar: 60

I like how my blood sugar has stabilized in the low 60s and that I feel completely fine that way.

I was hungrier yesterday, and really thought about food a lot. But I was also bored. Yesterday was a pretty light day after the deadline rush of Monday, so i just didn't have a whole lot i had to do. I guess I ended up sitting around dreaming about food instead of making myself be productive But there were no physical issues of any kind. I felt fine all day.

Last night I slept much better and that is clearly helping today. If I make it til 10:30 tonight I'll hit a full 7 days fasted!!! I'm pretty amazed at how this has gone so far.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Subby

The relationship between fasting and growth hormone secretion seems almost too good to be true. Is this a generally accepted fact or is it something that has been observed but needs more study?

https://www.dietdoctor.com/fasting-and-growth-hormone

The "Fasting to increase growth hormone" section references a few actual studies.

In 1982, Kerndt et al published a study of a single patient who decided to undergo a 40-day fast for religious purposes.

But our concern here is HGH. It starts at 0.73 and peaks at 9.86. That is a 1,250% increase in growth hormone. A shorter 5 day fast gives a 300% increase. All this HGH increases without drugs.

This is another study referenced in that dietdoctor entry:

Fasting enhances growth hormone secretion and amplifies the complex rhythms of growth hormone secretion in man.

The 24-h IGHC (micrograms per minute per milliliter) increased
after 1 d of fasting (2.82±0.50 vs. 7.82±1.12, control
vs. day 1; P = 0.0009) and remained elevated on day 5
(8.75±0.82). The pulsatile component (Fig. 2) of GH release
followed a similar pattern with an increase on day 1
(2.07±0.47 vs. 5.74±0.78, control vs. day 1; P = 0.0013) but
no further increase on day 5 (4.25±0.67). In contrast, although
there was a strong trend in the nonpulsatile component of GH
release to increase on day 1, no significant change was noted
(0.75±0.11 vs. 2.08±0.53, control vs. day 1; P = 0.10). By day
5, however, nonpulsatile GH release was markedly enhanced
(4.50±0.75; P = 0.0002).

I haven't tried to rabbit-hole past this yet I don't know what pulsatile vs non-pulsatile is, but these results seem to make it sound like growth hormone was very clearly increased in general. That's the conclusion made by the article linking to it as well. This only had 6 subjects, it should be noted.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1548337

Here's the last study referenced in that dietdoctor article that seems to show similar results over 2 days of fasting. The full article is not referenced in this one.

This increase in growth hormone is given as a reason (THE reason, perhaps?) that lean mass is not decimated during fasting.

[Radii]

just a quick note to say that i made it through the rest of the day with ease and have now officially been fasting for a week, WOO!!

[Radii]

Fasting Duration: 182 hours (7 1/2 days)

Weight: 293.2
Blood Sugar: 54

That blood sugar took a little dip this morning, but I still feel ok, and I've seen others report the same.

Yesterday was the easiest day yet. It was a wasted day, I got sucked into a few conversations online throughout the day and hardly did any work. Oops. I did take a walk in the afternoon and streamed music for three hours on twitch and everything was totally fine.

Last night I stayed up very late to catch up on league of legends worlds (which is in china, damn timezones), so I have not slept enough today, we'll see how that effects me.

[Radii]

Fast Duration: 205 hours (8 1/2 days)

Weight: 290.6
Blood Sugar: 56

Yesterday was rough. A few years ago before I got into physical therapy and mindfulness and got a lot of my issues sorted out I was going down a fairly bad path, and felt under a ton of stress all the time, I developed a nervous tic that was pretty bad/annoying and was stress related. It mostly went away once I got those issues under control. Yesterday afternoon that nervous tic started happening non stop. I brought it up in the fasting discord and got a response of "oooo, that's a cleansing process, just let it happen!"

There is a tendency in some things like this that can reach "fad status" and seem to go against the norm to not see any negatives ANYWHERE. In this case EVERYTHING is "healing" or "cleansing". Nah man, sometimes your body tells you that's all for now, simple as that. There is something to "cleansing" though. For someone like me who gained weight over a very long period of time and who has been fat for a long time, there's a lot of shit stored in fat cells that's been there for decades, and unusual responses ARE possible when some of that gets released. When I first started having deep tissue massage in physical therapy after having let my back tighten up for a decade of sitting + inactivity, there were a couple times where - an hour after a massage - I would have a crazy out of nowhere emotional reaction, a huge wave of sadness or something. I discussed this with my psychologist and she said that is a thing that definitely happens to a lot of people and the idea that you are "releasing" some emotional shit that was going on that got stored up whenever the physical problem started is actually a thing. I'm good with that theory.

So there's SOMETHING to the idea of "cleansing", but at the same time, its not the answer to everything. You know what else happens during a fast? Your cortisol levels go up. Cortisol = stress hormone. So maybe I've just hit my limit to what I can handle this time around as far as the hormonal changes that come during a fast.

I had to go do a very small bit of stuff in the yard last night, like 10-15 minutes of work outside, and I was just overwhelmingly tired after it. Because of the earlier stress reaction? Or because this is my body telling me that its time to end the fast?


I've dealt with a few issues on this fast but most of them were temporary (no longer than 1 hour). This was quite different. In the end, I decided to just go to bed early, and see if things are different today. So far today I feel fine, but, my experience with fasting so far is that when I'm gonna have issues, they're going to come later in the afternoon or early evening.

If anything happens today, that will be my signal to end the fast.

[Radii]

Alright, fast over. 210 hours is the final count! I'll eat not very much today, slowly reintroduce some foods, and over the next week or so we'll see where my weight settles in. I hope I got low enough to stay under 300 for good, but either way, this has been pretty awesome! I'll get back to ADF as soon as it feels reasonable to do so. My last two extended fasts I felt an INCREDIBLE amount of hunger on the 2nd and 3rd days after breaking the fast, and i'm going to go a little slower breaking this one due to the duration.

You can fuck yourself up breaking a fast. Google "refeeding syndrome". So you want to re-introduce foods slowly. I had a cup of broth an hour ago, and then had a handful of walnuts that I chewed up way better than i normally would heh. Most recommendations say to go with juices and stick with liquids on the first day, but I'm more interested in breaking my fast with Not-Carbs to limit the initial insulin response. Since I've actively been keeping my electrolytes up, the insulin stuff is really the only thing I'd worry about.

The odds of problems are very small for a fatass like me. I've seen lots of people talking about breaking a fast with a steak or a pizza and they just get the shits really bad. But still, trying to do things right

So I may not post daily for the next few days, I'll report on water weight gain, and once I get back on ADF we'll pick up the every other day posting there.


My initial goal for twitchcon was to get under 300, I think that's a guarantee now unless I have some kind of awful blowout. If I can get back on ADF in a reasonable amount of time I think its very possible to get to 290 before that trip now!! (my flight out is on October 18th)

[Brian Swartz]

How's October going?

[Radii]

I failed to account for the MASSIVE amount of stress and anxiety I would feel leading up to my trip. Two weeks before the trip I had to write down a to-do list of things to accomplish before I left, and I immediately felt sick. I stopped sleeping more than 3-4 hours at a time and was a nervous wreck. I don't really understand why, I went last year and it was great, but the "anticipation anxiety" was real. I was off and on with keto during that time period. The trip was amazing, but I did stay off keto there too.


I didn't avoid updating here during that b/c I wasn't doing well though. I'm pretty sure I'm not going be active here anymore. I may start a blog somewhere on the fasting stuff since I'm still very much all in on making tons of progress over the winter. Or maybe I'll come back here to update once a month or something

I'm currently at 312. I'm not going home for Christmas or Thanksgiving. But the hype with all the musicians at TwitchCon has me looking at starting to make some weekend trips over the winter to find people to play with and to continue to improve. But I'm only going to do that if I can stay on keto for the duration of a short trip like that.

We'll see about a Dec 1 checkin or thereabouts

[Subby]

Hope all is well my man. Check in if you get the chance.

[Radii]

I'm still in the same spot here, figured I'd give a very brief update since I decided to log in for something

My weight has shifted between 305-315 for most of the last 4 months. At this point I feel like its entirely psychological. I can lose weight with fasting, and I can lose weight with calorie reduction when its done via a low carb diet. My doctor is pleased because I have been on keto about 75% of the time over the last four months, so my bloodwork numbers look great, but my weight isn't dropping because when I'm off track I'm a train wreck calorie-wise.

I feel like the #1 thing I need to work on in my life is not turning to food for comfort or in times of stress. In the last 4 months I have cut my mother 100% out of my life after a string of major incidents with her, have spent a month travelling, and have spent $2000 in three different stretches at the vet eventually and unfortunately ending in putting my cat to sleep a few days ago. My way of coping with these events is the current story of my weight loss efforts - because my way of coping with these things is with food.

Its funny, because I had sort of recognized that before I stopped posting here - by stating a few times that was really looking forward to the winter because I expected it to be a nice, boring time with no distractions where I could focus heavily on work and weight loss.


When I've been off and on with keto I've approached things a few different ways, sometimes ignoring fasting and just wanting to get steadily back on keto with calorie restriction for awhile, and sometimes jumping right back into fasting. As far as whether it keeps me on track, it doesn't *seem* to matter.

I have decided that longer fasts are not for me at this time. That the "alternate day" fasting can work very very well for me. Even with my overall weight unchanged, I did set a goal for 2018 to fast for 75 total days this year. I have fasted for 12 so far over the first 3 months, but never two days in a row. Those fasts are all in the 32-42 hour range, I believe I'm getting some benefit from that even with my volatility otherwise.


The one thing I can say is of the 30'ish pounds I lost last year, for all my struggles, I haven't re-gained it. That's a positive. But at some point I can't just sit at 305-315, gotta keep moving in the right direction.

[Dantooine98]

^^ any updates on this? It's great to know that you've maintained your weight. Do you think 5.2 fasting diet is effective for a beginner or it should be longer? I want to do this to detoxify my body and lose weight.

[ketomanco]

Originally Posted by Radii

I did end up eating yesterday. I'll just end up eating keto through Sunday with friends in town, so we'll pick this back up early next week. Since I've been losing so much more than expected with ADF so far, I'm very curious to see if eating for 6 days in a row causes any changes.

Also, yesterday was weigh in day:

6/22: 334.5
8/1: 328.1
8/8: 326.3
8/15: 312.1 (after 5 days of fasting, artificially low)
8/22: 321.7
8/30: 316.3
9/6: 311.8
9/13: 306.1

That was helpful. Thanks!