2020(1) Tokyo Olympics

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Edward64

FWIW

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

The article I quoted above said ...

And let's see if it happens. She is going to try, like she did in the all around when she couldn't.

I love the people who would be afraid to even to begin to try to do a tenth of what she does for fear of injury criticizing her for not risking severe injury.

[GrantDawg]

So weak...

Simone Biles won nationals w/broken toes in both feet, worlds w/a kidney stone, and has carried the burden of being a face of sexual assault survivors as a national institution failed to support them

Half of y'all yelling about "toughness" can't handle wearing a mask in Wegman's

— Kavitha A. Davidson (@kavithadavidson) July 27, 2021

[bronconick]

Won't defend her all around gold from 2016 on Thursday. Have to wait and see if she can compete next week in individual events.

[Ksyrup]

Logging on to Twitter each morning: pic.twitter.com/bySrJthXrL

— Ellie Hall (@ellievhall) July 28, 2021

[GrantDawg]

Interestingly, gymnastics have a special term for the "yips", called the "twisties". It is actually very common, and happens to many top level gymnast. There is history of women getting badly hurt when trying to compete while suffering from them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...okyo-olympics/

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[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by tarcone

And she quit this Olympics. So we should celebrate the success and ignore the failure?

It would be her loss not to participate anymore, not yours.
If you care for her, you should be concerned about her well being at all times, not only these 2 weeks every 4 years only when she wins a gold medal, but also when she's struggling.

[larrymcg421]

I'm sorry a sexual assault survivor isn't mentally strong enough for some of you.

[Ksyrup]

The thing is, it's not like she "quit" in the sense that her spot was vacated and we gave up a chance to medal. She took herself out and allowed someone else to compete who at that very moment had a better chance to help the team than she did.

I'm sure there are pitchers who suddenly can't throw strikes who are stubborn enough to want to stay out on the mound walking/hitting people until they get it right, but I'm thinking that's probably not in their team's best interests.

[albionmoonlight]

Yup. She stays in, folks yell at her for being selfish.
She gives up her spot to help her country, people yell at her for being weak.

No win for her, so I'm glad she did the right thing.

[Ksyrup]

I suppose the only thing that would have saved her (aside from faking an injury, I guess) would have been her coach taking the bullet by saying they pulled her.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I suppose the only thing that would have saved her (aside from faking an injury, I guess) would have been her coach taking the bullet by saying they pulled her.

That's probably how this type of situation was handled in most of the history of sports.

I'm reading (OK listening to) to Jackie McMullen's basketball history oral history book. It's interesting how many times going back to the 50's and 60's a player left a game, or didn't go back into a game, because they were pissed off, the coach was mad at them, they were too tired, they were hungover, whatever (probably mental-health related issues connected to some of those things). It was always reported as an injury. There were entire retirements attributed to personal issues by players of the day, where the wikpedia page still says, "injuries lead to retirement."

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by molson

That's probably how this type of situation was handled in most of the history of sports.

I'm reading (OK listening to) to Jackie McMullen's basketball history oral history book. It's interesting how many times going back to the 50's and 60's a player left a game, or didn't go back into a game, because they were pissed off, the coach was mad at them, they were too tired, they were hungover, whatever (probably mental-health related issues connected to some of those things). It was always reported as an injury. There were entire retirements attributed to personal issues by players of the day, where the wikpedia page still says, "injuries lead to retirement."

No doubt. I was thinking the same thing. There is probably many injuries that led to late scratches of athletes that where actually mental health but attributed to physical injuries.

[henry296]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The thing is, it's not like she "quit" in the sense that her spot was vacated and we gave up a chance to medal. She took herself out and allowed someone else to compete who at that very moment had a better chance to help the team than she did.

I'm sure there are pitchers who suddenly can't throw strikes who are stubborn enough to want to stay out on the mound walking/hitting people until they get it right, but I'm thinking that's probably not in their team's best interests.

One of my first parallels was Rick Ankiel in the playoff game when he had 5 wild pitches. That was a mental obstacle that prevented physical execution.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I suppose the only thing that would have saved her (aside from faking an injury, I guess) would have been her coach taking the bullet by saying they pulled her.

Nothing would have saved her. You have a successful black woman who was sexually assaulted at a young age. The prototype of what those on the right side of the culture wars hate.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by molson

That's probably how this type of situation was handled in most of the history of sports.

I'm reading (OK listening to) to Jackie McMullen's basketball history oral history book. It's interesting how many times going back to the 50's and 60's a player left a game, or didn't go back into a game, because they were pissed off, the coach was mad at them, they were too tired, they were hungover, whatever (probably mental-health related issues connected to some of those things). It was always reported as an injury. There were entire retirements attributed to personal issues by players of the day, where the wikpedia page still says, "injuries lead to retirement."

And we know that it is not limited to back in the day either. We call it "personal issues" or a "personal family matter" nowadays and call it a day.

[Izulde]

This thread is pretty much confirming why I put tarcone on my ignore list a long time ago and never had any inclination to change it.

In many ways, gymnastics is a sport wholly separate from others in terms of its physical and mental demands and what can go wrong. The article GrantDawg linked is a decent gloss of some of the issues that can arise.

538 had a very interesting article today proposing the rethinking of how we consider and train in women's gymnastics. It's a longform piece that raises some interesting points worth considering:

Time For The End Of The Teen Gymnast | FiveThirtyEight

[PilotMan]

That girl is a national hero and should be treated as such.

[GrantDawg]

Lol...

Ah yes, if there’s one thing Michael Jordan wouldn’t do, it’s quit in his prime because of a personal trauma https://t.co/un8Skd8MJU

— Jason Bailey (@jasondashbailey) July 28, 2021

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

That girl is a national hero and should be treated as such.

Yes, because being a quitter is absolutely a national tradition that should be praised.

She's the literal opposite of a hero, a fucking snowflake that is highly representative of much that's wrong with the current generation and the nation in general. She's a fucking disgrace.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yes, because being a quitter is absolutely a national tradition that should be praised.

She's the literal opposite of a hero, a fucking snowflake that is highly representative of much that's wrong with the current generation and the nation in general. She's a fucking disgrace.

You literally disrupted your own travel plans because you couldn't handle wearing a piece of cloth on your face for 5 minutes. Not sure someone that weak should ever call someone a snowflake.

[CrimsonFox]

I seriously don't get the Simone thing. I really don't get it....

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I seriously don't get the Simone thing. I really don't get it....

There's some things about her that are obvious to the eye that people don't like.

[NobodyHere]

Because no white athlete has ever been criticized before...

[RainMaker]

I'm pretty sure all the dudes who have been pushing white supremacist shit for the last couple of years are just huge gymnastics fans. Has nothing to do with gender, race, and being sexually abused. I can remember all their anger at Kevin Love for dropping out of the Olympics a week before.

[GrantDawg]

"Ypu know what I love more than shooting my AR-15 out of the bed of my pick up truck? Uneven bars."

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[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yes, because being a quitter is absolutely a national tradition that should be praised.

She's the literal opposite of a hero, a fucking snowflake that is highly representative of much that's wrong with the current generation and the nation in general. She's a fucking disgrace.

She's 100 times the American hero you are. Let me know the next time you can succeed at her level while representing the county.

Otoh, your response is the least surprising thing ever. The door to the county is over there.

[larrymcg421]

The person calling a sexual assault survivor a "snowflake" reported me for a post where I apparently insulted him and hurt his feelings. It's the only report I've ever had on this forum.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Because no white athlete has ever been criticized before...

Damnit, why do you always bring up race !!!

[RainMaker]

Kevin Love dropped out a week before over mental health issues and had to be replaced by Javale McGee because no one else was available. Not a peep from the same crowd about that. Any idea why?

[tarcone]

The only thing I would say is different for me is that Love did it before the games and was able to be replaced.

Its about timing. Had Biles dropped before the games, I would have been disappointed and sad that she wasnt competing.

[GrantDawg]

Tarcone, she tried to go. That was the whole point. So now you are saying she shouldn't of even tried? That is some how better? I think you are just looking for a reason to critize her.

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[tarcone]

Not at all. I am a fan. Surely she knew she wasnt quite right, she stated that it had been a tough year. She wanted to retire when the Olympics were over and had to wait a year and it took its toll. Okay, then let the other girl who missed the team by one person step in.

Waiting until the championships is terrible. Had Love dropped out of the gold medal game, he would have gotten the same shit, probably more because he is already not liked. He just did it better by dropping before the games.

I still think there is an ulterior motive that will come out after the games.

[Brian Swartz]

Yeah the Love situation is completely apples to oranges. A lot of people don't think Love should even have been on the team to begin with. He certainly isnt' considered the best in the world at what he does, whereas Biles is. .

[JPhillips]

I don't like how they edit the gymnastics footage to make it appear that everyone is competing on the same event at the same time.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Not at all. I am a fan. Surely she knew she wasnt quite right, she stated that it had been a tough year. She wanted to retire when the Olympics were over and had to wait a year and it took its toll. Okay, then let the other girl who missed the team by one person step in.
:
I still think there is an ulterior motive that will come out after the games.

I lean towards this opinion. But do want to hear the full story. For instance, I can easily believe she expressed some doubts before going to Japan but coaches/teammates encouraged her to stay on etc.

It was also weird to me she dropped out of the team event but "indicated/implied" she would do the individual at that time (but seems to have backed off from that). That seemed inconsistent.

Regardless, she doesn't owe us squat. She does owe an explanation to her teammates. If her teammates are good, I am too. It'll come out in the next 2-4 months if her teammates were really good with this (once out of the spotlight to be rah-rah).

[cuervo72]

Stubblety-Cook? What, no Flibbertigibbit or Mumbletypeg?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Yeah the Love situation is completely apples to oranges. A lot of people don't think Love should even have been on the team to begin with. He certainly isnt' considered the best in the world at what he does, whereas Biles is. .

If Biles had the yips, she wasn't the best at the world at the time of the competition.

Both athletes felt their mental health issues were going to hurt the team and they stepped aside. No different than a pitcher who tells his manager he is out of gas or doesn't have a feel for his curveball and should bring in someone from the pen.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Stubblety-Cook? What, no Flibbertigibbit or Mumbletypeg?

Or Moose-knuckles? Or Buffaro?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Tarcone, she tried to go. That was the whole point. So now you are saying she shouldn't of even tried? That is some how better? I think you are just looking for a reason to critize her.

If she had gone and messed up a bunch, the same people would criticize her for being selfish. This has nothing to do with the sports, she is just an attractive target for the culture wars.

I'm old enough to remember what a great teammate Michael Phelps was for not participating in a medley final.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by tarcone

The only thing I would say is different for me is that Love did it before the games and was able to be replaced.

Its about timing. Had Biles dropped before the games, I would have been disappointed and sad that she wasnt competing.

So the best gymnast in the history of the world was supposed to know that she was going to have this issue before she left for the games?

That's a load of crap man. It's not like she's out there twiddling her thumbs or something. She's flying through the air, traveling at full speed, and if her body isn't doing the twisting and turning that she needs it to, she is legit putting her life at risk. You think she thought that was going to happen before the games started? I think you're making some absurd presumptions about what is involved in what she does. As if you have some sort of knowledge of what it takes for her specifically.

FTR, she's pretty much been fully supported by her fellow gymnasts. There's no 'there' there.

[SirFozzie]

Here's what happens if you try to do super dangerous gymnastic maneuvers when you KNOW you're not 100% but folks push you into something you're not comfortable doing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/28/s...-injuries.html

[SirFozzie]

Dola: We all remember that one legged vault that Kerri Strug did.

Not as many people remember that A) It wasn't necessary as the US had already mathmatically clinched gold. B) That injury cut short her career, and cost her years of competing at the top level.

[mtolson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yes, because being a quitter is absolutely a national tradition that should be praised.

She's the literal opposite of a hero, a fucking snowflake that is highly representative of much that's wrong with the current generation and the nation in general. She's a fucking disgrace.

A young lady who has practiced probaby 50+ hours a week for the past 15+years and owns the most world medals in U.S. history (14) and the most world championships gold medals of any female gymnast (10), some of which came while being a victum of sexually assulted decides to put her team first and allow the next women to step up and do what she felt she couldn't which in fact is exactly what happened is a fucking disgrace ?

Your comment is about the most idiotic thing I have read in a long time. You are the disgrace and exactly whats wrong with this nation.

[SirFozzie]

See, what gets me, is that if Simone had just left and gone home without saying anything, there might have been a smidgen of a kernel of truth to folks like Jon and other's twisted worldview.

There isn't. She admitted that she didn't have the ability to do what the US needed at that moment (Perform at the level that the US needed to win a medal), and stayed, and helped the next woman up. She cheered. She ran chalk to her teammates. She answered all the questions asked of her of why. Honestly.

She is a succesful, outspoken, confident black woman who managed to fight (and BEAT) the system when the system decided to protect a sexual abuser. That's what the protest is truly about.

I see a ton of people claiming that the women's soccer team are not real americans. That the hammer thrower who protested are not real americans. The WNBA and NBA players who protested for social justice are not real americans.

It is THEY who are not real Americans. They are dinosaurs.

And like the dinosaurs, they will go extinct. So they're raging against the dying of their own personal light.

Good riddance to rubbish.

[Edward64]

I guess the disparity makes sense as there are a lot more US medalists and in the US they can get endorsements vs someone from Singapore or Philippines. I read earlier about the Philippines gold medalist and thought it was great that she is now setup for life.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/29/toky...etes-earn.html

a gold winner for Team USA would clinch $37,500 for their efforts while their counterpart in Singapore would receive $737,000 — nearly 20 times more.
:
The Philippines clinched its first ever gold medal in Tokyo this week, making Filipino weightlifter Hidilyn Diaz the country’s first Olympic gold medalist.

As a reward for her historic achievement, Diaz will reportedly receive at least 33 million Philippine pesos (around $600,000) from the Philippine Sports Commission as well as the country’s top businessmen. She has also been offered two homes and free flights for life, according to reports.

[Thomkal]

nice to see them get rewarded for their efforts Edward

[CrimsonFox]

I just don't understand this on a number of levels.

1. I don't know why she would quit. I mean that's what these people live for. The Olympics. That is the definition of "the most pressure ever". I don't really get how anyone that has been there before suddenly can't do it and backs out. I mean most of the olympics is mental I think.
2. It is really assumed that this happens frequently tho. That someone backs out for somesuch. That's why they have backups. I don't know why we are hearing about it. I especially don't know why there have to be all these news conferences and interviews about it. So much drama
3. For her to say "okay I'm going to hurt myself seriously" AND "Okay I can't get it together today and I know Christy will rock this! I'll have her sub in." (I'm making up the name Christy as I don't know the backups). I mean that's grteat self assessment. And really cool and all that. But it does show that she can't handle this anymore. Her body can't. Her brain and nerves can't. I dunno. Something. Really wonder if there was more to this. Some medical thing she isn't sharing.
4. "The Best in the world" garbage. Hate that crap. I had to keep being reminded who she was. I thought she was Gabby DOuglas who I thought was touted as the best in the world. Best in the world means nothing. There are hundreds of best in the worlds. And tired of all the press declaring that garbage. It all means nothing. Although it does probably really get in the heads of some people. Obviously it did to Simone. But again...isn't that always the way the olympics have been? So much TV and news garbage saying 'These Americans hold the hopes and dreams of all americans in their hands! DON'T MESS UP!"
5. Maybe at the end of the day it's just the fact that gymnastics really are a really dangerous sport and to pull out is a good thing if you feel like you can upchuck. I mean if it was dancing floorshow she may have stayed but that horse and bar stuff is totally nuts.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

nice to see them get rewarded for their efforts Edward

If the US was more rewarding for the Olympics, I may try out for the curling team ... think that is only sport I stand even a remote chance in qualifying for!

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Edward64

If the US was more rewarding for the Olympics, I may try out for the curling team ... think that is only sport I stand even a remote chance in qualifying for!

As long as you have an FOFC tattoo or badge on your shirt, so we get some publicity