HOA dispute (no-longer) brewin...update!

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Serious question - isn't it incumbent on the HOA to prove that I installed the light without approval? Rather than just assume I did because they have poor record keeping and then putting the burden of proof on me?

In my state, no. You accepted the terms of the HOA CC&R's when you bought the home, including the state of it. If we have no record of it, then it's assumed that no approval was given. The submission process is pretty straightforward and we want to help neighbors do what they want to their homes. We'd rather see an owner take pride and keep it up, or change something for the positive rather than just ignore obvious issues because they are frustrated they can't get something approved.

However, if there's a house with a fence that illegally encroaches on HOA property we could, no matter how long after, force it to be relocated. That's a pretty shitty thing to do, and my board wouldn't choose that path unless we had no choice. It's no different than a fence that illegally encroaches on a neighbors property, in turn, they could force the fence to be relocated so it's correct, no matter who built it.

I'm glad it worked out with minimal bloodshed on both sides.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Logan

My sister and her family live in a very nice country club neighborhood in Bucks County, PA. They have a HOA with all the traditional rules, and from what I've heard, don't seem to run into very many issues. Her house and those surrounding it effectively all back up into a large shared green space for all of them (think of the houses in a circle, with the yard the center).

I was completely shocked to learn that in a place where the HOA requires the front door to be one of maybe 3 specific colors, my sister's neighbor is able to put in a fucking in ground pool in the section of shared space that is directly behind the neighbor's house, and doesn't have to stop any certain distance away from what would line up with my sister's property. This pool is going to be about 30 feet from her back door and maybe 10 feet from the end of her patio. Not the fence surrounding the pool...the actual edge of the pool. And it's all within the rules.

I would be interested to see the tract map on that one. Shared space is not shared space if one person abuses their right to it with impunity. As CraigSca noted, there are usually no-build easements in CCRs for that, and probably marked out ingress/egress easements for that entire strip.

Also, by prescriptive right, your sister has ownership rights up to halfway across the shared space as well. So if that pool is being built in a shared space, it seems likely it is taking up at least some land that is very much yoir sister's.

If I were to guess, your sister or her husband probably decided not to hassle with this and made up some excuse that sounded okay for why they would not fight a pool being placed there. What you have described sounds like a violation of most any neighborhood CCR, neighbors' property rights, city and probably state law.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Dola, while I'm thinking about it, here's an example of why I don't give a shit about my HOA.

When VDOT was expanding the road beside my property from 2 lanes to 4, they had to buy my property adjacent to the right-of-way - we couldn't object due to VA law, but it wasn't much land compared to what they were offering anyway.

VDOT had to buy the property of all my neighbors adjacent to the road widening and as part of construction they had to take down the split-rail fence that separated our property from the common space which contained a sidewalk and bike path. As part of the property settlement, VDOT was required to re-build any structures that they had to destroy that were present at the time of purchase. The fence was technically on our properties, but it was built by, paid for, and maintained by the HOA. So when construction was complete and VDOT built the new fence, exactly like the old fence, all of the homeowners got notices of HOA violations because the fence wan't pre-approved by the HOA and it didn't meet HOA requirements. We were told to take down the fence and put up an appropriate fence or face fines. Despite the terms and conditions of the VDOT work, the HOA didn't care what the old fence was, they were only concerned that a new fence was constructed that violated HOA rules. The group of us homeowners went to the HOA meeting to complain about the violations and the HOA could not have cared less and even threatened to accelerate the timeline of the fines because of the public visibility of the new fence.

Well, one of my enterprising neighbors brought a representative of VDOT with them to the meeting and seeing the HOA asshattery in person, agreed that VDOT would build a new fence to whatever specifications the HOA required and pay for it.

But wouldn't a good HoA proactively deal with VDOT instead of forcing individual owners to bring the parties together? This makes it sound like it was a very big construction project and VDoT was being very reasonable about what they'd do, but the HoA didn't get involved until it became a bigger hassle than it needed to be.

[PilotMan]

I'd say so. It all comes down to who is volunteering and how much direction the management company gets from the board.

No our little participation results in more issues imo

[Ben E Lou]

Having to pay a relatively minimal amount to have access to a pool and clubhouse has put us in HOA communities twice--first down in the Lowcountry (8 years), and now in GSO (approaching 3). In both cases, we did our homework and found the HOAs to be pretty laid back and {knocks on wood} have yet to run into any real issues at all. We got a "please clean up your yard" letter when for several weeks we left a kiddie pool leaning against the side of the house that we never see, and once got a "you need to cut your lawn" letter when I had 2 straight weeks of work travel during a time in the summer when we were getting thunderstorms almost every afternoon. That's it. No big deal. We've had an irrigation system installed, added gutters different from everyone else's (both houses), put up a fence, changed the color of our house completely with new siding, and added a storage shed with no hassle whatsoever.

That said, one of my favorite moments of "OMG this guy is a NUTJOB" hilarity (I mean, outside of some of the wackos I've banned from FOFC over the years ,) involved a guy in our SC neighborhood who RAN for the HOA and was, thankfully, defeated.

It was a great neighborhood. New homes. Good people. Huge pool and very nice clubhouse, quiet, sidewalks, etc. One thing that kept it quiet, as you will note on the map below, is that behind us was a large reservoir.



West of us, on the other side of the reservoir, was a significant-sized commercial area with tons of shopping and restaurants. Northwoods Mall (circled) was pretty much due west of us, and the geographic center of said commercial area. However, because of the water, you had to drive up to Snake Road to the north or Yeaman's Hall to the South (both circled). So, yeah, the mall was less than 2 miles away as the crow flies, but it was a 7ish mile drive to get there. All the other benefits of the location greatly outweighed that minor inconvenience for most people...

...except this one dude running for the HOA Board.

Yes, at the yearly meeting where the prospective board members were introducing themselves and saying what they would do for the community, they were talking about stuff like neighborhood watch, adding flowers to the entrance, hiring pool monitors to help keep outsiders from getting into the pool area during peak times, getting the subdivision sign a fresh coat of paint, etc. Standard stuff. Then this dude stands up and says, "If you elect me, my first priority is going to be working with the City, County, State, and whoever else it takes, to (and he got loud at this point) GET US A BRIDGE BUILT OVER GOOSE CREEK RESERVOIR!!! I'M TIRED OF US GETTING TREATED LIKE SECOND-CLASS CITIZENS AND HAVING TO DRIVE ALL THE WAY AROUND THAT DAMNED WATER TO GO OUT TO EAT!!!"

Fortunately, I wasn't the only person who laughed out loud because I thought he was joking. Turns out he was serious. He lost that time, and ran again on the same platform the next time there was a board election. (Lost again.) I need to ask some of my old neighbors if that dude is still running every time. I wouldn't be surprised in the least. Or maybe he moved to the other side of the reservoir.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

However, if there's a house with a fence that illegally encroaches on HOA property we could, no matter how long after, force it to be relocated.

You may be right, I won't claim to know PA state law but you may be surprised.
Many states, SC I know for one, have implied easement or implied usage laws. By which a fence or any structure allowed to remain in place by a property owner for a specific amount of time may qualify for permanent irrevocable permission to remain. IOW you may lose legal right to force someone to remove a fence from property you legally own simply because it has existed for X amount of time.

IIRC the legal term was Adverse Possession

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

and once got a "you need to cut your lawn" letter when I had 2 straight weeks of work travel during a time in the summer when we were getting thunderstorms almost every afternoon.

I know this isn't a big deal but who are these losers who go around looking for minor things like this? I understand a lawn that is habitually long and has weeds everywhere, but someone felt the need to send a letter for a lawn that wasn't cut for 2 weeks?

[MrBug708]

Out of curiosity, how much are your HOA fees? When I lived in a condo, it was $225. I think it is like $250 now. Some condos were closer to 350

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I know this isn't a big deal but who are these losers who go around looking for minor things like this? I understand a lawn that is habitually long and has weeds everywhere, but someone felt the need to send a letter for a lawn that wasn't cut for 2 weeks?

I was wondering that too - do HOAs rely on people complaining or do they have people tasked with going around inspecting things? Either way, I'd be so anxious all the time knowing that neighbors are constantly watching looking for slip-ups. I walk my dog twice a day in my neighborhood, a total of about an hour walking around every day, I couldn't tell you who hasn't mowed their lawn this week or whose mailbox needs to be painted - these discussions always remind me that I'm not HOA material.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by Logan

Blue Bell

Oh. That's Montgomery county. Nice area.

[stevew]

Anyone with any sort of job and some consistent rain can easily get high grass with no hope of fixing it ASAP. Like the retired loser neighbors I have can cut their grass whenever the spirit moves them, but I'm not about to go out in the top of the sun or in the early morning. So my grass gets outrageous at time. I guess it's not that I don't care, it's just such a low priority thing.

I mean do they really want Ben to hire a service or to jeopardize his work relationships just cause these 10-14 day stretches can happen? I'm sure it wasn't that bad anyways.

[panerd]

People seem to be fixating on the grass thing and the security light from the original post here. My HOA is $300 a year and goes towards a neighborhood pool, several neighborhood parks/playgrounds, and common ground maintenance and signage maintenance. But I will address the parking thing and how it most definitely can effect property value...

So my old neighbors used to park a boat in their driveway and thus the street (often including the front of our house when their kids were home from college) somehow became their parking spots. When I say property value I'm not talking about what Zillow says my property is worth or what a bank quotes me on a HELOC, I'm talking about when I sell the place and there is a boat in the neighboring driveway and a car in front of the house they are looking at. And when there is a school bus in another driveway or an RV on their route. Add a few unmaintained lawns and it sure as shit is going to effect me selling and possibly the price of my house. Not sure how that's debatable?

[molson]

The city I live in would crack down on the boat/school bus/RV immediately (though they're also pretty willing to issue permits for short-term road storage, and I really don't care if someone needs to have their TV or moving POD on the street for a while, especially when they're funding the city for the privilege). And I couldn't care less if people want to park cars on the road. I do that myself most days, since my girlfriend works early and sometimes I get home late. Other times I have people over and there's only room for 2-3 cars in the driveway.

I'm not convinced things like that impact home values when considered against people would refuse to live a HOA hurting interest and limiting eyeballs on the house, but it's cool as long as you know what you're getting into and can find a neighborhood that shares your values, or isn't charging you a premium for values you don't have. But with HOAs, for me, I could never be sure what kind of HOA I'm moving into, or if it might change while I'm there. $300 for a common area is one thing, but you could also end up in a drawn-out fight over a mailbox color or exterior light. That doesn't ALWAYS happen, but it can and does, very often. Edit: I'd also be concerned about stuff like not being able to build the fence I need for when I let the dogs out. And I kind of prefer living in a neighborhood where the houses all look different, all have different features, etc. But, if the lack of HOA, cars parked on the road, temporarily neglected lawns, non-conformity, etc, do impact the home value, I'm more than happy to take that discount on the front end.

Though I've heard from some friends in other parts of the country that it's hard to find a decent neighborhood in some towns that doesn't have an HOA. Maybe that's a difference in how code enforcement operates. And cultural differences. I was pissed when people from my insurance company creeped into the back yard while I was already living there and sent me a cancellation warning because the balusters on my deck were too far apart. To me, home ownership meant freedom, adulthood, carving my own place in the world, etc, and HOAs felt contrary to that (home insurance and their vigilance is unavoidable and understandable, though, I never figured out if they were really allowed to enter the property without my permission).

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Having to pay a relatively minimal amount to have access to a pool and clubhouse has put us in HOA communities twice--first down in the Lowcountry (8 years), and now in GSO (approaching 3). In both cases, we did our homework and found the HOAs to be pretty laid back and {knocks on wood} have yet to run into any real issues at all. We got a "please clean up your yard" letter when for several weeks we left a kiddie pool leaning against the side of the house that we never see, and once got a "you need to cut your lawn" letter when I had 2 straight weeks of work travel during a time in the summer when we were getting thunderstorms almost every afternoon. That's it. No big deal. We've had an irrigation system installed, added gutters different from everyone else's (both houses), put up a fence, changed the color of our house completely with new siding, and added a storage shed with no hassle whatsoever.

That said, one of my favorite moments of "OMG this guy is a NUTJOB" hilarity (I mean, outside of some of the wackos I've banned from FOFC over the years ,) involved a guy in our SC neighborhood who RAN for the HOA and was, thankfully, defeated.

It was a great neighborhood. New homes. Good people. Huge pool and very nice clubhouse, quiet, sidewalks, etc. One thing that kept it quiet, as you will note on the map below, is that behind us was a large reservoir.



West of us, on the other side of the reservoir, was a significant-sized commercial area with tons of shopping and restaurants. Northwoods Mall (circled) was pretty much due west of us, and the geographic center of said commercial area. However, because of the water, you had to drive up to Snake Road to the north or Yeaman's Hall to the South (both circled). So, yeah, the mall was less than 2 miles away as the crow flies, but it was a 7ish mile drive to get there. All the other benefits of the location greatly outweighed that minor inconvenience for most people...

...except this one dude running for the HOA Board.

Yes, at the yearly meeting where the prospective board members were introducing themselves and saying what they would do for the community, they were talking about stuff like neighborhood watch, adding flowers to the entrance, hiring pool monitors to help keep outsiders from getting into the pool area during peak times, getting the subdivision sign a fresh coat of paint, etc. Standard stuff. Then this dude stands up and says, "If you elect me, my first priority is going to be working with the City, County, State, and whoever else it takes, to (and he got loud at this point) GET US A BRIDGE BUILT OVER GOOSE CREEK RESERVOIR!!! I'M TIRED OF US GETTING TREATED LIKE SECOND-CLASS CITIZENS AND HAVING TO DRIVE ALL THE WAY AROUND THAT DAMNED WATER TO GO OUT TO EAT!!!"

Fortunately, I wasn't the only person who laughed out loud because I thought he was joking. Turns out he was serious. He lost that time, and ran again on the same platform the next time there was a board election. (Lost again.) I need to ask some of my old neighbors if that dude is still running every time. I wouldn't be surprised in the least. Or maybe he moved to the other side of the reservoir.

+1,000,000 kudos for not only describing a fun geography situation but actually showing a map!

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by panerd

People seem to be fixating on the grass thing and the security light from the original post here. My HOA is $300 a year and goes towards a neighborhood pool, several neighborhood parks/playgrounds, and common ground maintenance and signage maintenance. But I will address the parking thing and how it most definitely can effect property value...

So my old neighbors used to park a boat in their driveway and thus the street (often including the front of our house when their kids were home from college) somehow became their parking spots. When I say property value I'm not talking about what Zillow says my property is worth or what a bank quotes me on a HELOC, I'm talking about when I sell the place and there is a boat in the neighboring driveway and a car in front of the house they are looking at. And when there is a school bus in another driveway or an RV on their route. Add a few unmaintained lawns and it sure as shit is going to effect me selling and possibly the price of my house. Not sure how that's debatable?

Oh to live in a place where a boat forces people to park on the streets. I'm lucky of they enforce the no overnight parking.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Having now seen the map, I totally understand the guy's frustration with it.

I also can't imagine why he thinks (unless it's a really tiny district) the HOA would have that sort of pull with the commissioner.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

+1,000,000 kudos for not only describing a fun geography situation but actually showing a map!

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I also can't imagine why he thinks (unless it's a really tiny district) the HOA would have that sort of pull with the commissioner.

Oh, it's not just that. Notice how far just about *any* roads or neighborhoods are from the reservoir or the little creek tributaries on both sides, and keep in mind that we're talking about the Lowcountry, where for the most part, where there is water, there's marshland. (Part of the reason Charleston and Myrtle are so popular is that there is virtually NO beach for a hundred miles or so along the coast once you get north of Charleston..just swamps. Supply and demand and all that.) I don't know much about road construction, but common sense tells me that building a road and bridge back there would cost wayyyyyy more than in most places, and quite possibly would be completely untenable.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by stevew

I mean do they really want Ben to hire a service or to jeopardize his work relationships just cause these 10-14 day stretches can happen? I'm sure it wasn't that bad anyways.

In fairness, one of the few grasses that will grow well in that sandy soil and intense sun/heat down there is centipede, which is what the builder had put in every single lawn in the neighborhood. The lawn itself didn't look all that bad, but the little centipede tendrils were running over the curb, into the gutter, and in some cases almost all the way out into the street.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Is that the built-in-1917 section of reservoir? Or a newer segment?

I'm just wondering if it's been there for 100 years, did the guy not drive the route at some point before buying?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm just wondering if it's been there for 100 years, did the guy not drive the route at some point before buying?

That's my question. It's the same thing (to me) as folks in the neighborhoods around me that complain about traffic on Saturdays during college football season - did you not notice the 70,000 seat stadium a mile away?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

That's my question. It's the same thing (to me) as folks in the neighborhoods around me that complain about traffic on Saturdays during college football season - did you not notice the 70,000 seat stadium a mile away?

In my defense, I bought my house outside of football season and had not experienced the shutdown phenomenon.

We just stand it on its head though. Before & after kickoff you just make sure you've got food in the house ahead of time and don't need to be anywhere at all. During the first 2-3 quarters though, you can go anywhere around Athens (aside from downtown) without any trouble at all, no waiting, no lines, nobody.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Is that the built-in-1917 section of reservoir? Or a newer segment?

I'm just wondering if it's been there for 100 years, did the guy not drive the route at some point before buying?

No idea about the 1917 part, but the entire development--not just our one subdivision, but like 8 subdivisions--was built starting in either 2004 or 2005. (Our house was built in 2007 and was in the final section of "Phase 1." We rented in the same neighborhood starting in 2006, and the rental house was built in 2005 and we were told it was "among the first houses built.) Prior to that, it was just a massive wooded area. The reservoir was there when we got there in 2006. Unless he did zero due diligence, there's no chance that he didn't know about the drive. By the time we built in 2007, you still had to drive four miles just to get to a crappy grocery store in a shady part of town. (That store was maybe half a mile from the Walter Scott shooting, fwiw.) A new nice one was being built in the development less than a mile from our house at the time we decided to build there. By 2009*, there was one sort of local neighborhood bar/grill in the same shopping area as the nice Bi-Lo, but that was it Even when we moved to NC in 2014, there were just two neighborhood competing bar/grills, a Subway, and a carry-out Chinese place---but enough people in those 8ish subdivisions in the development that the city had already secured funds to build a new elementary school right smack-dab in the middle of the area. (Just to the south of the "D" in "Our 'Hood" on the map.)

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

In my defense, I bought my house outside of football season and had not experienced the shutdown phenomenon.

We just stand it on its head though. Before & after kickoff you just make sure you've got food in the house ahead of time and don't need to be anywhere at all. During the first 2-3 quarters though, you can go anywhere around Athens (aside from downtown) without any trouble at all, no waiting, no lines, nobody.

Heh. Yeah. I took my oldest to her first game in Athens this year. It was a noon kickoff in September (Nichols State) and the heat was too much for her. We barely made it into the 2nd quarter before I decided to bail before I tainted the experience forever for her. That was the first time I'd driven around Athens *during* a game. Yeah, talk about a ghost town. It was remarkable.



(*--I know this date because I had a once-a-month gig there and was scheduled to play there for only the third time on the day she was born. Some friends of mine, mostly from my church, were planning to come and though we got the word out to most, everyone didn't hear. As a result, I'll always have the story to tell that my Pastor found out from a bartender that one of the Elders in his church had his first child. )

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

That was the first time I'd driven around Athens *during* a game. Yeah, talk about a ghost town. It was remarkable.

I've learned to keep track of the score if I'm out & about. You can pretty much predict the exodus based on that.

Blowouts means the traffic picks up somewhere in q3 (and against non-P5 teams, as early as the end of halftime), close games you're good til well into the 4th qtr even for night games.

[tarcone]

One our trustees just got arrested for stealing $95k out of our subdivision account.
We have a company that is supposed to protect us, but they failed spectacularly.
he did this over an 18 month period. Other trustees had no clue.

Drama is at a high pitch in the subdivision.

[miami_fan]

I got a letter from the HOA saying that I have weeds in my landscaped bed. The picture attached is just a photo of the front of my house from the sidewalk. I did not see any weeds in the garden bed but hey no biggie. I pulled the non plants in the bed and responded that everything has been taken care of. I received another notice. This time the picture is taken from about 4 steps to the left of where the first pic was taken. I asked for clarification. The response from the HOA says I need to look at the community standards. I look at the community standards and there is nothing about weeds. Once again, I sent the notice and moved on about my business. Yesterday, I got a third notice threatening a possible fine. I called the HOD manager yesterday morning and he said that he could not discuss the violation over the phone and to send him my questions via email. I asked if we can meet so he can show me what the issue is. He said that he would not for safety concerns. Ummm okay. So I called a attorney friend for some advice. He looked at the community standards and found nothing regarding the supposed violations. He also looked at the pictures and did not see any weeds. So he sent a letter to the HOA yesterday afternoon stating that instead of asking me to provide evidence why I should not be fined for the presumed violations, the HOA should provide evidence why he should not file a lawsuit on my behalf for harassment. My wife received an email this morning if it was possible to come by this weekend so they can resolve this issue. Of course she forwarded the email to me. I am trying to decide if I want to be petty and turn down the request out of concerns for my personal safety.

[NobodyHere]

At this point I would just forward the request to the attorney.

[Edward64]

That's funny. I've found our HOA has gotten less stringent as the years go by. There were some petty stuff earlier on for us.

Is this a third party used by HOA to monitor or the HOA itself? If HOA itself, I'd give them a break. For the most part, volunteers in a thankless job, trying to do the right thing.

I'd post it in the neighborhood FB page (if you guys have one) to publicize your displeasure. I like to get things over with, so I would just meet with them.

[Ksyrup]

We have a pretty lax HOA, $100 a year and they mostly work with people on violations and don't go overboard on technical stuff. We went to the annual meeting about 5 or 6 years ago and there was this dude and his wife there who was at level 8 while the rest of us were at level 1 - I was completely unaware of the dynamic, but he had been cited several times for obvious violations (parking a boat on his yard kind of stuff), but he was convinced he was being picked on unfairly because his neighbor was on the board. By the end of that meeting, I told my wife we're not going back to a meeting because that's exactly the type of dude who shows up with a gun.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I got a letter from the HOA saying that I have weeds in my landscaped bed. The picture attached is just a photo of the front of my house from the sidewalk. I did not see any weeds in the garden bed but hey no biggie. I pulled the non plants in the bed and responded that everything has been taken care of. I received another notice. This time the picture is taken from about 4 steps to the left of where the first pic was taken. I asked for clarification. The response from the HOA says I need to look at the community standards. I look at the community standards and there is nothing about weeds. Once again, I sent the notice and moved on about my business. Yesterday, I got a third notice threatening a possible fine. I called the HOD manager yesterday morning and he said that he could not discuss the violation over the phone and to send him my questions via email. I asked if we can meet so he can show me what the issue is. He said that he would not for safety concerns. Ummm okay. So I called a attorney friend for some advice. He looked at the community standards and found nothing regarding the supposed violations. He also looked at the pictures and did not see any weeds. So he sent a letter to the HOA yesterday afternoon stating that instead of asking me to provide evidence why I should not be fined for the presumed violations, the HOA should provide evidence why he should not file a lawsuit on my behalf for harassment. My wife received an email this morning if it was possible to come by this weekend so they can resolve this issue. Of course she forwarded the email to me. I am trying to decide if I want to be petty and turn down the request out of concerns for my personal safety.

Former board president here.

If you have a property management company I would recommend going through the proper channels to contact someone on the board first. I would also look at attending the next board meeting and getting the first few minutes to go over the issues with the manager and the board present. There, you can tell them your entire story, show the pictures and express your feelings. If there's something obvious you're probably SOL, but otherwise, the board really ought to be looking out for owners if the manager isn't being helpful to the community. Because they all work for the community. The manager's job is to follow the decisions of the board and enforce the documents. You have a right to know what the violation is. Or at the very, very least, under which part of the documents that you've run afoul. If the property manager isn't serving the needs of the residents then it's really on the board to improve that. It's on them to back the residents and correct the manager if they aren't good enough.

Sure you can go the legal route, but it's really overkill.

Covid saw a lot of HOA managers threatened with assault and some assaulted with people being home more. I've had mixed results on the board with that. But I've ridden with the managers on their drives to point out things that need corrected, and I've had them tell me they don't feel comfortable with me in the car. It's sort of up to the manager themselves and the company they work for, whatever their policy is.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

At this point I would just forward the request to the attorney.

This is what I ended up doing. I can't take the chance that the manager might feel threatened and decides he needs to "stand his ground" or something silly.

Originally Posted by Edward64

That's funny. I've found our HOA has gotten less stringent as the years go by. There were some petty stuff earlier on for us.

Is this a third party used by HOA to monitor or the HOA itself? If HOA itself, I'd give them a break. For the most part, volunteers in a thankless job, trying to do the right thing.

I'd post it in the neighborhood FB page (if you guys have one) to publicize your displeasure. I like to get things over with, so I would just meet with them.

I honestly don't care. I am not even complaining about the notice. It's weeds. It's not like they told me to rebuild the house. I just don't think I need to be playing a guessing game as to what is required to meet the standard. Look up your house on Zillow or one of those sites. That is the version of the picture I got on three separate occasions to explain the violation. Each time with obvious differences that work had been done (i.e. new plants) in the garden bed. If there is a specific weed that is eating at the manger's craw, point out that weed and I will take care of it. It's the refusal to point out that demon weed that is pissing me off.

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

We went to the annual meeting about 5 or 6 years ago and there was this dude and his wife there who was at level 8 while the rest of us were at level 1 - I was completely unaware of the dynamic, but he had been cited several times for obvious violations (parking a boat on his yard kind of stuff), but he was convinced he was being picked on unfairly because his neighbor was on the board. By the end of that meeting, I told my wife we're not going back to a meeting because that's exactly the type of dude who shows up with a gun.

We had a similar experience when we first moved in to our current home.

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Former board president here.

If you have a property management company I would recommend going through the proper channels to contact someone on the board first. I would also look at attending the next board meeting and getting the first few minutes to go over the issues with the manager and the board present. There, you can tell them your entire story, show the pictures and express your feelings. If there's something obvious you're probably SOL, but otherwise, the board really ought to be looking out for owners if the manager isn't being helpful to the community. Because they all work for the community. The manager's job is to follow the decisions of the board and enforce the documents. You have a right to know what the violation is. Or at the very, very least, under which part of the documents that you've run afoul. If the property manager isn't serving the needs of the residents then it's really on the board to improve that. It's on them to back the residents and correct the manager if they aren't good enough.

Sure you can go the legal route, but it's really overkill.

Covid saw a lot of HOA managers threatened with assault and some assaulted with people being home more. I've had mixed results on the board with that. But I've ridden with the managers on their drives to point out things that need corrected, and I've had them tell me they don't feel comfortable with me in the car. It's sort of up to the manager themselves and the company they work for, whatever their policy is.

I hear what you are saying PM. But I am not the one who made it a legal issue. Each response from the manager was something to the effect that they could not give me answers to what I believe were legitimate questions for legal reasons. This includes my request to direct me to the location the HOA website of the standard that I supposedly violated so I can take care of the issue. Well it is that much of a legal issue, I might what to get my own legal consultant. Again, we are talking about weeds, not weeeeedddd!

The other part of this that is pissing me off is by contacting my wife instead of me the person who has been involved the whole time, he brought the actual hothead of the family into the conversation which is something I was trying to avoid. So of course, while I was with my son's practice, I received an email to the lawyer friend from my wife that had pictures of yards in the neighborhood who have significant weed problems. This is not the way I wanted to begin Labor Day weekend.

[Lathum]

Any chance you are being targeted?

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Any chance you are being targeted?

Every single homeowner who ever got a letter to correct something thinks they are being targeted. Ok...not every, but it's insane how aggrieved some people get over little shit.

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I hear what you are saying PM. But I am not the one who made it a legal issue. Each response from the manager was something to the effect that they could not give me answers to what I believe were legitimate questions for legal reasons. This includes my request to direct me to the location the HOA website of the standard that I supposedly violated so I can take care of the issue. Well it is that much of a legal issue, I might what to get my own legal consultant. Again, we are talking about weeds, not weeeeedddd!

The other part of this that is pissing me off is by contacting my wife instead of me the person who has been involved the whole time, he brought the actual hothead of the family into the conversation which is something I was trying to avoid. So of course, while I was with my son's practice, I received an email to the lawyer friend from my wife that had pictures of yards in the neighborhood who have significant weed problems. This is not the way I wanted to begin Labor Day weekend.

I get what you're saying, and you're correct that now you've been sent 3 letters and that the next one is a fine, and you have corrected what you thought the issues were, and were told that no only could you not be told what the specific issue was, that it was your job to look it up and be familiar with the documents. You've gone so far as to have someone else look at everything, and they can't figure it out either. From my perspective, that's an issue with the manager. As a board member, if you were in my neighborhood and you told me this story, I'd totally go to bat for you. If the board doesn't got to bat for residents when the management company isn't getting it done, then they aren't worth being leaders in the community. The onus is 100% on the HOA to prove, and somehow they feel like the photos do prove, that you are in the wrong, but if you're trying, and not getting the answers, you're fully fine to go down that other path as well.

And why in hell can they not do a zoom meeting with you? You don't need to go down there and have them explain it. You don't need them to come to you. Pretty much all HOA's used Zoom during the pandemic. It should be fully available to you. The manager just doesn't want to get into it with you because they are 'busy' with 10 other neighborhoods, and they can't remember and have no idea who you are, or why you were written up. That's why you're getting the run around.

[Solecismic]

I served a few years with my HOA back in Michigan. I'm not really suited for that kind of thing. Fell into it because I attended annual meetings and my next-door neighbor (who had served for years and wanted out) basically pointed at me and said "it's your turn."

It's important to keep the weed police off of the board. There's always that guy, and during elections it's always tempting to let the person who is enthusiastic about serving become part of the board. Who is going to run with a platform of "I don't really want to do this, but we have to avoid being that neighborhood where people are forever pointing out each other's violations."

I think I did a decent job preventing that. I focused on dues payments and managing the budget, trying to streamline the new build process (architectural review is about a few exterior choices, not trying to tell a homeowner where to put the upstairs bathrooms). Got a fellow homeowner who had a lot of experience as a landscaper when he was in college to restructure the common areas maintenance. Problem was, he wanted to be board president (no one else did) and turned into a weed police guy at that point. I decided four years was enough, and all of a sudden, we had a "committee" of homeowners evaluating each house for mailbox paint and weed compliance.

The last thing I did was evaluate management companies to take over the day-to-day stuff. After talking to a couple of companies and to board members in other neighborhoods, I realized they're mostly a scam. At my last board meeting, I presented a motion to raise dues to hire a management company, then said I would vote against it because I thought they'd cause more problems than they'd solve. No one voted for it.

The next year, after the mailbox police idea backfired, they raised dues and hired the management company when they couldn't even get people to attend the annual meeting. One of the management company promises (the most valuable one) was to do the long-term budgeting and connect us with trusted contractors and good prices. They didn't.

We moved three years ago. The roads, which were private, were starting to fail because we no longer had the relationship with the company that built them. Last I checked (mostly through Zillow), homeowner dues have tripled.

Apathy is the biggest problem an HOA faces. If you're lucky, you get people interested in serving. If you're really lucky, they aren't jerks.

There's an HOA in our new neighborhood in Ohio (much larger neighborhood - more than 100 homes). They just announced they want to increase dues from $150/year to $1,300/year. I suspect they just want people to attend the next meeting. There's an empty board seat and a request for volunteers... no way, just not doing it again.

[Edward64]

Our subdivision has an "active lifestyle" section (e.g. older, no kids) and the regular section. At one time, we were worried our HOA may be taken over by the older folks (e.g. more time on their hands) but that's not happened.

There was a period of apathy and remember when subdivision was asking for volunteers to serve, and there was some drama. But surprisingly, we don't seem to have that problem anymore.

Overall, our HOA is doing a good job and grateful for the neighbors who volunteer.