Monster Train (roguelike deckbuilder game on Steam, console, iOS)

[QuikSand]

In one or two of the threads about video games here, I got pointed toward Monster Train... and fairly recently sort of dug into it and have really enjoyed it.

Wondering if anyone here ever played to the point of getting REALLY good. I am working my way up to the level of complexity where I can kinda see from where I am to being really good... and I usually sort of wither and fade away at about this point.

Just wonder if there's any conversation to be had here beyond "it's a good game" (it is) and "it's a new genre to me" (it was).

[QuikSand]

My son and I saw that MT was included in xBox GamePass, so we played it on our XBox for a few weeks, but it dropped from their rotation on Jan 1, so I'm back to my PC. Just not the same vibe.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

My son and I saw that MT was included in xBox GamePass, so we played it on our XBox for a few weeks, but it dropped from their rotation on Jan 1, so I'm back to my PC. Just not the same vibe.

Really, what's the difference?


I haven't played in a while, but I really enjoyed Monster Train (much more than Slay the Spire which never stuck for me). When I stopped I was just making my way through the covenant ranks for all of the clans one-by-one and I think I was on covenant level 6. I never bothered to get the DLC because it was so poorly received.

[SirFozzie]

Yup, I am a Monster Train fanatic. (favorite team, Awoken/Stygian with Wyldenten.. it's a fun game, especially when you find the combos that work (there are several broken combos that if you're lucky enough to get that just absolutely maul folks.)

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Really, what's the difference?

In the game, nothing at all.

But playing on the big screen in our den, with my son and daughter each pitching in and following along with the strategy and sweating the big fights is afar more rewarding experience than sitting alone at my desk. That's all.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

it's a fun game, especially when you find the combos that work (there are several broken combos that if you're lucky enough to get that just absolutely maul folks.)

Yes, I love getting into a groove and realizing "oh this combo is gonna win the whole thing." A feeling I used to have/enjoy a lot playing M:tG back in the day, and haven't gotten a lot of since then, tbh.

I enjoy playing the blue/melting line best, overall, I think. But lately I am mostly trying to branch out and just play a random setup without alteration, to work on my ability to max out the cards that I'd usually just skip.

[Umbrella]

I'm decent (covenant level 16), but certainly not an expert. It's one of my favorite and most played games. I never got the DLC since I've heard the game is better without it, so I play vanilla only.

For me, Little Fade is the one I do best with. Depending on the decks, I can do really well with Hornbreaker as well.

I tend to struggle a little with Shardtail, although there are certain decks where she is OP. If you can get Impolate with Holdover on it, she's extremely powerful.

I suck with Penumbra on the higher levels, although he is really strong at lower covenants.

The one Seraph that always seems to trip me up is the diligent. Most of my strategies involve spells, and if I don't get Vinemother, Thornfuit, or Cursed Vines (all Awoken), I struggle mightily.

[Lathum]

How does this compare to Slay the Spire?

[SirFozzie]

It's different in that you have to (generally) build a layered defense.

'Monsters come in at the lowest level, and work their way up turn after turn to the top of the train, where your life points (your pyre) is, so Turtling up is not mostly a great strategy, since they are moving up each turn (unless stopped by an outside force, like your boss character's ability or a special card).

There are 8 normal maps, on maps 3, 6. and 8 you will fight bosses, and each map has a choice of one of two directions. which will add to your deck in various ways (with options being to increase your spells ability, your monsters ability, or add or subtract cards from your deck (New monsters, etcetera). Usually in the middle is a bonus option, which varies from map to map, but can give you an artifact, or super boost your cards, but they cost shards to do. The more shards you collect (from the middle options), the tougher the monsters get.

So, to provide an example, here's the clans I normally run:

Awoken/Stygian:

My boss character has three base flavors to start on Map one: One is a quick strike type, which will let your side attack first , ieattack before the monsters do (normally the monsters attack first), the second option is a "All-strike" (called sweep) option, where your character will attack ALL the monsters on the floor with one attack, which also prevents the monsters from going up to the next level for one turn, and the third option is a scale-able boss, that gets stronger with every card you play on that floor, which is usually my choice if I get it to start. (It also provides three direct attack cards when you play the boss to start it off)

So, on the first few floors, I'm looking for cards that synergize with the style that my boss monster encourages (so, if I'm playing the one that gets stronger with every card I play, I want monsters that have the same ability (which the Stygian have a couple), and lots of cheap spells that will provide boosts (with card draw if possible, to play MORE cards)

After the third battle (the first boss battle), your hero evolves, either strengthening the existing ability they already have, or adding an additional ability from the two types you DIDN'T select at the beginning.

In this case, my ideal goal is to have a sweeper (to keep enemies from advancing up the train) that gets stronger with every card. In front of it, I'll put monsters that can tank multiple hits, and/or cards that play into my deck's abilities.

edit: oh, one of the major reasons you usually need to have a layered defense, you have a limit on the amount of space you can put creatures in on each level (so I look for cards that will move people from level to level or increase the space on a certain level)

[QuikSand]

FWIW, the DLC massively revived my interest in the game. I think it got pilloried when it first came out but received at least one patch.

I think the game is far more interesting with the DLC, if that matters.


And for context, I'm up to covenant level 16 also, so around the same level as some here. On my Xbox account have been advancing with random setups, so I'm not really a specialist with any certain combination, though I feel most comfortably in command with the blue/melting group in play.

[larrymcg421]

I have made it to Covenant 25 with all factions except Wurmkin, but I haven't yet gone after Divinity. I haven't really explored the Shard portion of the game, but plan to do so shortly.

My favorite combo is Hellhorned/Awoken (with Brawler Princ as champion). I also love Gorge Penumbra and both Melting champs.

[QuikSand]

My last deep dive was trying to win at my max covenant level 14/15 at the time using the Wurmkin clan and the Echowright hero, with the melting clan secondary... I still have yet to get a full win through the Divinity (DLC) with that combination, despite maybe 7-8 tries.

One variation capitalizes on consume spells, and I think it requires more commitment to that line than I have been able to give it. I remain very intrigued by what I am missing there... I feel I'm a pretty logical and savvy gamer and I am finding myself just hopeless by round five/six as often as not... I like facing that, at least for a while.

[QuikSand]

Not going to bother with a dynasty thread, but I'm going to post my notes here on a pink/blue run...sorta like a dynasty thread, the note-taking and sharing usually helps hold me accountable to slowing down and making better decisions. I still have yet to win with this setup, let's see how we could do so...

[QuikSand]

Ok, I’m going to document my trials in Monster Train
I’m trying to win with this setup:

Primary clan: Wurmkin (pink, relies on charged echoes)
Secondary clan: Melting Remnant (blue, uses reformed creatures after defeat/burnout)
Hero: Echowright. Using the Repeater upgrade
So, the Repeater returns one, eventually two, Consumed spells back to your hand each turn. That mechanic seems central to getting the most of this build… and I am not good at it, apparently. I have tried this setup several times, and only managed to get to levels 5-6-7 where I get crushed.
I’m hoping a fuller documentation like this might help me think more clearly ahead, and to have a deck better suited to surviving these middle levels.

Opening cards:
2x Echo transfer: +15 attack should help boost up our combat units
2x Molded: reform the unit I want, rather than random
1x Ambient Change: 0 cost, tag Consume on three used spells (I don’t play this often)
Artifact: units get an extra upgrade spot
Artifact (for 15 shards): Resin Block – friendly unit dies gets +10 attack (narrowly choosing this over Waxer Snuffer – Extinguish abilities trigger an additional time)

Ok, so my thinking is: with blue I always get into boosting up my attack units and trying to be strong in melee combat… here I will try to also lean into the Consume spells… and will do my best to leave it at that. I think mission drift is my main weakness here… this write-up is forcing me to type out what I’m thinking, so let’s hope that works better than usual.
Path: so, I tend not to spend time on this, but I’m trying to improve, so here goes… let’s look at the path ahead. For me, I want to focus on the Hellvents where we get a chance to duplicate a card – I will keep an eye on those spots (after stages 2, 4, and 7… I think this is a mildly variable thing) to ensure I have maxed out a card for each of them.
Bosses: sharps pay attention to this in advance, I want to start doing so more aggressively…
-Daedalus
-Fel
-Seraph the Patient

Along the way, I read/saw a guide that said to be on the lookout for certain things that are hard to defeat for many decks… as I try to relocate that, from memory:
-a line with TWO tough front units, rather than one
-a line with a troublesome unit IN BACK
-(one more major thing here I am forgetting)

Okay, I’ll summarize the play quickly until something interesting happens:

Rd 1: overloaded with reform spells with nothing to reform, damaged down to 51, ugly start

Gains: Bog Fly i (small unit powers up with echoes), Entombed Explosive (tomb bomb)
Add a Remnant banner unit Paraffin Thug (makes $ on slay, good essence to transfer) and give the Bog Imp multistrike and +5/+5/burnout1 (to take advantage of the Resin Block artifact +10 on every death…plan will be to duplicate this unit and have two one-space expanding attackers)… ugh not enough coins to afford this, because I missed the bonus fairy thingie dammit – so just mutlistrike

Artifact for 15 shards = Fade’s First Blade – gain Rage 3 when loses burnout (good fit)

So I’m fairly deeply committed to strong attacking units here, and as usual have overlooked the consume spells that are supposedly a centerpiece of the deck

Round 2: Barbed Disciples, lots of spikes to handle here. Not easy, but no damage.

Gains: Total Recall I – return 3 spells from discard and apply consume, should help cycling spells if I can get some useful ones, but it’s a Consume also… and Hallowed Drippings I – Consume spell adds 5 burnout to my burnout units on that floor, helpful boss killer and a consume spell

Event: Divine Artifact for one round (yuck), I take draw 2 after playing 3 cards, stupid event

Okay, I choose the side with the hellvent duplicator, but no upgrades there… caves and a new remnant unit… I get Lady of the Reformed (tank front helps with burnout when she is attacked), and we leave a lame Echo Break spell card with a traitorous Winged to get it back upgraded later… lousy random events here… I still duplicate the Bog Fly, though I wish it had burnout to accelerate its demise to boost up… dammit.. I skip the $100 for 15 shards, my shard count is 30 now

Round 3: Daedalus – Raging bogfly beats the boss on lowest level, solid.

Gains: Hmm, applying Endless is often great, but with lots of blue reform cards, I think not here… I take the infused Devourer of Death, essence is to damage all enemies by 15 when extinguished, I expect I will use that rather than the Soul-based unit itself (but maybe this should be a skip?)…and now I take a novelty card, the [url=https://monster-train.fandom.com/wiki/Bounty_Stalker[/url] so this changes the whole game I think, not sure it’s for the better (maybe just steer away next time?)

So, now I will be working hard to get the bounty stalker killed to improve its attack permanently, or maybe will fuse that essence (halfway, +4 permanently) into a Bog Fly that I already want to die a lot?
Ok, I get a Divine Temple here, so I get my shot to combine an essence…I choose the side with a Remnant Unit in hopes of something crazy there, but get another Lady, yawn… but there is a +5/+5/Burnout1 upgrade here… so maybe put that onto a Bog Fly and then merge in the Bounty stalker essence (+4 attack permanently)? I don’t love the drop from +8 to +4 but I think this is the best move I have at hand. Hmmmm, make it endless, too? I lose the temporary bump from being reformed, but it seems like that increases the chances to get it dead rapidly… I’ll do it.

I take shards to power up my Echo Breaks…maybe that’s a leak too? Not a central part of the deck maybe skip it? (I always do this, and it’s not working, so…)

Okay, now the deck is coming together. Bog fly units are the key attackers – get them dead a lot, especially the one that gains permanent bonus attacks, he’s endless for the late stages too. Consume spells don’t feel strong but one good artifact could give them damage potential or something, so maybe that still comes together.

Round 4: Protectors of the Clipped – Took damage 80 to 59, ugh. Only 2 deaths for the SuperFly, he’s now 13x2/10
Gains: Revenge of the Damned (direct damage, chance to gain echoes), and Crushing Demise kills one of ours, one of theirs, great card for any blue deck – both great additions, neither are Consume spells though

Event: Winged offers upgraded spell, I say later (lame)
Hellvent side of course, I dump a couple weak stewards and heal up 20, then we get another Divine Temple before the duplication… I make Crushing Demise free (-1 kinda) … don’t love my essence options so I drop Devourer into my Explosive tomb, which will now do 50 to the front and 15 to everyone upon demise. It’s a weapon to attack a weak back unit. Want to add power to that Revenge card too for that purpose.

So…the hellvent. Duplicating the SuperFly seems like the obvious play, get two potentially pumped up endless attackers for the later rounds is appetizing. The other choice might be the free Crushing Demise. I’m in for the Fly guy. Up to 135 shards, to baddies are going to be pretty tough.

Level 5: Harvesters of Death – SuperFlies handle the boss on level 2, no damage, smooth.
Gains: Returned Soul (bring back discarded spell, apply infused and consume), Moral Entrapment (Deal 25 and Daved 3 onto already damaged unit – nice boss killer)

Event: Winged gives me back my Echo Break, now has zero cost and “add copy to discard pile” so priority to pump that up now.
I get to forge spells here and also a Temple, fortuitous, so I give that card a +10 and piercing. Some other minor buffs, no more combining essences… we are up to 160 shards now. I’m likely done with units. I don’t feel that this deck is really strong enough to handle a big boss… need to really juice up the SuperFly cards…this is the area where my decks like these tend to get swamped.

Round 6: Fel – Baddies all get armor from Fel (better than rage), statues in front get spell shield. Guy from third wave gets through for damage down to 42. Superfly attacks up to 57 and 45… not great, but we boost them with buffs in combat, they attacked for 100+ by the end of last round.

Gains: I skip the first card, best option was a double-buffs-and-armor, all bad fits… I choose the rare red upgrade, as I’m rarely short on space now with main units only single spaced…
I choose to go for cash, spell+ and artifact…the artifact is Pyre +15 attack yawn, I upgrade a Echo Break to +50 with consume, put Holdover on Crushing Demise (!) and cheapen a couple reform spells to free. Hero now recalls two consumed spells to my hand, ought to be cycling some fairly good stuff now.

[b]Round 7: Shadewings – these guys have big defense and spikes, hide attackers behind huge front units, I have arms for this but will be tough.

Battle: bad start, two sacrificial units. I draw Crushing Demise, though so round two is better, with two Lady cards also, but no SFly cards. Things settle down, we get all thee Flies (including the two SuperFly cards with permanent boosts from each demise) in play, and the SuperFlies beat the boss on the third level, with room to spare. Solid.

Gains: Wurmkin Etchings, returns 5x consumed spells to top of draw pile, might interfere with Endless Flies, but I think I can manage that…I take Memories of the Melted (I ember for each friendly death in this battle, consumed spell, nice addition)

Ok, I get another hellvent to duplicate again, last chance at that… I’m thinking it’s the Crushing Demise with holdover, leave the two flies as “enough” there. Artifact gives Pyre +40 health, okay. We're ready for the big angel.

Round 8: Seraph the Patient – Okay, serious fight here. Shards 170 adds to the difficulty.

Battle: early unit on third floor gets through for damage down to 120. CD wipes out a unit each round, my Echo shots are pumped up enough to take out 25-health units now, so we clear wave 2 easily. Get to the relentless phase for Seraph in decent shape, with 2 SuperFly cards and a CD in hand… but that isn’t nearly enough damage to Seraph. He’s solo on level 2, and the CD is now useless… I draw a Lady who gives my Fly guys a couple extra turns, but Seraph is doing 76 trample damage and I’m only getting him down to 1850 health on this level, we will need a rabbit out of the hat on level three. Yikes.

Level three, he’s at 77T/1800 and while I have 2x Fly cards and the spell to give them +5 burnout, I need a “pain sponge” up front badly. I have two random reform cards, but I don’t think I have what I need in the deck to be honest. Pull a fucking 20/13 steward and my 175/45 Echowright…this ain’t gonna do it, I’m cooked here. His first attack will kill my whole floor. Fuck.

I must have messed up the math a bit… I will get 580 damage on him from the back Fly guys it seems (ah, they have Stealth 1) but even adding their Burnout +5 won’t save them from dying in the second cycle. So, yeah, fuck.

Seraph wins with 1200 health in reserve. He makes quick work of our Pyre, and it’s over.

Fin.

[QuikSand]

sorry that was sort of a lot

quickest if-i-could-do-over is around the SuperFly build... making them Endless felt like it would get them dead more often, but I'm not sure it did so, and they kept coming back with exactly 1 burnout... so dead but only attacking for one round even even i wanted them to stay

second thing is the early selection of the artifact adding +10 attack on death... if i had gone with the other obvious choice that "extinguish abilities trigger an additional time" that would have been MONEY with the fly guys (and it feels like it would be a force multiplier on multiple blue game-winner cards)... so that feels like a case of thinking too small

[Arles]

I also love this game. I'd recommend doing to daily challenges once you get the hang of it. I've been in the top 10 a few times and they go a little quicker than normal games (you usually get 2-3 "boosts" and 1-2 "negatives"). It's a fun way to improve as a player as you have to use the hero and factions setup for the challenge.

[thesloppy]

This thread got me reinterested and I was going to fire it up, but it turns out I had been using gamepass to play it and it is no longer a game they offer/support, so had to buy it on Steam and start fresh.

[Marmel]

This is a good game, but I think it takes 2nd place to Slay The Spire. STS is perfection.

[thesloppy]

Slay the Spire never did it for me the same way Monster Train does, for whatever reason.

[QuikSand]

Managed two more top-covenant wins on my XBox account (they had a sale, I purchased the game there)...

Level 17 Green/Blue
-won with an overwhelming array of multistrike melee fighters, mainly
-got early artifact making new units/spells come with an improvement = gold

Level 18 Blue/Green
-got the Legion of Wax, pumped him up a lot, then got him shrunk to one space
-thinned the deck a lot, mainly just won with that one card
-complemented with three "kill a non boss unit" cards

[larrymcg421]

I've already cleared Cov 25 without facing Divinity, so now starting over through Covenant and only advancing if I beat Divinity.

Cov 1 - Hellhorned/Awoken

Brawler behind Awoken Hollow, with lots of Razorsharp Edges.

Cov 2 - Awoken/Hellhorned

Spikes with Animus of Will and lots of rage/Razorsharp scaling.

Cov 3 - Stygian/Hellhorned

Luck rolled an Apex Imp. Infused it with Steelworker. Duped it twice. Win was so easy it was a little boring.