FOFC GroupThink 2023: We take over the Detroit Lions

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The Lions are the Bengals from two years ago except instead of a porous o-line they have a porous secondary.

Not sure the matchup works at the QB position, but I generally agree with the vibe here.

[JPhillips]

Yeah, definitely a vibe thing. Midwest losers finally breaking through by overachieving and limiting the damage from a giant flaw.

But, yeah, Goff is no Burrow.

[Brian Swartz]

We're one half away from me changing my response to Browns fans when they complain about their franchise.

Before: 'Please, at least you're not the Lions'

After: 'Yeah, sucks to be you indeed'.

[Brian Swartz]

Apparently one half was one too many.

Still an amazing season.

[CrimsonFox]

Guys...you're all fired

[CrimsonFox]

Let's list off all the fuckips this game and what Should have happened instead

[albionmoonlight]

I know our assistance to the Lions has formally ended. But there is one more suggestion I think they should take.

The Saints re-worked Marshon Lattimore's contract in a way that makes him tradable this offseason. (I don't know the ins and outs, but people who know how to read these things said that was the obvious intent of the way the new bonus was structured.)

The Lions will have a late first rounder and need secondary help. Lattimore is a legit #1 CB. The two knocks on him are a bit of injury history and sometimes (by his own admission) losing focus a bit if he isn't motivated.

I think that Dan Campbell can keep him motivated. And you just have to roll the dice with injury.

I see it as a win-win. The Lions get a win-now CB who will step in at a position of need and contribute more immediately than anyone they can get at #28 or whatever it is.

The Saints start the process of digging out from the oldest and most expensive roster in the league by trading a veteran with value for a good draft pick.

[CrimsonFox]

It suddenly dawned on me that maybe Ben Johnson decided to NOT persue any more head coaching jobs because he hated the options that were left.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I know our assistance to the Lions has formally ended. But there is one more suggestion I think they should take.

The Saints re-worked Marshon Lattimore's contract in a way that makes him tradable this offseason. (I don't know the ins and outs, but people who know how to read these things said that was the obvious intent of the way the new bonus was structured.)

The Lions will have a late first rounder and need secondary help. Lattimore is a legit #1 CB. The two knocks on him are a bit of injury history and sometimes (by his own admission) losing focus a bit if he isn't motivated.

I think that Dan Campbell can keep him motivated. And you just have to roll the dice with injury.

I see it as a win-win. The Lions get a win-now CB who will step in at a position of need and contribute more immediately than anyone they can get at #28 or whatever it is.

The Saints start the process of digging out from the oldest and most expensive roster in the league by trading a veteran with value for a good draft pick.

As an Ohio State grade, I'd love to get ex-TOSU Lattimore on the Leo's but early draft analysis says that this draft is deep in CBs. If we could get him for a 2nd rounder + something (even a next year 2nd), I'd love it.

[Carman Bulldog]

Pretty sure that the Saints need to wait until after June 1 to trade Lattimore. There are significant financial repercussion's if they trade him before then. After then, it's fine. So it wouldn't be this draft.

[Bobble]

I know we're done here but for any Lions fans, there's a pretty detailed breakdown of the Lions' contract status here.

[Honolulu_Blue]

We did exceptionally well. We helped lead the Lions to their best season in over half a century.

Onto the beloved Cardinals!!

[Bobble]

For lack of a better place to discuss, how we feeling about the Terrion Arnold pick? A+? A++?

I'm very excited about getting a real #1 corner and thrilled that this guy dropped ... not into our laps but dropped far enough for us to nab him right in front of the Packer's stupid faces. The perfect win/lose situation.

[QuikSand]

Trade-up for Arnold was just smart value, once the top corners dropped that far and it became affordable. Grade A here.

[Bobble]

For the Lions fans hanging around, pretty good film study of Ben Johnson's offense here. The creator, All_22_Films, is mainly a Ravens guy but does quite a bit of Lions stuff. This one goes into the audacity of what the Lions staff is willing to attempt in key situations.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I missed the Arnold discussion the first time around. Super happy with it. It was a perfect match of BPA and need.

I was, also, a fan of doubling-down on CB in the second round with Rakestraw. It was the team’s biggest area of need and the board fell in such a way that there, also, happened to be value at each pick. You can never have enough cornerbacks and the veterans on this team are mainly on one year deals (Davis and Moseley), have injury concerns (same two guys) or are unproven as full-time starters (Roberston and the rest). Drafting Arnold and Rakestraw make a ton of sense and, if they work out, could bring some long term stability to a position group that has rarely ever been stable.

The only thing that I've found a bit worrying is that all of the talk about Arnold and Rakestraw is about how much "dog" they have, their attitude, swagger, willingness to tackle and press, but very little on their speed and actual ability to cover people. They seem like perfect culture fits for the Lions and I love their willingness to hit and tackle, but if they can't cover NFL WRs then...

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I missed the Arnold discussion the first time around. Super happy with it. It was a perfect match of BPA and need.

I was, also, a fan of doubling-down on CB in the second round with Rakestraw. It was the team’s biggest area of need and the board fell in such a way that there, also, happened to be value at each pick. You can never have enough cornerbacks and the veterans on this team are mainly on one year deals (Davis and Moseley), have injury concerns (same two guys) or are unproven as full-time starters (Roberston and the rest). Drafting Arnold and Rakestraw make a ton of sense and, if they work out, could bring some long term stability to a position group that has rarely ever been stable.

The only thing that I've found a bit worrying is that all of the talk about Arnold and Rakestraw is about how much "dog" they have, their attitude, swagger, willingness to tackle and press, but very little on their speed and actual ability to cover people. They seem like perfect culture fits for the Lions and I love their willingness to hit and tackle, but if they can't cover NFL WRs then...

Agreed. I was getting flashbacks of Okudah (who I loved as a pick but the knock was that he didn't have the speed) and Teez Tabor (same draft as JRM if you can believe it). But I trust that the Lions staff have a plan on how to fit them into the defense or fit the defense to them.

On doubling down with Rakestraw, I was a little worried in the moment but Rake felt like another steal even if we end up "overstocked" at CB. There wasn't an edge rusher worth snagging at the time and we got Wingo later. Or, we could have gone OL but we end up with Mahogany later.

I will say, though, I wasn't crazy about giving up so many draft assets for a long-shot OT in Manu and an ... I'm-not-sure-what-position guy in Vaki. I don't have any particular player that I think we should have taken instead. It just seemed like a lot to give up for those guys. Trust the Villains, I guess.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Bobble

Agreed. I was getting flashbacks of Okudah (who I loved as a pick but the knock was that he didn't have the speed) and Teez Tabor (same draft as JRM if you can believe it). But I trust that the Lions staff have a plan on how to fit them into the defense or fit the defense to them.

On doubling down with Rakestraw, I was a little worried in the moment but Rake felt like another steal even if we end up "overstocked" at CB. There wasn't an edge rusher worth snagging at the time and we got Wingo later. Or, we could have gone OL but we end up with Mahogany later.

I will say, though, I wasn't crazy about giving up so many draft assets for a long-shot OT in Manu and an ... I'm-not-sure-what-position guy in Vaki. I don't have any particular player that I think we should have taken instead. It just seemed like a lot to give up for those guys. Trust the Villains, I guess.

I very much agree. I, too, can't get Teez Tabor flashbacks out of my head. Okudah it seemed was a mix of mental makeup combined with that bad injury. It was a horrible pick.

Trading a 2025 3rd rounder for Manu was really... odd. So was the move up for Vaki (the 2025 4th rounder). Manu seems to be this year's Brodric Martin. On one hand, when it comes to drafting, Holmes definitely deserves the benefit of the doubt, on the other hand trading away that kind of draft capital for a super raw project OL and a guy who played two years of college football as safety and drafting him to play running back and special teams seem like crazy reaches.

If the Lions had picked Wingo and Mahogany in the 4th and Manu and Vaki in the 6th, I think we'd feel better about it.

I was listening to the Ringer NFL show the other day and they were talking about how when teams reach for players like Manu and Vaki versus where they are slotted to go in the consensus board, it rarely ever works out. Teams over estimate their ability to scout/evaluate players and fall in love with certain players. I feel like that's exactly what happened to Holmes/Campbell here. They even admitted to as much.

I really hope these guys work out. If anyone can make the Manu pick work at the moment, it's the Lions. They have a great o-line coach, great culture, Sewell and Decker are fantastic mentors, so Manu is in a really good spot to succeed. The same could be said of Vaki. If he's got skills, Ben Johnson should be able to use him effectively.