POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

The fact that GOPers still make hay out of the media being unfair to them, despite that just no longer being true over the past 15-20 years is pretty astounding to me.

Pre-debate CBS graphic:

Grocery prices since January 2021 equated to wage growth since last September designed to make viewers think they cover the same time period.

The media is a lot of things. But anti-GOP ain't one of them.

[GrantDawg]

That graphic is so egregious . You would think it was from Newsmax.

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[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

I quit watching when it became clear Walz was just playing it safe. That might be a good strategy but Vance has made so many weird comments Walz could have been much more aggressive. I'm guessing they just want to focus on Trump though since that is 99% of the Dem strategy anyway.

I was very disappointed that Walz essentially let Vance off the hook after Vance rewrote history and said Trump saved the Affordable Care Act. On day one, Trump signed an executive order that tried to get rid of it, and on 60 occasions during his presidency he and the Republicans tried to get rid of it. The only reason they failed was John McCain's "no" vote to repeal it.

[Ben E Lou]

Hot take: if Trump manages to win NC, the post-Helene lies/mischaracterizations being spread via social media will play a decent part in it. "The national media doesn't care and isn't covering it!" "Biden and Harris are sending all our money to Ukraine and nothing to NC!" "They're needing all these volunteers because the government isn't doing ANYTHING!" This stuff is rampant here, and it seems to be landing with some folks that are likely in the independent/undecided/swing voter group.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Solid debate.

I like Vance challenging the fact checking.

I thought this was a mistake. He basically was saying "how dare you don't let me spew lies" while coming off as a misogynistic bully.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I thought this was a mistake. He basically was saying "how dare you don't let me spew lies" while coming off as a misogynistic bully.

I didn't watch the debate, but that's exactly the way everyone should have interpreted it. As someone I read pointed out, it was like the Ford-Carter SNL debate parody where Chevy Chase says, "It was my understanding that there would be no math.”

As far as the media being anti-GOP, when I visited Asheville a few weeks ago, I had a long debate with my SIL about all things political. I wouldn't call her a Trumper per se, but she's definitely full-on GOP and had a lot of hateful things to say about Kamala Harris, had no clue why anyone would think badly of JD Vance, and just basically sees the world as anti-GOP. She about fell all over herself when I challenged the idea that the media was anti-GOP.

At one point she brought up the increase in crime, which I immediately pushed back on, and she told me that she could no longer discuss anything with me if that's what I truly believe. I googled FBI stats in 5 seconds (this was before the latest FBI stats came out, but they showed the same thing), and she wouldn't even acknowledge it and we just sat watching TV in silence for about 5 minutes. Completely unhinged from reality, Trumper or no.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Hot take: if Trump manages to win NC, the post-Helene lies/mischaracterizations being spread via social media will play a decent part in it. "The national media doesn't care and isn't covering it!" "Biden and Harris are sending all our money to Ukraine and nothing to NC!" "They're needing all these volunteers because the government isn't doing ANYTHING!" This stuff is rampant here, and it seems to be landing with some folks that are likely in the independent/undecided/swing voter group.

Never mind that when trump was the President the Democratic Governor of NC requested 900m in emergency funds and trump sent just over 6m instead. But explain to them again, how he doesn't play politics with emergencies and looks our for everyone. On his visit he should have basketball shot some paper towels into the crowd and then ranted about how everyone just loved him during the visit. Again.

[NobodyHere]

FWIW I heard 3 of my younger coworkers talking about the VP debate. They don't seem to have a preference between Vance and Walz but agreed that both VP candidates did a lot better their debate than the presidential candidates did in their debate.

[SirFozzie]

This was an actual debate instead of "trainwreck TV", which the Trump-era debates have been.

Vance got at least a draw, which kinda enrages me.. This is kinda stuff that can get the fringes of the middle on both stuff to pay attention, which is good (and what I want), but then you compare it to his "Well, sometimes we have to invent stuff to make the media pay attention to us" comments, and it's just.. infuriating.

[Swaggs]

One interesting observation that I hadn't picked up on from last night was with that exchange where they cut the mics - two women I work with thought Vance came off as condescending and was "mansplaining" while missing the point of the question. And, in hindsight, the moderators seemed to receive it in, what I thought at the time, was an odd way. Knowing what I know now, I guess the reactions were more of a typical response to that behavior.

Edit to add - I doubt it moved the needle much for either side, but thought it was interesting to hear from two separate women at separate times of the day.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

This was an actual debate instead of "trainwreck TV", which the Trump-era debates have been.

Vance got at least a draw, which kinda enrages me.. This is kinda stuff that can get the fringes of the middle on both stuff to pay attention, which is good (and what I want), but then you compare it to his "Well, sometimes we have to invent stuff to make the media pay attention to us" comments, and it's just.. infuriating.

Vance is the ultimate political chameleon, and last night just cemented that status. He was able to stand there, in a convincing and composed manner, and either deflect or completely reverse his positions on almost every controversial issue that plagues him. I think Vance is just as despicable and reprehensible as Trump is, but he is shrewd and calculating enough to be looking ahead to positioning himself for 2028. Whether that comes as a sitting Vice President or a potential Republican nominee from an open field challenging Harris remains to be seen.

[Ksyrup]

This has been the concern all along - someone who is actually interested in governing in an extreme manner (as opposed to Trump, who really just cares about the money and power trip) and can channel Trump's worst impulses, but has way more brains and self-control to hide/deflect it when necessary.

I don't know if Vance is going to be that person, but eventually he or someone else is going to take that mantle from Trump and possibly be way more effective at wrecking our country than Trump has been or will be.