POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

What inconveniences you enough about illegal immigration that you're willing to stomach the thought of checkpoints and camps? Is it their proclivity towards committing less crime? The taxation without representation? Our nation's lowest personal tax rates ever? Providing cheap labor for the service industries?

You asked a similar question and I answered in the other thread. Start from post #307 and read down.

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - Biden's Immigration Reform

Oh, before there is a cry that I'm messing up this thread, no problem in going into immigration thread if you want. Just let me know.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

You've already provided a scenario where she is detained for an undetermined amount of time. That's pretty fucking bad given that she's done nothing wrong.

If you are referring to the car stopping one, watch police YT videos. It's happening now and pretty normal for citizens.

So if you want to discuss other scenarios that you think your daughter's rights will be infringed, share it.

[JPhillips]

Sometimes the police shoot innocent people, so it's no big deal if they do that to someone.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Sometimes the police shoot innocent people, so it's no big deal if they do that to someone.

Let's not deflect and go back to your original statement that I reacted to

Originally Posted by JPhillips

dola

Trump is now saying he'll invoke the Alien Enemies Act. The last time that was used was to intern Japanese during WW2.

Wonder if Dutch still thinks I'm overreacting to be nervous about my Chinese daughter's future.

I'll ask for a fourth time ...

But let's get back to your original worry about your legally adopted, naturalized daughter. Explain to me how she will be threatened with expulsion, imprisonment/internment etc.

[JPhillips]

I've done this several times.

She's asked for proof of citizenship.

She doesn't have it on her, she does have her license but that doesn't prove citizenship.

She's detained.

After that I don't know what might happen. There are no details other than mass detention and deportation.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I've done this several times.

She's asked for proof of citizenship.

Tell me in what situation you see where she is asked for proof of citizenship? Layout the scenario.

[JPhillips]

Could be a traffic stop could be like stop and frisk. Could be other people call her in as suspicious. Again, there are no details so we don't know what might happen.

I need her to be ready for whatever might happen.

Mass detention camps on day 1.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Could be a traffic stop could be like stop and frisk. Could be other people call her in as suspicious. Again, there are no details so we don't know what might happen.

I need her to be ready for whatever might happen.

Mass detention camps on day 1.

Okay, specific to police car stop scenario. I've provided how I think it'll be most likely played out per police YT videos I've seen. I don't see anything wrong with it as asking for identification is what's happening now to white, black, brown, yellow etc. regardless of national origin or religion etc.

For other people reporting her because she is suspicious, happens all the time right now also. Again, see police car stop, shoplifting, public nuisance etc. scenarios. Most of the time, resolved without a big deal.

I think the main difference is you don't believe police should be asking for proof of citizenship?

[JPhillips]

There's no fucking plan!

That's the problem. You assume people will have legal remedies, but Trump hasn't said that. He's just said he's going to have the power to detain and deport and he's going to open camps on day 1. Trump hasn't said anything about a legal process playing out.

And ID isn't, for most people, proof of citizenship. A regular driver's license isn't good enough. Most people don't carry proof of citizenship on them.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Edward64

You asked a similar question and I answered.

You clearly did not answer the question.

EDIT: I guess you answered that it doesn't effect you in any way, but you still have strong opinions about it. That's a pretty weak answer in terms of justification for camps and checkpoints.

[dubb93]

How can you so confidently argue something that zero details have been provided. At some point you need to listen to what is being said and stop filling in the blanks.

Trumps says mass detainment and deportation he means it. Mass.

Trump says the election is stolen and his people are going to go to Congress and make that point be heard. He means it. Stop filling the blanks with how you feel. Thats how we get things like Jan. 6. Listen. Don’t talk over.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

You clearly did not answer the question.

EDIT: I guess you answered that it doesn't effect you in any way, but you still have strong opinions about it. That's a pretty weak answer in terms of justification for camps and checkpoints.

Per #317, I didn't say it "doesn't effect me in any way". I said it doesn't impact by daily life (which was your orig question) but I did answer how it did impact me indirectly (e.g. not my daily life).

So, in summary. I have answered how illegal immigration impacts me (but not on a daily basis). I have also proposed the answer for you on how illegal immigration will impact you "in any significant way" ... if pathway to citizenship is realized, the 11M will affect you as a partisan Dem or Rep in significant ways in future elections.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Well, you shouldn't be. Everything you've posted on this page is about as unAmerican as one can be.

Honestly, I've never been convinced he's not sitting offshore in some troll farm. From DAY 1 here his posts have been "asking questions" about potentially divisive issues.

And if he's not, he certainly acts like he thinks like one.

(Whatever the response, have at it. This ain't gonna change: This user is on your Ignore List.)

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

And ID isn't, for most people, proof of citizenship. A regular driver's license isn't good enough. Most people don't carry proof of citizenship on them.

True. As stated, to make this work, there needs to be a citizenship database. And if we can get a gun/background check database done, we can get a citizenship database done. But it won't happen in Day 1.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

(Whatever the response, have at it. This ain't gonna change: This user is on your Ignore List.)

Ditto.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by dubb93

How can you so confidently argue something that zero details have been provided. At some point you need to listen to what is being said and stop filling in the blanks.

Trumps says mass detainment and deportation he means it. Mass.

Do you think he means for illegals or also for foreign born, naturalized citizens? Because my response was specific to JPhillips comment re: his foreign born, naturalized daughter.

Trump says the election is stolen and his people are going to go to Congress and make that point be heard. He means it. Stop filling the blanks with how you feel. Thats how we get things like Jan. 6. Listen. Don’t talk over.

No doubt he's wrong here.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Do you think he means for illegals or also for foreign born, naturalized citizens? Because my response was specific to JPhillips comment re: his foreign born, naturalized daughter.


No doubt he's wrong here.

The point was people took what he was saying and twisted it to a way that made sense to themselves when he said exactly what he was going to do. You are doing the same thing here. It doesn’t matter what I think. It only matters what he thinks and if you listen to him he will tell you what he thinks.

This is the same way we get good people, church going people who have spent their lives helping others able to justify being a Trumper. “Oh he didn’t mean that he means this…”

He means what he says. You don’t know him so stop talking for him.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by dubb93

The point was people took what he was saying and twisted it to a way that made sense to themselves when he said exactly what he was going to do. You are doing the same thing here. It doesn’t matter what I think. It only matters what he thinks and if you listen to him he will tell you what he thinks.

This is the same way we get good people, church going people who have spent their lives helping others able to justify being a Trumper. “Oh he didn’t mean that he means this…”

He means what he says. You don’t know him so stop talking for him.

Take it FWIW.

I am saying that Trump wants to get rid of illegal immigrants. He has definitely said this.

The debate is whether Trump wants to get rid of legal immigrants.

Based on some stuff he has said, he does for specific groups. Haitians have legal status, asylum seekers have legal status and cases like that. He has said this so no doubt he wants to do something here.

The real question, which is from JPhillips original comment concerning his daughter, does he need to worry about Trump doing something to legal, foreign born, naturalized citizens. I see little evidence of this. I don't think he has to worry about his daughter.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I don't think he has to worry about his daughter.

Serious question? Why are you so weirdly worried about his daughter. To the point you are arguing with him about what you think he heard and about what someone you don’t know meant to say.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Serious question? Why are you so weirdly worried about his daughter. To the point you are arguing with him about what you think he heard and about what someone you don’t know meant to say.

I'm not worried about his daughter's legal, naturalized status at all. All my responses were towards his original statement below because I disagreed with it. The discussion broadened even though I was trying to keep it specific to his worry for his daughter.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

dola

Trump is now saying he'll invoke the Alien Enemies Act. The last time that was used was to intern Japanese during WW2.

Wonder if Dutch still thinks I'm overreacting to be nervous about my Chinese daughter's future.

[Lathum]

Edward would have 100% reported his neighbors in Nazi Germany then let the system work itself out while they were shipped to concentration camps.

[Flasch186]

I remember this


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[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Edward would have 100% reported his neighbors in Nazi Germany then let the system work itself out while they were shipped to concentration camps.

Nope.

The only source (not meant to be convincing to you but just a data point) I can give you is I didn’t report the migrants (likely illegal) that built houses in our subdivision. On multiple occasions, I found their family sheltered in my basement while my and neighbors house was being built.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Nope.

The only source (not meant to be convincing to you but just a data point) I can give you is I didn’t report the migrants (likely illegal) that built houses in our subdivision. On multiple occasions, I found their family sheltered in my basement while my and neighbors house was being built.

You blaming immigrants, who presumably were not paid well enough to afford (or be given) housing, rather than the builders who employed them is not the flex you think it is. I’m sure you got a good price on the house (certainly cheaper than if you had hired red white and blue Americans who were tragically forced out of their jobs by the illegals) and it’s cool that they can be discarded now, though.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

You blaming immigrants, who presumably were not paid well enough to afford (or be given) housing, rather than the builders who employed them is not the flex you think it is. I’m sure you got a good price on the house (certainly cheaper than if you had hired red white and blue Americans who were tragically forced out of their jobs by the illegals) and it’s cool that they can be discarded now, though.

In my personal example, I’m certainly not blaming the illegal immigrants for using my basement.

If you read my other discussions, I acknowledge we need migrant labor. I just want to use legal guest worker program (no path to citizenship). Also, in my other discussions, you’ll see that I’ve said we need to address supply and the demand side.