NASA/Space thread

[Edward64]

FWIW a top 10 list of where to find life.

Mars is actually #1 followed by #2 Europa.

https://www.technologyreview.com/202...system-ranked/

The best places to find extraterrestrial life in our solar system, ranked
If there’s alien life nearby, where are we most likely to find it?

[Edward64]

Sept 24.

Day we may find some extraterrestial life.

The article also talks about how/what the recovery steps are which I thought interesting.

OSIRIS-REx sample return: What to expect | The Planetary Society

After a seven-year journey to asteroid Bennu and back, NASA’s OSIRIS-REx spacecraft is returning to Earth with a coffee mug-sized sample of rocks and dust that could help us understand our very origins.

OSIRIS-REx is scheduled to drop off its precious cargo on Sept. 24, 2023

Okay, I may be exaggerating, but interesting quote ...

The OSIRIS-REx team will take samples of the soil and air at the landing site. These will be vital later if scientists detect the molecular precursors to life in the Bennu samples. By comparing these important findings with sample site readings, the team can ensure the samples don’t contain Earthly contaminants.

This is what it looks like

[Edward64]

Capsule with asteroid samples touching down Sun 10:55am ET. If you live in Utah, look outside ...

Frakking amazing science & math.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nasa-as...-earth-sunday/

... the capsule decelerates along a trajectory toward a 37-mile-long landing zone at the Army's Dugway Proving Ground and Utah Test and Training Range.

... it's expected to descend to a gentle 11-mph touchdown at 10:55 a.m. ET, bringing a seven-year, four-billion-mile journey to an end.

[GrantDawg]

So that is where the zombie infection is going to come from?

[Edward64]

I read an article that documented the process to "securely" recover the samples, avoid contamination etc.

But yeah, if somehow it breaks up over California & Utah, watch out ...

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Sept 24.

Day we may find some extraterrestial life.

The article also talks about how/what the recovery steps are which I thought interesting.

OSIRIS-REx sample return: What to expect | The Planetary Society

Okay, I may be exaggerating, but interesting quote ...



This is what it looks like

let's call him patient zero

[Brian Swartz]

Another positive for the possibility of life on Europa; James Webb has detected carbon dioxide from an 'internal source', that is originating from the oceans there. There lots of words like 'think' and 'implies' in the statements, but still encouraging.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

let's call him patient zero

That is pretty

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Another positive for the possibility of life on Europa; James Webb has detected carbon dioxide from an 'internal source', that is originating from the oceans there. There lots of words like 'think' and 'implies' in the statements, but still encouraging.

Looked it up. Nice.

You know how India was able to put a rover on the Moon for < $100M ... NASA should team up with them and outsource the production of probes. I get the quality control may not be up to NASA's standards, but does that really matter when talking about probes (e.g. not astronauts) and India can probably produce 10+ for what it costs us to produce 1?

James Webb telescope finds potential signature of life on Jupiter's icy moon Europa | Live Science

Europa, which is a little bit smaller than Earth's moon, is covered with a crust of water ice enveloping a saltwater ocean. The presence of liquid water makes Europa an intriguing object of exploration for scientists interested in extraterrestrial life. But until now, no one had shown that the ocean contained the proper molecules, particularly carbon, which is a fundamental building block of life on Earth.

The new detection by JWST is intriguing because the carbon dioxide does not seem to have been carried by a meteorite or asteroid, and it appears in a geologically young region of the moon called Tara Regio, suggesting the gas may have formed within the moon itself.

[Edward64]

For those interested, NASA live stream (starts at 10am ET)

OSIRIS-REx Asteroid Sample Return (Official 4K NASA Broadcast)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdwyqctp908

[Brian Swartz]

Re: outsourcing probes, I don't think that's a good idea. Quality control may or may not be an issue, but I do think that's still important with unmanned probes. The associated PR if a mission fails, launching the probe in the first place is a big deal and far worse than the monetary cost.

- Probes aren't actually that expensive compared to the big picture; even a more expensive one like Perseverance cost less than 10% of NASA's annual budget, which is a half a percent or less of the total federal budget. In the grand scheme of things we are spending very very little on these. Still better to get them cheaper obviously, but basically these aren't amounts that matter much.

- Outsourcing the production also means giving away the technology we are developing and using. No thanks.

I'm all in favor of doing joint endeavors with other countries, and hopefully eventually just doing all of humanity's space endeavors under one unified effort. But just having them build stuff for us to do it cheaper? Nah.

[Thomkal]

Before the probe lands and infects us all, I'd just like to say its been an honor knowing you all.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

- Outsourcing the production also means giving away the technology we are developing and using. No thanks.

Yeah, you're right. India is far behind in space technology but no doubt they can catch up quicker if given a jump start.

FWIW. I'm watching the NASA live-stream right now. Queen's Brian May just showed up, he's a fan and got a book out about this. Pretty cool.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Before the probe lands and infects us all, I'd just like to say its been an honor knowing you all.

Well. some of you.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

But yeah, if somehow it breaks up over California & Utah, watch out ...

Parachute deployed, no unexpected breakup.

I think we're safe from any space virus. Next step, transport to the Wuhan labs.

[Thomkal]

NASA's Twitter thread seems to have some good pics of the probe landing and recovery.

[Edward64]

Welp, its been about 47 hours since landing. I assume this means they didn't find a space worm, ant etc. in their sample.

Next steps are:

The Bennu sample – an estimated 8.8 ounces, or 250 grams – will be transported in its unopened canister by aircraft to NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston on Monday, Sept. 25. Curation scientists there will disassemble the canister, extract and weigh the sample, create an inventory of the rocks and dust, and, over time, distribute pieces of Bennu to scientists worldwide.

[Edward64]

First look.

Scientists just opened the lid to NASA’s asteroid sample canister | Ars Technica

The lid is open on the OSIRIS-REx sample return canister, revealing a tantalizing ring of dust outside the main sample collection chamber.

"By Friday, we should have a pretty good sense of what the quick-look analysis is telling us (about the dust)," Lauretta said. "First of all, do we, in fact, have asteroid dust? That's the first thing. Is it the kind of material that we expected, based on the remote sensing that we did at the asteroid? And how does that feed into our sample analysis plan, which we've been writing over the past two years in great detail?

"That's just the dust that we can visibly see right now. The real treasure is inside TAGSAM, which we're not going to get access to until probably late next week, and that is going to be a very deliberative process to figure out what is the nature of that collection, and how do we fairly distribute it to our international partners, to the science team for OSIRIS-REx, and also preserve the long-term integrity for future researchers."

[Edward64]

NASA's press team is really doing a crappy job. They need to hire some PR firm to help them out.

I realized I hadn't seen an update lately on the samples so dug around. Wed Oct 11 press conference.

NASA to Host Asteroid Sample Media Call; Provide Experts for Interviews - NASA

Following a public unveiling of the United States’ first asteroid sample at 11 a.m. EDT Wednesday, Oct. 11, NASA will host a media teleconference and separate in-person interviews in English and Spanish with experts from the agency and the University of Arizona.
:
The unveiling event at NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston will air live on NASA TV, the NASA app, and the agency’s website.

The media teleconference will begin at 2:30 pm EDT and include members of the OSIRIS-REx science team. Audio of the call will stream live at:

NASA TV Live - NASA

In addition, subject matter experts are available for interviews beginning at 2:30 p.m. CDT (3:30 p.m. EDT), Oct. 11, in-person and remotely:

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

NASA's press team is really doing a crappy job. They need to hire some PR firm to help them out.

I realized I hadn't seen an update lately on the samples so dug around. Wed Oct 11 press conference.

NASA to Host Asteroid Sample Media Call; Provide Experts for Interviews - NASA

The NASA scientist study the sample has supposedly requested "more brains."

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Edward64

NASA's press team is really doing a crappy job. They need to hire some PR firm to help them out.

To publicize what? There's not much to say about the asteroid sample yet. Certainly nothing that the average person would care about. Japan has already done this kind of thing, albeit in smaller amounts.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

To publicize what? There's not much to say about the asteroid sample yet. Certainly nothing that the average person would care about. Japan has already done this kind of thing, albeit in smaller amounts.

In addition to doing the science they are committed to, if I was head of NASA, I'd want to take every opportunity to (1) promote NASA's people & accomplishments and (2) create/feed the excitement with those already predisposed to be excited about science, space exploration etc.

To answer your question, they've had it for 2 weeks now. We've had pretty much zippo news or updates. They should be widely pushing out what information they have. The best way of doing that (for the targeted group), is leveraging what is already there. The infrastructure is already ready to go, relatively low cost.

• StarTalk with Neil/Chuck, Joe Scott and any other influencers (incl. international) that have X number of subscribers.

Do the chat with Neil. Even if there aren't any completed analysis, plenty of people would be interested in seeing more pictures, Patreon subscribers doing Q&A with the scientists, learning what tests have been (or will be) run, where is Osiris going to next and that other asteroid, bring in the scientists from the other countries that are supposed to be getting samples etc.

Neil & Chuck will take care of the rest (they always do). I'd bet any of those influencers will move things around to make room for a NASA chat. After StarTalk, rinse and repeat.

So, I would approach it as a marketing/sales campaign to generate interest. IMO what I'm getting is a bunch of tech/nerds that don't know how (or don't think it's important) to communicate to the regular people.


Bonus: have a live feed of the capsule & publicize the opening and taking out the samples, or any other key activities. If there are security concerns, then time delay it (e.g. if a space worm crawls out unexpectedly).

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Edward64

To answer your question, they've had it for 2 weeks now. We've had pretty much zippo news or updates.

A lot of that is it just being a slow process. Science inherently is. It's like how after JWST takes a 'picture' of whatever, actually getting that in a form where it can be reasonably shown to the public takes time, and often there isn't .... anything interesting to show. It takes a few months if people are working really hard and quickly on it to analyze the data and get research papers done, at which point new proposals are made for like 6-12 months after that in terms of what we'd like to get more data on based on what the first round of images found.

Stuff like live camera of opening the capsule ... I mean what's in it is rocks and dust, almost certainly visually indistinguishable from the average person's backyard. Potentially interesting science takes a lot longer that two weeks to even get started on. It's like the camera they put on Artemis I. People threw a fit that JWST didn't have one, even though it would have compromised the mission, and then the Artemis camera was ... aggressively boring and largely ignored, because of course it was, because you can get a lot more information from telemetry than a live feed when 99.99% of the time there is nothing visually interesting happening whatsoever.

It feels to me like what's being looked for is something that moves at the speed of modern news/social media. Science is not that and never will be. They have people going on shows like StarTalk all the time and talking about actual results, which is when it matters. As soon as new findings come out about this or that there are plenty of creators putting out information - and disinformation about it, and talking about what it all means, and interviewing relevant people. There's even been plenty of that ahead of time, with various creators talking about what tests on the material in the capsule would be done and so on, and why they weren't even going to start trying to open it for a week after it landing, and all of that fun stuff.

I'm not saying NASA is perfect on this or anything, but I don't really see anything of much value they could add. Speculation on the unknown, and completely un-visually interesting feeds don't add much. You can't do an effective marketing campaign on the timescale science happens at. People don't have that much of an attention span.

.02

ETA: From NASA's blog on OSIRIS-REx:

Originally Posted by Rachel Barry, Johnson Space Center

Over the coming weeks, the curation team will move the TAGSAM head into a different specialized glovebox where they will undertake the intricate process of disassembly to ultimately reveal the bulk sample within.

In other words, we're talking a period of months from touchdown to even getting the majority of the material out of the equipment it's kept in. And that's before you even *start* to do tests on it.

[Brian Swartz]

FWIW, they have a news conference 11 am today where NASA and OSIRIS-REx specific people will discuss the sample. For whatever reason, media representatives will see live feed of the sample, to the extent any of it can be seen yet, but it doesn't look like they are just going to broadcast that feed.

Maybe I'll be wrong and they will have highly useful/dramatic info, but I doubt it.

FWIW people to be there are:

- NASA Administrator Bill Nelson
- Francis McCubbin, OSIRIS-REx deputy curation lead, NASA Johnson
- Daniel Glavin, OSIRIS-REx sample analysis lead, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt
- Dante Lauretta, OSIRIS-REx principal investigator, University of Arizona, Tucson

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

If there are security concerns, then time delay it (e.g. if a space worm crawls out unexpectedly).

Unfortunately, no space worm (or ant, beetle, bug, spider) ...

NASA reveals a pristine sample collected from a near-Earth asteroid | CNN

“The first analysis shows samples that contain abundant water in the form of hydrated clay minerals, and they contain carbon as both minerals and organic molecules,” Nelson said. “Far exceeding our goal of 60 grams, this is the biggest carbon-rich asteroid sample ever return to Earth. The carbon and water molecules are exactly the kinds of material that we wanted to find. They’re crucial elements in the formation of our own planet. And they’re going to help us determine the origin of elements that could have led to life.”

Okay on the 2 years, just give us monthly or bi-monthly updates ...

For the next two years, the mission’s science team will continue characterizing the samples and conduct the analysis needed to meet the mission’s science goals.

[Edward64]

Nice. Hope there's enough content to keep my interest.

Space Out: New Series Coming Soon to NASA+ - YouTube

Turn on, tune in, and space out to relaxing music and ultra-high-definition visuals of the cosmos, from the surface of Mars to a Uranian sunset.

“Space Out” Episode 1 drops Nov 8 on NASA+: NASA+ - NASA

NASA+ is our new no-cost, no ads streaming service. No subscription required.

[Edward64]

So after a month and a half, hatch is still stuck.

Osiris-Rex: Nasa's asteroid mission 'gathers smaller sample'

"Part of the team has gone off to design new tools to open the TagSam and we'll do that next year."

Nasa's director of planetary science, Dr Lori Glaze, said those tools, which will provide the required extra torque, would need not just to be fabricated but also then tested. It won't be a quick process, therefore.

"The samples are a few billions of years old; they can wait another few weeks," she added.

And they estimate less than hoped for but still decent.

What the researchers have been able to do, however, is weigh the TagSam. And, knowing its mass prior to collecting the sample, they can now say the hidden Bennu contents probably comprise 120g, give or take 20g.

So, rather than the 250g total, the mission may now be looking at "only" 170g.

[Edward64]

Artemis pushed back about a year.

The new dates, according to NASA Associate Administrator Jim Free, are:

• September 2025: Artemis II crew flight around the Moon and back in a free-return trajectory
• September 2026: Artemis III crewed lunar landing, with two astronauts going down to the surface in SpaceX's Starship lander
• September 2028: Artemis IV crewed mission, first flight using upgraded version of Space Launch System rocket, lunar landing in Starship

[Brian Swartz]

Thanks. It seemed to me that it was likely they would push it back, but I thought it would be after Artemis II.

[Edward64]

Yeah, it is unfortunate. Apparently, 3 concerns. I'm gonna be honest. I don't trust NASA as much anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if the root cause is bureaucracy, analysis-paralysis, lack of accountability etc. And definitely, lack of urgency.

After 2-3 months, no update on OsirisRex Bennu capsule that I could find, and I think the lid is still "stuck". If the US rocket science eggheads & engineers can't open the lid by now, something is wrong and I doubt it's from the lack of ideas.

Also, on concern #1 below highlighted section. They've known of the problem since Dec 2022 and they are still "making good progress on understanding what caused that erosion". Smells like a little BS to me.

Just my .02 cents.

Page not found - SpaceNews.

Three specific issues drove the delay in Artemis 2, said Amit Kshatriya, NASA deputy associate administrator for the Moon to Mars Program. One was unexpected erosion of material on the Orion capsule’s heat shield during reentry on Artemis 1 in December 2022, which the agency had previously reported. He said the agency was making good progress on understanding what caused that erosion and expected to find a root cause by the spring, but needed more time to synthesize the data and update models before flying again.

A second issue involves components for the capsule’s life support system. Inspections of hardware delivered for the spacecraft that will fly the Artemis 3 mission found failures in circuitry that drives valves. “When we examined it, we recognized there was a design flaw in that circuit,” he said. “Those valve electronics affect many parts of the life support system on the spacecraft,” including systems that remove carbon dioxide.

A third issue is associated with the launch abort system for Orion, which allows it to escape a malfunctioning Space Launch System. In some cases where the abort system is triggered, there would be “deficiencies” in the electrical system on Orion.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

After 2-3 months, no update on OsirisRex Bennu capsule that I could find, and I think the lid is still "stuck". If the US rocket science eggheads & engineers can't open the lid by now, something is wrong and I doubt it's from the lack of ideas.

Speak of the devil. Halleluiah! Finally figured it out 3+ months.

https://www.livescience.com/space/sp...-seeds-of-life

After months of prying and jimmying, NASA scientists have at last opened the canister containing material scraped from the "potentially hazardous" asteroid Bennu, the agency announced on Thursday (Jan. 11).

The sample — roughly 8.8 ounces (250 grams) of rocky space rubble collected by the OSIRIS-REx spacecraft — is thought to contain some of the earliest precursors to life and is the first chunk of a space rock ever grabbed by a NASA mission.

NASA had already collected 2.5 ounces (70 g) of the sample from the canister's lid, but two stuck fasteners stopped scientists from reaching the material inside. After creating new tools to remove the stubborn clasps, NASA engineers finally unsealed the container on Wednesday (Jan. 10).

And the next steps are ...

Now that the box has been opened, NASA says it will follow a "few additional disassembly steps" before it can photograph, extract, weigh and process the remaining sample. Small pieces scraped from the lid have already been sent around the world for analysis, and will soon be followed by the contents found inside.

[Edward64]

Congrats Japan. Hope it goes well.

Japan’s SLIM ‘Moon Sniper’ spacecraft prepares for historic lunar landing | CNN

The Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency’s Smart Lander for Investigating Moon, or SLIM, is expected to touch down on the lunar surface at 10:20 a.m. ET Friday, or 12:20 a.m. Saturday Japan Standard Time. If successful, SLIM’s landing will mark Japan’s first time putting a robotic explorer on the moon’s surface — and make it the third country to achieve such a feat in the 21st century, and the fifth country to soft-land a spacecraft on the moon since the Soviet Luna 9 mission in 1966.

[Edward64]

Moon landing today.

Timing on this tricky landing attempt has been a moving target: Touchdown is expected at 6:24 p.m. ET, according to the latest update from Intuitive Machines, the Houston-based company that developed the spacecraft.

Watch the stream below

Intuitive Machines-1 Lunar Landing | NASA+

[Edward64]

[Edward64]

Rooting for the Mars landing and base to happen.

Just a moment...

While talking about the first reusable spaceship achievement, and the fact that its tonnage costs for a trip to Mars need to be much lower, Elon Musk casually mentioned that he envisions the first manned Starship flight to Mars will happen in 2028.

First, however, SpaceX will use the next available window for a Mars flight in 2026 to send a Starship without a crew to test all the landing assumptions that the space company has been researching in the past few years. If all goes well, SpaceX will use every successive time slot that is suitable for a Mars flight to send more people, and create the first "self-sustainable" city on Mars in about 20 years.

[Brian Swartz]

One of my curiosities is what happens when - I think it's almost certainly a when, not an if - the first casualties are reported from such a Mars colony effort. I'm also very curious what the plans are for psychological training to avoid a repeat of the biosphere fiascos, since that would be an utter disaster there.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

One of my curiosities is what happens when - I think it's almost certainly a when, not an if - the first casualties are reported from such a Mars colony effort. I'm also very curious what the plans are for psychological training to avoid a repeat of the biosphere fiascos, since that would be an utter disaster there.

Good question, don't know. But I hope there's plenty of lessons learn, more living space, more colonists, Civ VII etc. to minimize the inevitable issues.



Congrats to SpaceX Polaris Dawn rich guy being first private citizen to do a space walk.

[Edward64]

Cool ... very cool.

See around 1:35

[Brian Swartz]

Europa Clipper launched successfully, solar array unfolded properly. ETA in the Jupiter 'system' is April 2030, after a flyby of Mars and then Earth to pick up speed. Gonna be a long five years for those of us interested in the potential for aquatic life on Europa.

[Edward64]

Pretty cool, hope for an a-ha moment. But I've always been disappointed in the end result of "search for life" missions.

Even if they find the trace chemicals, evidence for life, it won't really be real unless they have a pics/video of the microbes (or whatever) moving around.

... which means another 5-6 year mission.

[Brian Swartz]

I don't think pics/videos are necessary to make it real, but just in case there might be confusion, this mission isn't meant to prove that there is life. It's rather to assess the likelihood and as you say, lay the ground work for the future. How thick is the ice, is there an ocean underneath it and if so how deep is it, general geology of Europa, and so on.

A lot of this stuff just happens on a very long timeline because there's no way to get to Jupiter quickly for a 'snap' mission that you can't even seriously start designing until this one sends back data. Easy to forget in the 'instant news' generation how big space is and that things just take decades or longer to accomplish.