POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Trump picked the best person he thought would be a VP and it showed in the VP debate. Harris was picked because of identity politics. I’d argue that any time you don’t pick the best person but you want to pander it’s less qualifying.

Trump was more qualified in 2016 because he was elected as the Republican candidate. Harris was selected, not elected, as VP and then selected, not elected, as the Democratic candidate. One is qualified by the people and one is qualified by the party elites. We saw the result in 2016 and then again in 2024.

By all accounts Trump picked the guy he thought would best appeal to young men. Initially Vance was easily the most disliked VP nominee ever.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Trump picked the best person he thought would be a VP and it showed in the VP debate. Harris was picked because of identity politics. I’d argue that any time you don’t pick the best person but you want to pander it’s less qualifying.

Trump was more qualified in 2016 because he was elected as the Republican candidate. Harris was selected, not elected, as VP and then selected, not elected, as the Democratic candidate. One is qualified by the people and one is qualified by the party elites. We saw the result in 2016 and then again in 2024.

Your double standard is obvious. By your own standard, Harris' debate performance against Trump and Pence demonstrated she was qualified.

Kamala Harris seen as winner in post-debate CNN poll | CNN Politics

[Mota]

Trump is like a racist and misogynist variant of Stone Cold Steve Austin. Other people that have these beliefs can relate to him.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Now, you're thinking, Trump isn't any of those things. He's not likeable

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Depends on who you ask.

I was writing too quickly to be nuanced, but I meant "likeable in the traditional sense". It's like when people say he doesn't have charisma, but he absolutely does. Just because his charisma doesn't work on "you", doesn't mean he doesn't have it.

For many, I believe he's the most relatable candidate in decades.

I had been looking for the right word, and "relatable" nails it, I think, for the reasons both you & RM lay out.

When he started out, people described Trump as a guy who was happy to say things that a large chunk of America was told they were not allowed to say. Or, alternatively, he's a walking, talking ID for a large chunk of America. Of course they're going to like that. That's populism. It works.

[larrymcg421]

Kari Lake might actually win. The margin has narrowed significantly.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

By all accounts Trump picked the guy he thought would best appeal to young men.

For whatever it's worth, on Wednesday at my daughter's high school, the male athletes--both black and white, but mostly black--were crowing, high-fiving one another, and telling any and everyone who'd listen that they would never, ever, ever vote for a woman, women shouldn't be able to vote, etc. etc. etc. It's a small demo, of course, but because of reclassing, a significant percentage of male upperclassmen high school athletes here were eligible to vote. (Many of the better basketball players in particular around here are playing at least part of their senior season at age 19.) Based on what my daughter reported--in a county that Harris won 60-38--it seemed like the young bro Andrew-Tate-influenced male vote went HEAVILY to Trump. I've seen "under 30" splits, but now I'd be quite curious to see the under 23ish (i.e. high school and college) male breakdown. Another anecdote: the former youth pastor at our church here was a YoungLife guy, working on the ground directly with a ton of adolescent males like I did, for 15-20 years. (He was part-time with YL and part-time with our church for his last few years officially with YL.) He told me in heavy lament 5ish years ago that he was losing the attention/involvement of males both in his outreach work with YL and in his youth group, mainly to porn, video games, and Andrew Tate. Yes, he specifically mentioned Tate right there with porn and gaming.

[cuervo72]

Still got that dad shotgun ready? (If that'll even do it these days?)

I'll tell ya, a big part of me was relieved when I heard the Younger Child wasn't interested in guys.

[GrantDawg]

Black people across US receive racist text messages after Trump’s win | US elections 2024 | The Guardian

[RainMaker]

Looks like Garland is going to have to boot up that laptop and fire off another sternly worded letter.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

For whatever it's worth, on Wednesday at my daughter's high school, the male athletes--both black and white, but mostly black--were crowing, high-fiving one another, and telling any and everyone who'd listen that they would never, ever, ever vote for a woman, women shouldn't be able to vote, etc. etc. etc. It's a small demo, of course, but because of reclassing, a significant percentage of male upperclassmen high school athletes here were eligible to vote. (Many of the better basketball players in particular around here are playing at least part of their senior season at age 19.) Based on what my daughter reported--in a county that Harris won 60-38--it seemed like the young bro Andrew-Tate-influenced male vote went HEAVILY to Trump. I've seen "under 30" splits, but now I'd be quite curious to see the under 23ish (i.e. high school and college) male breakdown. Another anecdote: the former youth pastor at our church here was a YoungLife guy, working on the ground directly with a ton of adolescent males like I did, for 15-20 years. (He was part-time with YL and part-time with our church for his last few years officially with YL.) He told me in heavy lament 5ish years ago that he was losing the attention/involvement of males both in his outreach work with YL and in his youth group, mainly to porn, video games, and Andrew Tate. Yes, he specifically mentioned Tate right there with porn and gaming.

I think a lot of the problems with young men are self-inflicted. I see a lot of guys not willing to work for anything and with no goal either short or long term. They don't have much of any ability to overcome obstacles.

So they put the blame on others and do little to change their circumstances.

[RainMaker]

You reach adulthood and realize you'll be paying off your student loans for the next 30 years, buying a home is nearly impossible, it's difficult to support a family with depressed wages, and the climate is hitting a point of no return that they'll have to deal with the consequences of. Meanwhile the people who gutted everything for themselves the past 40 years are calling you lazy.

I don't really know what to make of Tate and others. Teenagers are often drawn to that "edgy" kind of content. I think a lot of us grew up with shock jocks, vulgar comedians, and anti-establishment figures. It's kind of a prime demographic for that. I feel like most people will just grow out of it but who knows?

Feels like a generation that was largely abandoned and ignored and they'll turn their attention to anyone that acts like they care.

[Dutch]

Obviously super stoked to see Americans shine in the election. I know the majority here are struggling with the result but you know what? It will be alright. The two-party system is alive and well.

[RainMaker]

Really good and damning interview.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/08/u...interview.html

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

You reach adulthood and realize you'll be paying off your student loans for the next 30 years, buying a home is nearly impossible, it's difficult to support a family with depressed wages, and the climate is hitting a point of no return that they'll have to deal with the consequences of. Meanwhile the people who gutted everything for themselves the past 40 years are calling you lazy.

I don't really know what to make of Tate and others. Teenagers are often drawn to that "edgy" kind of content. I think a lot of us grew up with shock jocks, vulgar comedians, and anti-establishment figures. It's kind of a prime demographic for that. I feel like most people will just grow out of it but who knows?

Feels like a generation that was largely abandoned and ignored and they'll turn their attention to anyone that acts like they care.

The guys who care about climate change aren't voting Trump. Only 40% of college aged men are in college. Most young men aren't worried about student loans.

Tate's a sex trafficker and rapist, so fuck that guy.

[thesloppy]

The obvious irony is, I can't imagine all that Andrew Tate rhetoric is making them more attractive to the girls.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Obviously super stoked to see Americans shine in the election. I know the majority here are struggling with the result but you know what? It will be alright. The two-party system is alive and well.

It will be alright indeed. Between funny people who have told some they are going back to plantations. Kids taunting girls in school "your body, my choice" and this:

Mike Davis, a Republican lawyer and former Senate aide whose name has repeatedly come up as a potential attorney general in the next Trump administration, seems bent on revenge against Democrats even after the former president’s big win Tuesday night.
“Here’s my current mood,” Davis wrote on X Wednesday morning. “I want to drag their dead political bodies through the streets, burn them, and throw them off the wall. (Legally, politically, and financially, of course.)“

Totally alright.

[AlexB]

[JPhillips]

I'm so fucking tired of people saying Dems need to be more accommodating to Trump while also allowing Trumpers to mock anyone they please.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

It will be alright indeed. Between funny people who have told some they are going back to plantations. Kids taunting girls in school "your body, my choice" and this:


Totally alright.

Yeah man, I know, it sucks to lose, I get it, trust me. But nobody’s here to lose forever, which is my point, you’ll have your day again. You’ll be fine.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'm so fucking tired of people saying Dems need to be more accommodating to Trump while also allowing Trumpers to mock anyone they please.

Who, outside of the wind-up right-wing punditry, is saying this?

[Brian Swartz]

My opinion of Nancy Pelosi just went down a lot, and it was already low to begin with

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

Your double standard is obvious. By your own standard, Harris' debate performance against Trump and Pence demonstrated she was qualified.

Kamala Harris seen as winner in post-debate CNN poll | CNN Politics

No, I said Trump picked the best person and it showed in the VP debate as evidence.

Harris’ performance was good in her debate, but it was not indicative of her being qualified. She was qualified on the basis of being a woman. Do you disagree that if she were a man, she wouldn’t be VP?

[RainMaker]

Biden really is a piece of shit. Losing by 400 electoral points in their internal polling after the debate.

“Joe Biden’s decision to run for president again was a catastrophic mistake.” - @JonFavs
Listen to more Pod Save America wherever you get your podcasts. pic.twitter.com/nhtO9hs4aA

— Pod Save America (@PodSaveAmerica) November 8, 2024

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Who, outside of the wind-up right-wing punditry, is saying this?

MAGA, pundits, some anonymous Dems.

Personally I think it's time for Dems to let MAGA get what they voted for. Rural voters on a GOP budget will feel a lot of pain, and Dems shouldn't ride to the rescue of farmers and rural schools/hospitals, etc. At least not before 2028 when they can offer a platform in response to Trumpism.

[RainMaker]

As they say, scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.

[RainMaker]

My team lost so kids should go hungry to collectively punish people who may or may not have even voted for Trump. Just sociopathic shit.

[JPhillips]

MAGA, including apparently you, should get what they voted for.

But keep up the fight for things like farm subsidies and private school vouchers.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

No, I said Trump picked the best person and it showed in the VP debate as evidence.

Harris’ performance was good in her debate, but it was not indicative of her being qualified. She was qualified on the basis of being a woman. Do you disagree that if she were a man, she wouldn’t be VP?

No. Do you think Vance would have been selected if he were a woman?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

As they say, scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.

I think you can understand the coping mechanism at play here. And besides, it's only happening when liberals are powerless to do anything about it anyway, so it's not like it's talk of actually doing it. It's a (very extremely) grudging acceptance.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Yeah man, I know, it sucks to lose, I get it, trust me. But nobody’s here to lose forever, which is my point, you’ll have your day again. You’ll be fine.

I think there's a pretty big difference between what I'm saying and what you are. Losing, and being threats to your life, bodily freedom, and visions of slavery dancing in some peoples heads isn't really on the same playing field. Just keep minimizing all that because you don't feel like it's 'real' then. I'll be fine. I'm a middle class, straight, white guy. I'm not likely to get raped, and forced to carry a baby, or die during a miscarriage. I'll be just fine.