Job hunting advice, contract over full time?

[Ghost Econ]

So as I've posted in the random thread, I was essentially demoted so the manager's friend could have my job. I hate what I'm doing right now and I'm having work piled on me. I had 27 new claims come in the last 3 days and I literally don't have time to do them and the work I already have. I'm pulling 50+ hours each week. I'll literally be working from about 6 am this morning to about 8 tonight, with a few breaks, like now, to decompress.

I've been searching and had to turn down 3 jobs because the pay ended up not being nearly enough. I just got another offer and the pay is the same as my current job, but it's contract through an agency for 6-12 months. Chances of full hire are slim to none. Pay is the same as my current job, but without a 401k (all other benefits under my wife's job). I only put in 3% currently due to a company match, but it won't vest for about 3 more years and I know I can't take it if I somehow survived that long.

The offer is 40 hours guaranteed at least 6 months, no more no less. Obviously no vacation days. It's tangential to what I would ideally like to do, but the field is competitive so I'm not sure if have a future in that position. My current field has potential for advancement if I got a job somewhere else, but companies so far have treated me as too senior for entry level but too entry level for senior positions. But again, I don't really like what I'm doing, but I'm sure some of that is soured by where I am.

I'm at an age right now where a 401k is pretty important, and I could always do a Roth, but it's tough to determine if the few thousand dollars I'd lose (holidays, post-tax IRA) are worth the likely mental health benefits I'd gain from not being as stressed from work. Plus at best the job hunt is paused or slowed for a few months.

What say you, just looking for some thoughts from people who have had similar decisions.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

I only put in 3% currently due to a company match, but it won't vest for about 3 more years and I know I can't take it if I somehow survived that long.

How long have you been with the company? Maybe I just made a poor assumption, but I thought you had been there for a long time. I feel like 2 years to vest is the norm now, so hearing it won't vest for 3 years is surprising, though I'm sure there's still many places where it's 5.

Keep in mind that most likely it's just the employer's contribution that vests, the rest you should be able to keep.

What kind of work do you do? If it's insurance (just guessing since you mentioned claims), you should hit me up.

[Ghost Econ]

Yeah, insurance currently. They didn't offer a 401k until partway through my 2nd year, just finished my 3rd year there. I don't mind working hard and proving myself, but the volume has just been insane of late and I'm at the end of my rope. Switched from a legal job to claims 3 years ago because I got as far as I could in that job for shit pay. I can't tell if I don't like claims or don't like claims where I am. And I'd like to get some certifications, but they're not overly supportive here, but I also don't have time to do it with the workload.

[Swaggs]

Probably goes without saying, but with contract work (presumably 1099), you will have to pay your side of income tax and also the employer side - so you would need to budget that in with pay. You will essentially be paying 2x the state/federal income tax and FICA tax (SS and Medicare).

It is not particularly hard to do if you are relatively budget friendly and organized, but worth acknowledging and you may want to hire an accountant, if you don't already use one. You can also write things off within reason and where applicable - like mileage, laptops, cell phones, car expenses, trainings or continuing education, etc.

You could also form an LLC and operate through it and set up your own 401K (with higher individual limits, since you can contribute from both the employee and employer side).

Also, hugely important is healthcare insurance. When you are doing contract work as a 1099, you are almost always on your own for health insurance and it can be quite a significant expense because you are again paying the employee and employer side.

All of this is to say that, if you are currently in a W2 job with benefits like health insurance, retirement, and vacation time and they are offering you a similar amount to what you are making now, you will be taking home less money as a contractor unless you supplement it with other jobs. And, if this company expects 40 hours, aka full-time, out of you, they are likely just offering contract work so they don't have to deal with all of the payroll, overhead, and benefits of having employees while treating you like an employee.

[flere-imsaho]

If the contract pay is the same as the full-time pay then once it nets out (taxes, health insurance, retirement savings) the take-home pay will be a lot less.

Mental health is a thing, though. I'd keep looking if you can, but I don't know much about your field as to how realistic it is to find another job.

[Ghost Econ]

Sorry, meant to say the contact is W2 through the agency.

[bryce]

Everyone's situation is different but here is my take:

I'm 48, married, two young kids (9 and 6). I'm a CPA in corporate accounting. Started with one of the big public firms in 2000, then bounced around in corporate departments (homebuilder, hedge fund, insurance) for a few years before going into consulting in 2012. Got laid off in 2021 and went the gig route at that point.

I'm still in consulting, so the same industry I was in, just on my own now instead of with a firm. I formed my own LLC last year to save on taxes. I opened up a SEP-IRA this year to throw money into for retirement. I'm wrapping up year four on my own, and I can't imagine ever working full time for a company again.

The Pros:
- I've never enjoyed my career, it's a means to an end, so I can't say I actually like anything about work, but I do derive some job satisfaction out of helping clients and making things better. So I still get to do that.

- Meanwhile I get to avoid doing all the crap I detested about corporate america - corporate politics, staff turnover, performance management, business development - all that shit I had to do that had nothing to do with actually doing my job. Now I can just do my job.

- Oh, and I get paid anywhere from 5%-40% more (varies by year as I'm now an hourly contractor). But my rate is much higher than it was when I was salaried (if it was converted). Which means...

- I get to take up to four months off every year and still come out ahead, which works out because it usually takes a month or two to land a new gig once one ends.

- Overall peace of mind. No longer do I live with a gun to the back of my head at all hours of the day out of fear of being fired. It is 1000% easier to find a new contract gig than a new full time job for whatever reason.

The Cons (that dupe a lot of what Swaggs said):

- The "unknown" factor just mentioned above as a pro can also be unsettling to some, but I'm used to it, and my rate adjusts for it.

- I don't have easy access to insurance. It's fucked up how tied to our jobs health insurance is in this country, but for that matter my wife's company offers such shitty insurance that we have to go on the open market for our family anyway, so there really is no difference other than my previous insurance at a firm was actually decent for our entire family.

- No year end bonus if that's your thing. I always hated that carrot that prevented you from leaving a job after six months every year anyway, though. Would much rather have had it as part of my salary all year.

- You need to be disciplined and set aside money to pay the LLC taxes (which I do only once a year). I maintain a detailed P&L forecast, and then bring in my tax guy in December to firm it up.

- Keeping meticulous timesheet records can be a bit of a hassle.

- Up front costs to set up the LLC (but legalzoom is great and pretty affordable really), and then ongoing annual costs for my tax prep guy, and my ADP payroll expense.

Good luck with whatever you decide. I'll say this: my first firm (Arthur Andersen) went caput, and leaving public accounting turned out so much better for me. I got laid off from insurance, which led me into consulting, which turned out so much better for me. I got laid off from that consulting firm, which led me to going solo, which has turned out so much better for me...

[Ghost Econ]

So now I have a weird conundrum. I took the contract job and am going through the initial stages with a plan to start in 3 weeks. Handed in my 2 week notice (felt so good).

Today I had an interview with a local, in-office place. Didn't expect anything going in other than thinking they're good people, but surprisingly they're willing to pay what I make now, with benefits and everything. The job seems interesting and something id want to do, but not huge growth potential. Was not planning on receiving an offer like that, because no one here pays that much.

And of course, a day ago I also got a follow up on a job I'd really love that pays about 50% more than the offer I just got. it's an interview with the CEO, but the interview isn't until Friday. I'm marginally qualified for the job, but I still think it's a long shot and would have to have a perfect interview and pray.

I know this is a good problem to have, a job, an accepted job, an offer, and a long shot job, but I have no idea what to do. I'm not worried about burning a bridge with the contract job since it's through an agency, but I don't want to accept the local offer on the off chance I somehow ace the unicorn interview. The local job knows a lot of the same people I do and don't want people to think less of me if I accepted, but then reneged a week later.

[RainMaker]

That is a tough one. I'd take the new offer. I'd still interview on Friday and let them know that you did receive an offer from another place which may force their hand. Especially if it's with the CEO who likely can make a decision on the spot.

As for reneging on the offer, I think that's just life. You can ask the other company to match if you were to get the job. That at least gives that company the option to keep you if they want. No company can expect someone to turn down that kind of pay increase. I guess it could hurt your reputation but it's business, nothing personal.

[Ghost Econ]

Yeah. As you can tell, I hate having to make decisions. Can we just make universal income a thing?

[GrantDawg]

I agree with Rainmaker. Accept the new offer, but keep your options open on the long shot.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That is a tough one. I'd take the new offer. I'd still interview on Friday and let them know that you did receive an offer from another place which may force their hand. Especially if it's with the CEO who likely can make a decision on the spot.

As for reneging on the offer, I think that's just life. You can ask the other company to match if you were to get the job. That at least gives that company the option to keep you if they want. No company can expect someone to turn down that kind of pay increase. I guess it could hurt your reputation but it's business, nothing personal.

Agreed with all this. Just make sure the job is certain before notifying that you are leaving. I think the fact that the existing offer is a contract job makes it that much easier, as it shouldn’t alienate any company or person directly.

Also, as long as you have a job lined up to provide your security, don’t be afraid to make a change. My experiences are similar to what Bryce said above about things working out well with changing jobs. There’s always some anxiety with transitioning to something new, but life starts to go by real fast if you don’t change things up every 5-10 years, in my experiences.

[Ghost Econ]

To reiterate how much I hate making these types decisions, the stress led me to going to the bathroom for about 20 minutes straight, then I immediately laid on the couch and basically passed out until about 10 minutes ago.

[RainMaker]

Look at it this way. There are two ways this can go.

1) You have a new local job that pays the same and eliminates a bunch of stress.

2) You get a dream job that pays 50% more at the only downside is it may annoy some people who would all take a job paying 50% more in a heartbeat.

Basically a very good problem to have. You should be proud of yourself for being in that position.

[Ghost Econ]

Huh, well it sorted itself out because the written offer came in lower than they said, turns out that promise actually included a bonus that isn't guaranteed. They also said they couldn't pay more because a new hire couldn't make more than the highest paid person already there. I also think I just don't want to work in an office if I don't have to. I feel bad turning down jobs, but I not at a point in my life where I can take a financial step down.

[Ghost Econ]

So as an update, they then offered more but I decided to turn it down. Kinda realized I'd much rather not work in a office again unless I have to. The commute isn't terrible (about 2.5 miles because I've jogged it before), but that's one thing I just don't want to add.

Got a few more interviews lined up, but I still felt like a complete ass turning them down twice. I should probably just do a dynasty on how not to job hunt.

[dubb93]

I wouldn’t feel bad. If they told you one salary and provided two others I don’t think I could ever trust working for that company. They should not have talked salary until they had their figures straight. If they did it should have been a range and not specifics.

[RainMaker]

Yeah, they played games with the money and even lowballed you as evident by increasing their offer later. You don't owe them anything. It's just business. I'd maybe give them a number that would work for you though if you feel that makes it easier.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I wouldn’t feel bad. If they told you one salary and provided two others I don’t think I could ever trust working for that company. They should not have talked salary until they had their figures straight. If they did it should have been a range and not specifics.

ZERO reason to feel bad about it afaic.

And that's coming from a guy that's generally (hey, I think this is fair so I'll say it myself) pro-employer.

[Ghost Econ]

Just had to take the Wonderlic because I guess I'm trying to be an NFL QB? I hope they have a different version because fuck that was easy. It took like 7 minutes to get through those 50 questions.

Then the company gave me a test of about 250 personality questions. Like WTF, do people actually think these are reliable?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

Just had to take the Wonderlic because I guess I'm trying to be an NFL QB? I hope they have a different version because fuck that was easy. It took like 7 minutes to get through those 50 questions.

Then the company gave me a test of about 250 personality questions. Like WTF, do people actually think these are reliable?

I've known people who swear by them, especially for team assignments & that kind of thing. (smaller workplaces, it can be hire/fire decision, think of it as a "do you fit into the current culture" quiz)

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

Then the company gave me a test of about 250 personality questions. Like WTF, do people actually think these are reliable?

They're used in airline pilot interviews all the time. All major carriers use something.

[Ghost Econ]

So has an update, waiting on the temp agency job to confirm my start date, should be start of NEXT week. Was kinda surprised my current company didn't let me go when I put in my 2 weeks. I think they're so understaffed the couldn't this time, so I've just been playing out the string and doing what I can to not fuck over the nice people that work there.

One interesting note though, had my dream job interview and it lasted 15 minutes with the CEO. It's a legit company under the umbrella of a large insurance broker. About 10 minutes in, he said he was going to offer me the job. Totally surprised me as I had barely even talked. Downside is the main company put in a hiring freeze recently and he has to try and push it through since it was already budgeted. So I'm not counting my chickens, but definitely would accept it if the offer comes.

It's just weird. My current job was the same way, offered after about 20 minutes. And it was great until management changed in the last year and they had their own in crowd. And then this job with the same quick offer. And both times I didn't really even sell myself.

I'm still keeping other interviews until I get an offer in hand, but this has definitely moved in a direction I didn't anticipate.