Legal Question

jamesUMD · 01-28-2003, 02:22 PM

I am quitting my job, and want to know if there any legal ramifications if I do not give 2 weeks notice. The company gave me many false promises regarding benefits and other things. I have seen them fire extremely capable programmers once they have returned from very lucrative contracts for the company without any notice whatsoever. In fact in a couple of cases they have put them in the status of unpaid leave, so that they, IMO, can still count them as employees (the company gets some federal funding which I believe is linked to number of employees). I have looked over the contract and the only clause I see is if I go into another another IT job,within 1 year of signing my contract, I have to reimburse them for training. The job I'm going into is not IT related because of this clause. I would give 2 weeks notice but I am pretty sure they would ask me not to come back, and then I would be out 2 weeks pay, until I start my new job. Do any of the lawyers here have any advice? I'm not worried about burning any bridges because I have a reputable Supervisor that has pledged to be a reference for me regardless of the outcome with the head honchos. I live in Maryland if that helps any! Thanks in advance!

Draft Dodger · 01-28-2003, 02:35 PM

I'm no lawyer, but I say fuck 'em.

Fritz · 01-28-2003, 02:38 PM

Do they offer 2 weeks when they terminate people?

MylesKnight · 01-28-2003, 02:42 PM

Get your $$$ on Friday, give them a very vulgar description of what to use and how far to stick it up their a$$, and enjoy a little R&R.

I would say go play a little golf but I see you aren't down here in the Sunshine State.. Good luck and remember regardless the outcome, everything will be fine in the end.

Bee · 01-28-2003, 02:54 PM

You don't have to give 2 weeks notice, but it is considered professional to give at least 2 weeks notice.

Something you may want to think about, your current supervisor may give you a great reference no matter what you do, but in 5 years (or 10 or 20?) will he be there? What happens if someone is researching your background for a job 5 years from now and see that you've left this job with no notice? May not be a killer depending on other issues, but still something to think about.

Edit: Also, even if you go for another job in a year and the current supervisor is still there, a new employer can check with human resources and get info on your employment like how much notice you gave before you left (they don't have to go through your current supervisor). Again, not necessarily a resume killer if they find out, but something I would try to avoid if possible.

jamesUMD · 01-28-2003, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Do they offer 2 weeks when they terminate people?

No. When I have seen them terminate 2 of my friends and a couple other people in other departments, they have either told them at the end of the day that they don't need them to come back the following day, and 1 person they called on the phone and told them. The interpretation I got was that they did not want this person to waste a trip into work only to be let go. I think it had more to do with the amount of work this person had given them (stayed late/ came in on weekends, etc. etc.), and they were afraid he would cause a commotion (rightfully so in my mind).

Brillig · 01-28-2003, 03:29 PM

It's a very small world out there sometimes - regardless of how well you think you may be covered, stuff like this sometimes does get around.

As a general rule, give two weeks notice - it's the professional thing to do. If you're concerned with being shown the door and being out of work for two weeks, talk to your next employer first. I know that everyone I've hired I would've been delighted to hear that they might be able to start two weeks early.

Ksyrup · 01-28-2003, 03:36 PM

Ordinarily, I would just say that you, like many of us, are an at-will employee, subject to termination at any time on the whim of your boss. But it sounds like you have a contract. Is this a general employment contract, or just a "covenant not to compete" type agreement? If it's a full-blown employment contract, I would find it hard to believe that there is not a provision dealing with termination. Does the contract have a set length (1 year, 6 months, etc.)?

Hawglaw · 01-28-2003, 03:47 PM

I am an Employment attorney, so I can probably help. Ksyrup is right on..... You need to check and see if you have an Employment Agreement (It will run for a set number of years and covers the terms and conditions of your employment) or if you merely have a Noncompete Agreement (which restricts your ability to work somewhere else for a set number of years). If it is a Employment Agreement, there probably is a provision which allows you to terminate the Agreement, but you must provide a requisite period of notice (sometimes 2 weeks, sometimes a month). If it is a Noncompete Agreement, you do not have to give 2 weeks notice, but, depending on a LOT of circumstances, you may be prevented from working for a competitor in that area for a couple of years. So, before any questions can be answered, you need to determine what exactly governs your employment. Once you have done that, post what you have and I will give you an idea of what you are in for.

jamesUMD · 01-28-2003, 03:49 PM

Ksyrup,

It's a covenant not to compete contract. I am quite out of the norm when it comes to the employees at this company. About 99% of my co-workers are life-long IT oriented, with their past work experience etc., etc.

I worked in Environmental consulting prior to becoming a web developer, so I seem to have a loophole afforded to me that others here, do not. From everything I have seen, the contract does not make note of an employee specifically leaving to pursue a non IT related job, which is where this falls.

clintl · 01-28-2003, 03:57 PM

I thought that if you gave a company two weeks notice, and they asked you not to come back that they still had to pay you for those two weeks. That has happened at all the companies I have worked for (at least I think it has).

Hawglaw · 01-28-2003, 04:07 PM

Since it is a CNTC, you are free to leave as you please. Of course, others have made good points. You are risking a reference by leaving in such a manner. It would behoove you to stick it out and leave amicably. But, if you do not want to, then it is completely up to you.

As for subsequent jobs, the CNTC can only restrict you in a related field. In legal terms, it must be reasonably drafted in scope to protect the employer from unfair competition. It cannot restrict you from getting an unrelated job. That is, if you are not competing (nevermind that you may not be competing in an unfair manner) you cannot be restricted. In fact, most CNTCs are drafted to restrict a subsequent job in a "competing business." So, if you are not competing, you will not be subject to the CNTC. If it is drafted in a such a way that you would be covered even in a noncompeting job, it would be overbroad and would be invalid.

jamesUMD · 01-28-2003, 04:26 PM

I want to thank everyone for their input. I am leaning towards the 2 weeks notice. I have never worked for a company where I had this little respect for how they do business though. Everyone is treated like slave labor, and when their usefullness has come to an end or they are ready for a promotion, they let them go, and bring in the next unsuspecting guinea pig. My 2 co-workers that know I am leaving are acting like I am escaping from Alcatraz, and that my name will go down in legend and lore. It's that bad!

I start my new job on the 13th and figured if I did forgo the 2 weeks, it would be to hit Fort Lauderdale for a few days before I start at the next job, since I don't figure to get much vacation time until I get settled down in the new job. Thanks again for everyone's help. Thanks Hawglaw. It's good to be able to get some professional insight on what I'm looking at.

James

Hawglaw · 01-28-2003, 04:30 PM

No problem.... I know there is something wrong with me but I really enjoy this stuff..... and I work for employers!

View Poll Results: Given the circumstances, should I......
Give them 2 weeks notice?	8	47.06%
Tell them Wednesday, my last day will be Friday?	2	11.76%
Get my paycheck on Friday, and then give them a resignation letter?	7	41.18%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

01-28-2003, 02:35 PM	#2
Draft Dodger Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Keene, NH	I'm no lawyer, but I say fuck 'em. __________________ Mile High Hockey

01-28-2003, 02:38 PM	#3
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	Do they offer 2 weeks when they terminate people? __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

01-28-2003, 02:42 PM	#4
MylesKnight College Benchwarmer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Neptune Beach, Florida	Get your $$$ on Friday, give them a very vulgar description of what to use and how far to stick it up their a$$, and enjoy a little R&R. I would say go play a little golf but I see you aren't down here in the Sunshine State.. Good luck and remember regardless the outcome, everything will be fine in the end. __________________ IT'S ALL ABOUT THE BLACK & GOLD!!

01-28-2003, 02:54 PM	#5
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	You don't have to give 2 weeks notice, but it is considered professional to give at least 2 weeks notice. Something you may want to think about, your current supervisor may give you a great reference no matter what you do, but in 5 years (or 10 or 20?) will he be there? What happens if someone is researching your background for a job 5 years from now and see that you've left this job with no notice? May not be a killer depending on other issues, but still something to think about. Edit: Also, even if you go for another job in a year and the current supervisor is still there, a new employer can check with human resources and get info on your employment like how much notice you gave before you left (they don't have to go through your current supervisor). Again, not necessarily a resume killer if they find out, but something I would try to avoid if possible. Last edited by Bee : 01-28-2003 at 02:58 PM.

01-28-2003, 03:29 PM	#7
Brillig College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Mountain View, California	It's a very small world out there sometimes - regardless of how well you think you may be covered, stuff like this sometimes does get around. As a general rule, give two weeks notice - it's the professional thing to do. If you're concerned with being shown the door and being out of work for two weeks, talk to your next employer first. I know that everyone I've hired I would've been delighted to hear that they might be able to start two weeks early.

01-28-2003, 03:36 PM	#8
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	Ordinarily, I would just say that you, like many of us, are an at-will employee, subject to termination at any time on the whim of your boss. But it sounds like you have a contract. Is this a general employment contract, or just a "covenant not to compete" type agreement? If it's a full-blown employment contract, I would find it hard to believe that there is not a provision dealing with termination. Does the contract have a set length (1 year, 6 months, etc.)? __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

01-28-2003, 03:47 PM	#9
Hawglaw H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Suburban St. Louis	I am an Employment attorney, so I can probably help. Ksyrup is right on..... You need to check and see if you have an Employment Agreement (It will run for a set number of years and covers the terms and conditions of your employment) or if you merely have a Noncompete Agreement (which restricts your ability to work somewhere else for a set number of years). If it is a Employment Agreement, there probably is a provision which allows you to terminate the Agreement, but you must provide a requisite period of notice (sometimes 2 weeks, sometimes a month). If it is a Noncompete Agreement, you do not have to give 2 weeks notice, but, depending on a LOT of circumstances, you may be prevented from working for a competitor in that area for a couple of years. So, before any questions can be answered, you need to determine what exactly governs your employment. Once you have done that, post what you have and I will give you an idea of what you are in for.

01-28-2003, 03:49 PM	#10
jamesUMD High School JV Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Baltimore, MD	Ksyrup, It's a covenant not to compete contract. I am quite out of the norm when it comes to the employees at this company. About 99% of my co-workers are life-long IT oriented, with their past work experience etc., etc. I worked in Environmental consulting prior to becoming a web developer, so I seem to have a loophole afforded to me that others here, do not. From everything I have seen, the contract does not make note of an employee specifically leaving to pursue a non IT related job, which is where this falls. __________________ HailtotheRedskins!

01-28-2003, 03:57 PM	#11
clintl College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Davis, CA	I thought that if you gave a company two weeks notice, and they asked you not to come back that they still had to pay you for those two weeks. That has happened at all the companies I have worked for (at least I think it has).

01-28-2003, 04:07 PM	#12
Hawglaw H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Suburban St. Louis	Since it is a CNTC, you are free to leave as you please. Of course, others have made good points. You are risking a reference by leaving in such a manner. It would behoove you to stick it out and leave amicably. But, if you do not want to, then it is completely up to you. As for subsequent jobs, the CNTC can only restrict you in a related field. In legal terms, it must be reasonably drafted in scope to protect the employer from unfair competition. It cannot restrict you from getting an unrelated job. That is, if you are not competing (nevermind that you may not be competing in an unfair manner) you cannot be restricted. In fact, most CNTCs are drafted to restrict a subsequent job in a "competing business." So, if you are not competing, you will not be subject to the CNTC. If it is drafted in a such a way that you would be covered even in a noncompeting job, it would be overbroad and would be invalid.

01-28-2003, 04:26 PM	#13
jamesUMD High School JV Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Baltimore, MD	I want to thank everyone for their input. I am leaning towards the 2 weeks notice. I have never worked for a company where I had this little respect for how they do business though. Everyone is treated like slave labor, and when their usefullness has come to an end or they are ready for a promotion, they let them go, and bring in the next unsuspecting guinea pig. My 2 co-workers that know I am leaving are acting like I am escaping from Alcatraz, and that my name will go down in legend and lore. It's that bad! I start my new job on the 13th and figured if I did forgo the 2 weeks, it would be to hit Fort Lauderdale for a few days before I start at the next job, since I don't figure to get much vacation time until I get settled down in the new job. Thanks again for everyone's help. Thanks Hawglaw. It's good to be able to get some professional insight on what I'm looking at. James __________________ HailtotheRedskins!

01-28-2003, 04:30 PM	#14
Hawglaw H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Suburban St. Louis	No problem.... I know there is something wrong with me but I really enjoy this stuff..... and I work for employers!

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