01-18-2005, 10:20 PM | #1 | ||
College Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Rocket worth $22 million??
Now, as an avid Astros fan I have extreme mixed feelings about this. It was an honor to have Roger Clemens pitch for us last year, especially since he pissed a lot of people off by coming out of retirement. But $22 million? That seems a little bit ridiculous to me. Its hard for me to believe that he is worth that.
HOUSTON -- Roger Clemens is seeking a record $22 million in salary arbitration while the Astros have offered the seven-time Cy Young Award winner $13.5 million, according to figures released Tuesday. The Astros also exchanged 2005 salary figures with their other arbitration-eligible players, including outfielder Lance Berkman and pitchers Roy Oswalt, Tim Redding and Pete Munro, all of whom will be playing for Houston in 2005. Clemens, however, is the uncertainty. The right-hander has yet to determine if he will pitch in 2005 or retire. "We are proceeding down the arbitration path as if Roger were going to play; however, he has not yet made a final decision," said Randy Hendricks, one of Clemens' Houston-based agents, via e-mail to MLB.com Tuesday afternoon. The previous record for an arbitration request was $18.5 million by Yankee shortstop Derek Jeter in 2001. Jeter subsequently signed for $189 million over 10 years. "Roger has not indicated whether he is going to play or not," Astros general manager Tim Purpura said. "I've said all along we're going to wait patiently for his answer. We haven't put any pressure on Roger or his family to make a decision. Once a decision is made then we have to negotiate a contract." If Clemens, 42, receives the $22 million it would be the highest salary earned by a pitcher in a single season, topping the record of $17.5 million set last year by Pedro Martinez, then with the Boston Red Sox. The $8.5 million spread between what Clemens is seeking and what the Astros have offered is the largest margin in arbitration history. "What the numbers do is they establish a midpoint," Purpura said. "Typically once the numbers are filed you focus on the midpoint, will an arbitrator think that our case is a winner or the player's case is a winner? That's what you have to determine. When those two numbers (are filed) there are going to be disparities, that's just the nature of the process. "Typically in these contracts, I don't think there's ever a case where the settlement was at the club's number or the players' number, it's something in between." Clemens, 18-4 with a 2.98 ERA last season, made $5 million in 2004, not counting an additional $1.8 million in incentives. While he waits for a decision from Clemens, Purpura has other negotiations pending. Berkman filed for $11 million while the Astros are offering $10 million. Redding is seeking $1.4 million and Houston has offered $575,000. Munro wants $1.1 million next season but the Astros have offered $525,000. Oswalt submitted an offer sheet for $7.8 million and Houston has offered $6 million. The Astros have already discussed a multi-year extension with Berkman. "Lance, because he's one year away from free agency, I think we're more motivated to get something done with him in terms of (a multi-year contract)," Purpura said. "Roy has two years left before he's arbitration eligible." Purpura hopes to have all signed before they head to arbitration hearings. |
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01-18-2005, 10:27 PM | #2 |
Hockey Boy
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No.
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Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). |
01-18-2005, 10:27 PM | #3 |
Head Coach
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The rule of thumb is that you're paying more for what the player has done in the past than for what you think he's capable of doing in the future. If the opposite were true, Beltre would've hit his payday 2-3 years ago.
That said, if ANY starting pitcher is worth $22 million, it's probably Clemens. |
01-18-2005, 10:36 PM | #4 | |
Coordinator
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as much as it pains me to write this about someone I totally despise...I agree.
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01-18-2005, 10:37 PM | #5 | |
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How can you despise him? Although while he was a Yankee I could care less about him, but i generally feel that way about any Yankee. |
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01-18-2005, 10:44 PM | #6 | |
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Bill Simmons said it much, much better than me, but, unfortunately crappy ESPN has made his older material Insider. so, I'll just say, I just do.
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01-18-2005, 10:54 PM | #7 |
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I agree with Draft Dodger, I've never liked Clemens one bit. I never read the Bill Simmons article, but he would have probably explained it adequately for me, too. On to the 22 million, if I'm not mistaken, Clemens hasn't even decided if he is going to play next year. I guess he's waiting to see the outcome of the arbitration hearing. I may be going out on a limb here, but I'd say that if he wins, he'll be an Astro next year. Just a hunch.
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01-19-2005, 01:07 AM | #8 |
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Shouldnt the talk be more about the Stros only thinking he is worth 13.5 million?
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01-19-2005, 06:24 AM | #9 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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The truth lies somewhere in between...which is why one is at $22M and the other at $13M. Average them and you get - surprise! - pretty much exactly what Pedro got as the highest one-year salary ever for a pitcher. That's not a coincidence.
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01-19-2005, 06:57 AM | #10 | |
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But his salary cannot be exactly in between. The arbitrator must pick one of the two numbers. I believe that it is now to late for them to strike a deal in between, they must live with the figure the arbitrator picks.
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01-19-2005, 08:36 AM | #11 | |
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They can still negotiate up until the hearing. From the article: "What the numbers do is they establish a midpoint," Purpura said. "Typically once the numbers are filed you focus on the midpoint, will an arbitrator think that our case is a winner or the player's case is a winner? That's what you have to determine. When those two numbers (are filed) there are going to be disparities, that's just the nature of the process. "Typically in these contracts, I don't think there's ever a case where the settlement was at the club's number or the players' number, it's something in between."
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01-19-2005, 08:38 AM | #12 |
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I don't think he wants to play anyway but if somehow he gets 22 million he'll make a go of it for another year.
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01-19-2005, 08:40 AM | #13 | |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
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I might be wrong, though. EDIT: I guess I was right.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." Last edited by Ksyrup : 01-19-2005 at 08:41 AM. |
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01-19-2005, 08:42 AM | #14 | |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
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Would it completely dissuade you to play if you were looking for $22M and ONLY got $17.5M? Plus, I think he picked that number just so the midpoint would be where it is.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
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01-19-2005, 08:43 AM | #15 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Mr stay at home unless I pitch? What a jerk.
Todd |
01-19-2005, 10:22 AM | #16 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Atlanta, GA
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He's probably sees himsself in a win-win situation. If they give him that obscene amount of money he will come back to play. If they don't he'll just retire... again.
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01-19-2005, 11:04 AM | #17 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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He pitched for "only" $5M last season, so that might have something to do with him overvaluing himself this season.
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01-19-2005, 11:07 AM | #18 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Yeah, it's bloody awful what 7 Cy Youngs, 300+ wins, 4000+ K's and a few rings earns you these days...time with your family and doing what you love. Absurd. |
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01-19-2005, 11:14 AM | #19 | |
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Yeah, why get all that money and then stay away from the team? Just because you're good you should get special treatment? Maybe Pujols will stay at home on Mondays to spend time with his family. Sheeeshh... Roger is about Roger and he's been that way for years. Yeah, he's worth $22 mil. Actually, you're from Boston and you defend him? Todd Last edited by MizzouRah : 01-19-2005 at 11:15 AM. |
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01-19-2005, 12:49 PM | #20 |
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Join Date: Apr 2002
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No, a 42 year old Roger Clemens isn't worth that. Last year he pitched good, no doubt, but not that kind of money even if he wasn't reaching the geezerly ages in baseball. But is he worth $22M if you average the two years before that: 15 wins and an ERA above 4? There are at least 5 pitchers off the top of my head who I would rather have and that even includes Old Man-- err Big Unit who is actually 1 year *younger* than Clemens.
SI
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01-19-2005, 12:58 PM | #21 | |
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I'm not from Boston, I just live here . I am a big Rocket-fan and believe his situation is unique from Albert Pujols (call me crazy). Just because you are good, you should not necessarily get special treatment. When you are a guaranteed HOF/best pitcher of a generation and you are playing for your home-town team for 5M you should get a throne. This was discussed previously when the whole whiny Barry Bonds "I don't get Clemens treatment because I'm black" thing came up, but most pitchers do not always travel with the team on their off days, so it really isn't ultra-special. I believe this is his way of letting the Astros know that if they want his services, after not ponying up for Beltran, they will have to pay more for it this time. No hometown discount to a team that is making few strides this offseason to really improve themselves (in my opinion). |
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01-19-2005, 01:01 PM | #22 |
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If Clemens is gonna get the kind of language he wants in this contract, wouldnt he almost have to settle for a 1 year deal for around the midpoint? I would think that the generic 22 million arb contract wouldnt have any special provisions in it for stuff that he would want(ability to leave the team days where he isnt scheduled to pitch, etc).
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01-19-2005, 01:36 PM | #23 | |
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Nice post, and I agree... a tad. BUT for THAT kind of money I don't think special treatment should even get discussed. I know that's not the issue here, but I think "the Rocket" is sticking it to the 'Stros' even with his Cy young year. Maybe I'm just sick of these whiny millionaires, but if I was in his shoes... who knows. Todd |
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01-19-2005, 01:38 PM | #24 | |
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That's the key, the shoes thing. It's impossible to relate to a guy with enough money for 3 lifetimes.
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01-19-2005, 02:17 PM | #25 |
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He's asking for way too much dough...
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01-19-2005, 03:05 PM | #26 |
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You do understand that he's not going to arbitration.
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01-19-2005, 03:10 PM | #27 | |
Retired
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I'm a Rocket fan and I think he's really playing this wrong. 1. Agreed, he's asking for too much money. He's not worth $22m. No pitcher in the league is worth $22m. No player in the league is worth $22m. 2. He needs to shit or get off the pot. Either come back, or don't. But stop this beating around the bush thing. Personally, I'd like to see him retire - ride into the sunset on his horse. He's won 7 CYs, has his WS ring and a great last season...time to go. |
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01-19-2005, 03:14 PM | #28 | |
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I would be amazed if the Astros let it get that far. This $22 million number is just something for the media to get excited about. Eventually he'll sign for one dollar more than what the next highest pitcher will be paid next season. |
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01-19-2005, 03:15 PM | #29 | |
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Even 18 million is way up there.
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01-19-2005, 03:17 PM | #30 | |
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That's definitely his value though in this market. |
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01-19-2005, 03:18 PM | #31 | |
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Perhaps but if you are Houston do you really think with their roster that this is the year they make a run?
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01-19-2005, 03:21 PM | #32 |
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No, but I don't expect the Rocket to really come back.
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01-19-2005, 03:31 PM | #33 | |
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It's better than 22 million though which I'd say he'd have a decent shot at getting. Last edited by Desnudo : 01-19-2005 at 03:31 PM. |
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01-19-2005, 04:00 PM | #34 | ||
Coordinator
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Here's some of what Simmons wrote on Clemens: Quote:
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01-19-2005, 06:41 PM | #35 |
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Good article McKerney!
Todd Last edited by MizzouRah : 01-19-2005 at 06:42 PM. |
01-19-2005, 07:14 PM | #36 |
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Ugh...what Simmons and every other Sox fan don't remember is that Clemens didn't want more $$ from the Sox, he wanted an extra year...the same thing Pedro wanted (a little better investment on Rocket).
In his seasons before going to TOR, Clemens missed a bunch of starts in 1993 and 1994 due to injury, but still managed to average about 9K/9IP. The Sox also offered him little run support. As for the TOR "cheating" BS, I'm not sure what he is talking about. I wasn't aware a player couldn't ask to be traded, like Randy Johnson or whoever. Instead of acknowledging that Red Sox management screwed Clemens over, they seem to think he made it his personal vendetta to lie, cheat and whatever to screw the Red Sox fans over. If I were him, I wouldn't wear that Sox hat either at an event in which he was being honored. |
01-19-2005, 07:15 PM | #37 |
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I wonder if hes just trying to shoot for the moon and if he doesn't get the money he'll just retire.
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01-19-2005, 07:35 PM | #38 |
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I'm pretty sure that will happen. This is "pay me my outrageous demands or I retire". If he wins the arby case, he'll probably play, if they give him some crazy contract with a lot of weird stuff, he'll play, but if he loses the arby case, he'll retire.
SI
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01-19-2005, 08:50 PM | #39 | |
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He was a big fat tub for the last 2-3 years in a Red Sox uniform, aka dialing it in, and probably contributing to the injuries. Last edited by Desnudo : 01-19-2005 at 08:51 PM. |
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