Hey Wargamers, I'm looking for...

ACStrider · 03-25-2003, 09:21 AM

a good World War II board game. I'm looking to go home and be with my family for a few weeks this summer (yea), and one thing my dad wants to do is play some strategy war games (it's kind of a past time with us). To give you an idea of our gaming history, here are some games that we've played...

Axis and Allies - VERY simple and basic game with some surprisingly complex strategy. Takes several hours to play. High replayability but not in consecutive sessions.

World War II - A few steps more complex then A&A in complexity and much more true to history. Takes about twice the time to play. Options are a little more restricted (generally must follow the historical track). Average replayability but good for consecutive sessions.

World in Flames - Labeled the wargame of the century (20th century). EXTREMELY complex (rule book is over 100 pages long) Very good in terms of realism but also very flexible in general strategy. Extensively thorough and detailed. Quality game and quite a brain twister, but also very long to play (200 hours on average)

Well, we're looking for a more strategic game (as opposed to tactical - so games like Squad Leader are out), and one which we could play several times in the course of a week or two. In the past we would settle with one game of World in Flames but it's very time consuming. My dad has suggested a game called "Rise and decline of the 3rd reich" Well, that's my post! Thoughts/comments?

Fritz · 03-25-2003, 09:23 AM

How complex are you two looking for?

ACStrider · 03-25-2003, 09:36 AM

As complex as possible, but not tedious. We're shooting for a game that takes around 6 hours to play but utilizes key strategical concepts and that isn't restriced to following the true course of history. An example of this is in World in Flames, a common strategy that my dad uses when he plays as Germany is to play an economic war (as opposed to outright domination). He conquers France, Poland, Denmark, Benelux countries, Balkan coutries, then turns to Africa and sweaps northern Africa including Gibralter and the Suez. Eventually there is a war with Russia from three fronts instead of one (not really looking to conquer, but to cripple) and the rest of the game is primarily defensive and simply out-producing the Allies (as best as possible). This is an example of deviating from traditional history. World in Flames won't due in this case, though, because it takes too long to play. All that to say I'm looking for the best mix of time-efficiency, realism, and general strategy.

Fritz · 03-25-2003, 09:37 AM

I know you want a board game, and I am headed in that direction, but is your dad PC literate?

User #2735 · 03-25-2003, 09:43 AM

I've always thought A&A:Europe expanded on the strategical element of Axis and Allies with the introduction of IPC values for seazones (i.e. Allied shipping lanes) and the 'oil value' given to the Middle East. If you liked A&A, but just played it to death, you might want to give A&A:Europe a shot.

Note: I haven't played A&A:Pacific, so I don't know what changes were made to that theatre.

WSUCougar · 03-25-2003, 09:46 AM

IMO, 3rd Reich is not a game that fits your time constraints. It is long and complex.

Are you set on a grand-strategic level (commanding countries, armies, etc. as opposed to corps/divisions/brigades/regiments)? Are you set on World War II?

GMT has some very good card-driven wargames. Check them out here: www.gmtgames.com

By the way, I have a pretty extensive collection of wargames, so I might be able to lend you something.

ACStrider · 03-25-2003, 10:07 AM

Fritz - yes, we're talking board games. My dad plays PC games (mostly illiterate but knows enough to get them going and to play them)

User - we have A&A Europe. It is a bit more thorough then A&A but still not to the level that we like to play.

WSU - I was told that 3rd Reich took about 6-8 hours to play one game. Is this the case or have we been misinformed? Yes, we're looking at Grand-strategic type WWII. We've played some good Civil War and WWI games, but WWII holds our attention more. World in Flames works at the Corps and division level. That would be the most detailed that we would like to go. Anything more is too time consuming, I believe.

Fritz · 03-25-2003, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ACStrider
Fritz - yes, we're talking board games. My dad plays PC games (mostly illiterate but knows enough to get them going and to play them)

Ok, here is my suggestion.

There is a game "helper" product named ADC2 put out by HPS (http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/product...ADC2-Main.html).

This product allows you to manage board games in a PC PBEM manner. This way you and your dad could keep playing the game once you leave.

IF this is something that appeals to you, I would suggest finding a support board game and playing that.

One game that I would suggest that is complex but not massive, and supported by ADC2, would be Victory Games Korean War. The game is out of print, but you can probaly find a copy on the cheap.

The game is played on Div/Rgt scale and covers the first year of the war.

ACStrider · 03-25-2003, 10:49 AM

Wow, thank you superpowerfull Villian!
I'll have to pass that website by my dad. It's good to know that there's a game builder/helper thingy that can transfer board games to computer. It would be a bit of work and time, but certainly would save us the time of setting up and taking down games. I'll keep my eye out for Victory Games. We're probably going to hit up a gaming store and see what they have, but considering that we already have 3rd Reich, we're probably going to play that one.

Everyone else - I'm still up for suggestions. Thanks a bunch for what you've mentioned so far. It really is helpful.

WSUCougar · 03-25-2003, 10:50 AM

I have the "old" version of 3rd Reich, and I can't see it being a 6-8 hour game. The newer edition may have been streamlined, however.

Check out World War II: Barbarossa to Berlin by GMT. If you haven't yet checked out the GMT web link above, here's the direct link for the game: www.gmtgames.com/nnbb/main.html

Fritz · 03-25-2003, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ACStrider
Wow, thank you superpowerfull Villian!

No problem. Now I will be foreclosing on your house if you don't give me your daughter....

ACStrider · 03-26-2003, 12:10 AM

Well, I don't have a daughter...maybe you can take my student loans instead.

sachmo71 · 03-26-2003, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ACStrider
Well, I don't have a daughter...maybe you can take my student loans instead.

Don't do it, Fritz. It's a bad deal. Remember, never trust a Texan. Or is it always trust a Texan? I forget, but you should walk away from this one.

Fritz · 03-26-2003, 06:43 AM

Well, this would give my student loans someone to play with....

More importantly, who is that 15 year old girl who lives with you?

ACStrider · 03-26-2003, 07:40 AM

You must be refering to the stuffed animal I sleep with at night. Sorry, Tiffer has sentimental value...I don't think I can part with her.

WSUCougar · 03-26-2003, 05:10 PM

Another WWII wargame suggestion for future reference is The Gamers' Operational Combat Series (OCS). I find this to have an elegant, playable system with a good level of complexity. Air power & supply are key elements, and not in a bothersome way (as they are in many games).

"Tunisia" is my favorite of the series, but there are several others. Let me know if you want more info.

ACStrider · 03-26-2003, 05:50 PM

yeah, feel free to open the door on anything. I'm just interested in hearing what's out there. I can't say thanks enough.

Fritz · 03-26-2003, 05:58 PM

I have heqrd good things about OCS. wish I had wargame buddies (and no cats)

ACStrider · 03-26-2003, 06:56 PM

Well, if you're in Minnesota in early-mid July...

03-25-2003, 09:36 AM	#3
ACStrider High School JV Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Austin, TX	As complex as possible, but not tedious. We're shooting for a game that takes around 6 hours to play but utilizes key strategical concepts and that isn't restriced to following the true course of history. An example of this is in World in Flames, a common strategy that my dad uses when he plays as Germany is to play an economic war (as opposed to outright domination). He conquers France, Poland, Denmark, Benelux countries, Balkan coutries, then turns to Africa and sweaps northern Africa including Gibralter and the Suez. Eventually there is a war with Russia from three fronts instead of one (not really looking to conquer, but to cripple) and the rest of the game is primarily defensive and simply out-producing the Allies (as best as possible). This is an example of deviating from traditional history. World in Flames won't due in this case, though, because it takes too long to play. All that to say I'm looking for the best mix of time-efficiency, realism, and general strategy. __________________ "I'm evil." "Oh you are not!" "Oh I am too." -- Brak

03-25-2003, 09:37 AM	#4
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	I know you want a board game, and I am headed in that direction, but is your dad PC literate? __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

03-25-2003, 09:43 AM	#5
User #2735 n00b Join Date: Mar 2003	I've always thought A&A:Europe expanded on the strategical element of Axis and Allies with the introduction of IPC values for seazones (i.e. Allied shipping lanes) and the 'oil value' given to the Middle East. If you liked A&A, but just played it to death, you might want to give A&A:Europe a shot. Note: I haven't played A&A:Pacific, so I don't know what changes were made to that theatre. Last edited by User #2735 : 03-25-2003 at 09:43 AM.

03-25-2003, 09:46 AM	#6
WSUCougar Rider Of Rohan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep	IMO, 3rd Reich is not a game that fits your time constraints. It is long and complex. Are you set on a grand-strategic level (commanding countries, armies, etc. as opposed to corps/divisions/brigades/regiments)? Are you set on World War II? GMT has some very good card-driven wargames. Check them out here: www.gmtgames.com By the way, I have a pretty extensive collection of wargames, so I might be able to lend you something. __________________ It's not the years...it's the mileage.

03-25-2003, 10:07 AM	#7
ACStrider High School JV Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Austin, TX	Fritz - yes, we're talking board games. My dad plays PC games (mostly illiterate but knows enough to get them going and to play them) User - we have A&A Europe. It is a bit more thorough then A&A but still not to the level that we like to play. WSU - I was told that 3rd Reich took about 6-8 hours to play one game. Is this the case or have we been misinformed? Yes, we're looking at Grand-strategic type WWII. We've played some good Civil War and WWI games, but WWII holds our attention more. World in Flames works at the Corps and division level. That would be the most detailed that we would like to go. Anything more is too time consuming, I believe. __________________ "I'm evil." "Oh you are not!" "Oh I am too." -- Brak

03-25-2003, 09:23 AM	#2
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	How complex are you two looking for? __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster Last edited by Fritz : 03-25-2003 at 09:23 AM.

03-25-2003, 10:49 AM	#9
ACStrider High School JV Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Austin, TX	Wow, thank you superpowerfull Villian! I'll have to pass that website by my dad. It's good to know that there's a game builder/helper thingy that can transfer board games to computer. It would be a bit of work and time, but certainly would save us the time of setting up and taking down games. I'll keep my eye out for Victory Games. We're probably going to hit up a gaming store and see what they have, but considering that we already have 3rd Reich, we're probably going to play that one. Everyone else - I'm still up for suggestions. Thanks a bunch for what you've mentioned so far. It really is helpful. __________________ "I'm evil." "Oh you are not!" "Oh I am too." -- Brak

03-25-2003, 10:50 AM	#10
WSUCougar Rider Of Rohan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep	I have the "old" version of 3rd Reich, and I can't see it being a 6-8 hour game. The newer edition may have been streamlined, however. Check out World War II: Barbarossa to Berlin by GMT. If you haven't yet checked out the GMT web link above, here's the direct link for the game: www.gmtgames.com/nnbb/main.html __________________ It's not the years...it's the mileage.

03-26-2003, 12:10 AM	#12
ACStrider High School JV Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Austin, TX	Well, I don't have a daughter...maybe you can take my student loans instead. __________________ "I'm evil." "Oh you are not!" "Oh I am too." -- Brak Last edited by ACStrider : 03-26-2003 at 12:10 AM.

03-26-2003, 06:43 AM	#14
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	Well, this would give my student loans someone to play with.... More importantly, who is that 15 year old girl who lives with you? __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster Last edited by Fritz : 03-26-2003 at 06:44 AM.

03-26-2003, 07:40 AM	#15
ACStrider High School JV Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Austin, TX	You must be refering to the stuffed animal I sleep with at night. Sorry, Tiffer has sentimental value...I don't think I can part with her. __________________ "I'm evil." "Oh you are not!" "Oh I am too." -- Brak

03-26-2003, 05:10 PM	#16
WSUCougar Rider Of Rohan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep	Another WWII wargame suggestion for future reference is The Gamers' Operational Combat Series (OCS). I find this to have an elegant, playable system with a good level of complexity. Air power & supply are key elements, and not in a bothersome way (as they are in many games). "Tunisia" is my favorite of the series, but there are several others. Let me know if you want more info. __________________ It's not the years...it's the mileage.

03-26-2003, 05:50 PM	#17
ACStrider High School JV Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Austin, TX	yeah, feel free to open the door on anything. I'm just interested in hearing what's out there. I can't say thanks enough. __________________ "I'm evil." "Oh you are not!" "Oh I am too." -- Brak

03-26-2003, 05:58 PM	#18
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	I have heqrd good things about OCS. wish I had wargame buddies (and no cats) __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

03-26-2003, 06:56 PM	#19
ACStrider High School JV Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Austin, TX	Well, if you're in Minnesota in early-mid July... __________________ "I'm evil." "Oh you are not!" "Oh I am too." -- Brak

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