Werewolf LXXII: Chess (Checkmate!)

[Qwikshot]

unvote the jackal

vote no lynch

[st.cronin]

I'll change my vote to hoopsguy to prevent a no lynch, I mean it.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Intersting...

so now there are two reveals...

If The Jackal is a knight, then my suggestion is that he scan hoops this evening and reveal what the scan is...

we may just have two key pieces to start the puzzle...and find out who is who and then who is wolf...

(puff puff)

Assuming they're the same color and he's on the same side of the board that hoops is.

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Can someone answer this quickly w/o me having to refer to the rules. Can we get a minor victory for beating the wolves and not worrying about the chess game?

Nope:

The game ends in one of four ways:

1. If the White King dies, Black wins.
2. If the Black King dies, White wins.
3. If only the two Kings and wolves are alive, the Wolves win.
4. If only the two Kings are alive, the game ends in a stalemate.

[hoopsguy]

I'm fine if all four knights want to scan for me tonight. One of them is going to be right next to me.

It isn't going to get us a wolf out of the chute, it isn't the way that I would prefer everyone act (since I want them to, you know, catch wolves) but I'm not going to tell the knights who to scan.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'll change my vote to hoopsguy to prevent a no lynch, I mean it.

(puff puff)

Let's assume that hoops is a rook. Rooks rarely can move first night. There are four knights...let's assume then now that hoops has made his claim (and Jackal his) that the knights decide to scan hoops...realize regardless of friendly/unfriendly...knights can scan...knights are adjacent to rooks...

Now I would think in the Jackal's case, this is a fine measure of self preservation as hoops can defend against a wolf attack...so...hoops could protect jackal, jackal scans hoops, both are clear and alive in the morning (heck have the other rook protect hoops then from attack as well)...

Now in the morning, please don't say you'll love me, cos I'll only kick you right out the door....BUT you can have at least a measure of understanding whether hoops is telling the truth, jackal is telling the truth, and you can build off of that...

least that's my measure of thinking...now if hoops is not near jackal, hoops would be near the one of the other three...

so in short (too late)...I think there is something to be learned by this, and allow for a no-vote for this evening...

(puff puff puff)

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'll change my vote to hoopsguy to prevent a no lynch, I mean it.

I'm pretty much of the same opinion, Cronin. No Lynch makes even less sense to me now than it did last night.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'll change my vote to hoopsguy to prevent a no lynch, I mean it.

I'm pretty much of the same opinion, Cronin. No Lynch makes even less sense to me now than it did last night.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

(puff puff)

Let's assume that hoops is a rook. Rooks rarely can move first night. There are four knights...let's assume then now that hoops has made his claim (and Jackal his) that the knights decide to scan hoops...realize regardless of friendly/unfriendly...knights can scan...knights are adjacent to rooks...

Now I would think in the Jackal's case, this is a fine measure of self preservation as hoops can defend against a wolf attack...so...hoops could protect jackal, jackal scans hoops, both are clear and alive in the morning (heck have the other rook protect hoops then from attack as well)...

Now in the morning, please don't say you'll love me, cos I'll only kick you right out the door....BUT you can have at least a measure of understanding whether hoops is telling the truth, jackal is telling the truth, and you can build off of that...

least that's my measure of thinking...now if hoops is not near jackal, hoops would be near the one of the other three...

so in short (too late)...I think there is something to be learned by this, and allow for a no-vote for this evening...

(puff puff puff)

I understand. On the other hand, BOTH reveals were made by players who legitimately thought they were going to be lynched today. If hoopsguy is a wolf, he would rather be scanned by a knight who outs him as a wolf on day 2, as opposed to being lynched on day 1. Plus who knows what the knights are going to do.

[jeheinz72]

I'm definitely not going No Lynch. Nuh-uh. I still think it makes little sense.

Whether or not I'm switching from Jackal I don't know. I'm still of the ilk that he could be a knight who is a wolf.

[mccollins]

With people revealing, let's take a step back and think about roles:

2 Kings, 2 Queens
4 Rooks
4 Knights
4 Bishops
4 Pawn-holders

Now, there's no expendable vanilla villagers there. Everyone has a decent power.

If anyone reveals are people just going to pull votes off?

[mccollins]

Based on all the information in the thread, I don't think any 100% case can be made that anyone is a wolf. Thus, any vote is somewhat a stab in the dark.

However, I know that 12 or so people aren't on my team. There's a good chance I'll be lynching someone who is unfriendly to me.

[Lathum]

what did jackyl reveal as?

[The Jackal]

No, and I realize all roles have some use, MC, but only the rook and knight can block and find wolves.

[The Jackal]

Ill be back in a few minutes after I shower. Then I'm gonna be on the subway till the deadline, probably.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Lathum

what did jackyl reveal as?

i'm a knight

[Narcizo]

I'm not liking the total flock from Hoops to Jackal, I have to say. That looks like a landslide to me, and I'm willing to bet there's a wolf moving in there. Leans me towards thinking the Jackal is a villager.

Jackal, this morning I was of the opinion that I was going to be fighting against a no lynch vote. To my mind that left me with the option of voting you or hoopsguy. Despite what st.cronin says I think that often you do have to vote for someone other than your top suspect. However the impression I got made me slightly suspicious of you (as I posted - most suspicious was the "I'm leaning towards" comment, which sounds like someone trying to gauge the consensus for something). Not as suspicious as KWhit, mind, but KWhit didn't seem to be a valid option at the time.

Now with no lynch (hopefully) out of the way and hoops apparently safe with his reveal, which is as it should be as, to my mind he has one of the most important roles in the game - however it's important not to lose sight of the fact that hoops being a bodyguard doesn't actually clear him from being a wolf. I'm also interested in hearing exactly why he would feel his partner has more than average trust for him not being a wolf and vice versa. Can't see any reason why you would trust your partner at this stage.

Anyway

Unvote Jackal
Vote KWhit

I think the way KWhit has been playing and voting is seriously suspicious. Something doesn't sit right with the way he's playing and I'm going to go back and see if I can figure out what the problem is (more than the, in my opinion, good points st.cronin has made.

[Narcizo]

Oh! Right. I'm used to the pace of things on my day time. THings move a bit more quickly around here now. Well Jackal being a knight fits into my scheme of people who should be saved by a reveal so I'm happy to keep a vote on KWhit. (Who, presumably, will now reveal as a queen).

[Barkeep49]

So a knight is far more valuable in the WW game than hoops.

However, in Chess a rook definitely trumps the knight.

Sorta seems like a wash.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by mccollins

With people revealing, let's take a step back and think about roles:

2 Kings, 2 Queens
4 Rooks
4 Knights
4 Bishops
4 Pawn-holders

Now, there's no expendable vanilla villagers there. Everyone has a decent power.

If anyone reveals are people just going to pull votes off?

My scale of expendability

Wolf-protection rook
Knights

Queen (? still not sure about this one)

Other rook/pawns/Bishops.

There you go. As I've pointed out everyone has powers but we're only really interested in preserving the powers that have anything to do with the wolves as we've no way of knowing if the other roles are on our side or not. Thinking about it I'd probably put the pawns at the bottom because their vote-distorting power would be very useful for a wolf to have.

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

No, and I realize all roles have some use, MC, but only the rook and knight can block and find wolves.

So if someone reveals as a bishop or pawn, they should realize they're not worth saving?

[mccollins]

dola, dang more talk on that subject before I responded.

[hoopsguy]

1. Do we have a vote count?
2. Hi, Alan! Going to join the party at some point? Would love to hear your thoughts (you are in this game, correct?)

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by mccollins

So if someone reveals as a bishop or pawn, they should realize they're not worth saving?

Not at all, it just matters if you're more interested in winning chess or killing wolves.

[The Jackal]

The Jackal (6) - claphamsa (179), Lathum (277), hoopsguy (290), oliegirl (374), KWhit (405), jeheinz72 (419)
No Lynch (4) - path12 (386), The Jackal (430), Neon Chaos (446), Qwikshot (451)
hoopsguy (3) - mccollins (177), RendeR (197), Sonic Youth (286)
KWhit (3) - ntndeacon (226), st.cronin (273), Narcizo (467)
Barkeep49 (1) - Chief Rum (237)
RendeR (1) - Anxiety (238)
Qwikshot (1) - Barkeep49 (314)
st.cronin (1) - PurdueBrad (426)

[The Jackal]

These pawns are like snakes in the grass, it's pretty exciting.

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Not at all, it just matters if you're more interested in winning chess or killing wolves.

Well, based on the win conditions, we can only be concerned with both! Just focusing on the chess game could get us all night-killed and just focusing on the wolves could leave us with no realistic way to kill the King.

[st.cronin]

I actually think hoopsguy might be bluffing about being a rook, yet still be not-a-wolf.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I just mean that our win conditions are not at all tied to the wolves, so focusing on them more than the chess game seems backwards to me.

Originally Posted by KWhit

I think at that point you try to lynch the players who aren't on your team.

In fact, I'd say that's a good strategy from the start.

Originally Posted by KWhit

As I think about this more, I wonder if I have been making an invalid assumption.

Ok here we go. Both the first two comments sound pretty wolfish to me. Of course the wolves want us to concentrate in the black vs white battle even in the thread because it gives them a free hand here. And then the last one sounds like he's talked it over with someone and then he's backing down and trying to cover his tracks.

I know everyone is allowed to change their mind and can misunderstand things (I'm sure I have as well) but I still think it looks pretty suspicious.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Not at all, it just matters if you're more interested in winning chess or killing wolves.

Only agree if you have reason to believe that the bishop or pawns are on your side. Otherwise you shouldn't be worried about it one way or the other.

[RendeR]

Wow, I don't even know how to correlate all this right now. my vote on hoops really means nothing, I don't want to move to jackal as that would prety well lock him up, I don't want to vote no lynch either.

I'm going to move to the only viable alternative that MIGHT get us a bit of a runoff vote here at the deadline:

UNVOTE HOOPSGUY
VOTE KWHIT

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I actually think hoopsguy might be bluffing about being a rook, yet still be not-a-wolf.

That's actually a possibility as there's no way anyone can contradict him, except his PM pal. No matter what hoops has said to that person I'd suggest them come out and say if they know that hoops is lying.

Anyway, looks like I'm going to be turfed off the computer until after deadline. See you all, hopefully.

[oliegirl]

Jackal, why did you wait so long to reveal? Why did you wait until after Hoops revealed?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Jackal, why did you wait so long to reveal? Why did you wait until after Hoops revealed?

I didn't wait that long, really. I didn't want to reveal because I'm a huge night-kill target for the wolves, being that I'm one of the four pieces that can identify them. But once it became clear that I was going to be the lynch candidate (I think it was up to 9 votes on me?), I had to do it. Hoops' reveal really just encouraged me that there was no real choice anymore.

[Abe Sargent]

Ah hell. I hadn't expected to stick on RendeR because I voted for him simply because he joked about my home state. But I'll be if I can figure out who is who and what is going on. hoops? Jackal? Now KWhit?

I keep holding off and making a move, hoping that something will come out of the bushes and be a better choice, or give me some info.

Of course, any wolf can role reveal as a piece, so that doesn't matter.

Still, I have no inclination that anyone is a wolf today. Makes my vote on RendeR just bad as moving to hoopsguy or KWhit or The Jackal. Feh. Day One, and I am hoping for a reprieve. I doubt I'm the only one.

[The Jackal]

Clap, why are you still on me? out of all the votes on me, yours is the only one that had no basis, really.

Baa.

There, happy?

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Clap, why are you still on me? out of all the votes on me, yours is the only one that had no basis, really.

Baa.

There, happy?

im here, and I havent moved becasue i see no probable alternative.. I belive hoops... and I think were better off lynching someone that no lynch. if there is a reasonble alternative then ill move...

[The Jackal]

I have to run, Ive stayed around way too long. I'll be back after my physical therapy to see if I'm still alive.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Ok here we go. Both the first two comments sound pretty wolfish to me. Of course the wolves want us to concentrate in the black vs white battle even in the thread because it gives them a free hand here. And then the last one sounds like he's talked it over with someone and then he's backing down and trying to cover his tracks.

I know everyone is allowed to change their mind and can misunderstand things (I'm sure I have as well) but I still think it looks pretty suspicious.

(puff puff) so the object of the game is to win...I would say this much, if a wolf is partnered as a rook, knight, bishop - then they have an extreme advantage...because not only can they communicate with their partner but also their wolves...and they would know the layout of the board before anyone...that's disconcerting...

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

im here, and I havent moved becasue i see no probable alternative.. I belive hoops... and I think were better off lynching someone that no lynch. if there is a reasonble alternative then ill move...

i guess the only other option really is KWhit since I have no reason to doubt hoops, and I'm certainly not lying

[The Jackal]

and i'm gone

[jeheinz72]

I just can't take the risk of Jackal being good and a seer. This is the only vote that makes much sense to me at this point.

Unvote Jackal
Vote KWhit

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

2. Hi, Alan! Going to join the party at some point? Would love to hear your thoughts (you are in this game, correct?)

He's not. It was between the two of us to step in and replace ITC.

[oliegirl]

Vote count?

[claphamsa]

unvote jackyl
vote kwit

[claphamsa]

Ill bite now. should be a 6-6 tie.

[claphamsa]

I hoep someone scans jackyl....

[RendeR]

should br 5-5 jackal and kwhit

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

I hoep someone scans jackyl....

I don't think anyone necessarily can, since he's a knight there isn't one "on his side" this turn.

[RendeR]

err, well I dunno now with all the shuffling.