Werewolf XXXVII: Middle-Earth - GAME ENDS. Who Won? Check it out!

[st.cronin]

I completely agree with 99% of saldana's take yesterday. I just wasn't around to post it. So, put me on your list as well, CR.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I completely agree with 99% of saldana's take yesterday. I just wasn't around to post it. So, put me on your list as well, CR.

I'm confused. CR voted for Saldana?

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I completely agree with 99% of saldana's take yesterday. I just wasn't around to post it. So, put me on your list as well, CR.

Are you saying that you agree with Saldana that AlanT was attacking Blade and CR should condider you suspicious too or are you saying you agree with CR that Saldana was over reacting and on the offensive?

Also, what is the herbalist, that is what Fouts was listed as on his role?

[Alan T]

I was wondering about the Herbalist role myself. In normal WW games, the herbalist is the bodyguard role I believe.. I'm wondering if it is here as well, or if it is more of a specialized role for the theme. Perhaps here the herbalist could do something with kingsfoil (Athelas) to help people out.

Not sure how Athelas would help a good person though in a game where the night kill is instant, unless there are people with some kind of poison or time-delayed death attacks, and the herbalist being dead means there is no remedy any longer.

[Lathum]

I think the herbalist is a vanilla role. I assume since we live in a town I assume we all have some sort of occupation and role.

I think those of you with knowldege of LOTR may be reading into things to much...

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think the herbalist is a vanilla role. I assume since we live in a town I assume we all have some sort of occupation and role.

I think those of you with knowldege of LOTR may be reading into things to much...

I probably have been reading too much into things, if i had stayed quiet I wouldn't be under the barrage of attacks now. Maybe I am hurting things more than helping by showing off my love for Tolkien's writings.

Its just hard to describe a passion without appearing fanatical I guess. Some people get carried away over Star Wars or who knows what. Middle-earth was my "fantasy" as a child growing up. I still have my original paperbacks (now falling apart and partially missing covers) from 1968 even. Growing up, my father didn't really spend much time with me.. was always too busy with work to come to my baseball or football games. The only thing he ever did with me was read and talk about Tolkien's world.

I'll take a step back I suppose though since its causing more problems than its worth.

[Lathum]

AlanT- I'm not so sure you are "muddying" things up but since it was clearly stated you could play this game without knowledge of LOTR so I would be shocked if there were mechanisms in the game that were specific to knowledge of the story.

[BrianD]

Any thoughts on why Fouts was killed last night? Just someone knocking out a good player, or were there other reasons?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Alan T

For whatever its worth, Blade never trusts me in games and I wouldn't be suprised if he thought I was up to some ploy with him. I don't find Blade's response to uncharacteristic for me at all in most games that I am in with him.

He was completely and utterly wrong about my intent, and when he attacked me, I had to defend myself, but reading back its not too uncharacteristic of him.

Two things...you keep saying i never trust you, but last game you and i were best friends. So i take that to mean your still trying to discredit my opinion.

Secondly, i never attacked you. I said you were trying to make me look bad, which you are doing even now with this quoted part. If you think that was me attacking, or that you think your always my top suspect, you have never seen me go to extremes. I was not mad at all yesterday, and you are not even close to always being on my suspect list. Hoops and barkeep are...your not...sorry, but i really dont like how you keep saying things that flat out arent true

[Tyrith]

Alan, it isn't as much that I think you're going psycho again, but that you've proven you're capable of surviving doing very wolfish things sometimes. I just don't want this to turn into something like RE where you're in the driver's seat for several days and we can't figure out where we stand. And yes, I didn't read yesterday as close as I should have, sorry.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Any thoughts on why Fouts was killed last night? Just someone knocking out a good player, or were there other reasons?

First instinct is that it's just another kill a solid player who probably won't be guarded, small chance he could be scanned plays. They couldn't kill anyone out of the alan/saldana/blade trio unless they're all good because we're just looking for excuses to come down on them...the only way they could ever have done that is if all three of them are good and they wanted us to kill our own active players. Beyond that, who knows?

[spleen1015]

I find it funny that we're playing a game where it is the good guys' job to figure out who the bad guys are and it is the bad guys' job to not let that happen and folks are getting irritated with each other over those things.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I find it funny that we're playing a game where it is the good guys' job to figure out who the bad guys are and it is the bad guys' job to not let that happen and folks are getting irritated with each other over those things.

I HATE YOU! GO AWAY!

...yeah, that is pretty funny

[Grammaticus]

Anxiety,

Any word on what we are going to do about Neuqua? Basically is he going to be replaced or not. If not, then we know it is up to us to determine in game. If he is, then can it be done today so as not to hold a position over multiple days?

Might be that you are in the process of figuring that out now, but just thought I would ask.

[Thomkal]

Apologies all, I've been dealing with a balky AOL connection all morning, and just was able to get on a few minutes ago. I will likely post sporadically this afternoon as I get caught up on stuff here and elsewhere.

I did want to say that this whole Alan vs Blade thing sounds like two fellow villagers just arguing with each other to me.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Apologies all, I've been dealing with a balky AOL connection all morning, and just was able to get on a few minutes ago. I will likely post sporadically this afternoon as I get caught up on stuff here and elsewhere.

I did want to say that this whole Alan vs Blade thing sounds like two fellow villagers just arguing with each other to me.

Well, I'd say it sounds like Alan and Blade arguing with each other since they seem to do this as any combination of roles.

[Schmidty]

I still think it's interesting that AlanT seems to be having a bit of innocent fun with the LotR history/flavor in this game, and that certain people are absolutely lambasting him over it.

Sometimes I wonder if the people arguing with each other the most, while at the same time not pushing a lynch on the other person, are actually riffing off of each other from the same side.

That sentence made absolutely no sense. But I know what I meant, damnit.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I, for one, am sorry to see what has happened to Imelda. I hope everyone now realizes what we're up against. The good folk of Bree are under attack. This isn't a game. Which makes me even more upset with Blade. If he's crazy, we should get rid of him before he sells us out. Or if he's acting crazy, what are his motives? Just having fun? Think Imelda is having fun now?

I'm sorry. I'm just really upset by this news. Imelda and I were friends. We used to meet at the Prancing Pony for drinks and to smoke. She had the best pipe-weed around. I'm really going to miss her.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I still think it's interesting that AlanT seems to be having a bit of innocent fun with the LotR history/flavor in this game, and that certain people are absolutely lambasting him over it.

Sometimes I wonder if the people arguing with each other the most, while at the same time not pushing a lynch on the other person, are actually riffing off of each other from the same side.

That sentence made absolutely no sense. But I know what I meant, damnit.

I know, and I feel bad about having to bust him for it, but the "innocent fun" could be used to screw around with us in certain situations. Or it could have, until Anxiety nerfed it.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

They couldn't kill anyone out of the alan/saldana/blade trio unless they're all good because we're just looking for excuses to come down on them...the only way they could ever have done that is if all three of them are good and they wanted us to kill our own active players. Beyond that, who knows?

Or one (or more) of the Alan/Saldana/Blade trio is evil. I know the two factions of darkness are playing against each other as well, but why would they take out one of their own and not someone from the light?

[BrianD]

Is it possible they didn't know he was Dark?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Is it possible they didn't know he was Dark?

Who? I don't know if the agents of darkness know who all is dark, but if they're in the same faction they'll know each other.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Who? I don't know if the agents of darkness know who all is dark, but if they're in the same faction they'll know each other.

I agree that none of them would take out a member of their own faction, but if one or more were dark and on the same team, they may not have knows that Scoobz was on the other dark team (or was a dark independent).

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Or one (or more) of the Alan/Saldana/Blade trio is evil. I know the two factions of darkness are playing against each other as well, but why would they take out one of their own and not someone from the light?

Are you talking about scoobz?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

No, I'm talking about the person that took out Fouts.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

No, I'm talking about the person that took out Fouts.

Oops, I thought that comment was about the Scoobz lynch.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

No, I'm talking about the person that took out Fouts.

The two dark armies dont know the members of their rival darkness id imagine. I was somewhat expecting two kills with two dark armies. If fouts was the bodyguard, i wonder why he didnt protect himself on night one

[Lathum]

ok, so I'm confused. Fouts wasn't evil so where is this conversation going?

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I will be out all day (working both jobs), so I have to get my vote in here.

Nothing has really come forth from the night actions yet, other than poor Fouts' death, of course, so I don't have much to go on.

I will stick with my reasoning from last night and follow up on suspicions, for lack of a better candidate. I am sure someone will emerge today, but I unfortunately won't be around to change my vote. So hopefully my suspicions are correct.

VOTE SALDANA

1. please reference post numbers where i "overreacted", as i hardly think i did anything of the sort.


after that, please evaluate the following statements (alan please take no offense from this, as i am just as 'bad' as you are)

1. the particular theme of this game allows for various levels of background knowledge

2. alan defined himself very early as having a extensive knowledge of LOTR geekdom

3. other players in the game expressed having know knowledge of said geekdom

4. alan made statements that drew upon his geekdom knowledge and presented those statements as fact

5. those statements were made in an accusatory manner towards blade

6. anyone with no or little geekdom knowledge may see alan as an authority and take his statements to be true

7. i, also having significant knowledge of LOTR geekdom pointed out that Alans statements are not necessarily fact, and should not be taken as such

8. an extremely geeky discussion ensued over how he was deriving his statements, versus where i was deriving my arguements with them.

9. he gave his point of view, i disagreed with it, and moved on....note, i did not vote for alan yesterday, and will not likely vote for him today

where exactly did i do anything wolfish in the least...my actions yesterday were performed in an effort to make sure that people that dont share alan and I's fascination with LOTR were not led astray by the statements alan was presenting. he made presented statements as facts...i parried by saying they were not fact..

please explain how your logic progressed from me exposing my knowledge of Middle Earth in an effort to make sure all the townspeople had two different sources of information as opposed to only alan's perspective to my being on the side of Darkness

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by saldana

please explain how your logic progressed from me exposing my knowledge of Middle Earth in an effort to make sure all the townspeople had two different sources of information as opposed to only alan's perspective to my being on the side of Darkness

Easy! Chief Rum is a dark dude.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by saldana

1. please reference post numbers where i "overreacted", as i hardly think i did anything of the sort.


after that, please evaluate the following statements (alan please take no offense from this, as i am just as 'bad' as you are)

1. the particular theme of this game allows for various levels of background knowledge

2. alan defined himself very early as having a extensive knowledge of LOTR geekdom

3. other players in the game expressed having know knowledge of said geekdom

4. alan made statements that drew upon his geekdom knowledge and presented those statements as fact

5. those statements were made in an accusatory manner towards blade

6. anyone with no or little geekdom knowledge may see alan as an authority and take his statements to be true

7. i, also having significant knowledge of LOTR geekdom pointed out that Alans statements are not necessarily fact, and should not be taken as such

8. an extremely geeky discussion ensued over how he was deriving his statements, versus where i was deriving my arguements with them.

9. he gave his point of view, i disagreed with it, and moved on....note, i did not vote for alan yesterday, and will not likely vote for him today

where exactly did i do anything wolfish in the least...my actions yesterday were performed in an effort to make sure that people that dont share alan and I's fascination with LOTR were not led astray by the statements alan was presenting. he made presented statements as facts...i parried by saying they were not fact..

please explain how your logic progressed from me exposing my knowledge of Middle Earth in an effort to make sure all the townspeople had two different sources of information as opposed to only alan's perspective to my being on the side of Darkness

Pwned

[saldana]

i have watched CR make wild accusations for a number of games now, and not once have i been able to follow his logic...today is no different.

( and IIRC, not once has he been anywhere close to correct )

vote Chief Rum

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by saldana

i have watched CR make wild accusations for a number of games now, and not once have i been able to follow his logic...today is no different.

I was thinking the same thing. I will likely vote for Chief today, but I want to see how things develop.

[Izulde]

Is it just me or has Blade been awful quiet today after the brouhaha yesterday?

To me, that suggests he's quite possibly Dark, since he knows that spotlighted trouble on him, and now he's laying low and hoping to be avoided... so that'll be my vote for now.

VOTE BLADE

[Izulde]

dola,

Okay, so Blade's been active after I read through more... but it just seems like a form of verbally laying low, if that makes sense.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Is it just me or has Blade been awful quiet today after the brouhaha yesterday?

To me, that suggests he's quite possibly Dark, since he knows that spotlighted trouble on him, and now he's laying low and hoping to be avoided... so that'll be my vote for now.

VOTE BLADE

Its 11 AM here, im in college, i have classes...im on my lunch break right now. And already i have gotten in 3 posts...little trigger happy here izulde?

By the way, those 3 are 3 times as many as you have today

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Its 11 AM here, im in college, i have classes...im on my lunch break right now. And already i have gotten in 3 posts...little trigger happy here izulde?

By the way, those 3 are 3 times as many as you have today

It's just the general vibe I'm getting, that you're running scared.

[Blade6119]

Well i have classes for the next 4 hours, so i guess ill be running scared until im out

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

The two dark armies dont know the members of their rival darkness id imagine. I was somewhat expecting two kills with two dark armies. If fouts was the bodyguard, i wonder why he didnt protect himself on night one

Why were you expecting two kills of the dark faction? The Scoobz kill was completely by luck. If they already lost one member, why take out another? Why wouldn't they go after someone who was good? That would be like the rangers taking out the townsfolk for no reason. In the long run, something like that could happen, but why so early? I would think that the forces of darkness are working together right now and will turn on each other later.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Why were you expecting two kills of the dark faction? The Scoobz kill was completely by luck. If they already lost one member, why take out another? Why wouldn't they go after someone who was good? That would be like the rangers taking out the townsfolk for no reason. In the long run, something like that could happen, but why so early? I would think that the forces of darkness are working together right now and will turn on each other later.

I think he means two night kills, which likely would have been 2 good guys getting killed. Usually when there are 2 evil factions, they don’t know who each other are, so they could end up killing each other while targeting someone they think is good.

Basically I think Blade was saying he expected a kill from the Sauron Agents and a kill from the Saruman Agents. But there was only one kill.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Why were you expecting two kills of the dark faction? The Scoobz kill was completely by luck. If they already lost one member, why take out another? Why wouldn't they go after someone who was good? That would be like the rangers taking out the townsfolk for no reason. In the long run, something like that could happen, but why so early? I would think that the forces of darkness are working together right now and will turn on each other later.

I have to agree with this. Right now they need to be getting in good guy kills, because making sure darkness wins seems like it's going to be more important than making sure their part of darkness wins.

Speculation in this regard:

1) If the bad guys have some sort of seer role, perhaps they will be able to eventually figure out who some/most/all of our rangers are. If so, they can keep them alive longer. Eventually the side of darkness will have numbers on the rangers and can control the vote while not actually winning the game. At that point the darkness sides will probably start tearing into each other and the game might turn three ways. I don't know what, if any, value this has for us at this time.

2) All of this is highly speculative because we don't know how many bad guys there are. We can't begin to accurately predict that number until we know what kind of roles we have on our side. Thus, we're probably going to be fairly clueless for another couple of days, in this regard.

Other observations:

- saldana's self-defense today points out the reasons why I put Alan "on notice" last night. Someone controlling the conversation putting out information like that is dangerous in general, good or bad.

- I can't really disagree with saldana's assessment of Chief Rum.

- I have zero clue as to what to do today besides killing alan to figure out how serious/dumb he was being yesterday, and that feels stupid...I'd still rather let him draw attention another day or two, then kill him and use him for vote records, or let him be night killed if he's good. Loud people shouldn't be killed early without good reason because they provoke so much controversy and tend to spin webs around themselves and once we figure out their allegiance we can unspin the webs. Net of it is that I have no clue for today.

I should be around.

[SnDvls]

it's possible there was a conversion and no kill too if we are looking at two evil sides battling it out.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Victory Conditions:

Agents of Sauron: Major victory if darkness wins and no Agents of Saruman are alive.

Agents of Saruman: Major victory if darkness wins and no Agents of Sauron remain.

If the Agents of Darkness win, and both Sauron and Saruman are still represented, a power struggle begins. The GM will determine which faction wrests control and which faction is ousted.

this is what led to my conclusion of conversion

I bet it's a numbers game for the darkness too.

they need to have the numbers to win the game, but also the numbers to beat the other dark faction too is my guess

[BrianD]

It seems like the last few games we killed off all of the talkative guys before deciding that we should look at some of the quiet ones. Should we look at mixing that up in this game and start with the quiet ones?

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

this is what led to my conclusion of conversion

I bet it's a numbers game for the darkness too.

they need to have the numbers to win the game, but also the numbers to beat the other dark faction too is my guess

The rules say if the Darkness wins and both dark factions are still around, the GM would pick a winner. They will either need to kill each other off, or close enough to guarantee their own win.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

I think he means two night kills, which likely would have been 2 good guys getting killed. Usually when there are 2 evil factions, they don’t know who each other are, so they could end up killing each other while targeting someone they think is good.

Basically I think Blade was saying he expected a kill from the Sauron Agents and a kill from the Saruman Agents. But there was only one kill.

If they don't know who each other is, what does everyone think about them maybe having a seer? I don't expect any of us has a remotely intelligent answer right now, but this is going to be important when we look at voting records.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by BrianD

It seems like the last few games we killed off all of the talkative guys before deciding that we should look at some of the quiet ones. Should we look at mixing that up in this game and start with the quiet ones?

I'm for it. Got anyone in particular that's sticking out to you?

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

If they don't know who each other is, what does everyone think about them maybe having a seer? I don't expect any of us has a remotely intelligent answer right now, but this is going to be important when we look at voting records.

Makes sense I guess. They probably need to be able to identify the other faction and the Rangers.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

I think he means two night kills, which likely would have been 2 good guys getting killed. Usually when there are 2 evil factions, they don’t know who each other are, so they could end up killing each other while targeting someone they think is good.

Basically I think Blade was saying he expected a kill from the Sauron Agents and a kill from the Saruman Agents. But there was only one kill.

Ok. If that's the case, then yeah it is interesting that there was only one kill. It seems like Fouts could be the result of the Sauron faction since they are more eager to act now that the Black Riders were in town. Saruman lost a player, so it could be that they were lying low last night.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

I'm for it. Got anyone in particular that's sticking out to you?

Not particularly. Looking at the player list, I don't seem to remember hearing much from KWhit, Swaggs, SnDvls, or Sublime2 (or obviously Neuqua), but I am going strictly by memory. I'll have to look back.