Werewolf Small Game XI -- Divination Nation! (GAME OVER WOLVES WIN!! )

[ntndeacon]

to be honest. I don't know anymore. see ihave a problem. I scanned both of you. one of those scans were wrong. because you both turned up students. so I KNOW that 2 out of my 4 posts are wrong. I have seen very little evidence that Chief Rum is the wolf. but I will put a couple of questions before Iretire for the night. and a little analysis

[DaddyTorgo]

honestly i was expecting you to come back and say i was wolf if you were the wolf ntn. So either you're not the wolf or you are playing this 2nd-level and thinking you can win my trust and get me to move on CR with you.

so really, i want to hear from you and i want to hear from CR what the case against the other person is in your mind.

[ntndeacon]

One of my main problems still with you DT is your lack of any good information about you or by you. If I do not look at wolfs or potentioal wolves info my info is the only bit itrust 100%. Now I have been on your case from basically night one. so even though my scan brought you up a peg or 2 that weighs on my mind

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Nice, so make us all wait? To what end? A new game is starting on Monday. Why drag this out? To satisfy your own pique? Come on, DT, you're better than that.

I will say your desperation gives me a little doubt. It's hard to fake that, But I have also seen wolves whoa re desperate. Even in this game, st. cronin made some compelling statements, IMO, before going down as a wolf after all. Some people are good at that, and I don't know that I could discount you pulling that off.

And that's if I choose to ignore my scans, which say you're a wolf (twice) and NTN is a student.

As for your question to me, yes, if the students win, I win. Although I don't know what good asking does. How many ways can you ask "Are you a wolf?" for it do any good? If a wolf has been lyingg (and I assume he has), why would he suddenly come clean now?

This only makes me feel more secure in my vote. My scans say wolf. My scans also say the only other person besides me is a student. And you're doing anything and everything to extend the game and create doubt. I certainly hope ntn sees through this.

Chief,

I have a question for you.
When did you scan me?

[ntndeacon]

and on that question, I am off to bed. I will be on for a little while in the am before church... and then afterwards about 2 eastern/ 1 central.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Chief,

I have a question for you.
When did you scan me?

Night 0. I was wondering if you would catch that.

I said I scanned AlanT because I said I would, but I was providing cover for scanning someone else. I chose someone I thought would be underscanned...you. You are a veteran player who often skates under the radar. And I truly thought everyone was going to scan AlanT anyway.

You came up a student.

When it came time to reveal scans on Day One, I rolled the dice and picked "villager" for AlanT. In my mind, he was being to forward to be a wolf anyway. I was happy to see he did indeed turn out to be a villager. I also thought I made the right choice in scanning you, because you didn't show up at all all Day One. It wasn't too out of character for you, and I was concerned you would be under represented. Most of everyone else int he game are posters who post fairly often or were new people I couldn't yet have a read on. You, path, Grammaticus, Swaggs, some others, are vet players I am used to seeing start off games quiet, and I knew this game wasn't going to go long enough. So I decided not to let you go UTR. If you came up wolf, I would have revealed you. Since you didn't, I said I scanned Alan to preserve what I had said in my first post in the game.

I never thought you would be one of the last ones here, and that that scan would be as useful as it has been. It's the reason I scanned DT a second time.

It was an odd coincidence you happened to also scan me that night. I don't know why you chose me. Not sure you ever said.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

honestly i was expecting you to come back and say i was wolf if you were the wolf ntn. So either you're not the wolf or you are playing this 2nd-level and thinking you can win my trust and get me to move on CR with you.

so really, i want to hear from you and i want to hear from CR what the case against the other person is in your mind.

You're asking for my case against NTN? Not much. He has scanned as a student to me. The only person to scan him as a wolf was you. He came back that I was a student. To my knowledge, there is no other evidence against him that I am aware of.

The case against you is much, much stronger. I have scanned you twice as a wolf. You fingered Lathum, a villager. You represent the only evidence I know of against NTN, who come sup a villager in all ways otherwise.

There is no doubt in my mind that between the two of you, you are the last remaining wolf.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

and on that question, I am off to bed. I will be on for a little while in the am before church... and then afterwards about 2 eastern/ 1 central.

My niece's first birthday is tomorrow, and then I work my night shift until the wee hours. I probably work out after that. So you all will likely see me in the morning before I leave for the birthday picnic, and that's it. I suppose that's a potentially huge disadvantage, leaving DT here to wreak havoc and try to swing you his way. I can only do what I can do, though. So you will do what you may.

I don't intend to change my vote.

[DaddyTorgo]

jeezus...one of you two is full of crap

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

jeezus...one of you two is full of crap

From my perspective, there is one obvious wolf candidate by far (you) and two unlikely but possible candidates. It makes sense to me that you would try to divide us and create doubt. It's what I would do if I were you.

But I'm not going to buy that line, and I certainly hope ntn won't either. I would be extremely disappointed to see what is to me a pretty clear cut situation come unwound by a crafty wolf.

So I am hesitant to give you your forum. But if you insist on this, then I say do as you yourself would have us do: make a case against both of us.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm a damm villager. I will make my case tomorrow...it's late and i want to go to bed.

[ntndeacon]

All right. I have to go with my gut here.
Vote DaddyTorgo
I have thought this was the case from night one.(wasn't around on day one.) So I will stick with my guns. If you are the wolf Chief , then Kudos, you have played with a combo of luck and skill.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Night 0. I was wondering if you would catch that.

I said I scanned AlanT because I said I would, but I was providing cover for scanning someone else. I chose someone I thought would be underscanned...you. You are a veteran player who often skates under the radar. And I truly thought everyone was going to scan AlanT anyway.

You came up a student.

When it came time to reveal scans on Day One, I rolled the dice and picked "villager" for AlanT. In my mind, he was being to forward to be a wolf anyway. I was happy to see he did indeed turn out to be a villager. I also thought I made the right choice in scanning you, because you didn't show up at all all Day One. It wasn't too out of character for you, and I was concerned you would be under represented. Most of everyone else int he game are posters who post fairly often or were new people I couldn't yet have a read on. You, path, Grammaticus, Swaggs, some others, are vet players I am used to seeing start off games quiet, and I knew this game wasn't going to go long enough. So I decided not to let you go UTR. If you came up wolf, I would have revealed you. Since you didn't, I said I scanned Alan to preserve what I had said in my first post in the game.

I never thought you would be one of the last ones here, and that that scan would be as useful as it has been. It's the reason I scanned DT a second time.

It was an odd coincidence you happened to also scan me that night. I don't know why you chose me. Not sure you ever said.

I never said. but the idea was I did not think you would be scanned otherwise..at least not on the first night. SInce you are usually a more quiet vet, I wanted at least one scan on you.

[DaddyTorgo]

aaargh. Are either of you open to the idea of changing your vote and voting with someone who is a student?

[DaddyTorgo]

ntn...don't you find it odd that on D1 in a small-game CR was willing to "roll the dice" and possibly put wrong information out there that wouuld get him lynched? If he was a villager why would he take that risk in a game where every villager-death is so important?

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't know which way to vote right now honestly. you're both looking fairly suspicious.

I just know that if you lynch me there's a 100% chance the students will lose the game. Whereas if we lynch one of you two, at least there's a 50% chance of winning.

so honestly...i'm willing to go either way. But if you both come on and say that you're locked and unwilling to change then i'll just vote nightfall and we can end this game as a loss.

[Chief Rum]

I have already stated my case as plainly as I could. I haven't seen a reason to change it. Plus, I will be soon be gone for the day, and unable to change my vote even if I wanted to.

So I will go along with DT's suggestion and...

VOTE NIGHTFALL

[DaddyTorgo]

ntn...you're the village's last hope...lynching me will 100% result in a loss for the village. i'm not exactly sold on the fact that you're a villager as well, but the 50/50 shot there is better than the 100% shot of losing.

VOTE CHIEF RUM

[path12]

Current vote totals:

DaddyTorgo 2 -- Chief Rum (420), ntndeacon (462)
Chief Rum 1 -- DaddyTorgo (468)

One nightfall vote has been received.

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah...imma hold my nightfall vote until ntn hopefully checks in path so that I can try to stop him from losing the game

[path12]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

yeah...imma hold my nightfall vote until ntn hopefully checks in path so that I can try to stop him from losing the game

At this point I think we'll just wait the hour and change until deadline anyway. I probably won't be checking back until then regardless....my dandelion field aka "lawn" awaits.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by path12

At this point I think we'll just wait the hour and change until deadline anyway. I probably won't be checking back until then regardless....my dandelion field aka "lawn" awaits.

oh that's right. It's nice and early for you to go and...pluck dandelion's.

[DaddyTorgo]

dammit. Let the record show my other villagers basically made their mind up and deserted me. whichever of you two was the last wolf...well played.

personally if I had to take my guess right now i'd say CR, based on what he's said in the past day or so, what he's observed about me and the fact that he's refused to change his vote.

So yeah...deadline...game over...wolves win.

[hoopsguy]

Definitely an unfulfilling ending to the game with people not around for the discussion. Not sure how much there would have been, if people had their minds made up, but still a bummer to see minimal posts on the final day.

[path12]

Deadline.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Definitely an unfulfilling ending to the game with people not around for the discussion. Not sure how much there would have been, if people had their minds made up, but still a bummer to see minimal posts on the final day.

I had my guess who was the last wolf. Lets see if I was right!

[path12]

Final vote results:

DaddyTorgo 2 -- Chief Rum (420), ntndeacon (462)
Chief Rum 1 -- DaddyTorgo (468)

"It's got to be DaddyTorgo". "Agreed". "You guys are crazy, it is Chief, I know it!"

Then the three of you stare silently at each other for much of the rest of the day, as if trying to see inside each other to find out which is the wolf. Finally, it is time. DaddyTorgo is killed, and ntndeacon waits for the change. And waits. And waits. And then realizes, and turns to see Chief Rum moving in for the kill. "I am famished. Haven't had a thing to eat since hoopsguy". ntndeacon mutters his final words: "I don't think this school is really all that good after all....."

THE WOLVES WIN!

Thanks to all for playing. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did running it.

[path12]

Here is the rundown of wrong scans by night:

There were three wrong views N0, hoops and DT seeing Lathum as a wolf (bad dice there) and one by ntn showing Chief as good.

Night 1 there were two bad views. ITC read hoops as a wolf and DT read ntn as a wolf.

Night 2 there were two bad views again, with both Chief and ntn showing Cronin as a student.

Night 3 there was just one, and that was hoopsguy showing ntn as a wolf as he was killed, so it didn't really come into play.

[Alan T]

Ahh well I was wrong. I guessed it was ntn, not chief. I just knew it wasnt DT is all

[path12]

Hoops has asked me about giving DT a wrong scan N0 and then not giving him a scan later in the game and why I wouldn't talk about it then.

My feeling was this. I thought it important for everyone to have a scan N0, so assigned a target at random for DT. The dice just happened to come up bad.

But after the game is underway, I feel it is the players responsibility to put the scan in. The reason I didn't mention this is because of the possibility that DT could have been playing the no scan as a bluff, as a few of the players did by posting a different scan than they received (generally the wolves did this).

[DaddyTorgo]

DAMMIT NTN!!

if you'd come back, I know I could have talked you into going after chief. The way he acknowledged my frustration and basically admitted (to me it seemed) that I was likely good but then refused to even consider changing his mind just SCREAMED wolf to me there at the end!

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

not really mad, just frustrated

[DaddyTorgo]

great game path...thanks for running it.

[hoopsguy]

It was a good game, but given how poorly Day 1 went for us (two bad scans on Lathum, one of which was a random selection of players for DT, and bad scan on Chief). It just didn't feel like we could overcome this - there was so little margin for error.

I would like to think that I would not have pushed hard for Lathum on Day 1 without a second scan supporting me. I know I didn't immediately come out with guns blazing for him. Would we have ended up on one of the wolves that was scanned instead - Cronin or ITC? Who knows, but it was definitely uphill from that point forward.

Nice game, Chief. I gave you a good amount of trust for the role with Cronin. It wasn't unconditional, but you always felt like a safer choice than DT or NTN for me.

Scans - 19 out of 27 were good. So we were at less than 75%, along with having a couple of the poor scans really haunt us (Day 1 again).

Shrug - gave it the old college try.

[path12]

It is interesting to see how the game went. Lathum going down so quickly day 1 was bad for the students, but it really looked like there was a good chance they were going to be able to pull it out with ITC and cronin being suspected right away -- I was afraid that it was balanced in favor of the students and that I should have given the wolves some limited knowledge of each other.

Chief played a fantastic game especially by not being afraid to aggressively go after the other wolves, plus he got lucky with ntn's bad scan showing him good early on.

All in all, it ended up feeling pretty well balanced to me. I would like to run another game with this ruleset with the original 13 players.

[RendeR]

One thing that would have reversed this result.

I scanned Rum as a wolf, right before i got slaughtered....

had that result become public knowledge, Rum wouldn't have lasted through the next day and Cronin would have been the easy final wolf target.

God I had this one figured =)

bastards took me out before i could work my magic!

great game!

[ntndeacon]

nice job Chief. I was fooled. I should have jumped harder on the scan of me. Sorry about that DT. I kinda knew that it was going to be rough getting back to the computer. I guess ijust believed the early scan over the late one.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

nice job Chief. I was fooled. I should have jumped harder on the scan of me. Sorry about that DT. I kinda knew that it was going to be rough getting back to the computer. I guess ijust believed the early scan over the late one.

it's okay ntn. Would you even have seen what I saw with chief's actions here today and last night though and moved your vote? or not even?

[Lathum]

God if you fuckers had just listened to me day one...

[Chief Rum]

Wow, I thought DT would get ntn to switch. I get lucky. I made some stupid mistakes at the end.

I PM'd path about this last night and admitted I was a dolt.

Saturday day (before night orders were in), I said I had yet to put in my "night orders". I, of course, had two orders--a scan and a kill. Only villagers would have one order. Wolves have two. It was in the middle of a long post (of course), but I was banging my head nonetheless.

The second mistake was not publically scanning NTN on the last night and saying he was a wolf. It likely would have solidified DT going after NTN, and I wouldn't have come up much with NTN and DT trying to prove the other was the wolf. Instead, I stupidly said I had scanned DT a second time, which forced him out of desperation really to take a good look at me.

The last mistake, NTN already knows about. I slipepd with my NTN scan reveal. I actually did scan AlanT on N0. I scanned NTN on N1 after he said I was a student to see if he was a wolf covering for me. Publically I said I scanned ITC as a wolf. That was the only time I publically guessed someone's allegiance, BTW. Every other time, I either knew or said exactly who I scanned and what the result was. I thought NTN might go harder after me after my scan reveal, and I had to make something up on the fly. Fortunately, it worked. I don't think it would have if A) NTN hadn't already scanend me as a student; and B) DT wasn't coming off as wolfish as he was.

I had a lot of fun with the game, of course. Thanks, path, for running it. You have restored my confidence in myself after a miserable showing in the Rome game.

As wolves, we did get very, very lucky with those N0 scans. But I sorta counterbalanced that by leading the charge against ITC and cronin. So who knows?

Here were my scans:

N0: Scanned AlanT (student): I told the truth here, only time I did.
N1: Scanned NTN (student). Said ITC was a wolf, which he was.
N2: Scanned cronin (student; only time I got a bad read). Said I scanned DT as a wolf.
N3: Scanned DT (student): I lied and said DT was a wolf (again).

Render, your death was no accident. You were originally set to scan me on N1, per the plan put out when you last posted. A new plan came up later, in which you were to scan AlanT, but I felt from reading the thread that you had missed that plan (and I was right). So I put in a kill order for you. I suspect cronin might have put one in for you, too, to cast suspicion on AlanT, as we were on a "first kill vote received" command order, and I put my kill order in late, late at night.

So don't feel like you were unlucky. I knew what you would reveal, and tried to make sure you couldn't do anything about it.

All right, off to Sun and Shadow or whatever Peregrine is calling his game...

P.S. Sorry DT and NTN for giving you both the runaround. I honestly felt pretty bad about screwing you over, especially DT, who seemed ready to jump through the monitor at me.

[st.cronin]

Boy was I confused for the entire game.

Day 1 - thought both Lathum and ITC were wolves. (I had scanned DaddyTorgo N0 - came back student)
Day 2 - had no way to help ITC (had scanned him N1 - came back wolf)
Day 3 - I was worried that DT was the 3rd wolf - had scanned hoopsguy the night before, came back student

This was a good game. I think this game was crying out for a "cultist" role. 2 wolves who know each other, 1 cultist, and the rest seers. Toss out the random.org stuff, and I think you get a great game.

[DaddyTorgo]

it's okay Rummy. I think I just noticed your "night orders" thing at some point, along with all that "i lied about my scan" thing and some other stuff...like when you said you sensed my desperation and thought i was right but then voted for me anyways, and i latched onto that. after that exchange with you mid-day I was relatively sure (call it 75-25) that you were the last wolf, unfortunately ntn didn't return to his computer for me to try to convince him. don't know that it would have mattered though.

gg