NFL 2019 Season Thread

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by molson

And posters here.

I've seen this done on reddit, it could be fun here - post the first 10-20 board comments about a guy like Trubisky, see how the opinion of him evolved, to where we get to the point where it seems like it should have been obvious in retrospect.

I might be mis-remembering a bit, but I recall that:

I was down on Mahomes (too inconsistent).

I was down on Trubisky (if you can't indisputably win the starting job at a second tier school like UNC, then you might not be first round talent).

I was high on Watson (CU Tiger has my proxy).

[stevew]

Isn’t Trashbisky the obv solution?

[thesloppy]

Truboosky. There are endless options!

[BishopMVP]

OBJ apparently taking the baton from AB this week. I feel like not wearing hard objects on the field regardless of cost was known down to U-10 soccer, but hey he "wants it to be about football, not the watch" so don't ask him to take it off.

[stevew]

Yeah it’s clearly the same thing.

[cuervo72]

Trubusty.

[Atocep]

I didn't have much of an opinion on Trubisky prior to the draft. I really hadn't seen him play much. My take on others in that draft thread:

I like Watson and Mahomes although I think both need some time to sit. Dobbs would be my sleeper prospect.

Kaaya just seems like a guy that was never able to put everything together and didn't develop at Miami. Being essentially the same player for 3 years is a red flag for me.

[Carman Bulldog]

I'm speculating that the prevailing wisdom among the upper levels of management (and ownership) in the NFL is that you are still better off with a prototypical pocket passer (read white) as opposed to some of the more athletic modern style quarterbacks (read black). Or at the very least it's a safer pick.

I personally feel that Russell Wilson has probably had a huge influence in helping to change this over the past few years. But I think the train of thought still exists. There's probably a confirmation bias going on, where people look to the JaMarcus Russell's and EJ Manuel's as evidence of "athleticism" being overvalued.

Even just looking at guys like Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson, both had question marks about the ability of their skills translating to the NFL. No one ever thinks about how a player can change the position but rather how they will have to change and adapt to the NFL.

This article here sums up what I believe a lot of decision making people feel:

Russell Wilson, MVP candidate, strengths and weaknesses | SI.com

[bhlloy]

Or as it’s more widely known, the Peterman-Taylor principle

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Watson won 1 state title and lost 2 state title games in high school for a school that had a football team since the 1920s and has never before or since played for a state title.

Ehhhhh ... that's almost accurate but perhaps not a reflection of the situation there. They reached the finals the year before Watson took over (under future Bama QB Blake Sims) And only made the finals once in his tenure (his junior year, for the title), reaching the semifinals when he was a sophomore and a senior. (and even lost a region title to crosstown rival Flowery Branch vs future Gamecock Connor Shaw)

Watson was absolutely a transcendent talent - one of the most remarkable athletes I recall in HS football here. More than once we were in the booth doing our games and had a stream going to watch him shred a couple of the Athens teams that were in his region. He was highly entertaining to watch to say the least.

However ... they were 46-9 in his time there. They'd gone 26-2 before he arrived, and had a 43-6 stretch with a semifinal prior to that.

Among the problems, before/during/after Watson, was that they played in a notoriously weak region for most of several decades (and played smaller local rivals frequently for their non-region games) so when the playoffs rolled around they simply weren't battle-tested enough to handle elite competition.


edit to add: the reason that was sort of top of mind to me is that they spent a number of years in the same region with my HS alma mater, so their backstory dating from about the mid/late 70s and beyond is kind of familiar

[QuikSand]

The sexual assault/rape allegations against AB aren't totally new, I don't think, but the timing is just :chefskiss:

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by molson

And posters here.

I've seen this done on reddit, it could be fun here - post the first 10-20 board comments about a guy like Trubisky, see how the opinion of him evolved, to where we get to the point where it seems like it should have been obvious in retrospect.

This is what I could find...

"Btw, I don't quite know Mitch Trubisky well enough to denigrate him, but if you have him (or DeShone Kizer) over Deshaun Watson as an NFL QB I seriously question that judgment."

"Thought he showed a lot of the required intangibles last night but some of those throws in the 1st half were pretty rough."

"Watson doesn't have an NFL skill set right now. He's mediocre from the pocket, but worth taking a 3rd or 4th round shot on. With all the change in football, the biggest thing is still passing the ball from inside the tackles. I don't get the Kizer hype at all, but Trubisky is a better prospect."

"If anyone drafts Trubisky in the first round they should be fired tomorrow."

"The only knock against him is that he only started 13 games. That's it.

He's got enough size, enough arm, a photographic memory, and he put up video game numbers. 68% completions, 3748 yards, 8.4 ypa, 30 TD, 6 INT. Athletic enough to run for over 300 yards and 5 TDs. He looked great in his spot duty the year before while Marquise Williams was putting up a pretty good season himself.

I'd take him over every other QB in this draft without hesitation. I look at him as a late first rounder, the only legit first round QB this year, solely due to lack of experience. Taking him top 10 isn't something I would do unless I was a good team that had gotten that pick through trade, but he and Nathan Peterman are the two guys I think have the best chance of actually being something in the NFL."

"I think Trubisky is the 4th best QB in this draft.

Personally I like Watson, Kaya and Peterman more."

"In all seriousness, I do like Watson and would probably take him before the other QBs. I'm just not sure anyone in this top 4 list (Trubisky, Watson, Mahomes and Kizer) will be an impact guy."

"Poor Bears fans."

"Bears paid a lot, but I think they trumped a lot of teams who wanted Trubisky there. If he turns out to be a stud Cleveland will be a laughing stock for another 10 years."

"I'll take Trubisky over Watson every day of the week, but not Mahomes."

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Always risky taking a Hawkeye in the 1st round. You might have ended up with another Chuck Long/Nick Bell/Tom Knight.

Im not sure why Im debating 1st round busts and booms with a fan of a team who doesnt ever have any players drafted near the 1st round.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Im not sure why Im debating 1st round busts and booms with a fan of a team who doesnt ever have any players drafted near the 1st round.

You arent debating anything.. They were busts... Whats to debate? Did you think they had great careers? I was being kind in that I didnt even include Robert Gallery on that list. As Ive told you more times than I can ever imagine I am not really a fan of the Gophers. I pay attention to them. I would be watching LSU/Alabama over the Gophers/Iowa if they were playing at the same time. I am a bigger fan a great college football games than 1 particular team.

[Warhammer]

I was wrong about Watson, I thought he was more of a product of the Clemson system than anything.

However, with regards to athletic QBs, I think a major factor is it is easier to make an offense for a pocket passer. Quality athletic guys do not grow on trees, and they have a higher risk getting hurt since they are runners more than pocket passers are. Combine that, with more than likely having to change what you do due to an injury, and it is not worth the risk.

Wilson is a great example, he is athletic, but the Seahawks do not do as much RPO plays as other teams with athletic guys.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

This is what I could find...

"Btw, I don't quite know Mitch Trubisky well enough to denigrate him, but if you have him (or DeShone Kizer) over Deshaun Watson as an NFL QB I seriously question that judgment."

"Thought he showed a lot of the required intangibles last night but some of those throws in the 1st half were pretty rough."

"Watson doesn't have an NFL skill set right now. He's mediocre from the pocket, but worth taking a 3rd or 4th round shot on. With all the change in football, the biggest thing is still passing the ball from inside the tackles. I don't get the Kizer hype at all, but Trubisky is a better prospect."

"If anyone drafts Trubisky in the first round they should be fired tomorrow."

"The only knock against him is that he only started 13 games. That's it.

He's got enough size, enough arm, a photographic memory, and he put up video game numbers. 68% completions, 3748 yards, 8.4 ypa, 30 TD, 6 INT. Athletic enough to run for over 300 yards and 5 TDs. He looked great in his spot duty the year before while Marquise Williams was putting up a pretty good season himself.

I'd take him over every other QB in this draft without hesitation. I look at him as a late first rounder, the only legit first round QB this year, solely due to lack of experience. Taking him top 10 isn't something I would do unless I was a good team that had gotten that pick through trade, but he and Nathan Peterman are the two guys I think have the best chance of actually being something in the NFL."

"I think Trubisky is the 4th best QB in this draft.

Personally I like Watson, Kaya and Peterman more."

"In all seriousness, I do like Watson and would probably take him before the other QBs. I'm just not sure anyone in this top 4 list (Trubisky, Watson, Mahomes and Kizer) will be an impact guy."

"Poor Bears fans."

"Bears paid a lot, but I think they trumped a lot of teams who wanted Trubisky there. If he turns out to be a stud Cleveland will be a laughing stock for another 10 years."

"I'll take Trubisky over Watson every day of the week, but not Mahomes."

This post is useless without usernames

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

I'm speculating that the prevailing wisdom among the upper levels of management (and ownership) in the NFL is that you are still better off with a prototypical pocket passer (read white) as opposed to some of the more athletic modern style quarterbacks (read black). Or at the very least it's a safer pick.

I personally feel that Russell Wilson has probably had a huge influence in helping to change this over the past few years. But I think the train of thought still exists. There's probably a confirmation bias going on, where people look to the JaMarcus Russell's and EJ Manuel's as evidence of "athleticism" being overvalued.

Even just looking at guys like Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson, both had question marks about the ability of their skills translating to the NFL. No one ever thinks about how a player can change the position but rather how they will have to change and adapt to the NFL.

This article here sums up what I believe a lot of decision making people feel:

Russell Wilson, MVP candidate, strengths and weaknesses | SI.com

Are we conflating skin color with style? No question NFL front offices did too for awhile, but Jamarcus Russell wasn't athletic, he had a huge arm. Just like conflating Mahomes & Jackson in the same sense is insane. (And all along I think I was on board the "Lamar Jackson can throw the football when playing bad defenses" and "Mahomes may not be a great QB but he has a howitzer" trains all along.)

[SirFozzie]

My thoughts regarding the latest twists in the AB thing. I do not feel comfortable with the situation. I know there's going to be a lot of "It's he said/she said" stuff going on, but here's the bottom line. Until the charges are investigated and more are known, I can't root for AB, and I hope the Pats put him on a Commissioner's Exempt list until such time. Some things are bigger then football. A lot of things are.

[RendeR]

Over Under on how long it takes brown to implode with the Boston media raging away at how they won't leave that topic alone?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Over Under on how long it takes brown to implode with the Boston media raging away at how they won't leave that topic alone?

That whole "accused of rape" topic? Idk, if he's guilty at all fuck him, if he's not then it's probably the best organization to be in & we'll just get a ton of bad publicity for it even though it all happened before his time here & clearly no one knew this would be dropped today.

[bhlloy]

If there are text messages that prove what she says they prove, I'd hope any team would get bad publicity for not suspending him while the investigation is ongoing, Pats or not. Not saying that he's guilty at this point, or that the text messages exist, but I'd agree with Foz that I hope the league and the Pats err on the side of caution here.

[jbergey22]

Enjoy your new toy Bellichick. Just the type of annoyance they need to help them regress.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Over Under on how long it takes brown to implode with the Boston media raging away at how they won't leave that topic alone?

Patriots will suspend him and he will accuse them of not having his back and he will want to get released..........vicious cycle AB is in.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Patriots will suspend him and he will accuse them of not having his back and he will want to get released..........vicious cycle AB is in.

The text messages/DM's are... aggressive, and the league might put him on the exempt list, or we might hold him out a week or two saying he "hasn't learned the offense yet" or something, but if Patrick Chung is playing while a criminal case against him is going through the courts I doubt the Patriots will suspend him for a civil case. I think everyone can see exactly what would likely happen in that case, so if we make the decision he's not worth it I'd guess we'd just cut bait instead of dragging it out.

[bhlloy]

Commissioner's exempt list seems to make too much sense for all involved, if nothing else the NFL is completely beholden to the court of public opinion. With that being said, everyone thought the Tyreek Hill deal was cut and dry given the recordings in the public domain and we all know how that turned out, so ???

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

You arent debating anything.. They were busts... Whats to debate? Did you think they had great careers? I was being kind in that I didnt even include Robert Gallery on that list. As Ive told you more times than I can ever imagine I am not really a fan of the Gophers. I pay attention to them. I would be watching LSU/Alabama over the Gophers/Iowa if they were playing at the same time. I am a bigger fan a great college football games than 1 particular team.

Gallery wasnt a bust. He had a very productive career at guard. Just not the left tackle they thought he would be. Too short of arms.

Why didnt you add all the success stories. Iowa has more players in the NFL than Texas and Penn St. And Oklahoma and Wisconsin.

Iowa develops pro players. Turns guys from small town south dakota into NFL stars Ghad Greenway picked in the 1st round by the Vikings.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Iowa has more players in the NFL than Texas and Penn St. And Oklahoma and Wisconsin.

I’ve looked at a few sites and this is not true other than Texas.

Where are you getting this info?

[JPhillips]

I was shocked during the game when the AFLAC question said that Texas hasn't had an offensive player drafted in the first round since Vince Young.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by lungs

I’ve looked at a few sites and this is not true other than Texas.

Where are you getting this info?

Yeah. I lost the site. It said Iowa had 25. But as I look at more and more sites, I see different numbers all over the place. Im looking at one know that has Iowa ans Wiscy with 27. That was before the 2019 draft.

The NCAA site says 24 on the 2019 NFL rosters. Which I guess makes sense.

Anyway, Iowa produces pro players. Always have under Ferentz, always will.
Its easy to take 5 star guys and get them drafted. Try it with 2 and 3 star guys.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Anyway, Iowa produces pro players. Always have under Ferentz, always will.
Its easy to take 5 star guys and get them drafted. Try it with 2 and 3 star guys.

Wrong thread, but how many weeks will it take for you to be back to wanting Ferentz fired?

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by lungs

Wrong thread, but how many weeks will it take for you to be back to wanting Ferentz fired?

I have given that up. I now want the AD fired. I dont want that guy hiring another coach. Unfortunately, Iowa just gave him an extension as well.

I will just look at Wiscy with envious eyes that they have Alvarez and take my 7.5 wins a season and watch Iowa play in Florida.

I tell you what though, The Iowa/Wisconsin game is going to be the best in the B1G this season.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Gallery wasnt a bust. He had a very productive career at guard. Just not the left tackle they thought he would be. Too short of arms.

Why didnt you add all the success stories. Iowa has more players in the NFL than Texas and Penn St. And Oklahoma and Wisconsin.

Iowa develops pro players. Turns guys from small town south dakota into NFL stars Ghad Greenway picked in the 1st round by the Vikings.

You dont draft guards with the 2nd overall pick for a reason. As a 2nd overall pick he was a bust. As an overall player, no he was fine.

[JPhillips]

But that's not a failure of the player. That's a failure of the college scouting folks. Gallery played well for what he was. It isn't his fault that people thought he could be something he wasn't.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

But that's not a failure of the player. That's a failure of the college scouting folks. Gallery played well for what he was. It isn't his fault that people thought he could be something he wasn't.

This could be said about basically anyone though right? Was it Jamarcus Russell's fault that he wasnt any good as a NFL QB or the scouting department? The conversation is about busts so whether it was the player, team, scouting department, coaching, or whatever a bust is still a bust.

[Lathum]

Darnold our Monday night with mono of all things. Too bad. I’ll be at the game. Was looking forward to the browns losing.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

This could be said about basically anyone though right? Was it Jamarcus Russell's fault that he wasnt any good as a NFL QB or the scouting department? The conversation is about busts so whether it was the player, team, scouting department, coaching, or whatever a bust is still a bust.

Jamarcus wasn't good at any position. Gallery was good at a different position. I think, can't play in the league, is a bust, but can't play there, but really good here, isn't a bust.

[spleen1015]

I have a problem with this whole AB thing. He hasn't been proven guilty. How can the NFL put him on the exempt list when they don't know anything about what happened other than someone is suing him?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I have a problem with this whole AB thing. He hasn't been proven guilty. How can the NFL put him on the exempt list when they don't know anything about what happened other than someone is suing him?

.

To address your question though... was he put in the exempt list? I haven't seen anything about it on the major news sites.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by panerd

.

To address your question though... was he put in the exempt list? I haven't seen anything about it on the major news sites.

He hasn't been, but there are a lot of folks saying he should be.

This is a different situation than Ray Rice.

If this was Julio Jones, would people be asking for him to be on the exempt list?

[molson]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I have a problem with this whole AB thing. He hasn't been proven guilty. How can the NFL put him on the exempt list when they don't know anything about what happened other than someone is suing him?

Technically the exempt list isn't punishment, the player is still getting paid. I think it's appropriate when there's a violent criminal charge pending - or maybe even just an pending investigation depending on the known facts. I don't think the league or the teams can wait for a conviction as prerequisite for the exempt list, or even for discipline. Criminal charges are resolved in different ways for different reasons - even Ray Rice was never convicted of anything.

I don't think the filing of a civil lawsuit alone can be enough even for the exempt list. The NFL will do it's own "investigation", but, usually, that just entails getting public records from the law enforcement agency, and they won't even have that here. The woman will presumably just make the same accusations to the NFL that she made in the civil complaint. What then? That's a tough spot to be in. Do you put him on the exempt list to "see how it plays out", which could take years unless there's a settlement? Or do they make their own credibility determination and decide whether they believe her or not?

[spleen1015]

It is punishment because he's not allowed to play.

[Lathum]

WTF is up with the camera angle they are using?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Lathum

WTF is up with the camera angle they are using?

Bad Weather. Only using two cameras right now.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Bad Weather. Only using two cameras right now.

aha. Was making dinner and didn't hear that

[bhlloy]

Why even bother allowing challenges on the spot of the ball if they aren't going to overturn that? Not sure if it's due to the lack of camera angles, but that wasn't even close to the spot they gave him.

[tarcone]

Where online can i watch this game

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Where online can i watch this game

NFL Mobile on your smartphone?

[bhlloy]

So after his comments last week and the game so far, anyone think Cam isn’t throwing to McCaffrey on purpose?

I mean I’m playing him in fantasy so I’m ecstatic, but still. The guy is the best pass catching back in the league and just running into space and Cam is forcing it downfield into coverage like it’s going out of style.

[EagleFan]

WTF play call was that? Game on the line with a huge QB and they go with a trick play needing a foot.

[bhlloy]

I can only assume Cam’s shoulder is so jacked he can’t take any hits (don’t think he’s run it once this season has he?) but if that’s the case, it’s time to play the backup anyway. He’s clearly terrible as a drop back passer and the line just isn’t set up to give him time to throw anyway.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I can only assume Cam’s shoulder is so jacked he can’t take any hits (don’t think he’s run it once this season has he?)

5 carries for -2 yards.

But he insists in the post-game that he doesn't know why they aren't calling his number.