WW XCIII - Mine Wars - Battle of Blair Mountain - SYMPATHIZERS WIN!!!

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Not for today, success was automatic and you didn't end up doing the work

Ah, so today's success was solely based on the success of the mission?

Interesting. So EF was right.

[Abe Sargent]

I will be running the night shortly

[Abe Sargent]

In 1897, with a cashless UMW facing a very low roster, the new president, Michael Ratchford, calls a strike for July 4, 1897. The miners across America came out and stayed out for 3 months. At the end, owners capitulated and the roster rolls swelled to 33,000 nationally and much credibility.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I think you're putting words in his mouth that he wouldn't agree with. Anyway, what benefits did we reap from the camps?

You might be right, my apologies, and apparently since the mission succeeded anyway, we gained nothing other than a new union camp.

It would seem to me then that the Missions can actually carry a lot more weight than we might think. We ought to dig into this idea and see see what sort of data we can mine out of it. We might find a diamond in the rough.

[Abe Sargent]

As you leave the town of Monongah behind, your resolve to fight the dictatorship of the companies grows. The company gave you an example of poor conditions better than any speech ever could. Coal companies in union states have better gear and would have been more able to handle a disaster like that in Monongah.

You leave District 41 and head south back into your lands. As you begin to arrive in the Kanawha Valley region, you notice that path is missing. Was he arrested? Was he killed? Was he kidnapped? Did he just abandon you? You do not know, but you have the feeling that you may never see him again.

Today you arrive in Drawdy Creek, a reek that forms Drawdy Creek Mountain that separate the two sides of Boone County. The incline is steep and it takes the train some time to climb it. They have to stop for more sand along the way to allow it to continue climbing.

Drawdy Creek is also striking, so you have decided to lend your support and make it a successful strike.

After you arrive, you realize that the companies knew you were coming and have increased their defenses against you. Someone must have informed them of your arrival and prepared for you! Only those of you in this group knew you were arriving today! Someone, perhaps multiple people, are spies for the company!

Because Drawdy Creek has been warned, today will be much more difficult that yesterday.

Tasks:

Patrol – 6
Food Distribution – 15
Organization – 8

Good luck miners!

[Abe Sargent]

Today there is a mission. Today's mission is simple.

Drawdy Creek contains an old railroad dept and stock yard used decades before. The area is notorious for having a lot of old and useful items from that area around them.

Mission is due by 3 pm.

Any player, whatever their allegiance, may go on this mission with a high probability that you will find an item of usefulness. It is not guaranteed, but many can really help your side.

As opposed to most missions, you will know the results of this one via pm after it is processed at 3.

[Abe Sargent]

In 1897, in a push to get District 17 mobilized, famous labor leaders such as Eugene V Debs, Mother Jones and Samuel Gompers arrive and began to make speeches, as did the best leaders from other unions such as United Brotherhood of Carpenters, Street Railway Employees, International machinists’ Union, and the Amalgamated Association of Iron and Steel Workers.

Governor Atkinson is sent a letter by the UMW to have some meetings and hash out some of the issues facing labor in the state and labor/management relations. He sends back a letter saying he doesn’t want to do it, and then beings to use federal injunctions to break up strikes.

[Lathum]

ok, Paths death is interesting.

Really solid vet who hasn't played much lately. That leads me to believe another vet took him out.

looking at the list of people who know how solid Path is I am drawn to

Lathum
Render
Barkeep
ChiefRum
Passacaglia
DL
Heinz
PB
NTNDeacon

I realize that is a large list.

Plus, my theory as to why it was a poor idea to reveal is being played out. IIRC Path DID NOT reveal.

[Chief Rum]

Hmm, today's going to be tough. I don't think we'll be able to afford to "go extra" on these tasks, so obviously that's a concern (and with one less villager, too).

I can at least take care of half of Patrolling. I said I would reveal it if it came up, and here it is. Patrolling is my skill, and I do it 3x as good as a normal person.

So I will put in for Patrolling, and get us halfway there at least.

WORK ON PATROLLING

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

ok, Paths death is interesting.

Really solid vet who hasn't played much lately. That leads me to believe another vet took him out.

looking at the list of people who know how solid Path is I am drawn to

Lathum
Render
Barkeep
ChiefRum
Passacaglia
DL
Heinz
PB
NTNDeacon

I realize that is a large list.

Plus, my theory as to why it was a poor idea to reveal is being played out. IIRC Path DID NOT reveal.

While I agree with your underlying theory (that a vet was involved in this), fact is, it only takes one, and the wolves can communicate privately (or actually don't recall reading that, but I assume, standard WW fare and all). And I would be pretty shocked in a game that has to have at least three wolves and probably more wouldn't have at least one on a list of nine people (almost half of the game roster).

In other words, this is something to keep in mind, but we're going to need a lot more (unfortunately).

[Danny]

Haven't really caught up much yet, but good result.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Lathum

ok, Paths death is interesting.

Really solid vet who hasn't played much lately. That leads me to believe another vet took him out.

looking at the list of people who know how solid Path is I am drawn to

Lathum
Render
Barkeep
ChiefRum
Passacaglia
DL
Heinz
PB
NTNDeacon

I realize that is a large list.

Plus, my theory as to why it was a poor idea to reveal is being played out. IIRC Path DID NOT reveal.

Haha. I'm not on your list!

[Abe Sargent]

I'll give you one more of these and then I'm off to bed until morning.


By 1898 coal owners in other states began to use West Virginia as their reason for not giving workers more. They claimed that the non-union WV was making coal cheaper, and they could not afford salary increases or more benefits when competing against them. Unionize WV they claimed.

[Lathum]

I guess I need to pony up

I am x3 on food distrinution

Work on food distribution

[Danny]

I just read the mission and daily goal. I have a possibility to throw out today. What if all 20 of us go on the mission? Yeah I know this screws us for the day in converting the camps, but just assuming everyone got an item (Abe only said most will) that would mean anywhere from 14-16 villagers with items and 3-5 wolves with items.

If it is decided this a bad idea, I will be working in food distribution since it is my specialty even though I do want an item!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

While I agree with your underlying theory (that a vet was involved in this), fact is, it only takes one, and the wolves can communicate privately (or actually don't recall reading that, but I assume, standard WW fare and all). And I would be pretty shocked in a game that has to have at least three wolves and probably more wouldn't have at least one on a list of nine people (almost half of the game roster).

In other words, this is something to keep in mind, but we're going to need a lot more (unfortunately).

yeah.

I'm drunk

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Lathum

ok, Paths death is interesting.

Really solid vet who hasn't played much lately. That leads me to believe another vet took him out.

looking at the list of people who know how solid Path is I am drawn to

Lathum
Render
Barkeep
ChiefRum
Passacaglia
DL
Heinz
PB
NTNDeacon

I realize that is a large list.

Plus, my theory as to why it was a poor idea to reveal is being played out. IIRC Path DID NOT reveal.

I've only been playing about a year on here, but I know Path can be a strong player. I think this list would be just as likely to include me as any of those here which means it probably could include others.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Danny

I've only been playing about a year on here, but I know Path can be a strong player. I think this list would be just as likely to include me as any of those here which means it probably could include others.

yeah

I'm drunk.

[Lathum]

dola- not a fan of all going on the mission. I have a feeling if we all abandon the effort to convert people to the union it will have bad effects

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Danny

I just read the mission and daily goal. I have a possibility to throw out today. What if all 20 of us go on the mission? Yeah I know this screws us for the day in converting the camps, but just assuming everyone got an item (Abe only said most will) that would mean anywhere from 14-16 villagers with items and 3-5 wolves with items.

If it is decided this a bad idea, I will be working in food distribution since it is my specialty even though I do want an item!

Interesting concept, and not one I am against if it's an idea that gains some momentum. I have already put in my work task, of course, but I think I read I can get out of that, if needed.

I guess people need to ask themselves if we all think today's camp is achievable, or if we're looking at a serious uphill battle? Yesterday, we needed 18 "credits" toward work. Today? 29. Ouch.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

dola- not a fan of all going on the mission. I have a feeling if we all abandon the effort to convert people to the union it will have bad effects

Also quite conceivable. I guess the question is if no one does work, is it worse than just not completing all the work? Or is it just either "the work is done" or "the work isn't done", and it doesn't matter if the units toward work are one short or 20 short.

[dubb93]

Well I don't appear to be any help on the work today other than 1 unit so I will wait to see what we decide. I think I'm leaning towards going on the mission.

[Poli]

GOING ON MISSION.

I think my searching ability means I'll come up with something useful.

God speed, path. I guess we can be taken out of this game after all.

[PurdueBrad]

I'll be selfish since my skills aren't useful today. If we decide my labor will help then I will switch.

go on mission

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Also quite conceivable. I guess the question is if no one does work, is it worse than just not completing all the work? Or is it just either "the work is done" or "the work isn't done", and it doesn't matter if the units toward work are one short or 20 short.

Abe, can we get an answer on CR's question? My hunch is that the 2nd one is true -- the rules say we must convert a certain number of camps in a certain number of days, so if we take the rules at their word, it seems like it wouldn't matter.

So I'm inclined to lean toward agreeing with Danny, but if we have the roles for it, I think this town CAN be converted. If we have two patrollers at x3 (CR plus one more), three food distributors at x3 and 6 at x1, and three organizers at x3, we're getting the job done with 14 out of 19 people, and the rest can be used as backup. This is a best-case scenario, of course -- so far, we only have one patroller, two food distributors, and no organizers (so I don't even know if it's x2 or x3). But hopefully we learn more as the morning progresses.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Plus, my theory as to why it was a poor idea to reveal is being played out. IIRC Path DID NOT reveal.

Your vet list seems like a good place to start. This, however, seemed much more telling to me. The wolves killed somebody that never revealed their job or their work hours, which made Path unpredictable. You may be right regarding reveals but I also don't think we could have coordinated work and won the mission (although I guess we didn't really need to do both) without them.

[Passacaglia]

Yikes, two mission posts as I was typing that. I'm heading to work, but I hope we're not deciding to punt on the camps this early in the day. And I'm really skeptical of people who choose to go on the mission, since it brings a benefit to those who go on it, regardless of allegiance.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Plus, my theory as to why it was a poor idea to reveal is being played out. IIRC Path DID NOT reveal.

path dying contradicts your theory. They attacked path despite his not revealing. This suggests clearly to me that they were focused on other factors not the reveals.

[Poli]

PB, are you a searcher type?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Can you elaborate on that a little?

Sure. The automatic win here was nice, but hardly necessary considering the work we've done. We have no sense of how often mining accidents will come up, nor what the reward will be for winning those missions. We do know what the reward will be for winning the camps, that is winning the game. I see no particular reason to think that winning future missions will be essential to that goal if we organize well.

I am pretty disappointed to see the first two people posting both choosing to take the selfish route. I will likely be establishing my work early.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by Poli

PB, are you a searcher type?

No, I am an orator.

[Barkeep49]

With 29 units, it seems like we're going to have to walk a really fine line to get everything done. Perhaps I've been wrong yet again and succeeding at the mission is essential as we'll perhaps need items we find?

Since food distribution is the largest, and we only have 1 who has claimed that skill, I believe, I'm going to help out there.

Work on food distribution

[claphamsa]

I have nothing to say, and this bothers me

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

ok, Paths death is interesting.

Really solid vet who hasn't played much lately. That leads me to believe another vet took him out.

looking at the list of people who know how solid Path is I am drawn to

Lathum
Render
Barkeep
ChiefRum
Passacaglia
DL
Heinz
PB
NTNDeacon

I realize that is a large list.

Plus, my theory as to why it was a poor idea to reveal is being played out. IIRC Path DID NOT reveal.

did you refer to me as DL instead of DT or am I just not on your list cuz you hate me?

[DaddyTorgo]

i'd like to go on the mission - my oratory skills aren't useful and there's the possibility i can find something very helpful to us on the mission

[USFLTecmo]

WORK ON PATROLLING

I'm x3 with it, and CR claims to be. If we fail without adding any more workers to this, I know who I'm pointing my finger at, and everyone else will have a 50/50 chance at hitting the sympathizer. I suppose if there's someone else that's x3 Patrol, they'd help guarantee the task is done, but otherwise, I can't see the benefits of three more of us on this.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Abe, can we get an answer on CR's question? My hunch is that the 2nd one is true -- the rules say we must convert a certain number of camps in a certain number of days, so if we take the rules at their word, it seems like it wouldn't matter.

So I'm inclined to lean toward agreeing with Danny, but if we have the roles for it, I think this town CAN be converted. If we have two patrollers at x3 (CR plus one more), three food distributors at x3 and 6 at x1, and three organizers at x3, we're getting the job done with 14 out of 19 people, and the rest can be used as backup. This is a best-case scenario, of course -- so far, we only have one patroller, two food distributors, and no organizers (so I don't even know if it's x2 or x3). But hopefully we learn more as the morning progresses.

No, you cannot get an answer.

[Abe Sargent]

On Jan 26, 1898, a meeting of coal owners in other states and union people was called to answer the WV problem and get the miners there unionized. In order to encourage the miners to unionize WV, and also because production was low, the coal companies in other states agreed to the 8 hour work day for UMW miners . In WV, they still had a 10 hour one.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

No, you cannot get an answer.

Seriously? This seems pretty important for us to know, since it's one of the ways we win the game.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Seriously? This seems pretty important for us to know, since it's one of the ways we win the game.

x2

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Sure. The automatic win here was nice, but hardly necessary considering the work we've done. We have no sense of how often mining accidents will come up, nor what the reward will be for winning those missions. We do know what the reward will be for winning the camps, that is winning the game. I see no particular reason to think that winning future missions will be essential to that goal if we organize well.

I am pretty disappointed to see the first two people posting both choosing to take the selfish route. I will likely be establishing my work early.

That makes sense. I thought you were trying to attribute our success in the evening to the camps, when the way I read this, the reward laid out (gaining an ally) was due to winning the mission, not the camps. But it seems like we're on the same page, and others who weren't have now been corrected.

Big agree about people taking the selfish route. I guess the two people who have done it are searchers, so they probably see their skill as useful on it, but they REALLY have to realize how it looks, when a lot of work is required to get the camps today, and they could potentially be gaining an advantage when we're still not sure if we can trust them.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

With 29 units, it seems like we're going to have to walk a really fine line to get everything done. Perhaps I've been wrong yet again and succeeding at the mission is essential as we'll perhaps need items we find?

Since food distribution is the largest, and we only have 1 who has claimed that skill, I believe, I'm going to help out there.

Work on food distribution

I think this is a valid work action for you still, but I have both EagleFan and Danny as good food distributors.

[Passacaglia]

Now that I'm looking at my list, PB is Oratory, not Searching. That makes him look fishier to me.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Seriously? This seems pretty important for us to know, since it's one of the ways we win the game.

The rules say that labor has to win 8 camps in order to win. You also win if you take out all of the sympathizers. You'll also win if you trigger the game-winning event and win it, instead of the sympathizers. Sympathizers win after a certain number of days passes and the camps are unconverted. Sympathizer when when they get a 1:1 ratio with Labor. And if they win the major game ending event, they win the game.

That's all I can tell you.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I think this is a valid work action for you still, but I have both EagleFan and Danny as good food distributors.

Thanks for the correction. I hadn't marked EF on my list of claimed skills. I still think it makes sense, given the total needed, for me to work on it though (as I think you do).

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

The rules say that labor has to win 8 camps in order to win. You also win if you take out all of the sympathizers. You'll also win if you trigger the game-winning event and win it, instead of the sympathizers. Sympathizers win after a certain number of days passes and the camps are unconverted. Sympathizer when when they get a 1:1 ratio with Labor. And if they win the major game ending event, they win the game.

That's all I can tell you.

fair enough

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Now that I'm looking at my list, PB is Oratory, not Searching. That makes him look fishier to me.

I agree. Poli to a certain extent is explained. PB? Not as much.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'd like to go on the mission, because if i find something in particular it will help us.

on the other hand - things can be passed with impunity, so i am okay with not going on the mission - but i wonder if the people that do, when they come back, if they found something, would be willing to pass it around to others if it's not useful to them? that way maybe we could get the potential benefits of more of us going without actually going...

[Autumn]

I'm not sure that my specialty matters, but I think it may be more useful in patrolling than the others. There's a possibility that it will give me a 2x edge. So, I will do that.

I'm very suspicious of anyone who's signed up for the mission at this point. We have no idea if we can manage to squeak out these camp jobs at this point. That smells of Sympathizers eager to get their hands on something.

WORK ON PATROLLING

[Autumn]

dola

To further explain, so far unless more specializations are revealed we need 21 people to complete our three jobs. Hopefully we'll see some more specialists, but until we do we can't afford anyone to go on the mission.