Yay, It's the 2010 NBA Playoffs thread!

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by McSweeny

I think I need to see my doctor about this erection...

Holy shit that was fun!

better off seeing your wife or gf for this problem

[Neon_Chaos]

Game 6 (and possibly Game 7) will be put up or shut up time for LeBron. If he wants to win, he has to want it more than anyone on the court.

Sure, his supporting cast isn't all-world, and they really haven't shown up in these playoffs, but they are better than most. Considering he is the most gifted athlete in the NBA, he should be able to carry this team to a title.

LeBron should be willing to be the reason why his team loses, as much as why his team wins.

The question is, deep down inside, does he really want that burden?

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I think one other thing with the Cavs-Celts and people saying they are amore talented bunch. I could agree they are younger than the Celts and thus have more physical ability.

Are they really younger ? Jamison is 33, Shaq is 38, Parker is 34, Z is 34.
So 3 of the 5 starters are older than Boston´s starters other than Rondo/Perkins. Williams sure as heck isn´t having more physichal ability than Rondo.

[RainMaker]

Send LeBron to Chicago

[Neuqua]

Haha, that's awesome.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Two things.

1) The Spurs got swept out of their series before you ever posted this.

2) Did you mean Lakers/Suns, or was that more in the vein of "whoever the Lakers play in the conference finals is going to beat them"?

I meant Lakers/Suns. I'm tired.

The more I think about last night, the more I'm stunned. Let me start off by saying I don't care about the 3-14. You have off days. Kobe has went 9-30 in plenty of big games. What stunned me was the attitude, effort and fire. There was none. And even the comments after the game.

“I spoil a lot of people with my play. When you have three bad games in seven years, it’s easy to point them out.”

Are you kidding me? I mean, seriously, are you kidding me? Look Bron, you chose to leave the team hanging in FA for the last year plus. (I'm not saying that's a bad choice, only saying you did it) Cavs fans may be spoiled to have you but they are certainly not spoiled in playoff successes. They are worried you are going to bolt and that this is their one big shining chance for a title. And they watch their team come out in a critical game and tank it. They watch YOU play more like Aaron Afflalo then a superstar.

I don't want you yapping about your three bad games in seven years. (news flash to you, you've had more than that) I want you getting pissed off for allowing that to happen on your watch, I want you to apologize to the fans for a lackluster effort, I want you to say that the team owes better than that for the city of Cleveland and his loyal fans.

Instead, he's still busy talking about how wonderful he is. If the Cavs don't win this series, that performance will go on the Mount Rushmore of stars tanking in big games. He should be ashamed of himself.

[Groundhog]

OK, another Cav fan weighing in here.

LeBron is the most gifted player in the NBA. Physically he's one of the most gifted guys in any sport. But his personality leaves an awful lot to desire, and he has always rubbed me the wrong way, even as a big Cavs fan. I have no problems with guys being over-confident and cocky because that's what drives these guys and makes them great, but you had better be able to back that attitude up on the court and LeBron, for all his great moments, falters too many times when it counts most.

I gave him a free pass after the Spurs-Cavs series because, even though he played like a complete dog (so did the rest of the team, but him in particular), he was young. But for him to shoot just 0-5 in the first half of the biggest game of the season, well, there's no excuse for that. It reminded me of Kobe giving up on the Lakers in the past, which is the main reason why I just flat-out don't like him as a player.

It's hard to idolize a guy who was gifted with all the natural ability in the world yet isn't always motivated enough to use it. That's why some of my favourite former Cavaliers have been guys like Andre Miller and Brevin Knight, guys who work hard and played well for us despite their short-comings. I guess it's hard to fault LeBron for not staying grounded given the kind of attention he's had since he was a teenager. But hey, it is what it is.

There is a part of me that hopes LeBron leaves the Cavs to be completely honest, and hopefully Brown follows suit. We may not be making it to the conference finals any time soon if that happens, but I might enjoy being a fan more without having to constantly read LeBron quotes that make me shake my head in disgust.

[RainMaker]

LeBron’s moment of truth awaits - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

[Groundhog]

"James invites these storylines into the gymnasium, this drama, and leaves everyone else to live with the consequences. Owner Dan Gilbert has fostered a culture of permissiveness with James that hasn’t served him or the franchise."

From the above article. This is probably the thing more than anything else that has bugged me about LeBron. He loves the drama, and loves to stir shit with the media, wearing Yankees caps and all the rest of it, knowing what people's reactions will be.

[stevew]

I was at a game about 2 years ago. He got in a crazy collision with someone on the Mavericks. D-bag lies on the floor for like 2 minutes. Complete silence in the arena. Then he gets up like nothing was wrong.

And all the stories about Big Ben....There are countless stories like that about LeBron. Classic stuff like no tips on big checks. Telling 10 year old kids who want an autograph to fuck off. Stuff like that.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by stevew

I was at a game about 2 years ago. He got in a crazy collision with someone on the Mavericks. D-bag lies on the floor for like 2 minutes. Complete silence in the arena. Then he gets up like nothing was wrong.

And all the stories about Big Ben....There are countless stories like that about LeBron. Classic stuff like no tips on big checks. Telling 10 year old kids who want an autograph to fuck off. Stuff like that.

really? i guess that doesn't surprise me, but that's too bad to hear. i've never really liked the guy, but that at least makes me feel vindicated for actively rooting for him to fail.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

really? i guess that doesn't surprise me, but that's too bad to hear. i've never really liked the guy, but that at least makes me feel vindicated for actively rooting for him to fail.

For the past 2+ years it's been getting increasingly harder to root for him to succeed.

[stevew]

Basically LeBron's mother was an alcoholic, drug abuser and probably a hooker. She has (apparently) really had a big impact on the way he treats other people.

[jbergey22]

For those that thought Lebron might dethrone MJ as the best player in NBA history will have to think long and hard after that game 5 performance. At times it looks like MJ had more determination and heart in his pinky than LBJ does in his entire body.

How can a team with championship aspirations perform like that in that big of a game? They have a lot of work to do to prove people wrong right now.

If LBJ doesnt come out and perform like a superstar tomorrow night he is going to lose a lot of fans I would speculate. And not just Cleveland fans.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

It reminded me of Kobe giving up on the Lakers in the past, which is the main reason why I just flat-out don't like him as a player.

I know Kobe did something along these lines in a regular season game to try and prove a point, but I've watched virtually every playoff game in Kobe's career and he's never had anything but fire in the playoffs.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Danny

I know Kobe did something along these lines in a regular season game to try and prove a point, but I've watched virtually every playoff game in Kobe's career and he's never had anything but fire in the playoffs.

He's laid several eggs in the Playoffs before, but not with the same disinterest as LeBron has shown in Game 5.

Of course, LeBron could come out guns-a-blazing in Game 6, and we all forget about the Game 5 LeBacle.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Danny

I know Kobe did something along these lines in a regular season game to try and prove a point, but I've watched virtually every playoff game in Kobe's career and he's never had anything but fire in the playoffs.

actually Kobe did that in a Playoff game (game 7 2006 ?) against the Suns if i´m not horribly mistaken, passing up shots in the 2nd half. Some say to get his teammates to step up, others say to simply expose his teammates so that he gets better ones next year figuring he wouldn´t go anywhere that year regardless if they beat the suns or not.

Overall i kind of agree with James comment : Dude really has an otherworldly ratio of amazing games/bad games, big games included.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

He's laid several eggs in the Playoffs before, but not with the same disinterest as LeBron has shown in Game 5.

Of course, LeBron could come out guns-a-blazing in Game 6, and we all forget about the Game 5 LeBacle.

He's had crappy games, but seems to always have a fire. I thought the thing with the Kobe that Whomario mentioned was a regular season game, but it might have been during the 2 years crapfest the lakers had right after Shaq left, I've mostly intentionally forgotten those years.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Danny

He's had crappy games, but seems to always have a fire. I thought the thing with the Kobe that Whomario mentioned was a regular season game, but it might have been during the 2 years crapfest the lakers had right after Shaq left, I've mostly intentionally forgotten those years.

wouldn´t blame you for that

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Really looking forward to seeing how LBJ comes out tonight.

[Young Drachma]

2010 NBA playoffs: It's way too early to write off LeBron James - ESPN

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by stevew

Basically LeBron's mother was an alcoholic, drug abuser and probably a hooker. She has (apparently) really had a big impact on the way he treats other people.

I guess someone in the Cavs front office should have asked him about that before they drafted him.

[Neon_Chaos]

Bill Simmons: LeBron's nightmare, the Game 5 running diary - ESPN

[TroyF]

Kobe tanked in game 7 against the Suns. It was every bit as bad as Bron, especially in the fact that Kobe wasn't having an off shooting night. He just gave up.

We may have seen Magic choke on occasion and Bird and MJ fail. But we never watched them fail to give effort. I like how everyone is saying this is a defining game for Lebron tonight. No, it isn't. These are a defining TWO games for Lebron. If the Cavs lose this series, and people are going to point to game 5. (as they should)

He could win 20 titles as far as I'm concerned, I will not cheer for this guy to win again.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Kobe tanked in game 7 against the Suns. It was every bit as bad as Bron, especially in the fact that Kobe wasn't having an off shooting night. He just gave up.

We may have seen Magic choke on occasion and Bird and MJ fail. But we never watched them fail to give effort. I like how everyone is saying this is a defining game for Lebron tonight. No, it isn't. These are a defining TWO games for Lebron. If the Cavs lose this series, and people are going to point to game 5. (as they should)

He could win 20 titles as far as I'm concerned, I will not cheer for this guy to win again.

Kobe did indeed tank that game.

But then again, if your PF was Kwame Brown, wouldn't you?

[MrBug708]

He didn't tank it, he tried to get everyone involved because he had like 25 points in the first half and they were still losing. He knew that his teammates had to score otherwise the team was sunk. Kobe stopped shooting, but iirc, he was getting blasted in the media for being a ball hog after dropping like 45 in game 6. So he deferred and he's accused of tanking. Awesome.

[heybrad]

In Phil's book (in which he blasted Kobe multiple times), he said he specifically told Kobe to do whatever he could to get everyone else involved. Phil then went on to say that was the wrong decision because Kobe tried to get the likes of Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Brian Cook and Luke Walton involved. It went nowhere. Yes, Kobe was super pissed and had a hissy fit, but according to Phil he was doing what he was told to do.

[TroyF]

I've read the snippet of Phil's book heybrad. I also recal the exact issues of his being accused of being selfish mrbug. . . but the simple reality is that Kobe took THREE SHOTS FOR THE ENTIRE SECOND HALF.

You can get teammates involved and go with your coaches wishes and actually shoot the basketball and create offense for yourself. It is allowed. Beyond that, if you are supposed to create, it might be a good idea to do it. Lakers not named Kobe made 24 shots that night. . . Kobe played 43 minutes and had one assist. Kobe also didn't make an effort to even try on defense that game. If you ever get a chance to see the game again, watch his effort. Raja Bell and Barbosa combined to shoot 15-22 from the SG slot. (and again, watch the game, Kobe was guarding those players)

He did tank it guys. He's redeemed himself by his effort the last couple of years. (having Pau sure does help in that regard, but Kobe has been a better player and seems to be a slightly better teammate now than he was then) It was a putrid effort and it was inexcusable.

I think the big difference in that game vs. the Bron game a couple of night ago was the fact the Lakers were not considered contenders that year. They fought to get the 7th seed. They weren't even expected to get out of round one and if they would have I didn't see them winning one more series, let alone two. It doesn't excuse Kobe's tanking (and I'll believe he tanked til I die, I watched the game), but at least he wasn't playing on the #1 seed in front of his own fans in the biggest game of the year when he gave up.

[MrBug708]

What was his motivation for tanking then? Not wanting to go on to the next round? Looking to switch teams? Hatred of his teammates?

[heybrad]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

What was his motivation for tanking then? Not wanting to go on to the next round? Looking to switch teams? Hatred of his teammates?

Not hatred, but "Get me a better supporting cast."

Kobe seems to be a guy who takes things to extremes so I get the perception that he crapped out on that game, but there is at the very least somewhat of an explanation. I don't think anybody questions Kobe's desire to win titles. I'm still not getting the explanation for LeBron in this case. Also, if nothing else, doesn't this show another reason that Mike Brown is a horrific head coach? I haven't seen or heard a peep out of him either calling out or backing up his star player.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

What was his motivation for tanking then? Not wanting to go on to the next round? Looking to switch teams? Hatred of his teammates?

basically, he was saying 'Hey, Dr. Buss, if you keep sticking me with Smush Parker, Brian Cook, Kwame Brown and Luke Walton - expect to see me mail it in a lot more next season."

[molson]

So how would Kobe do with LeBron's supporting cast? (ignoring any personal Shaq-Kobe dynamic)?

It's not 1990 anymore, an elite player doesn't need a great supporting cast to win a title. Elite players tend to elevate the average/below-average players around him, which makes us think they're better than they really are.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by heybrad

Not hatred, but "Get me a better supporting cast."

Kobe seems to be a guy who takes things to extremes so I get the perception that he crapped out on that game, but there is at the very least somewhat of an explanation. I don't think anybody questions Kobe's desire to win titles. I'm still not getting the explanation for LeBron in this case. Also, if nothing else, doesn't this show another reason that Mike Brown is a horrific head coach? I haven't seen or heard a peep out of him either calling out or backing up his star player.

You got it. I think a better question to ask how good Kobe is and his mentality that night.

Question 1: If Kobe was trying to win badly, did he honestly believe taking 3 shots in a half would achieve that goal? With that supporting cast? With the team trailing to start the second half? With the Suns making a huge run to start the half? Sorry, it doesn't add up.

Question 2: If he's putting forth effort on the defensive end, could Barbosa and Raja Bell have a 15-22 game on him? Maybe in a once in a lifetime effort. . . but if you watch the game, they were getting layups and wide open shots. Again, if Kobe was trying to win, do you think Raja Bell gets more than one fluke layup in a game against him? You think he allows Barbosa to run over the team?

For the record, I think Kobe is one of the most talented players in the history of the game. I think he's had plenty of off nights. And I also think on those off nights he played his ass off. On that night in 2006? He tanked it. He flat out tanked it.

Molson,

How would current Kobe do with Bron's cast? Probably not well. I've said it a ton in this thread, but if Bron isn't superhuman, Cleveland doesn't have a chance. I did not think they'd beat Orlando heading into the Celtics series. Kobe in his current form can't play superman every single night.

That said, this Cleveland team is a hell of a lot more talented than that Lakers team Kobe tanked on. Moe Williams, Old Shaq, Jamison, Parker, Varajo are quite a bit better than Smush, Walton, Kwame and Brian Cook.

[MrBug708]

They did have Odom on that team as well, but your point is still valid on the talent levels.

And they played in the West

[TroyF]

Forgot Odom was on that team. Still, Bron has a little more to work with.

It's funny to see the media swinging different ways. Some are saying the performance was the end of the line for Bron and he'll never be a winner. Others say he's terrific and one bad performance doesn't take away from all the other great games.

Like with everything, both sides have a point. It is one game. He could be hurt. He can and probably will bounce back from this, maybe even as quickly as tonight.

But it also was an inexcusable effort.His comments after the game were a joke. If the Cavs don't win this series, it will be a defining moment for Lebron. Maybe not THE defining moment of his career, but certainly one which will shape his overall legacy.

These next two games really determine the last paragraph. The Cavs pull through, people will forget about game 5.

[Big Fo]

I can't remember the last time I was looking forward to a second round NBA playoff game not involving my own team as much as Cleveland @ Boston tonight.

[RainMaker]

I'm looking forward to tonight too. Although I think Lebron tears it up and they beat Boston in a close game. Hope I'm wrong.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

I can't remember the last time I was looking forward to a second round NBA playoff game not involving my own team as much as Cleveland @ Boston tonight.

me too, sitting here at nearly 2 am right now. Good thing i got the day off tomorrow, the bad thing is that i´m back home visiting for a long weekend and the internet connection is shaky at times ...

Will be interesting how Cleveland and James go about this, continue like it´s business as usual, make a few small tweaks or make bigger ones ? Like James playing the 4 or guarding Rondo or sth similarly unusual.

He definitely needs to use his abilities on every possession, the way Rondo did in game 4. There is no real reason he shouldn´t get 10 rebounds every time he steps on the court for instance, especially when the Cavs struggle on the boards.
When he kicks the ball out to an open shooter he shouldn´t retreat back to the 3 point line but look for the offensive board.

[whomario]

so they put Shaq on Garnett ? I call a brain freeze on their Coach here early ... Just what they need, more mismatches on defense, yay ...

very high paced game early

why the hell do they play 4 out with Shaq in the Post ? Hello, this isn´t 2010, not 2001 ... No wonder why they struggle to get 2nd shots.

As the Cavs i´d really consider playing Williams, Jamison, James, Varejao, Shaq and either James really trying to guard Rondo (or maybe Allen) or go small with Varejao at the 5.
Either way, Parker isn´t helping you out there right now. Not because what he does but because it just doesn´t give you an advantage. Again, he´d be much more valuable against the Magic.

Seriously, the whole team is designed to match the magic and the celtics are calling their bluff in a way ...

[whomario]

unbelievably bad defense by the Cavs, with Shaq being caught in no mans land trying to guard Garnett and no one rotating to cover for that.

And why is Lebron guarding Tony Allen ?

Good to see Sheed staying true to himself with an early terrible shot ...

[Groundhog]

I wish Shaq would sprain his ankle or something so Varejao and Hickson get more burn.

[Groundhog]

It's a shame LeBron spoils us so much. Makes it much harder to appreciate his 2-7 shooting to start the game.

[Groundhog]

3 turnovers now. C'mon King, keep leading our guys all the way to the offseason!

[whomario]

wow, the Celtics are fun to watch right now

[larrymcg421]

Not happy about the foul trouble for Pierce and Rondo.

[Neon_Chaos]

LeBron needs to attack. Enough with this deferring to teammates shit.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

LeBron needs to attack. Enough with this deferring to teammates shit.

Agreed. I want to see him take this game over.

[Neon_Chaos]

Boston fans chanting "New York Knicks" whenever James shoots freethrows.

Bill Simmons ftw: http://twitter.com/celticschants

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Boston fans chanting "New York Knicks" whenever James shoots freethrows.

Bill Simmons ftw: http://twitter.com/celticschants

Seems a little short-sighted to cheer for LeBron to sign for a team in your division...

[Groundhog]

Ah well, maybe LeBron decided to wait until the 4th Q to show off his brilliance.