Jerry Sandusky thread

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Logan

You can have your balanced viewpoint. I'll have mine. A person's character is built on tough moments. Paterno failed miserably when he had a very simple one.

+10000000

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

You are so very very wrong here I don't even know what the fuck to say. You must have money on the game or something to even believe for a fucking minute that Paterno coaching another PSU game would in any way be a good idea.

I don't either. Anyone who thinks the man should even contemplate continuing on being involved in the university, let alone coaching a fucking football game, is seriously screwed up.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by molson

Ya, we're pretty forgiving. Roman Polanski has a ton of high-profile defenders and he drugged an underage girl and anally raped her.

Maybe something about the comparative reactions to Polanski/Sandusky reflects deep-seated perceptions of victims' genders that need further scrutiny?

BTW, why would the trustees fire JoePa before firing the AD, who was one step further up the chain AND more responsible for Sandusky, since Sandusky was no longer a part of JoePa's staff and Sandusky was hanging around as some kind of athletics emeritus?

[molson]

Originally Posted by britrock88

Maybe something about the comparative reactions to Polanski/Sandusky reflects deep-seated perceptions of victims' genders that need further scrutiny?

True, having sex with 13-year old boys is still considered "worse" than having sex with 13-year old girls. (I'm not saying we should ease up on the boy rapists, more that we should be harsher on the girl rapists).

[SportsDino]

I had the same violently disgusted reaction when I first read the Polanski story... I hope they put his head on a pike. I've never watched his movies (before, when I caught a glimpse of fragments while flipping channels I was always bored to death and after I heard about his background I actively avoid his shit whenever his name pops up).

Gender should have nothing to do with it, and to me it doesn't. Maybe it is because I see kids first as vulnerable and not as girls being sex objects, so the thought of them being attacked is equally sickening. A little girl and a little boy are both not able to really fight back in these situations, I don't see why any could be considered any less heinous.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by SportsDino

Gender should have nothing to do with it, and to me it doesn't. Maybe it is because I see kids first as vulnerable and not as girls being sex objects, so the thought of them being attacked is equally sickening. A little girl and a little boy are both not able to really fight back in these situations, I don't see why any could be considered any less heinous.

This.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I'm just saying that the board took the easy way out by firing Paterno without allowing him the opportunity to speak on the matter.

They want to try and wash their hands of everything? Forfeit the rest of the season. Why won't they do it? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The same reason these same guys would have done whatever they could have a month ago to hush it up.

Paterno was wrong. EVERYBODY WAS. I haven't heard about anybody else involved going above and beyond the call of duty to "do what's right." So Paterno is just as guilty or nearly as guilty as Sandusky? So is everybody that ever heard a whisper of it.

I don't see anybody who wants to rant about it on ESPN buying rope & heading to Pennsylvania...

[Scoobz0202]

Jesus. Those students at Penn State. You fucking idiots.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by stevew

They should remove victories this season(and the record)

Why? The players weren't involved in anything.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

I'm just saying that the board took the easy way out by firing Paterno without allowing him the opportunity to speak on the matter.

They want to try and wash their hands of everything? Forfeit the rest of the season. Why won't they do it? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The same reason these same guys would have done whatever they could have a month ago to hush it up.

Paterno was wrong. EVERYBODY WAS. I haven't heard about anybody else involved going above and beyond the call of duty to "do what's right." So Paterno is just as guilty or nearly as guilty as Sandusky? So is everybody that ever heard a whisper of it.

I don't see anybody who wants to rant about it on ESPN buying rope & heading to Pennsylvania...

See I just don't get where you are coming from. Why would they forfeit the rest of the season? This football season has nothing to do with a 13 year cover up of child rape that the head coach and numerous others knew about. Ultimately, with the position that Paterno was in at PSU, he was responsible for following up with this. Instead, he looked out for the university and for his fucked up demented friend instead.

Paterno dug his grave, now he can sleep in it.

[Galaxy]

Flipping over TV vans, breaking car windows, pepper spray, throwing bottles and rocks? Stay classy Penn State.

[Toddzilla]

fivethirtyeight Nate Silver:
If Penn State sinks any lower it might get invited to the Big East.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

Jesus. Those students at Penn State. You fucking idiots.

+100000000

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

He had 10 years to speak out on the matter. He can go Sandusky himself.

This

[Rizon]

Seeing some of the reactions of Penn State fans, talking about how great Paterno was and how he did nothing wrong ... makes me sick to my stomach. What is wrong with those people ...

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

He had 10 years to speak out on the matter. He can go Sandusky himself.

Maybe it is just me, but if he was just told Sandusky was doing inappropriate things then I think he is in the clear. Who decides what is inappropriate, is taking a shower at the same time as an 10 year-old inappropriate? Unless he was given details, he really can just pass it on to his supervisors to have it investigated. As for following up maybe he just never thought of it when around his supervisors. I'm not positive, but I'd venture to guess he possibly never thought of the situation when he was around his supervisors to ask. I realize there was suspicion before, but if there was real smoke I'd operate under the assumption it possibly wasn't true or blown out of proportion. I do think people are getting really overzealous in their outrage when we don't have all the information.

On another note I hope PSU gave him his full salary for the remainder of the contract as he should be entitled to receive since he did all he was required to do. I really think Paterno would have done more if he really understood what happened, I can't see him sweeping that under the rug as he had nothing to lose by bringing it to authorities, but everything to lose by doing as he did.

[Scoobz0202]

Cult like mentality

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Maybe it is just me, but if he was just told Sandusky was doing inappropriate things then I think he is in the clear. Who decides what is inappropriate, is taking a shower at the same time as an 10 year-old inappropriate? Unless he was given details, he really can just pass it on to his supervisors to have it investigated. As for following up maybe he just never thought of it when around his supervisors. I'm not positive, but I'd venture to guess he possibly never thought of the situation when he was around his supervisors to ask. I realize there was suspicion before, but if there was real smoke I'd operate under the assumption it possibly wasn't true or blown out of proportion. I do think people are getting really overzealous in their outrage when we don't have all the information.

On another note I hope PSU gave him his full salary for the remainder of the contract as he should be entitled to receive since he did all he was required to do. I really think Paterno would have done more if he really understood what happened, I can't see him sweeping that under the rug as he had nothing to lose by bringing it to authorities, but everything to lose by doing as he did.

Some people really don't get it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I do think people are getting really overzealous in their outrage when we don't have all the information.

Yep.

On another note I hope PSU gave him his full salary for the remainder of the contract as he should be entitled to receive since he did all he was required to do.

Unless he was dumb enough to agree to something else, you're spot on here too.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Some people really don't get it.

Some people appear to have forgotten how things looked at Duke not all that long ago.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Some people really don't get it.

Get what? Do you know exactly what was said to him or what he did? Honestly something inappropriate is to vague. If someone that worked for me came and said that to me I'd just pass it on and be done with it. If it was really serious someone would either tell me exactly what happened or go to the police.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Some people appear to have forgotten how things looked at Duke not all that long ago.

I remember EXACTLY how things looked at Duke. I remember it didn't include a coach raping a 10-year old in the shower. Other than that, not much else really pertains.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Some people appear to have forgotten how things looked at Duke not all that long ago.

Comparing 10 year old boys being anally raped is a bit different than a hooker making shit up. But you already knew this because you saw it mentioned earlier in the thread right?

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I remember EXACTLY how things looked at Duke. I remember it didn't include a coach raping a 10-year old in the shower. Other than that, not much else really pertains.

Other than people taking a story with only one side, the prosecutions side, and running with it as gospel. Sandusky in almost all certainty did horrible stuff, but that doesn't mean Paterno is bad. We know very little about what Paterno knew or his thoughts on hearing what he heard.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Get what? Do you know exactly what was said to him or what he did? Honestly something inappropriate is to vague. If someone that worked for me came and said that to me I'd just pass it on and be done with it. If it was really serious someone would either tell me exactly what happened or go to the police.

You clearly haven't read the Grand Jury Testimonial. I have.
You also clearly don't have children. I do.

Go away.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Comparing 10 year old boys being anally raped is a bit different than a hooker making shit up. But you already knew this because you saw it mentioned earlier in the thread right?

This reminds me of something I got really curious about on my drive home listening to the press conference stating he was fired. I wonder how many "victims" will come out now to try and make money off of this. Not saying it is very many, but I could see a person or two saying they were abused to try and get some money as it will be nearly impossible to prove one way or another in many cases.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Go away.

[Rizon]

Penn St Crazies 1
WTAJ-TV news van 0

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Comparing 10 year old boys being anally raped is a bit different than a hooker making shit up. But you already knew this because you saw it mentioned earlier in the thread right?

So far, I haven't seen any indication of proof that even matches the Duke allegations ... and I remember how that turned out.

For all I know the assistant was the sickest perv imaginable, but I've not come across anything so far that leads me to think that Paterno believed that even for a half-second. Have I missed some smoking gun somewhere? An email (or a letter written with a quill & ink since this is Paterno) where he says something about keeping things quiet? Some witness who claims "Joe told me to keep quiet"? Anything at all that indicates he made any attempt to cover up anything?

Meanwhile, I see tons of feigned outrage & attacks on various and sundries institutions by actors whose motives seem perhaps less than purely selfless. Funny, I recall the same thing in the Duke case.

The parallels are incredibly striking to me, have been all day.

edit to add: And I've never even liked Paterno, bordered on outright disliking the guy for years. Not as though I'm inclined toward giving him any excess benefit of the doubt here.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I wonder how many "victims" will come out now to try and make money off of this.

I'd put the over/under at 6.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

See I just don't get where you are coming from. Why would they forfeit the rest of the season? This football season has nothing to do with a 13 year cover up of child rape that the head coach and numerous others knew about. Ultimately, with the position that Paterno was in at PSU, he was responsible for following up with this. Instead, he looked out for the university and for his fucked up demented friend instead.

Paterno dug his grave, now he can sleep in it.

Ok, so on Saturday Penn State can take the field, have the band play, have the mascot run around & everybody can act like everything is all ok because they threw Joe Paterno out on his ass. You remember Paterno, right? He was the coach who personally condoned the rape of children!

It's funny that everybody that seems to have any opinion is 100% against Paterno. Yet when you look at the ESPN poll only 54% (currently) say he should have been fired.

Nebraska at Penn State just became more of a circus than it would have been with Paterno coaching. I feel bad for everybody who has to take that field & represent Penn State University.

All around it's just a sick & sad story.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Logan

Your first impression is already misguided. "Doing something funny with a kid in the locker room" could be Sandusky doing his best Chris Rock impression. By Paterno's own words, he was told of "something inappropriate" happening "in the shower". He needs to be separated from PSU because even if you believe that he did not receive all the facts, despite the GA insisting he gave them (and the grand jury found all of his testimony to be very credible), it is not appropriate for the leader of a football program, and the de-facto leader of the university, to hear that explanation and not follow up any further, and allow the potential offender to hang around his football program up until last week.

And if for some reason Paterno thought the GA was full of shit and lied about what he said about his longtime friend, why not only keep him on staff, but continue to promote him?

At this point, it doesn't seem like Paterno has any potential criminal problems. But I stress, at this point.

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

You clearly haven't read the Grand Jury Testimonial. I have.
You also clearly don't have children. I do.

Go away.

You are right, I have not read the testimonial, I've been too busy, but When I see that he was only told by the GA saw disturbing and inappropriate things in the shower I tend to give leniency until I know more info. Who decides what that stuff is? We can hold a poll on what people consider disturbing and inappropriate and would have huge degrees of variance. Does it say the GA told him he saw Sandusky having anal sex with a 10 yearold? As stated if it was that I would expect the person report the indecent to the police or tell me that, not sugar coat something and make it sound less important. Despite what you may think he is not responsible for launching an investigation against a person that no longer works for him. As for the children, I do, a boy, and I still think, with the information that has come out, he has done what he had to do.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

Ok, so on Saturday Penn State can take the field, have the band play, have the mascot run around & everybody can act like everything is all ok because they threw Joe Paterno out on his ass. You remember Paterno, right? He was the coach who personally condoned the rape of children!

Can you show me a quote that says he was told Sandusky was raping children? I don't see how people can see disturbing and inappropriate and think rape. Those two words can mean lots of things, none of which are as serious as rape.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

So far, I haven't seen any indication of proof that even matches the Duke allegations ... and I remember how that turned out.

Not even a slight indication?

[Commo_Soldier]

Dola, the coach that did appear to personally condone raping children, McQuerry, could be taking the field it appears as he was not terminated.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Can you show me a quote that says he was told Sandusky was raping children? I don't see how people can see disturbing and inappropriate and think rape. Those two words can mean lots of things, none of which are as serious as rape.

I can only speak for myself when I state that a sentence with the words "children" and "inappropriate" immediately raises red flags. Include a grown man and showers in that sentence and I am going medieval all over someone. But that is just me I guess.

[judicial clerk]

[quote][This reminds me of something I got really curious about on my drive home listening to the press conference stating he was fired. I wonder how many "victims" will come out now to try and make money off of this. Not saying it is very many, but I could see a person or two saying they were abused to try and get some money as it will be nearly impossible to prove one way or another in many cases./QUOTE]

This is very true. Child abuse can often times be very hard to prove one way or another, especially when cowards and power-corrupted adults with situational ethics choose to cover up and/or ignore the abuse for decades. I have found that, generally, child abuse cases tend to be easier to investigate and prove the sooner they are reported with the coup de grace being those rare times that the perpetrator is caught in the act. Those perpetrators really get nailed to the wall and it tends to be easier on the kids. I will give mcquery and paterno this, for some reason it is hard for people to report child molestation and they are not alone in their inability to do what is right. It is so common it will make you throw up.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Not even a slight indication?

First time I've seen that, or even heard it mentioned.

[lcjjdnh]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Some people appear to have forgotten how things looked at Duke not all that long ago.

As long as we're comparing things that are only related at the highest level of abstraction, I also remember how you couldn't wait for them to inject Troy Davis despite a fair amount of evidence calling his guilt into doubt.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Maybe it is just me, but if he was just told Sandusky was doing inappropriate things then I think he is in the clear. Who decides what is inappropriate, is taking a shower at the same time as an 10 year-old inappropriate? Unless he was given details, he really can just pass it on to his supervisors to have it investigated. As for following up maybe he just never thought of it when around his supervisors. I'm not positive, but I'd venture to guess he possibly never thought of the situation when he was around his supervisors to ask. I realize there was suspicion before, but if there was real smoke I'd operate under the assumption it possibly wasn't true or blown out of proportion. I do think people are getting really overzealous in their outrage when we don't have all the information.

On another note I hope PSU gave him his full salary for the remainder of the contract as he should be entitled to receive since he did all he was required to do. I really think Paterno would have done more if he really understood what happened, I can't see him sweeping that under the rug as he had nothing to lose by bringing it to authorities, but everything to lose by doing as he did.

This is the worst story I've ever seen involving sports. It makes me sick to my stomach. Not an exaggeration, when I read the grand jury report I almost threw up. The thing about the grand jury report that a lot of people are missing is Paterno's own words. "it was reported to me he was doing something inappropriate"

People defending Paterno are trying to make the case he went to his superiors and his job was over at that point. He didn't know for sure, he didn't want to ruin the life of his friend. His own grand jury testimony shows he knew it was serious.

You ask about showering with ten year old boys. When is it bad? How about never?

Are you serious? For starters, let's just look at the situation. They are at a public university and happen to be the only two people in the locker room showers. The child isn't a nephew or a son (which would be tough to justify anyway, but we can even rule that sliver of information out)

I think I can speak for most of the people in the country when I say that it was inappropriate for him to even take a shower with a ten year old. When we factor the graphic nature of the grand jury report, we can answer that question with even more certainty.

We still need information. Paterno needs to come clean and present his side. All of the other people will get their days in court. There is obviously not enough to charge Paterno with right now for legal violations.That said, I don't see how he could continue to coach the team anymore. He only had one chance. Tell his story and hope the public bought it. When he didn't tell his story (even if Penn St. forced him not to talk), it ended any chance he had to coach this week or ever again.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Not even a slight indication?

This is the part just blows my mind.

The 11-year-old was only identified as the former assistant football coach's sixth alleged victim. In 1998, his mother tried to make Sandusky promise never to shower with a boy again, but he wouldn't make that promise, Schreffler testified.


Jerry Lauro, an investigator with the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, testified to the grand jury Sandusky admitted to him and Schreffler in an interview that he hugged the boy while naked in the shower and that he knew it was wrong.


However, the case was closed after then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decided there would be no criminal charges filed.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I can only speak for myself when I state that a sentence with the words "children" and "inappropriate" immediately raises red flags. Include a grown man and showers in that sentence and I am going medieval all over someone. But that is just me I guess.

It does raise flags, hence him reporting it, but does not say something like rape or sexual assault is occurring. He could be taking a shower in a communal shower a couple of shower heads away and some will consider that disturbing and inappropriate. Should Paterno head straight to the police with this or just let his supervisors know so they can do more research. He should not be held accountable for his supervisors inaction. We have very little knowledge of what he was thinking and why he didn't do more. I personally would think much of it because, as stated, McQuerry should have gone to police about it with something that serious, or at least describe what he saw if it was serious.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

And this idiotic bullshit again.

If you're too stupid to see the difference between a prostitute making a claim without any corroborating evidence and a grand jury investigation that includes an eyewitness account and 8 victims, then you really shouldn't let people know that about you.

Is anyone going to dispute how easy it is to get an indictment? For anything?
Seriously? Anyone? Bueller?

I guess you'll have to excuse me if I find the parallels to the reaction incredibly striking ... alternately, you can go fuck yourself. {shrug} Either works for me.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

First time I've seen that, or even heard it mentioned.

You really should do some research then before coming in here and spouting off.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by TroyF

You ask about showering with ten year old boys. When is it bad? How about never?

Are you serious? For starters, let's just look at the situation. They are at a public university and happen to be the only two people in the locker room showers. The child isn't a nephew or a son (which would be tough to justify anyway, but we can even rule that sliver of information out)

I think I can speak for most of the people in the country when I say that it was inappropriate for him to even take a shower with a ten year old. When we factor the graphic nature of the grand jury report, we can answer that question with even more certainty.

We still need information. Paterno needs to come clean and present his side. All of the other people will get their days in court. There is obviously not enough to charge Paterno with right now for legal violations.That said, I don't see how he could continue to coach the team anymore. He only had one chance. Tell his story and hope the public bought it. When he didn't tell his story (even if Penn St. forced him not to talk), it ended any chance he had to coach this week or ever again.

It appears you think it is both ok and not ok with taking a shower with a 10 year-old. One can consider that act disturbing and inappropriate, but that is not anywhere near rape. And may not even be illegal, so why should he lead a crusade against someone when he doesn't know what he is leading one against? He did what he was suppose to do, I'll reserve judgement against him until more is known. At this point who knows what he thought was happening in the shower.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by lcjjdnh

As long as we're comparing things that are only related at the highest level of abstraction, I also remember how you couldn't wait for them to inject Troy Davis despite a fair amount of evidence calling his guilt into doubt.

At no time did I ever see one iota of credible evidence that called his guilt into the slightest bit of doubt. I did, however, run across a fair amount of bullshit that (for whatever reasons) was hyped in order to free a worthless cop killer.