Official 2007-2008 College Basketball Thread

[MrBug708]

I'd love to face Memphis in the tournament again. I'm sure Dorsey will call Kevin Love overrated

[Radii]

Pretty awesome finish in the Wake Forest/NC State game. tie game w/ 5 seconds left, NC State misses a 3 but a dunk putback with 0.1 seconds left on the clock seals a 2 point win for the wolfpack. After duke and unc there is a giant jumble of teams with 3 and 4 losses in the ACC. The latest bracketology has only 4 ACC teams in the tournament(UNC/Duke/Clemson/Va Tech), so how those teams in the middle shake out is going to be really important down the stretch.

[Radii]

ogodogodgodsdlkjfsadlfjsafs Lawson holding his ankle after an awkward fall.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Damn that was beautiful. UCLA just put a beatdown on both Arizona schools this week. If they play like that the rest of the year, no team is going to touch them.

Stanford will give UCLA a game down in Pauley if Mitch Johnson plays a decent game. Stanford can out-D UCLA.

[Radii]

Ty Lawson has a sprained left ankle. It is currently heavily iced, he may not return today. UNC led FSU 8-3 with 15 minutes left in the first half. If Lawson is out for an extended period of time, lets see how bad it is.

Hopefully he is ok, but if he and Frasor are both unavailable... *shudders at the thought*

[Radii]

Lawson is officially out the rest of this game now, with the Duke game coming up Wednesday. To emphasize UNC's awesomeness without Lawson on the floor... FSU just forced a shot clock violation.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Stanford will give UCLA a game down in Pauley if Mitch Johnson plays a decent game. Stanford can out-D UCLA.

lol

[Radii]

FSU Forward Ryan Reid gets stuck after an offensive board w/ like 8 seconds left and takes, and makes, the first 3 pointer of his college career to send the game to OT.

I have no idea what to make of the OT situation. UNC is pushing 20+ turnovers but has FSU in massive foul trouble. I think it may come down to whether FSU gets hot from 3 or not.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

lol

That's some hard-hitting analysis.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

That's some hard-hitting analysis.

Okay, here's some.

They can hang with the Bruins on D. Stanford has a better scoring defense and a very good FG% defense. Stanford has a deep rotation of players to throw out there, and the Lopez twins dominate inside defensively with their athleticism.

What Stanford has in athleticism on the inside, the Bruins more than make up with in physical strength, inside depth and fundamentals. Other than Mbah a Moute, no one inside is going to wow you athletically, but they all know how to play positional defense. And the coaching staff is one of the best defensive-minded staffs in the country, which put together a gameplan at Maples that completely took one twin out of the game and limited the other one. Westbrook and Collison are two of the best pressure guards in the country and UCLA leads the conference in steals and rebounding margin.

And it's unlikely Stanford can hang with the Bruins on offense. Which the Bruins proved by beating them at Maples--going away. The Lopez twins will cause problems inside, as they can do. And Stanford is also fundamentally sound defensively. But the Bruins aren't a power inside team, other than Love. They are an outside team first and a transition scoring team off of a ballhawk defense, and that's a bad matchup for Stanford, which lacks the perimeter athleticism to stay with Collison or Westbrook and the length to get in the face of Shipp or Mcah a Moute. And the presence of Love--and how he has continually been popping out for threes as well--is going to keep Robin Lopez from helping out as much as he normally does.

I think Stanford is a very good team and they will come into Pauley and give the Bruins a good game. Plus, the game is a ways away, so who knows what the teams will be like at that point. But I anticipate Stanford will lose by about 10-15 points.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Okay, here's some.

They can hang with the Bruins on D. Stanford has a better scoring defense and a very good FG% defense. Stanford has a deep rotation of players to throw out there, and the Lopez twins dominate inside defensively with their athleticism.

What Stanford has in athleticism on the inside, the Bruins more than make up with in physical strength, inside depth and fundamentals. Other than Mbah a Moute, no one inside is going to wow you athletically, but they all know how to play positional defense. And the coaching staff is one of the best defensive-minded staffs in the country, which put together a gameplan at Maples that completely took one twin out of the game and limited the other one. Westbrook and Collison are two of the best pressure guards in the country and UCLA leads the conference in steals and rebounding margin.

And it's unlikely Stanford can hang with the Bruins on offense. Which the Bruins proved by beating them at Maples--going away. The Lopez twins will cause problems inside, as they can do. And Stanford is also fundamentally sound defensively. But the Bruins aren't a power inside team, other than Love. They are an outside team first and a transition scoring team off of a ballhawk defense, and that's a bad matchup for Stanford, which lacks the perimeter athleticism to stay with Collison or Westbrook and the length to get in the face of Shipp or Mcah a Moute. And the presence of Love--and how he has continually been popping out for threes as well--is going to keep Robin Lopez from helping out as much as he normally does.

I think Stanford is a very good team and they will come into Pauley and give the Bruins a good game. Plus, the game is a ways away, so who knows what the teams will be like at that point. But I anticipate Stanford will lose by about 10-15 points.

Not bad, Chief...

You may remember the game at Maples last year, when Stanford came back and won. In that game, they had two perimeter scorers that could (and did) take over at the end of the game. Lawrence Hill was one, and Anthony Goods was another.

This year's game at Maples was Brook Lopez' third game back from injury, and Hill was still in some sort of offensive cocoon that he hopefully stepped out of against Wazzu. The team has taken a long time to adjust to Brook being a black hole, and stay active on the offensive end.

I won't deny that UCLA's overall talent level is much, much higher than Stanford's. I just think Stanford is going to be a difficult team to blow out. It's easy for a team like UCLA to blow out Arizona when Arizona decides to not play defense, because the Bruins can match UofA's athleticism.

And I don't think UCLA will shoot 56% from three again...or least I hope not

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Not bad, Chief...

You may remember the game at Maples last year, when Stanford came back and won. In that game, they had two perimeter scorers that could (and did) take over at the end of the game. Lawrence Hill was one, and Anthony Goods was another.

This year's game at Maples was Brook Lopez' third game back from injury, and Hill was still in some sort of offensive cocoon that he hopefully stepped out of against Wazzu. The team has taken a long time to adjust to Brook being a black hole, and stay active on the offensive end.

I won't deny that UCLA's overall talent level is much, much higher than Stanford's. I just think Stanford is going to be a difficult team to blow out. It's easy for a team like UCLA to blow out Arizona when Arizona decides to not play defense, because the Bruins can match UofA's athleticism.

And I don't think UCLA will shoot 56% from three again...or least I hope not

Oh, yeah, never forget that game last year. Brooks had, what, 10 blocks? And that's where Love makes a difference. Love has (by most scouts I have read) the best "hands" and hand strength and control than anyone who has come into the college game in some time (at least for big men). Basically, he's the opposite of Kwame Brown in that respect. He can receive unexpected passes inside and score them without any fumbling or wasted motion. Although he also has an array of post moves and range out to the three point line, he has scored a bunch of points inside this way and by simply being the stronger and more determined player under the glass. And then there is his range. Love has been popping out more and more. Lopez got those blocks last year by sitting and waiting for Collison, Shipp and Aflalo to come inside. What were they going to do, dish it to Aboya or Mata? They took unwise shots inside and Lopez absolutely punished them for it, as he should. But he won't be able to do that this year, because he knows they will find Love and Love will score if he leaves him. And Love is going to take him outside and clear out the middle (so Lopez #2 better be ready). And that's the reason I think last year's game doesn't apply quite as well anymore.

As for this year's earlier game, you're right about Lopez just coming back, but the Bruins were also in transition. Collison had only been back from his knee injury for about six games and he wasn't what he was last year or what he is now at that point. Right now, he's close to the All American status he got in the preseason. Past four games, he has a 6:1 assist to turnover ratio and averaged about 20 ppg (skewed a little by 33 against Oregon State, but even without about 17 ppg). Also, we had just lost Roll (again, and he probably won't be back for the game at Pauley either), and it was James Keefe's first game back from what had been an anticipated redshirt year. So UCLA wasn't really in tip top shape for that game at Maples either (and they still aren't with Roll out, and Mbah a Moute--ankle--and Mata--wrist--seemingly picking up nagging injuries every freakin' game).

As for Hill and Goods, the issue for them is that Mbah a Moute, if healthy, is pretty much the perfect defender for Hill, as he has the length to bother his perimter shots and the athleticism to stay in front of him on drives. Goods likely draws Shipp (who goes to Hill of Mbah a Moute is hurt), which is a matchup Stanford can score a little from--but if Shipp also outscores Goods does it do you match good? And Westbrook and Collison will be trying to tie up Mitch Johnson's quickness, but you know one of them will be keeping tabs on Goods while on the floor, and that is a tougher matchup for Goods driving (although he should be able to shoot over them, which would be harder against the longer Shipp).

I doubt we will shoot that great from three again, but it's true you guys don't really seem to have anyone who can get in Shipp's face when he starts launching those threes from beyond NBA 3-pt range, and he just killed you guys with those at Maples. And if you overplay to Shipp, you leave yourself wide open for drive and pull ups from Collison and Westbrook, both of whom have become very good at that.

I think with two fully healthy teams and a good gameplan, Stanford would have a good chance if the second game were at Maples, rather than the first. Unfortunately, the schedule didn't work out for Stanford, and this second game is in Pauley. That's the last factor we have to consider. That's not an easy place for anyone to go into and win.

Heh, heh, fun talking Pac 10 ball, ain't it?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I went to the Mizzou/Kansas State game this past weekend. I got to see the much-hyped duo of Bill Walker and Michael Beasley. After watching them for the first time in person, I'm pretty sure I've never seen a more immature, self-serving duo than those two players. They gloated when they were ahead and pouted when they managed to blow a 15 point second half lead. In the paper the next day, readers were greeted by these post-game comments......

"There's nothing they (MU) did to win this game." - Bill Walker after MU beat KSU 77-74

"We thought that they were going to lay down when we were up 15. Obviously, they didn't want to go down." - Michael Beasley

I'll be happy when these two players move onto the NBA where this type of behavior is acceptable.

Mizzou heads into Lawrence tonight on Big Monday. Should be fun. First game was a 6 point win for KU.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Radii

Pretty awesome finish in the Wake Forest/NC State game. tie game w/ 5 seconds left, NC State misses a 3 but a dunk putback with 0.1 seconds left on the clock seals a 2 point win for the wolfpack. After duke and unc there is a giant jumble of teams with 3 and 4 losses in the ACC. The latest bracketology has only 4 ACC teams in the tournament(UNC/Duke/Clemson/Va Tech), so how those teams in the middle shake out is going to be really important down the stretch.

What was awesome about that play was the fact that McCauley was the one who inbounded the ball to Grant, then ran the 94 feet to make the putback. We now know how much time it'll take him to run 94 feet as a result. (not a bad 40 time, actually, given it came at the end)

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

I don't know if I would call him "excellent". He can't hit free throws, and he allows horrible centers like Victor Ramalho to get under his skin and foul him out...

He is a very good rebounder and shot blocker, though.

Dorsey is the most important player on the Tigers team.

If any other position has an injury or has foul troubles, they have another player come off the bench to replace that player. With Dorsey, there is no other player on the bench that can come in and give you his production.

[Radii]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3230071

CHAPEL HILL, N.C. -- North Carolina coach Roy Williams was pessimistic Monday about injured point guard Ty Lawson's status for the game against No. 2 Duke.

"I don't feel real good about him playing," Williams said during the Atlantic Coast Conference's weekly media teleconference.

Williams said he wouldn't know Lawson's status for the third-ranked Tar Heels' game Wednesday night game until after practice Tuesday.

from another article on espn about it:

Simply put, Lawson is probably the least dispensable player on any of the national title contenders.

glad to see that my doom and gloom(and sick to my stomach feeling that won't seem to go away whenever i check espn) isn't overreacting.



I have a feeling that this is about to be one of the biggest letdowns/disappointments in the duke/unc rivalry history. unless you're a duke fan, that is.

[Dr. Sak]

As much as I'd love for Duke to beat UNC...it would be tons better if they were at full strength. That way the Heel fans don't have any excuses

[cartman]

Breaking news out of Lubbock is that Bob Knight has resigned, effective immediately. WTF?

hxxp://www.nbc5i.com/sports/15217104/detail.html

[Radii]

Originally Posted by cartman

Breaking news out of Lubbock is that Bob Knight has resigned, effective immediately. WTF?

hxxp://www.nbc5i.com/sports/15217104/detail.html

well that brightens my day! Good f'ing riddance.

I wonder why though, really odd.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Radii

well that brightens my day! Good f'ing riddance.

I wonder why though, really odd.

It shouldn't be terribly surprising.

1. He's looked tired for a couple of years now. His attack of the fan base after his 900th win showed just how frustrated and grumpy he's become. He's just ready to fish and shoot his friends on hunting trips at this point.
2. By stepping out now, he gives his son the team at a rebuilding point rather than a position where expectations are high. It will be interesting to see how much rope his son gets after a couple of years.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It shouldn't be terribly surprising.

I understand the logic of getting his son involved as head coach sooner, but under any circumstances, someone like Knight stepping down with no notice in the middle of the season is highly suprising IMO!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Radii

I understand the logic of getting his son involved as head coach sooner, but under any circumstances, someone like Knight stepping down with no notice in the middle of the season is highly suprising IMO!

I guess people in B12 country have seen this coming at some level, especially with his behavior this year. You could just tell that he was getting really bored with the grind of coaching. I think he enjoys the actual game still, but the rest of the stuff was really wearing him down. Over the past year or so, he'd just hang up on the weekly B12 coaches conference call when he got bored or didn't like the question. They'd play it each week on the radio here in KC just for the comedy of it all. The focus on the 900th win milestone only made it worse.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Mizzou heads into Lawrence tonight on Big Monday. Should be fun. First game was a 6 point win for KU.

You were right, it was fun (j/k)

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

#7 Tennessee trailed #22 Florida 48-44 at the half, in Knoxville no less.

Final: Vols 104 Gators 82

Down 52-46 with 17:57 to play, UT had an 11 point run to take the lead and then turned it into a rout by taking a 9 point lead with 3:55 to play and finishing on a 16-3 run.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

You were right, it was fun (j/k)

SI

Just too much inside. We've got three big men coming in for next year that should give us some inside depth and rebounding depth, but that didn't help us Monday.

[Groundhog]

Watched the replay of Gonzaga-St. Mary's last night. Boy did Gonzaga get screwed by the refs down the stretch, but heck of a game anyhow. All the Aussies contributed to the win for St. Mary's, but none more so than Patty Mills who had a great game (including a big time steal and layup in crunch time).

[JetsIn06]

Anyone watching Duke UNC right now?

[Radii]

hah, yes.

[JetsIn06]

Tough to keep up the discussion because the game goes so fast, but that was a nice three by Duke.

[Radii]

so as predicted UNC's backcourt looks completely incompetent, but the big men are so dominant inside that its still close. Guess it will probably come down to whether or not UNC's big men can continue a 2:1 rebounding edge all game, or whether duke will force Thomas/ginyard/Graves(if he doesn't foul out in the first half) into 20-25 turnovers.

[Radii]

Definitely pleased to only be down 5 right now after that run by Duke. I'm also pleased to see that so far UNC is on pace for under 20 turnovers.

[Radii]

Roy needs to bench Quentin Thomas and let Ginyard run the offense IMO for the rest of the game.

[Radii]

Congrats to Duke.

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sp...hrey_0207.html

Athens -- Georgia basketball player Billy Humphrey was arrested Thursday morning for underage possession of alcohol, according to Athens-Clarke County Police.

Humphrey, 20, was on 18 months probation for a felony weapons charge after a knife was found in his dorm room in November. A condition of that probation was that he avoid trouble with the law.

Police charged Humphrey with underage possession and failure to obey a traffic control device. He was booked in Athens-Clarke County Jail at 2:12 a.m. Thursday and released at 3:45 a.m. on $1,000 bond.

Team spokesman Tim Hix said coach Dennis Felton had just been informed about the arrest and was trying to locate Humphrey about 9 a.m. Thursday. A message to Humphrey's attorney, Kim Stephens, was not returned.

The arrest appears to have violated the terms of Humphrey's probation. He was also placed on a one-year probation by the UGA Student Judiciary.

Humphrey originally ran into trouble with the law on Nov. 13 when UGA Police searched for marijuana in the dorm room Humphrey shared with former teammate Mike Mercer.

No marijuana was found, but police found a knife with a blade of more than 2-1/2 inches in length in Humphrey's closet. That's considered a weapon in the state of Georgia and Humphrey was arrested for having it on school property.

Because it was a felony charge, Humphrey was immediately suspended from the basketball team per athletic department policy. He was reinstated a week later after being accepted in a pretrial diversion program. His record was to be expunged upon completion of his probation provided he stayed out of trouble.

At the time, Felton said, "Billy's a good kid, he made a mistake and he's sorry about it. I don't believe he'll ever let that mistake happen again."

Humphrey, a 6-foot-2 guard from Dacula, is second on the team in scoring with a 13.2 points average. He scored eight points in the Bulldogs' 67-59 loss to Vanderbilt on Wednesday at Stegeman Coliseum.

Humphrey's arrest Thursday continues a trend of tumult for the men's basketball this season. Originally thought to be a season of great promise, Felton announced the suspension of three players for a combined total of 30 games the day before preseason practice was to begin. The suspensions were for failure to comply with the school's academic responsibility policy.

Two of those players -- senior power forward Takais Brown and junior guard Mike Mercer -- eventually were dismissed from the team for unspecified team rules violations. They were the leading returning scorers from the previous season.

The Bulldogs lost another player when junior center Rashaad Singleton quit the team the day the team on Jan. 3. He was unhappy with playing time.

[hoopsguy]

IU's Gordon banks a three from 25' out with :25 seconds to play to tie the game. Illini Pruitt miss a foul shot with 4 seconds left, and it is now in OT.

Pruitt stinks - he was just blocked in OT. Hoosiers up three, Illini losing composure. And I'm preparing to light myself on fire.

[JetsIn06]

GREAT game between Xavier and St. Louis decided with 0.1 seconds left. Great end of game performance by one of the St. Louis players.

[JetsIn06]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

IU's Gordon banks a three from 25' out with :25 seconds to play to tie the game. Illini Pruitt miss a foul shot with 4 seconds left, and it is now in OT.

Pruitt stinks - he was just blocked in OT. Hoosiers up three, Illini losing composure. And I'm preparing to light myself on fire.

Watching this now. 30 seconds left

[hoopsguy]

And Pruitt misses two more with a tie game with 2.2 seconds left. And then gets away with his "I'm terrible, let me foul a guy shooting from 80 feet, and hope the ref doesn't call it" play.

I'm now heading to the garage to search for the gasoline can.

[Dunleavy]

"omg they are throwing beeds"

[hoopsguy]

This has been one miserable basketball season for the Illini. The foul shooting is beyond embarrassing. Second straight year that I have hated our seniors. Good to see FR McCamey get major minutes and shine like he did (7 3's, 29 points is 11 above previous high). I wish Bruce had pulled the plug on this season and played the kids over the last month because this year has been a lost cause since they lost at home to some sectional Tennessee school.

[Johnny93g]

Great win for the Hoosiers. Bruce Weber is classless.

I don't get how the Illini don't have more Big Ten wins. Those kids have talent. 2 wins so far doesnt add up for me.

My Hoosiers are now 19-3, 8-1 in the Big Ten. Hoping they put together a little winning streak down the strech. We got a few battle with Michigan St. coming up which will decide the conference championship.

[Chief Rum]

Another big win for UCLA, beating the Cougars up in Pullman.

The Cougars are tremendously talented, but they have had some rough go's of late. They really need to win against USC on Saturday.

[Butter]

How much longer does Bruce Weber get in Champaign? Illinois hasn't been this bad in a while.

As a Dayton fan, I'm not all that sad to see it, considering that Trent Meacham transferred from us to Illinois after his freshman season. Call it the "Eric Gordon" factor.

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

How much longer does Bruce Weber get in Champaign?

At least as long as Ron Guenther is AD, and probably until Weber decides to retire. Recruiting has really picked up and the future is looking a lot brighter. Next year might be a little bumpy too unless someone steps up into a leadership role, but I fully expect top 20 finishes for a long time starting two years from now.

[Butter]

Will the fans wait through another .500-ish or worse season?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

Great win for the Hoosiers. Bruce Weber is classless.

I don't get how the Illini don't have more Big Ten wins. Those kids have talent. 2 wins so far doesnt add up for me.

My Hoosiers are now 19-3, 8-1 in the Big Ten. Hoping they put together a little winning streak down the strech. We got a few battle with Michigan St. coming up which will decide the conference championship.

Only a deluded Hoosiers fan could watch what happened with the Eric Gordon saga, observe the continued violations by Sampson, and conclude that Weber is the one that is classless. I'm astonished that the same fan base that used to crow about their integrity with Bob Knight as coach can make statements like this.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Only a deluded Hoosiers fan could watch what happened with the Eric Gordon saga, observe the continued violations by Sampson, and conclude that Weber is the one that is classless. I'm astonished that the same fan base that used to crow about their integrity with Bob Knight as coach can make statements like this.

I'd agree that Sampson and the Indiana program are certainly not a role model for most programs, but Weber didn't even bother to shake hands with Gordon. A head coach, no matter how much he may have been screwed, should be the bigger person and shake a man's hand after a game. It really doesn't take that much to do something that simple.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Will the fans wait through another .500-ish or worse season?

I think it depends on what portion of the fan base you are questioning. The Chicagoland group is considerably more restless than the downstate Illinois people, as far as I can tell.

As Ryno noted, the Illini have already landed a bunch of incoming HS players. 4 stud JRs and the best 2 SOs in the state of IL. All of these guys should be Top 100 and a couple are likely to be 5 star guys. So the recruiting woes that haunted Weber, and play a big part in the problems you see this year, seem to have been addressed.

However, this year and potentially next the Illini have to pay the bill on the recruiting failures of Weber's first few years. He swung and missed on a ton of players beyond the well-publicized Eric Gordon. Just as 2nd-best hands lose you a lot of money in poker, so it also is with recruiting when you don't have time to recover on secondary targets because they have already committed elsewhere. The impact of a recruiting miss is so much bigger in hoops than football, for a number of fairly obvious reasons.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Also, don't forget that Alex Legion will be available starting either mid-December or January of next season.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'd agree that Sampson and the Indiana program are certainly not a role model for most programs, but Weber didn't even bother to shake hands with Gordon. A head coach, no matter how much he may have been screwed, should be the bigger person and shake a man's hand after a game. It really doesn't take that much to do something that simple.

I would vehemently disagree if you had used Sampson as the example here. Gordon is far from clean in this either, although obviously there was a ton of pressure on a 17 year old kid as this went down.

That said, Gordon commits to Illinois and maintains after Sampson is hired that he is on-board with the Illini. News reports emerge that he is spending time meeting with Sampson and Indiana, but when contacted he tells the Illini that there is nothing to worry about. Indiana does not notify Illinois that they are recruiting a verbally commit in their own conference, something that has been a no-no in hoops as compared to football. Gordon actually teams up with Derrick Rose for several games over the summer between his junior and senior year with the idea that he is helping recruit him to play at Illinois. Then, right before signing day, Gordon flips over to Indiana.

Should Illinois have seen it coming? Plenty of people did, but from the coaches perspective they were in contact with the kid and the other university involved and were lied to repeatedly. I'm not sure that if I was in Weber's place that I would shake Gordon's hand either. If I was, it would be strictly to avoid the negative PR associated with failing to do so.

If you want to criticize Weber for his in-game coaching this year, his past recruiting failures, or his insistence in giving responsibility and minutes to seniors who don't deserve them then I'm onboard for that discussion. But I'm not inclined to be sympathetic to poor Eric Gordon.