NBA Draft Lottery/Offseason Thread 2012

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

While we're at it, can someone explain why Danny Ferry was a hot GM candidate? What exactly did he do in Cleveland that warranted him being such a hot property this off-season.

The NBA still hasn't figured out that former players shouldn't be the ones building teams.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

While we're at it, can someone explain why Danny Ferry was a hot GM candidate? What exactly did he do in Cleveland that warranted him being such a hot property this off-season.

I can't stand Danny Ferry on so many levels. I hated his overrated ass at Duke. I hated that the Clippers picked him in the draft, even after he said he wouldn't play for them. And I hated that that then led them being forced to trade his ass, where he went on in his NBA career to prove he was indeed as overrated as I thought he was. And since he retired, he has done nothing to indicate to me he is just as overrated as a GM as he was as a player. For someone as worthless at anything basketball-related as he is, it is amazing the personal (if not professional) success he has had in this industry.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

OMG, Danny Ferry is a fucking genius


If he manages to get rid of both JJ and Marvin in just a few days, he could probably solve the entire nation's health care issues & be back in time for final roster cuts.

Dude, it's Devin Harris.

As for trading JJ, I'll give him credit, but only because he is like the 29th worst GM taking advantage of the 30th.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by whomario

If you now leave out Lamar Odom (you can´t possible thinkg about taking him) that leaves only 14 players from the preliminary roster left.

Not sure why you would leave out Odom, especially if the reports are true that he is back in tip top basketball shape and playing on a level with how he did with the Lakers.

I have my doubts about Odom, too; last season was just the ultimate CF. But he's been back in LA for months (where he is comfortable), and now he has been dealt to LA, too. His ego is still fragile as fuck, but for the most part, everything has gone right for him since he was "dismissed" from the Mavs.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Dude, it's Devin Harris.

As for trading JJ, I'll give him credit, but only because he is like the 29th worst GM taking advantage of the 30th.

Woah, I type out the word credit and the pop up ads we see here make it into a link which brings up the pop up ad? WTF? Do I get a check for that shit?

credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit. credit.

[Chief Rum]

Okay, guess it doesn't always work.

[spleen1015]

Has anyone ever had a quadruple dola?

[spleen1015]

Before Chief, I mean.

[Chief Rum]

Heh...original link is gone, too. Guess you guys will have to take my word for it.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Before Chief, I mean.

Yes, it has happened. And screw you for blowing my quintuple dola.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I can't stand Danny Ferry on so many levels. I hated his overrated ass at Duke. I hated that the Clippers picked him in the draft, even after he said he wouldn't play for them. And I hated that that then led them being forced to trade his ass, where he went on in his NBA career to prove he was indeed as overrated as I thought he was. And since he retired, he has done nothing to indicate to me he isn't as overrated as a GM as he was as a player. For someone as worthless at anything basketball-related as he is, it is amazing the personal (if not professional) success he has had in this industry.

He ruined both my teenage years and my adulthood. I fucking hate him. I think his dad must have worked the right channels with the old money people so that he continues to get a lifetime achievement award for turning nothing into something.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Okay, guess it doesn't always work.

Putting my paranoid IT security hat on here - scan your PC for spyware/malware. Some forums have that functionality built in, but it can also be caused by something more sinister.

[Groundhog]

I wonder if Orlando would get a better offer for Howard than Al Hortford+something else that's not Josh Smith. Don't know that it's worth it for Atlanta given Dwight's likely flee from Atlanta following the season though.

[Arles]

I have mixed feelings about the Joe Johnson deal. Ferry just turned a marginal $87 million investment over the next 4 years into $15 million of expirings (best of which is Jordan Farmar - who will be bought out) and a lottery protected pick from Houston.

Hollinger and ESPN are having their yearly orgasm over the team that creates the most cap room - acting as if CP3 and Dwight Howard are going to come to Atlanta next year. First, Atlanta is currently rolling out a starting lineup of Devin Harris, Anthony Morrow, Josh Smith, Horford and ZaZa Gabor - uh, Pachulia. Their bench is now scrubs from New Jersey, Jeff Teague and a rookie. They will be lucky to win 30 games.

Howard will be settled by the deadline and I don't think the New Jersey poo-poo platter will satisfy the Magic in a deal. I'm guessing he goes to Houston, LAL, Dallas or maybe a darkhorse with picks and young talent. He may also very well stay in Orlando. So, then you have CP3 - who will be coming off a playoff run with the Clippers. He's suddenly going to say 'No' to them to team up with Al Horford and cap space? Hollinger is on crack.

If Atlanta can parlay these expirings into solid players (maybe a decent SG and another big), then it's a good deal. If they are hoping to shed a bunch of cap and bank on CP3/Howard, they will stink this year and years into the future.

There's a good chance this trades ends up becoming the ghost of Joe Johnson for bad, long term FA contracts to Al Jefferson/David West/Nikola Pekovic and Kevin Martin/Jarrett Jack/JJ Redick. Not sure this franchise is any better off if that happens. If you're an Atlanta fan, you better hope Ferry is on the horn by the deadline trying to move these expirings.

[korme]

If nothing else, Ferry is doing SOMETHING. It was this or another year finishing 4th/5th in the East and going nowhere, getting mid-late first round picks and meddling.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I wonder if Orlando would get a better offer for Howard than Al Hortford+something else that's not Josh Smith. Don't know that it's worth it for Atlanta given Dwight's likely flee from Atlanta following the season though.

If you trade Horford for Howard, you litterally have no one on your team next season outside of Howard. Why would he do that when there's a 99% chance all the marquis players (CP3, D-Williams, ...) will all be under contract? What? Are you hoping for a Howard+David West+Kevin Martin trio all signed for max deals? Those are probably the two best FAs likely to be out on the market in 2013.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by korme

If nothing else, Ferry is doing SOMETHING. It was this or another year finishing 4th/5th in the East and going nowhere, getting mid-late first round picks and meddling.

Expirings can be very valuable if you don't let them expire. I'm just hoping he's not believing the Hollinger/ESPN dribble and thinking he actually has a chance to land CP3 and Howard. If he were to pull that off, then all this is moot. But I put that chance at about 5%. His best bet is to hope that he can turn some of the expirings into a quality 2-guard and maybe a big. Then, he has a chance at a decent team. Letting everyone leave and going after the best FAs with Horford and an empty cupboard isn't a great strategy - esp given the likely FAs out there.

[korme]

I agree mostly with what you are saying, except that looney business about David West or Kev Martin even sniffing a max deal

[stevew]

Unless they are unbelievably addicted to staying in OKC, Ibaka and Harden should both hold off on extensions. Good chance they are both going to get the max next summer with these market conditions.

[stevew]

Also-
I think the Nets can still sign and trade Lopez and Brooks(and, say, 3 first rounders) for Howard, right?

Like if their first 5 is
DWill
Joe Johnson
Gerald Wallace
Kris Humphries
Dwight Howard

That's a pretty good team IMO, granted with 0 bench.

[Arles]

Sounds like Humphries would be a S&T in the Howard deal if it went down (prob to a 3rd team). I just want to be clear, it's not that I think the Atlanta moves are "bad moves". I just think there needs to be 2-3 plans even before FA.

Nothing is worse than stinking in a solid market like Atlanta to try and get FAs next summer and then being all dressed up with no one to take to the dance. I would be shocked if more than one of Howard, CP3, Harden or Ibaka is an FA next summer. And, there's a decent chance none of them will be.

[korme]

Originally Posted by stevew

Also-
I think the Nets can still sign and trade Lopez and Brooks(and, say, 3 first rounders) for Howard, right?

Like if their first 5 is
DWill
Joe Johnson
Gerald Wallace
Kris Humphries
Dwight Howard

That's a pretty good team IMO, granted with 0 bench.

Minus Humphries, plus J-Kidd as 6th man

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Hopefully he won't leave. He likes it here...his kid is close to the best hospital for his diabetes (I think that's what he has, right?), his wife is settled...he seems good and settled...KG is back...not so sure he wants to start uprooting himself repeatedly at this stage of his career.

Take the $12mil and finish up your career (presumably).

Look...I'm not confident or anything, not even "overly optimistic", but that's a strong offer, and I'd hate to see him go elsewhere (especially to frigging Miami).

It'll really come down to how bad he wants to win a championship vs. work/life balance. The Celtics can certainly contend next year (at least on paper), but Miami is clearly the favorite. Especially if he joins them.

[korme]

I don't think Ray Allen will go back to Boston. I'm pretty sure they are ready for Avery Bradley to be their starting 2. Allen doesn't want a bench role.

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by korme

I don't think Ray Allen will go back to Boston. I'm pretty sure they are ready for Avery Bradley to be their starting 2. Allen doesn'Whatt want a bench role.

That would rule out Miami too then, right?

[whomario]

For what it´s worth, the Nets also signed Mirza Teletovic who i could see being a decent option to start right away at the 4. If he adjusts well i don´t see why he wouldn´t be as good at least as a Ryan Anderson. Will help Brook Lopez a ton offensively spacing the floor.
Not a great rebounder (but improved over the last 2 seasons) or defender but can really score and shoot the ball from all over. His percentages were hurt with defenses keying in on him, with more open looks in the NBA he´ll be deadly.
I´m not sure he´s worth the type of money the Nets paid him, but he´s a good player.
He signed for the full MLE, so that can´t be used to sign Kidd then.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Arles

Hollinger and ESPN are having their yearly orgasm over the team that creates the most cap room - acting as if CP3 and Dwight Howard are going to come to Atlanta next year.

...

There's a good chance this trades ends up becoming the ghost of Joe Johnson for bad, long term FA contracts to Al Jefferson/David West/Nikola Pekovic and Kevin Martin/Jarrett Jack/JJ Redick. Not sure this franchise is any better off if that happens. If you're an Atlanta fan, you better hope Ferry is on the horn by the deadline trying to move these expirings.

This is exactly what gets me about the "excitement" about cap space. It's only cap space if someone is out there to be signed and it's used wisely. Say, New York, destination of destinations? How did clearing out all that cap space for Lebr-- Carmelo Anthony and Bos--- Amare Stoudamire work out for you? Or how about New Jersey? Where they still can't get anyone else to go?

SI

[Young Drachma]

Consensus seems to be that he's less plussed about backing up D-Wade over Avery Bradley or something. Memphis could get him in the stsrting rotation but he's not likely to want to be there.

[korme]

Rudy Fernandez goes back to Spain

Raps sign Landry Fields to 3 year offer sheet, basically cock-blocking the Knicks for Steve Nash

[korme]

Ray Allen would be PERFECT in Memphis

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Sad to see him go. He's worth that money. One of the best defensive players in the league and will help the Rockets out a lot. Interested to see how he works out as a starter.

Good to hear! Finally something working out this offseason

Well, that's not entirely fair. But let's start at the top:
*Martin seems like he's never recovered from the previous season's vetoed trade and the new NBA fouling rules
*Father Time has really taken a bat to Scola over the last year
*Lowry pouted about McHale but that wasn't a big deal because Dragic came on strong
*So the Rockets have put Lowry (along with everyone else) on the trading block

End of Season
PG: Dragic, Lowry, Boykins, Fortson
SG: Lee, Martin
SF: Parsons, Budinger, Morris
PF: Scola, Patterson, Simpson
CC: Dalembert, Camby, Smith

That brings us to pre-draft:
*Budinger is gone, traded for a pick (18)
*Dalembert is gone- partially traded for salary relief but also to move up (14 to 12) and get back another Morey pu pu platter of players: Leuer, Livingston, Brockman
*Couldn't pry the #2 from Charlotte, #5 from Sacramento, or #7 from Golden State
*Couldn't get Dwight Howard to stop being a big baby

Draft and Beyond
*Pick 12: SG Jeremy Lamb
*Pick 16: ?F Royce White
*Pick 18: PF Terrence Jones
*Omer Asik agrees to an offer sheet. Chicago could match but it's unlikely due to cap situation
*Oh, and for good measure: Donatas Motiejunas will be coming back over to the US this seasons, I suspect

Current Roster
PG: Lowry, Dragic (UFA), Livingston
SG: Martin, Lee (RFA), Lamb
SF: Parsons, Morris
PF: Scola, Patterson, Montiejunas, White, Jones, Leuer, Brockman
CC: Asik(RFA?), Camby (UFA)

By my count, that's 17 players which is a few more than there will be time for on the court next season. It's a lot of useful players but it's two team's worth and he needs to consolidate 7~10 of them into 2~4 much better players. Morey is great is at finding other team's junk, featuring its value, and then trading or using it but stars aren't just wandering around out there unknown.

Originally Posted by stevew

Seems as if Morey has already destroyed the Gilbert Arenas provision rule in the cap. Kind of funny.

The above paragraphs aside, I love Daryl Morey. It's so refreshing to have a creative and forward thinking GM to counteract a completely old school luddite (Dayton Moore) for a couple of my favorite teams.

I was telling my wife, heading into the draft: he plays like a decent sim player plays a text-based sim. It's all about acquiring the best useful parts, treating players as assets, and then knowing you can take advantage of the bad AI around the league to turn your disjointed assets into what you need.

Unfortunately, he's never been able to get a star-level player much less the one or two more you need in addition to your main star.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Arles

Nothing is worse than stinking in a solid market like Atlanta to try and get FAs next summer and then being all dressed up with no one to take to the dance.

I'd say you're badly misreading the market. Utterly despised ownership, an absurdly overpaid albatross that does a great invisible man act and a 7-year reminder that Chris Paul was available but since he wasn't a small forward the Hawks wouldn't draft him. And that's the plus side even before the words starts to emerge that Josh Smith (who I think is overrated but that's beside the point) is very happy with the moves that were made.

Winning 10 games next season is going to be an improvement over another year of watching mediocre & unlikable futility. Hell, even I might consider giving a damn about the Hawks next season ... and neither DH nor CP have anything to do with that.

[stevew]

My issues with Joe Johnson were that the Hawks set the market to retain him at a price level far beyond what the market was. Sort of like Allen Houston was back in the day. It's one thing to overpay, but he was well beyond what any other team would offer. Now he's probably going to be a good guy since he could be the 3rd option in Brooklyn.

Seems like the Rockets should be in play for Horford or Josh Smith.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by stevew

My issues with Joe Johnson were that the Hawks set the market to retain him at a price level far beyond what the market was. Sort of like Allen Houston was back in the day. It's one thing to overpay, but he was well beyond what any other team would offer. Now he's probably going to be a good guy since he could be the 3rd option in Brooklyn.

Seems like the Rockets should be in play for Horford or Josh Smith.

There were some "Josh Smith as a second option if Dwight Howard turns us down" stuff before the draft but I haven't heard anything on that front lately. Most of the non-Asik rumors revolve around an Eric Gordon sign-and-trade and how they're going to fix the roster logjam.

SI

[larrymcg421]

Celtics sign Jason Terry to 5/$15 million. Guess that means goodbye to Ray Allen.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

Now he's probably going to be a good guy since he could be the 3rd option in Brooklyn.

Albeit an extraordinarily overpaid third option.

[whomario]

Can someone explain how and why theese 5/5/10 type contracts are now possible ? I must admit i haven´t quite read up on the new CBA.


Raptors will aparently sign Landry Fields to just such a deal. (does that mean the Nash chase is over or would Nash sign first and then Fields will be the MLE signing ?)

Also the Nets sign Reggie Evans in a sign and trade for 3 years for only 5 mio. I am shocked that the Clippers wouldn´t resign him, he seemed like a good part of the team on and off the court and it´s not like that is a steep price


@ Sterlingice : I wouldn´t give up on Scola yet, he looked better after the all star game, especially did he look a ton better passing the ball and getting to the line a bit more as well. To me it seemed he simply needed some time to adjust to his role in the offense, i fully expect a better season ahead.

But i was decently impressed by Motiejunas last season the couple times i saw him, so they might have a point trying to move Scola if sth comes up.

Rockets are having a meeting with Jeremy Lin btw ...

Rudy Fernandez moves back to Spain, will sign with Real Madrid once more.

The Twolves are "talking contract numbers" with Greg Stiemsma ... Sure he´s a nice story and propably a decent fit, but they have to pay Darko regardless so i don´t see much sense bringing in another Center when you also will play small ball quite a bit.

[stevew]

It's the Gilbert Arenas provision for guys with 2 years, but not full bird rights. You offer the guy whatever free agent space you have, for example, Asik was about 8m in cap space. For the team signing him, they can match at 5/5.1/15, but the team offering counts him as 8/8.3/8.7(rounding). It's on CBAFaq.com

[stevew]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Albeit an extraordinarily overpaid third option.

Oh, yeah, most definitely the historical high water point for overpaid 3rd option. sort of like how Zito had over 100m left and was struggling to stay in the Giants rotation.

[whomario]

@ Stevew : Thanks, wasn´t aware of that change

The Nets signing Teletovic for the full MLE also might kill any chance to land Howard, it seems that if you use the MLE you aren´t allowed a payroll bigger than 74 mio.
Howard + Johnson + Wallace (assuming 9 mio) + Deron (assuming max contract of 17,2 mio) + Teletovic allready stands at 70,5 mio. Then add Evans with 1-2 mio and you can´t even fill the roster.

I think they´ll be better off just signing Lopez and stick with that (if Deron resigns), if they fill out the roster efficiently and somehow find some defensive ability, that´s a pretty damn good team.
Can still try to make a deal for Howard at the trade deadline.

EDIT : Nets are also now looking at Ersan Ilyasova in a sign and trade also involving Humphries. Lopez/Ilyasova/Teletovic would be very intriguing up front.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by whomario

Also the Nets sign Reggie Evans in a sign and trade for 3 years for only 5 mio. I am shocked that the Clippers wouldn´t resign him, he seemed like a good part of the team on and off the court and it´s not like that is a steep price

Yeah, Reggie had a good niche role on last year's squad and no fans I saw wouldn't have taken him back. I think it came down to that Odom is a more effective backup #4, and they would rather have someone taller to backup DJ at C. Word is the Clippers are talking to Ryan Hollins. He is certainly in the right height range.

IMO, the Clips decided early on that Evans wasn't in their plans, and the Nets wanted to use their whole MLC on that guy you like that I don't know (Meletovic?), and enough interest was out there in Evans that he could afford to consider non-vet min contracts. So the Nets approached the Clips about a sign and trade to beat those other non-min offers without using their MLC.

[whomario]

Must admit i forgot about Odom

Come on, i´ve written his name half a dozen times by now (i get that people will be sceptical btw, but the guy is truly a great shooter that will thrive with a few uncontested shots each game. very quick release and can shoot on stepbacks and off screens as well. Shot looks similar to Love actually only with a higher release)

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Celtics sign Jason Terry to 5/$15 million. Guess that means goodbye to Ray Allen.

Booo...hiss.

[stevew]

I think the Celtics have had a good offseason. JET should be a great irrational confidence guy. They are being back Green. I think they will make another deep playoff run.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by stevew

I think the Celtics have had a good offseason. JET should be a great irrational confidence guy. They are being back Green. I think they will make another deep playoff run.

I <3 me some Ray Allen though. I like seeing him around town...don't want him to leave.

[Groundhog]

Sad to see Allen leave, but good fit for Boston IMO. Going from a 36 year old 6th man to a 34 year old one, I guess Boston is in the midst of a youth movement?

Nets went from attrocious to... intriguing? Deron has signed for 5 years just now, Joe Johnson at the 2, Gerald Wallace, Teletovic, Lopez. Reggie Evans is a good fit off the bench given Lopez and Teletovic's reputations for softness, while Wallace also helps in that area... Hmmm.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by stevew

I think the Celtics have had a good offseason. JET should be a great irrational confidence guy. They are being back Green. I think they will make another deep playoff run.

Completely forgot about Jeff Green. Yeah, Celtics should still be solid next season. Sullinger was a great pickup, Jet is a quality bench scorer, Bradley figures to improve, Rondo is Rondo, and Pierce and Garnett should still have enough in the tank to feature for another year. My only criticism is that I think they blew the Fab pick in the 1st round of the draft. You can argue that it's worth taking the risk at that point in the draft, but in a deep draft like this I feel they could have picked up a rotation guy at that spot, rather than a guy who will be featuring on an NBDL bench in 12-13.

[stevew]

I wonder if Bass coming back will be a possibility or if the Celts can sign and trade him.

[Arles]

Deron Williams officially back to the Nets (5 years - $100 mil)

Sources -- Deron Williams has chosen Brooklyn Nets over hometown Dallas Mavericks - ESPN New York

ESPN just said they could still fit Howard, but they'd have to pay more tax. Not sure how the numbers fit after all the other moves.

For Ilyasova, it appears Orlando has more interest in him than Humphries. So, the deal would be something like:
NJ sends Lopez, Brooks & 3 firsts to Magic, Humphries S&T to Bucks
Bucks get Humphries, send Ilyasova to Magic
Magic send Howard to Nets

[RedKingGold]

I ripped him earlier, but give Billy King credit. That gamble for Williams worked out pretty well.