Werewolf LXI - Ocean's Eleven (GAME OVER, SEE PAGE 19 FOR RESULT.)

[RendeR]

I disagree with BK's decision, but I'm not sure it points to him being a wolf. I've seen him follow faulty logic like a pit bull on a prime rib....however he could just be using that reputation to cover his fur coat, so to speak.

[Barkeep49]

Render: I have seen lots of games with the duke being a bad guy and there was no good duke. This is, however, one of the few games I can recall that has the possibility of having both a good and evil duke. I do, however, feel the duke is exactly the sort of role which would be ommitted in a game where not all roles are included.

So based on that I feel there is only 1 duke in the game. Now, with that supposition it's a coinflip as to whether render is good or evil. A coinflip is better odds, for me, than any other possibility. I am hardly convinced of his being evil, but I like the possibility better than anyone else, as really the only other person pinging my radar is path.

[Passacaglia]

I'm not thrilled with either of the two options at this point. In fact, if choosing from either of Barkeep's percentage plays, I'd have to go with his idea from yesterday.

VOTE LATHUM

Also, this vote takes us in a completely different direction, which I think is something we need right now.

[PurdueBrad]

Here is the current vote tally (as of post 453):

Path12 (1)- Claphamsa (422)
RendeR (1)- Barkeep49 (421)
Lathum (1)- Passacaglia (453)

Not voted: Telle, Path12, Anxiety, RendeR, SnDvls, ntndeacon, jeheinz72, Lathum

I won't be updating as much after 3 pm CST as the wife and I are doing a charity bowl this afternoon. I will be back in the evening and definitely by deadline.

[Telle]

Ok, my training is over and we're heading out shortly.. I'll be on the road all evening and probably won't make it in time for deadline.

There's just something about Barkeep that's pinging my radar this game. I'm not sure what it is.. but then I've also had games when I felt this way and was wrong.. but for lack of a better candidate right now..

VOTE BARKEEP

[PurdueBrad]

Here is the current vote tally (as of post 456):

RendeR (1)- Barkeep49 (421)
Path12 (1)- Claphamsa (422)
Lathum (1)- Passacaglia (453)
Barkeep49 (1)- Telle (455)

Not voted: Path12, Anxiety, RendeR, SnDvls, ntndeacon, jeheinz72, Lathum

I won't be updating as much after 3 pm CST as the wife and I are doing a charity bowl this afternoon. I will be back in the evening and definitely by deadline.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I'm not thrilled with either of the two options at this point. In fact, if choosing from either of Barkeep's percentage plays, I'd have to go with his idea from yesterday.

VOTE LATHUM

Also, this vote takes us in a completely different direction, which I think is something we need right now.

Why are we voting Lathum?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Why are we voting Lathum?

Pass says he's going off of my logic. My logic yesterday was that Lathum's absence corresponded with the absence of a night 1 kill. It was, simply, a Day 2 vote and one I haven't followed up with any real intensity since.

[Passacaglia]

Not just that, but I don't like any of the ideas being floated around too much, so I'm just throwing something up.

[Abe Sargent]

I didn;t like that idea yesterday, and I like it less today.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I didn;t like that idea yesterday, and I like it less today.

Then you're in luck. "We" aren't voting Lathum -- just me!

[SnDvls]

Well it's getting to be that time where I need to get a vote in and start heading home. I hope to be back on again tonight, but not too sure.

I'll be the person to again break the tie and put a 2nd vote on someone.

of the 4 people there (so as to not throw a new name out there for jhenitz )

vote Path

of the 4 there now he's where I'll vote today. **shrugs**

[PurdueBrad]

Here is the current vote tally (as of post 462):

Path12 (2)- Claphamsa (422), SnDvls (462)
RendeR (1)- Barkeep49 (421)
Lathum (1)- Passacaglia (453)
Barkeep49 (1)- Telle (455)

Not voted: Path12, Anxiety, RendeR, ntndeacon, jeheinz72, Lathum

I won't be updating as much after 3 pm CST as the wife and I are doing a charity bowl this afternoon. I will be back in the evening and definitely by deadline.

[jeheinz72]

It's between path and BK for me, I'll decide in the next hour or so before I"m gone for the day

[Lathum]

Nice hit and run Pass.

The thing about Render for me is that when he did use his duking ability he did it on a completely random candidate. The more I think about it I get a sense he was gunning for a villager role.

VOTE RENDER

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Nice hit and run Pass.

The thing about Render for me is that when he did use his duking ability he did it on a completely random candidate. The more I think about it I get a sense he was gunning for a villager role.

VOTE RENDER

huh? Where have I run to? I'm pretty sure I explained why I voted the way I did, then when asked, I explained it again.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

huh? Where have I run to? I'm pretty sure I explained why I voted the way I did, then when asked, I explained it again.

you explained WHY you voted the way you did. But why the vote for me?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

you explained WHY you voted the way you did. But why the vote for me?

Doesn't explaining why I voted the way I did also explain why I voted for you? Anyway, NOW i'm going to run. Heading home.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I'm not thrilled with either of the two options at this point. In fact, if choosing from either of Barkeep's percentage plays, I'd have to go with his idea from yesterday.

VOTE LATHUM

Also, this vote takes us in a completely different direction, which I think is something we need right now.

show me where you explained why you voted me as opposed to someone else.

did you pick my name from a hat?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Nice hit and run Pass.

The thing about Render for me is that when he did use his duking ability he did it on a completely random candidate. The more I think about it I get a sense he was gunning for a villager role.

VOTE RENDER

There was nothing random about it. i explained to you exactly why I Duked to him. Why would you try and make it out to be a random shot?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Pass says he's going off of my logic. My logic yesterday was that Lathum's absence corresponded with the absence of a night 1 kill. It was, simply, a Day 2 vote and one I haven't followed up with any real intensity since.

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Not just that, but I don't like any of the ideas being floated around too much, so I'm just throwing something up.

Lathum this doesn't explain for you?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

There was nothing random about it. i explained to you exactly why I Duked to him. Why would you try and make it out to be a random shot?

your candidate came from left field. I realized you explained it but IMO it could easily be you were looking for an important villager role.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Lathum this doesn't explain for you?

that isn't really a satisfactory explination. You usually are the type of player that votes based on your own theories. Not someone else's day old theory.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Lathum

that isn't really a satisfactory explination. You usually are the type of player that votes based on your own theories. Not someone else's day old theory.

Yeah I'm not even voting on my day old theory since I was never thrilled with it

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Yeah I'm not even voting on my day old theory since I was never thrilled with it

neither was I

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Nice hit and run Pass.

The thing about Render for me is that when he did use his duking ability he did it on a completely random candidate. The more I think about it I get a sense he was gunning for a villager role.

VOTE RENDER

I'll be honest, my first reaction at seeing RendeR was duke, not evil wolf, and BK's argument that its 50/50 didn;t sway me, but this does. Thios is actual supposition, which I like.

Vote RendeR

[Abe Sargent]

I miss tanglewood in these games

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

your candidate came from left field. I realized you explained it but IMO it could easily be you were looking for an important villager role.

And its just as likely I was looking for an important wolf role as well. You flipping BK's coins to make your decisions now?

[jeheinz72]

I'm still not buying the case on RendeR (though I always read him wrong, so maybe I should wise up). BK just seems to be playing oddly to me, so unless someone changes my other mind in the next 45 minutes

Vote Barkeep

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

And its just as likely I was looking for an important wolf role as well. You flipping BK's coins to make your decisions now?

BK's theory had no basis on my vote. I think I stated my point clearly.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I'll be honest, my first reaction at seeing RendeR was duke, not evil wolf, and BK's argument that its 50/50 didn;t sway me, but this does. Thios is actual supposition, which I like.

Vote RendeR

So nothing else convinces you, but Lathum's self stated OPINION, does? Why do you trust Lathum so much to take a chance on Killing a Good Role? Give us something to validate this vote with besides "I like Lathum!"

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by RendeR

So nothing else convinces you, but Lathum's self stated OPINION, does? Why do you trust Lathum so much to take a chance on Killing a Good Role? Give us something to validate this vote with besides "I like Lathum!"

It's simple. I like to vote based on supposition, I need to beleive that there is a good in game reason for a person to behave in that way, and then I;m comfortabel vating that way.

Saying you might be an evil duke is one thing, but providing context to that by illustraing how your behavior fits that statement is somehtign else entirely, and more convincing for me.

Note my vote is very risky. If you turn up the duke, I will have been the third vote on you, so I am putting myself out there, but I like Lathum;s reasoning, so here goes.

[Abe Sargent]

I think as a villager, I;m comfortabe taking more risks than as a wolf.

[Abe Sargent]

Anybody else ever notice that about yourselves?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

BK's theory had no basis on my vote. I think I stated my point clearly.

The coin flip comment was an aside relating to the fact that you have a 50/50 choice of "renders a bad duke, render's a good duke" and you decided, "IMO" as you said, that I'm bad.

Now please, validate that vote, at least admit you're guessing because you have no evidence to back it up with.

I at least have stated exactly why I duked Chesapeake, I was wrong, indeed. He was not a wolf. Sucks to be me because I wasted a duking. But to continue coming after me for doing so seems IMO, to be a really bad play.

I'll add that the way you, BK and Anxiety are all hopping this train looks pretty poorly on all of you as well. If you Lynch me and I turn up as the Persuader that I AM, then the rest of the village best be hanging you three one right after another.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

So nothing else convinces you, but Lathum's self stated OPINION, does? Why do you trust Lathum so much to take a chance on Killing a Good Role? Give us something to validate this vote with besides "I like Lathum!"

actualy your role is now useless to us.

I think killing you makes the most sense since we will wonder weather we can trust you the rest of the game. Plus it eliminates the possibility of killing a usefull role.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by RendeR

The coin flip comment was an aside relating to the fact that you have a 50/50 choice of "renders a bad duke, render's a good duke" and you decided, "IMO" as you said, that I'm bad.

Now please, validate that vote, at least admit you're guessing because you have no evidence to back it up with.

I at least have stated exactly why I duked Chesapeake, I was wrong, indeed. He was not a wolf. Sucks to be me because I wasted a duking. But to continue coming after me for doing so seems IMO, to be a really bad play.

I'll add that the way you, BK and Anxiety are all hopping this train looks pretty poorly on all of you as well. If you Lynch me and I turn up as the Persuader that I AM, then the rest of the village best be hanging you three one right after another.

Virtually all votes are guesses.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

It's simple. I like to vote based on supposition, I need to beleive that there is a good in game reason for a person to behave in that way, and then I;m comfortabel vating that way.

Saying you might be an evil duke is one thing, but providing context to that by illustraing how your behavior fits that statement is somehtign else entirely, and more convincing for me.

Note my vote is very risky. If you turn up the duke, I will have been the third vote on you, so I am putting myself out there, but I like Lathum;s reasoning, so here goes.

What reasoning? His reasoning is no more convincing that my reasoning? Its a coin flip, as I stated. There is no reasoning there that makes more sense one way or the other, so you're not following reasoning, you're following Lathum. Why?

[ntndeacon]

I think it is interesting that we are going so heavily after someone very likely to be good. I think that is a very bad decision and will not follow that lead. None of these folks are high on my list at the moment. Three of them I trust more than the other, so that is where my vote will go.

Vote Path

I will be around in about 30 min to discuss this but it is time to go home. So I will deal with any questions about it then.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

actualy your role is now useless to us.

I think killing you makes the most sense since we will wonder weather we can trust you the rest of the game. Plus it eliminates the possibility of killing a usefull role.

My ability is gone but having a GOOD role alive and voting is not worthless in any way. Why are you after me so badly Lathum? Why does it make MORE sense that I'm bad than Good?

Why, if I'm bad, has the real Persuader NOT come out and outed me? Either way I die, the BG protects the real one and you all get a head start on winning this. Lynch me and you'll be proven 1 of two things, a bad playmaker or a wolf trying to lynch away a villager that can be trusted.

Lynching me is WIN WIN for the wolves. They get rid of a CoT player and they kill another villager.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Anybody else ever notice that about yourselves?

I'd have to some day actually get to be a wolf to tell if it'd effect me or not. This is like my 6th or 7th game overall and still no wolf for me. I was almost the bodyguard once, but then cronin's game was reshuffled...

[path12]

Just got slammed with a project. Don't know how much I'll be around to defend myself, but you can count on a self-preservation from me, since I'm good and all.

[jeheinz72]

I'd have to agree, RendeR could be the beginning of a COT for us along with possible Claphamsa. Voting him off just seems silly to me. The numbers don't add up. The no-counter-reveal doesn't add up. The only one I could be persuaded to move to at this point would be path.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I think as a villager, I;m comfortabe taking more risks than as a wolf.

Let me try turning your own reasoning back at you here:

If what you say is true and players take more risks as villagers than as wolves:

What seems more likely? That I took the big risk in duling to ches as a good duke or as a bad one? Using the ability like that is a huge risk for the bad duke because it does exactly what we see here, it gets people coming after him. So based on your own theory, it would have been utterly stupid of me to use the ability so early without knowing that my target was worthwile.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

My ability is gone but having a GOOD role alive and voting is not worthless in any way. Why are you after me so badly Lathum? Why does it make MORE sense that I'm bad than Good?

Why, if I'm bad, has the real Persuader NOT come out and outed me? Either way I die, the BG protects the real one and you all get a head start on winning this. Lynch me and you'll be proven 1 of two things, a bad playmaker or a wolf trying to lynch away a villager that can be trusted.

Lynching me is WIN WIN for the wolves. They get rid of a CoT player and they kill another villager.

you can never be in a COT unless you are scanned and come up good.

There may not be a persuader for one. For another you are getting heat now. If I was the persuader I would wait to see if you are going to be lynched before I unneccesaraly outed myself.

Not to mention IMO if someone came out as the real persuader we are all going to vote for them anyway and they would duke to you. So what's the point?

it seems like you are trying to bait someone into revealing something.

It is possible I am wrong but if I am so be it. You are essentialy dead weight at this point.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I'd have to agree, RendeR could be the beginning of a COT for us along with possible Claphamsa. Voting him off just seems silly to me. The numbers don't add up. The no-counter-reveal doesn't add up. The only one I could be persuaded to move to at this point would be path.

there is no way I will trust Render unless the seer clears him

[PurdueBrad]

Here is the current vote tally (as of post 495):

Path12 (3)- Claphamsa (422), SnDvls (462), ntndeacon (489)
RendeR (3)- Barkeep49 (421), Lathum (465), Anxiety (476)
Barkeep49 (2)- Telle (455), jeheinz72 (479)
Lathum (1)- Passacaglia (453)

Not voted: Path12, RendeR

I'm now out for about two hours, have fun...

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

there is no way I will trust Render unless the seer clears him

Explain this, You have NO real reason beyond a gut feeling here. you have a 0/50 shot at being right and I hate to break it to you, but yer wrong, again, about me.

Why do you always have a stick up the butt about me? You drive votes against me constantly, and you've never been right?

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Anybody else ever notice that about yourselves?

ask me in a year! Ive never been a wolf

[RendeR]

*takes a breath* *sighs* anyway. Beyond lathum's personel death warrent for me, why are the rest of your voting for what is normally a trusted role? The simple possibility that there is an evil opposite? Or is there some real evidence?

Come on people, stop following Lathum's coattails like well beaten dogs. Give pepole some validation for taking out a good role villager!

If the seer scans me, how are they supposed to get that info to YOU Lathum? I'm all for it, but I want you to stop this attempt to OUT the seer by demanding that its the only way you'll trust me. Talk about wolfish. Others have bad vibes about you, but this really makes my skin crawl.