Ongoing pro/college basketball thread (2023-24)

[Ksyrup]

I've been watching a montage of Clark taking shot after shot and then saw this:

CC accepting ROTY at the end of the season pic.twitter.com/DjJLuk3lIi

— 𝓜𝓪𝓻 (@Cait22fever) May 31, 2024

[cuervo72]

This also explains why “most free throw attempts by a rookie” is essentially a list of players who were expected to be generational talents

It also explains why CAREER free throw attempts is a list of some the fiercest, toughest competitors of all time…

And Dwight Howard pic.twitter.com/JqHB7OeHgl

— Michael Harriot (@michaelharriot) June 2, 2024

[Ksyrup]

I can't believe they shut down the NBA for a week before the finals. Ridiculous.

[miami_fan]

By they, I am guessing you mean the Mavs and the Celtics?

[Ksyrup]

They play when the league tells them to play.

The whole NBA playoffs is weird to me based on timing because I just spent 2 weeks in the UK so I saw zero basketball. I missed the entire conference finals. Now I'm back and the finals start a week later. I feel like a new season should be starting more than the finals should be happening.

[stevew]

The gap in the NBA finals happens every once in awhile. Pretty sure 2015/2017 both had huge gaps. I do think the league should have a contingency plan to at least move it up to Tuesday instead of Thursday but it is what it is.

[Swaggs]

It's somewhat surprising they don't hold the lottery and/or announce the award winners during this time. I don't think either would be enough to take away from the conference finals, if they went the distance.

[Arles]

It hasn't helped that this has been probably the least compelling and competitive NBA playoffs in a long time. 7 of the series have been 4-0 or 4-1. I'll check in for the finals, but this is by far the lowest amount of NBA playoffs I've ever watched. The jack 3s style with blowouts all over the place just isn't interesting.

[Jas_lov]

I don't understand why they can't move the games up in this scenario. They say its for planning but if both conference finals went 7 games they would only have a few days to plan. Then they have this stupid Thursday-Sunday-Wednesday schedule for Games 1-3 of the finals. There's nothing else on in the summer so why not just play every other day.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The last game of any conference finals was Thu May 30, right?
They resume Thu Jun 6, right?

That's a week of downtime.

That's one day different than the schedule for starting the Stanley Cup finals.
Is that one extra day THAT big a deal?

I prefer the "when things can reasonably start, they start" model of old, but this isn't just an NBA thing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Arles

It hasn't helped that this has been probably the least compelling and competitive NBA playoffs in a long time. 7 of the series have been 4-0 or 4-1.

Not really THAT different than recent years tho, is it?

Number of 0 or 1 win losers prior to the Finals in recent years
(starting with last year)

6(2023) ,6, 5, 6, 8, 8.8, 6, 7,4 (2019)

So counting this season, half of the last 10 years have had either 7 or 8 series that weren't close. This is pretty much the norm.

And there's also the typical number of 7 game series this season (3) over the past decade.

This is what the NBA has been in terms of post-season competitiveness for a decade.

[Arles]

Yeah, that's not great. I also think having Giannis, KD, EMbiid, Lebron & Steph all out after the first round (and Jokic out by the next one) really hurt the star power too.

[albionmoonlight]

Anecdotally, it certainly feels like there were more 7-game series back in the 80s and 90s.

Maybe with better coaching/analytics, the better team in a series is just too good now.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

I don't understand why they can't move the games up in this scenario. They say its for planning but if both conference finals went 7 games they would only have a few days to plan. Then they have this stupid Thursday-Sunday-Wednesday schedule for Games 1-3 of the finals. There's nothing else on in the summer so why not just play every other day.

Who is gonna tell the owners of these arenas not to schedule other events during the conference finals to make sure the arenas are available just in case they have to move up the finals?

I am pretty sure there was a concert on the same night and time as Game 6 of the West finals in the same arena. I know they could change times etc. but still. The calendar for some of these venues have very little flexibility in them.

[cartman]

Also there is a lot of overlap with NBA and NHL teams in the same arena.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Anecdotally, it certainly feels like there were more 7-game series back in the 80s and 90s.

Maybe with better coaching/analytics, the better team in a series is just too good now.

Well you just had to know that was gonna punch my curiosity button lol

This will be a little misleading perhaps however, because first round was best of five until 2003. Also, only 6 teams in each conference made the playoffs until 1984

1980s, number of 7 game series by year
1,4,1,0,2, 0,1,2,4,0 = 1.5 avg/yr

1990s, number of 7 game series by year
2,0,2,2,5,3,1,2,1,0 = 1.8 avg/yr

Okay, to try to compensate toward apples/apples, I'm only going to count 7 game series after the first round for the newer decades, since those couldn't exist in the first round in the 80s/90s

2000s, number of 7 game series by year
2,3,1,1,2,2,3,0,2,2 = 1.8 avg/yr

2010s, number of 7 game series by year
1,1,2,2,0, 1,3,1,2,2 = 1.5 avg/yr

2020s, number of 7 game series by year
2,2,3,2, 2 (so far) = 2.2 avg/yr

So actually pretty consistent, with an uptick in the past 5 years.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Arles

Yeah, that's not great. I also think having Giannis, KD, EMbiid, Lebron & Steph all out after the first round (and Jokic out by the next one) really hurt the star power too.

Giannis- 29 years old, 10th year in the league
KD-35, 15th
Embiid- 30, 7th
Lebron- 39, 20th
Steph- 36, 14th
Jokic- 29, 8th

I am not rushing these guys out the door just yet but it will be nice to have casual fans getting to know guys like Tatum, Luka, Ant, etc. this postseason.

[GrantDawg]

Dan Hurley didn't leave for Kentucky, but the Lakers?.....

BREAKING: The Los Angeles Lakers are targeting Connecticut’s Dan Hurley to become the franchise’s next coach and are preparing a massive, long-term contract offer to bring the back-to-back national champion to the NBA, sources tell ESPN. pic.twitter.com/6WPrigPvAW

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) June 6, 2024

[Ksyrup]

Funny, as everything I saw just yesterday was preparing for JJ Redick to get the job once the finals were over.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Funny, as everything I saw just yesterday was preparing for JJ Redick to get the job once the finals were over.

Nothing has happened yet, but Hurley did inform the team that he is in talks with the Lakers. At least he is not sneaking it up on them. Reports are that he has been in talks with them for awhile now. He might still back out if hasn't agreed yet. I can see why he might be hesitant just as much as I can see why it is a tempting offer. They talk like they are throwing a Brinks truck at him.

[SirFozzie]

This video is the closest thing we'll get to non-XXX rated basketball porn.

Blocked

[flere-imsaho]

At one point in the first quarter it certainly felt like that, though.

[GrantDawg]

I just found out people call Caitlin Clark "Ponytail Pete," and I kind of love it.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I just found out people call Caitlin Clark "Ponytail Pete," and I kind of love it.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

I hadn't heard that one but, yeah, it works pretty good

[Ksyrup]

Hurley staying at UConn.

After hearing that LA was planning a huge long-term offer, ESPN says he turned down 6 years, $70M. My only question is, what took him so long? THAT's a "breaking the bank" offer?!

[stevew]

That’s not even a good offer. Hey bro we need you to take less than Monty Williams(who sucks )

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Hurley staying at UConn.

After hearing that LA was planning a huge long-term offer, ESPN says he turned down 6 years, $70M. My only question is, what took him so long? THAT's a "breaking the bank" offer?!

I was reading $18 mil per and over $100 mil in total value was the expected offer. That would have been difficult to turn down. 6 years and $70 mil made it easy to say no.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Hurley staying at UConn.

After hearing that LA was planning a huge long-term offer, ESPN says he turned down 6 years, $70M. My only question is, what took him so long? THAT's a "breaking the bank" offer?!

Especially not when Ballmer just gave Ty Lue $14 mil to coach the Clippers.

Can the Buss family afford $18 mil per year for a head coach? The family’s net worth is like $700 mil and that is all from owning the Lakers reportedly. Not paupers by any means but evidently they have the lowest net worth among NBA owners. I read that Todd Boehly and Mark Walter own minority shares in the Lakers. I know little about Walter but from his time at Chelsea, Boehly does not appear to be a guy who is giving a head coach $18 million without more of a controlling interest in the organization overall.

[GrantDawg]

https://www.theonion.com/the-onion-s...ark-1851529041

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[stevew]

I guess I’m living under a rock, but I didn’t know that Dan Hurley was related to Bobby Hurley until literally about 30 seconds ago

[miami_fan]

I know I had jokes last year but full credit to Joey M. and his offensive system. The Celtics are just getting easy shot after easy shot.

[SirFozzie]

Not over yet (The Celtics themselves forced a game seven down 3-0), but almost there.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I know I had jokes last year but full credit to Joey M. and his offensive system. The Celtics are just getting easy shot after easy shot.

They are just abusing Luka in their sets. Going at him on almost every play and Luka's defense has been exposed.

[SirFozzie]

Blocked

Windhorst goes OFF on Luka for 90 seconds. SO much so that SVP didn't need to ask Windhorst to clarify/expand or create discussion.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They are just abusing Luka in their sets. Going at him on almost every play and Luka's defense has been exposed.

They did a lot of that especially in the second half. It was beyond that though. Other than the eight minutes in the fourth quarter when the Celtics did not run offense sets being up twenty, every possession ended in a quality shot from a person who could hit the shot that was taken. Every possession came to a logical conclusion. Conversely, three out of every four Mavs possession looked like Luka and Kyrie were competing in a Olympic level game of HORSE where you got extra points for shot difficulty.

Luka deserves all the criticism. That was just a childish performance last night and not just from a maturity standpoint.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They are just abusing Luka in their sets. Going at him on almost every play and Luka's defense has been exposed.

This is a serious, not sarcastic, question, because I'm not exactly an expert on the NBA, but has there been a championship whose star player disdained playing defense like Luka has/does? I mean, was Curry similar and they had to hide him on defense?

I'm thinking of guys like LeBron and Jordan and they certainly locked down people on defense when push came to shove.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

This is a serious, not sarcastic, question, because I'm not exactly an expert on the NBA, but has there been a championship whose star player disdained playing defense like Luka has/does? I mean, was Curry similar and they had to hide him on defense?

I'm thinking of guys like LeBron and Jordan and they certainly locked down people on defense when push came to shove.

The Warriors did hide Steph on defense during certain points of their run. But hiding Steph meant putting him to guard Matthew Dellavedova, or a George Hill, or even in the most recent title season a Marcus Smart. Not to mention, having prime Klay, Draymond and guys like Iguodala and Wiggins around him made things easier.

I don't think Luka has a disdain for playing defense. I don't think he is good at it. I don't think he is ever going to be capable of being a lock down defender like a Lebron(?) or Jordan. He has definitely improved defensively both on ball and off but he needs to improve even more. Given everything that is expected offensively (whether he should still have that heavy offensive responsibility should be looked into) Luka can't be expected to lock anyone up defensively. But still, he was pretty good defensively throughout the playoffs. The issue is he does not give a consistent effort on the defensive end.

That being said, this is the worst match up for Luka defensively. He can't guard any of the Celtic starters consistently even if he made the sacrifice at the offensive end. He does not have that sort of athleticism IMO. Best case scenario would be for Luka to take Horford on the defensive end and dare the Celtics to make Horford the offensive focus. When he is left on an island against Tatum, Brown, Holliday or even White, Luka is food. The Celtics don't have a Harden or a KAT who on 40% of the offensive possessions their team plays will just stand on the three point line and never move which would allow Luka to rest on the defensive end.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

This is a serious, not sarcastic, question, because I'm not exactly an expert on the NBA, but has there been a championship whose star player disdained playing defense like Luka has/does? I mean, was Curry similar and they had to hide him on defense?

I'm thinking of guys like LeBron and Jordan and they certainly locked down people on defense when push came to shove.

Magic was a pretty awful defender as well. Probably worse than Luka, honestly, when you consider he didn't have to defend the space today's players have to defend.

[rjolley]

My problem with Luka's game is that he puts his team at a serious disadvantage consistently with the constant complaining. Complaining about calls happens all the time, but the better players learn there's a time to just stop talking and take out your frustrations on the other team.

I agree with most of what Windhorst said last night. I sent a text to a friend of mine saying something similar after the game. For all the grief Irving can cause, when the game is on the line, he's locked in trying to make plays, not chatting with the refs, his teammates, or whoever else will listen about how a call was missed 5 plays ago.

Working the refs to get calls later on is one thing. Annoying the refs is another. And it's not like he doesn't get calls. But he's not getting ALL of the calls. No one does.

[SirFozzie]

someone talk ESPN/ABC Execs off the bridges.. 3-0 in the NBA finals, 3-0 in the NHL Finals.

They were expecting Finals Methadone, weaning us off, instead, they're getting Finals 8-Ball of Crack

[Ksyrup]

I've watched all 3 NHL games nearly in total. I've watched about 10 minutes of the NBA finals total.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I've watched about 10 minutes of the NBA finals total.

I don't think I've seen a single second of that live.

[miami_fan]

Joey M. needs to tell Tatum that he has no chance of winning the MVP. He is speeding down the Luka from Game 3 road.

[GrantDawg]

Angel Reese got a flagrant 1 call after hitting Caitlin Clark in the head as she was going up to the rim. Be ready for the right wing hot takes on what was a pretty standard basketball foul.
That said, it is surprising how much more I am enjoying watching the WNBA over the NBA.

[rjolley]

Watched a clip of the foul by Reese on Clark. It doesn't deserve the media attention it's getting. Reese went for a block from behind, missed, and hit Clark in the head. Flagrant 1 is the right call by the rule of the game. It's nothing more than that.

I get that Clark is the new toy that's going to save the WNBA but the exaggerated drama over physical play against Clark is annoying. She's going to get fouled. She's going to be played physically. The women's game isn't a polite game. The ladies play hard. Clark will adjust as will everyone else. Right now, she's a rookie that is being welcomed to the league.

[stevew]

Wow, second row Joe got it done.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Watched a clip of the foul by Reese on Clark. It doesn't deserve the media attention it's getting. Reese went for a block from behind, missed, and hit Clark in the head. Flagrant 1 is the right call by the rule of the game. It's nothing more than that.

I get that Clark is the new toy that's going to save the WNBA but the exaggerated drama over physical play against Clark is annoying. She's going to get fouled. She's going to be played physically. The women's game isn't a polite game. The ladies play hard. Clark will adjust as will everyone else. Right now, she's a rookie that is being welcomed to the league.

It has been interesting to see some of the debate about the on court physicality. I am surprised at how many people seem to have a similar viewpoint that I do. The WNBA allows too much physicality, the NBA does not allow enough physicality. If you put both leagues on the opposite ends of a NBA2K game slider for fouls, I am probably going to move the slider a click or two closer to the WNBA. I really despise the touch fouls and I have seen less than ten flops total for the entire season. All fouls in the WNBA and as we have spoken about women's and girls' basketball are of the proverbial playoff fouls variety.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Watched a clip of the foul by Reese on Clark. It doesn't deserve the media attention it's getting. Reese went for a block from behind, missed, and hit Clark in the head. Flagrant 1 is the right call by the rule of the game. It's nothing more than that.

I get that Clark is the new toy that's going to save the WNBA but the exaggerated drama over physical play against Clark is annoying. She's going to get fouled. She's going to be played physically. The women's game isn't a polite game. The ladies play hard. Clark will adjust as will everyone else. Right now, she's a rookie that is being welcomed to the league.

I keep seeing the news about a cheap shot on Clark, then I watch the clip and it's something that happens almost every night in the NBA. Reese deserved the Flagrant 1 but people are acting like this is Malone taking out Isaiah.

[JPhillips]

Clark won't get beaten up so much after she has a full year of pro-level weight training. She has no strength right now and gets tossed around like a child.

[miami_fan]

I would usually do this to make fun of the idea that Player X will be forever know as an NBA champion. Guys like Ish Smith and JaVale McGee being introduced as NBA champions for eternity is just hilarious.

However even though he did it with the Celtics, I gotta give a shout out to an underrated player and someone who has seemed like a really classy guy his entire career.

Al Horford, NBA Champion.