Werewolf XXXIX: The Lady of La Rochelle–GAME OVER.

[ntndeacon]

it is kinda unnerving too, since we have no idea of the special roles on the side of good in this game. Is there a seer? is there a bodyguard?what other roles could there be?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

The only flaw with this assessment is that you can turn down a duel. Theoretically there aren't any other guns out there for night engagement stuff, so if you're bad there's no real reason to say otherwise unless you're forseeing this exact scenario. And while it's possible there are guns out there at night, it's more likely to be someone just flat out shooting someone than a gunfight, because a gunfight requires more guns and is thus more complicated. I don't really buy this too much, although I have to admit it's possible.

Hmm.. maybe i misunderstand how things work. I'll explain how I think they work.. someone correct me if I'm wrong.

From reading the rules, my belief is when there is a duel (either challenge or due to no majority vote), it starts out with pistols, and then if that ends up with no death, it then goes to rapiers until someone dies.

Is this what everyone understood it to be as well, or am I incorrect here? Tyrith's post seems to indicate to me that he believes the pistols are only used in the challenge duels, but not in the ones that result if the vote ends up without a majority

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

to switch games on you a sec. wasn't there a character in the Tombstone game that had to accept a shootout if called on. The Dentist ithink. couldn't it be possible to have a hotheaded Cardinal guard who has to accept a duel, and couldn't that same guardsman suck at dueling?

Possible, but that's a lot of complications. Probably significantly safer to just hope it doesn't come up.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Alan T

From reading the rules, my belief is when there is a duel (either challenge or due to no majority vote), it starts out with pistols, and then if that ends up with no death, it then goes to rapiers until someone dies.

That's how I understand the duels will be carried out. Pistols first, then rapiers if needed.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Hmm.. maybe i misunderstand how things work. I'll explain how I think they work.. someone correct me if I'm wrong.

From reading the rules, my belief is when there is a duel (either challenge or due to no majority vote), it starts out with pistols, and then if that ends up with no death, it then goes to rapiers until someone dies.

Is this what everyone understood it to be as well, or am I incorrect here? Tyrith's post seems to indicate to me that he believes the pistols are only used in the challenge duels, but not in the ones that result if the vote ends up without a majority

Alan iread it that you don't have pistols for any night actions...werewolves or guardsmen might have in the night phase

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

to switch games on you a sec. wasn't there a character in the Tombstone game that had to accept a shootout if called on. The Dentist ithink. couldn't it be possible to have a hotheaded Cardinal guard who has to accept a duel, and couldn't that same guardsman suck at dueling?

No, in the tombstone game you didn't have to accept duels and no one had the ability to avoid one if I can remember correctly (without going back to my notes and looking). This game's duel system is obviously entirely different though, so perhaps that possibility lies here still however. Even though for normal duels you have to accept it regardless of who you are, so such a role would only kick in for the duels triggered via the vote.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Hmm.. maybe i misunderstand how things work. I'll explain how I think they work.. someone correct me if I'm wrong.

From reading the rules, my belief is when there is a duel (either challenge or due to no majority vote), it starts out with pistols, and then if that ends up with no death, it then goes to rapiers until someone dies.

Is this what everyone understood it to be as well, or am I incorrect here? Tyrith's post seems to indicate to me that he believes the pistols are only used in the challenge duels, but not in the ones that result if the vote ends up without a majority

I would assume that all duels work the same, but I don't know for sure.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Alan iread it that you don't have pistols for any night actions...werewolves or guardsmen might have in the night phase

I didn't say anything about night actions. I was talking entirely about the duels.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by the rules

Duels – M. Grenier has a matched pair of wheel lock dueling pistols. These will be primed and loaded before everyone’s eyes just prior to the duel. Each man will stand back to back and take ten paces. Upon the command of “fire”, each man will turn and fire his pistol at the other. If both men are still standing, they will draw rapiers and fight to 3rd blood. All duels will occur at the end of the day round.

.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I didn't say anything about night actions. I was talking entirely about the duels.

I know. But idid not read Tyrith's comment as how duels worked, rather about night actions.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Part of you has to hope it's coincidental in case he comes up good, because if he dies today and is good, what happens tomorrow?

I reread this a few times. I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Who are you talking about when you refer to if he comes up good, what happens tommorrow? The way you worded it made it sound like I would be in trouble if so... and I have no idea who you are talking about unless you mean Fouts.. and if he does die and ends up good, then I'll take my medicine for it.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I know. But idid not read Tyrith's comment as how duels worked, rather about night actions.

Ahh ok, his post was in reference to comments about the duels I had thought, so I assumed we were talking entirely about duels at that point. If he was talking about night actions then I have no clue what happens there.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I know. But idid not read Tyrith's comment as how duels worked, rather about night actions.

so basically iwas disagreeing with your reading of Tyrith's words.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I reread this a few times. I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Who are you talking about when you refer to if he comes up good, what happens tommorrow? The way you worded it made it sound like I would be in trouble if so... and I have no idea who you are talking about unless you mean Fouts.. and if he does die and ends up good, then I'll take my medicine for it.

It was more of a joke. If you've been on Izulde all weekend, and other people used it to vote for him, and he's good, it's one of those random things that occasionally gets used to blow up people. I have zero, repeat ZERO intention of voting for you tomorrow based off anything that happens because of this vote, but it was an interesting observation.

[Fouts]

I am an average dueler. I suppose it is possible that I could win in a duel, but I am not going to take that chance. I will not be dueling tonight.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Hmm.. maybe i misunderstand how things work. I'll explain how I think they work.. someone correct me if I'm wrong.

From reading the rules, my belief is when there is a duel (either challenge or due to no majority vote), it starts out with pistols, and then if that ends up with no death, it then goes to rapiers until someone dies.

Is this what everyone understood it to be as well, or am I incorrect here? Tyrith's post seems to indicate to me that he believes the pistols are only used in the challenge duels, but not in the ones that result if the vote ends up without a majority

No, but Izulde would have to have expected something like this if he was doing something like that to ward off being set up in a top-2 duel. Otherwise a comment like that is far, FAR more likely to get you killed than to actually save you. To summarize, I think it's much more likely that it was a true statement than some sort of fraud because of how complicated/counterproductive such a lie would be.

[Tyrith]

Fouts comments concern me. If he can duck a duel, then if there is a replacement dueler there is now a three way tie at 2 between cronin, dubb, and ntn. I'd like it if someone that doesn't have a vote on a leader right now could dump another vote into ntn so we don't set up duels that we don't want, on the off chance Fouts is hinting to us what's up.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

No, but Izulde would have to have expected something like this if he was doing something like that to ward off being set up in a top-2 duel. Otherwise a comment like that is far, FAR more likely to get you killed than to actually save you. To summarize, I think it's much more likely that it was a true statement than some sort of fraud because of how complicated/counterproductive such a lie would be.

I agree, which leads me to my original curiosity regarding the late run on Izulde to suddenly put him out to be "Fouts's killer".

Now the thing i am curious about is Fouts continously says he will not be dueling tonight, which seems like something pretty hard to bluff if you are forced to duel due to the lynch votes, so I'm guessing its indicative of a role special thing which means who knows what we will see.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Fouts

I will not be dueling tonight.

Why do you keep saying this? If no one has a majority, the top two vote getters duel. Is there something that would prevent you from doing so?

[Coffee Warlord]

Alright, back from dinner, catching up. I'm very curious as to why everyone seems hell bent on forcing a tie-vote duel today. Personally, I think it's a god awful idea.

Reason is very simple. I think logically (for game balance reasons), those with more powerful roles are likely gonna have less "martial" ability. I think if we force a duel, we're much more likely to lose someone with an important role.

[Alan T]

Just another random comment..

Fouts earlier on said things that would make him a very good day 1 lynch choice such as being nothing important, and it was fine if we wanted to vote for him.

I'm wondering if he has a role which will be able to be validated as good if put to the lynch and he is able to switch off the vote to a different dueler. All day long, he has been unconcerned about people voting for him which was one of the reasons I chose to stay on him. (If its no huge loss to lynch him, he's as good a gamble as any).

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Alright, back from dinner, catching up. I'm very curious as to why everyone seems hell bent on forcing a tie-vote duel today. Personally, I think it's a god awful idea.

Reason is very simple. I think logically (for game balance reasons), those with more powerful roles are likely gonna have less "martial" ability. I think if we force a duel, we're much more likely to lose someone with an important role.

I'm not one of the people who are pushing for the day 1 duel scenerio, so I can't speak for them. But if we need a majority vote, we need 11 votes for one person to avoid the day 1 duel. I don't honestly see that happening anywhere. So I am pretty sure those who want a day 1 duel will get it fairly easily.

[LoneStarGirl]

Okay, well I know Izulde is leading the vote count by 2, but I dont like that Fouts keeps saying he will not be dueling tonight...

unvote st cronin

vote fouts

[Coffee Warlord]

Well jesus, I did not parse that particular rule at ALL. Lordy.

[BrianD]

The reason people (including me) are pushing for a day 1 duel is because we don't really have a good person to vote for. We can bandwagon someone to get a lynch, or we can pick two people and let them fight. One of those people will probably be the person we would bandwagon anyway, so we are really only putting one additional person at risk. We also learn what the duels are like in case we need to make use of them in the future.

We might kill an important role with the duel, but we might also kill that role with a random bandwagon. I don't see any major downside to the duel.

[BrianD]

I'm a bit curious to see what will happen if Fouts is forced to duel, but I don't know if that is reason enough to vote for him.

[Tyrith]

Well, at least LSG's vote means cronin isn't going to be in the backup duel candidate pool for now. I would most like to have ntn be our spare warm body for Izulde's potential mauling, but dubb is better than cronin, I guess. More I just want to see happens with cronin when he becomes a priest....

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Okay, well I know Izulde is leading the vote count by 2, but I dont like that Fouts keeps saying he will not be dueling tonight...

unvote st cronin

vote fouts

Really. Now why don't you like it? You think a bad guy would be saying that? Are you sure you want to join the other 4 in voting for me?

[Coffee Warlord]

Fair enough, fair enough. I'm still not thrilled about it, but I totally agree we'll never get a majority consensus on day 1 (and almost never SHOULD on day 1).

I just greatly worry that we're gonna leave someone with a helpful role and shitty weapon skills out to dry if we keep forcing duels down the road.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Well, at least LSG's vote means cronin isn't going to be in the backup duel candidate pool for now. I would most like to have ntn be our spare warm body for Izulde's potential mauling, but dubb is better than cronin, I guess. More I just want to see happens with cronin when he becomes a priest....

I don't think we have to worry about a backup duel. If there is a reason Fouts can't duel, that probably means he can shift the duel to someone else. Or maybe he will refuse to duel and will just die. Either way, I doubt it would go to a third place person.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by BrianD

We might kill an important role with the duel, but we might also kill that role with a random bandwagon. I don't see any major downside to the duel.

I'm a bit worried about us killing an important role early, too. My thinking is that our important roles would be a bit on the quiet side. I don't think we'd see a seer type come out pointing at people accusing them right off the bat.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Fair enough, fair enough. I'm still not thrilled about it, but I totally agree we'll never get a majority consensus on day 1 (and almost never SHOULD on day 1).

I just greatly worry that we're gonna leave someone with a helpful role and shitty weapon skills out to dry if we keep forcing duels down the road.

Well to be fair, if someone is on the line in that situation, they should probably say so. We don't want to accidentally lose our seer or another important role as part of this showdown.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I don't think we have to worry about a backup duel. If there is a reason Fouts can't duel, that probably means he can shift the duel to someone else. Or maybe he will refuse to duel and will just die. Either way, I doubt it would go to a third place person.

I prefer to err on the side of caution, although I agree with you.

[Fouts]

unvote Izulde
vote Dubb

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Fair enough, fair enough. I'm still not thrilled about it, but I totally agree we'll never get a majority consensus on day 1 (and almost never SHOULD on day 1).

I just greatly worry that we're gonna leave someone with a helpful role and shitty weapon skills out to dry if we keep forcing duels down the road.

I would assume going forward that we'll find reasons for people to lynch and won't need to worry about a duel.

[Fouts]

Both Izulde and Dubb claim to be superior at duels. Lets see how good they really are.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well to be fair, if someone is on the line in that situation, they should probably say so. We don't want to accidentally lose our seer or another important role as part of this showdown.

Which is another cause of concern. Obviously if you've got shit combat ratings, you know it, and you're not gonna want to dual. Which in turn could force some pre-mature role reveals that should be kept quiet until it's time.

[Grammaticus]

I would have thought we learned this in prior games, but in all fairness:

Being a priest is one form of status in the period. For this game that angle was potentially given to both CG and Musketeers. So if you are using the book, just know it was a dice roll in this game and not a faction thing. It actually could go either way.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

I would have thought we learned this in prior games, but in all fairness:

Being a priest is one form of status in the period. For this game that angle was potentially given to both CG and Musketeers. So if you are using the book, just know it was a dice roll in this game and not a faction thing. It actually could go either way.

Thank you.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Which is another cause of concern. Obviously if you've got shit combat ratings, you know it, and you're not gonna want to dual. Which in turn could force some pre-mature role reveals that should be kept quiet until it's time.

By no means do we want people to reveal pre-maturely. However if someone is on the line to die, and are a role we really dont want to see lost, they really should say so. At least give the bodyguard a chance to keep them around a little while longer.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Alan T

By no means do we want people to reveal pre-maturely. However if someone is on the line to die, and are a role we really dont want to see lost, they really should say so. At least give the bodyguard a chance to keep them around a little while longer.

No arguments from me there. I'm more pointing out my concerns for future days with the dueling system. And while we WILL get more evidence in later days, how often do we really, truly have a consensus on voting? I can count the number of times (in games I've been involved in) we've had a clear cut full majority lynch candidate on one hand. In this game, that could cost us severely.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

No arguments from me there. I'm more pointing out my concerns for future days with the dueling system. And while we WILL get more evidence in later days, how often do we really, truly have a consensus on voting? I can count the number of times (in games I've been involved in) we've had a clear cut full majority lynch candidate on one hand. In this game, that could cost us severely.

It's annoying, and it wrecks voting records somewhat, but we managed alright in Resident Evil a couple of games ago with the same rule.

[SnDvls]

do I still have time to vote?

anyone have a quick vote count?

[Coffee Warlord]

Deadline isn't till 10pm EST. Plenty of time.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

do I still have time to vote?

anyone have a quick vote count?

(5) Izulde - Path (412), Hoopsguy (421), St.cronin (426), Ntndeacon (434), Mr.Wednesday (439)
(5) Fouts - ChiefRum (194), Alan (261), Jonathan (264), Izulde (314), Lonestargirl (473)
(3) Dubb - Barkeep (120), Lathum (160), Fouts (484)
(2) Ntndeacon - Tyrith (301), DaddyTorgo (310).
(1) St.cronin - Anxiety (209)
(1) Lonestargirl - Blade (273)
(1) Hoopsguy - Coffee Warlord (271)
(1) Tyrith - Dubb (378)

No vote: Sndvls, BrianD

[SnDvls]

ok thanks...now anyone got a vote breakdown I'm trying to read the 4-5 new pages for today now.

[SnDvls]

ah thanks

[SnDvls]

looks like I'm breaking the tie and I'm in a no win situation for it.

[hoopsguy]

I'm a little weirded out by the quick run on Izulde after I put a vote there.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

looks like I'm breaking the tie and I'm in a no win situation for it.

Keep in mind the different voting rules. So breaking a tie isnt necessarily breaking a tie. Your vote does obviously have a big impact on how things will turn out though, but such is the risk of voting late in the day.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm a little weirded out by the quick run on Izulde after I put a vote there.

To be fair, you wern't the first vote. Path started it, followed by you and others really quickly But yes, that weirded me out too