Alright boyz, it's the BBCF First Impressions thread.

[I. J. Reilly]

Question for those who have been calling their own plays:
Can you set up the defense? Or does the success of an offensive play simply depend on personnel and the defense called? If I’ve had success running the ball, can I assume that the safeties will be cheating up and more likely to bite on play action?
Any impute on this would be appreciated.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Another bizarre game log. Apparently you get a mulligan when your QB is sacked in the endzone:

Penn State ball, Q4, 2-10-PNST1 (00:27) 3-14
Offense: Long Pass, Set: Shotgun, Play: SG-FL-playact-in
Defense: Stop Run, Set: 3-4, Play: 34-run-SZ
QB R. Cross gets sacked for a 10 yard loss (DT M. McWilliams).

Penn State ball, Q4, 2-10-PNST1 (00:20) 3-14
Offense: Long Pass, Set: Shotgun, Play: SG-FL-playact-in
Defense: Stop Run, Set: 3-4, Play: 34-run-SZ
The ball carrier gets tackled in the endzone for a safety!

This is just the display. For a safety, there are two lines - one is the actual play (started at 27 seconds). The next is line for the safety (once it occured) - but it's for the same play. The better way would have been to simply state the safety as part of the gamelog for the sack instead of breaking it up into two lines. But, you can see its the same play as the offensive and defensive plays are the same in both lines. That, combined with the sack taking only 7 seconds, shows that it's simply repeating the current play information when informing you about the safety.

[digamma]

One other minor complaint...

Two point logic may also be a bit off.

I scored to go up by 11 in the fourth quarter. We went for two instead of kicking the field goal to go up by 12. The two point conversion was no good, so I was left with an 11 point lead and the possibility that a touch down and field goal could still tie.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

Question for those who have been calling their own plays:
Can you set up the defense? Or does the success of an offensive play simply depend on personnel and the defense called? If I’ve had success running the ball, can I assume that the safeties will be cheating up and more likely to bite on play action?
Any impute on this would be appreciated.

i have no hard and fast proof of this, but this does seem to be the case from what i've seen

[Arles]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

I'm not sure I'm grasping timeout usage. Once you call one (and say "Ok" to the subsequent pop-up), does the AI then apply the timeout only after the next play?

Perhaps I'm just not understanding it correctly, but it seems like timeouts are occurring in a strange and rather unmanageable fashion.

The way timeouts work is they will eliminate the time between plays. So, if you have a long run, then call a TO, you will always lose the time the play took but there will not be any additional timeout after the play. If you call timeout before the next play, the time difference will be less than it coud have been.

Here's an example:

A long passing play would actually take 20 seconds + 15 seconds to huddle/get to the LOS and run the next play if you didn't call timeout.

If you did call timeout before you called your next play, it would instead take only 20 seconds. So, for timeouts, you just need to call them before you call your next play to ensure they happen.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Arles

The way timeouts work is they will eliminate the time between plays. So, if you have a long run, then call a TO, you will always lose the time the play took but there will not be any additional timeout after the play. If you call timeout before the next play, the time difference will be less than it coud have been.

Here's an example:

A long passing play would actually take 20 seconds + 15 seconds to huddle/get to the LOS and run the next play if you didn't call timeout.

If you did call timeout before you called your next play, it would instead take only 20 seconds. So, for timeouts, you just need to call them before you call your next play to ensure they happen.

ugh but what if the next play turns out to be an incomplete pass, and now I have wasted a TO to "make sure it happens".

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

ugh but what if the next play turns out to be an incomplete pass, and now I have wasted a TO to "make sure it happens".

true! this is worrisome. could we get some sort of "check" injected where if the play was an incomplete pass or a run out of bounds then the TO wouldn't be used?

[Arles]

That's not right. You watch the play and it's a 25 yard pass in the middle of the field. If we assume that took 12 seconds from the snap to the point where he was tackled, then 12 seconds are off the clock no matter what. But, if you call timeout BEFORE calling your next play, no additional time will run off.

So, if you did not call timeout, you would have the 12 seconds plus maybe another 14 to get the play in and run up to the line. That would be a runoff of 26 seconds before the next play. If you instead called timeout before calling your next play, the runoff would only be 12 seconds and you would have saved yourself 14 seconds.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Arles

That's not right. You watch the play and it's a 25 yard pass in the middle of the field. If we assume that took 12 seconds from the snap to the point where he was tackled, then 12 seconds are off the clock no matter what. But, if you call timeout BEFORE calling your next play, no additional time will run off.

So, if you did not call timeout, you would have the 12 seconds plus maybe another 14 to get the *INSERT* NEXT (?) play in and run up to the line. That would be a runoff of 26 seconds before the next play. If you instead called timeout before calling your next play, the runoff would only be 12 seconds and you would have saved yourself 14 seconds.

okay wait. this is REALLY confusing to me.

so if i call a pass play and it's complete to the middle of the field and THEN i call timeout right after the play, the only time that comes off the clock before the next play begins is the time for that pass play right?

i think maybe we're all talking about the same thing in different terms here?

edit: see my edited insertion...did you leave a word out there Arles?

[WSUCougar]

Thanks for the explanation, Arlie. But I guess the weird part for me is that I call a timeout and there's a delayed response; a play runs and then the timeout comes off the board, without any further indication.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by digamma

End of game logic may be a bit off. I've had two games in a row where I've tried a 55+ yard field goal with more than ten seconds left.

One with :10 left and two time outs.

One with :19 left and no time outs.

In both cases, I think I'd rather try to get closer with one play (or even two with :19 left) before trying the desperation field goal with my average kicker.

Given the rate of success on kicks, even with an average kicker, I'd stunned if you didn't make at least one if not both of those.

I haven't had a chance to dig into the demo post-patch, but end of game and timing issues were a pretty high concern of me pre-patch, and I think there is some more work to do.

Todd -- Based on Missouri's prestige, it should be fairly easy to get every non-BCS team to come play you at home and even the bottom feeders of the BCS. It would be more difficult to get a Florida-type prestige team to come play you. I do however think it's a bit too easy to schedule home games with similar prestige teams without a home-and-home setup.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Given the rate of success on kicks, even with an average kicker, I'd stunned if you didn't make at least one if not both of those.

I haven't had a chance to dig into the demo post-patch, but end of game and timing issues were a pretty high concern of me pre-patch, and I think there is some more work to do.

Todd -- Based on Missouri's prestige, it should be fairly easy to get every non-BCS team to come play you at home and even the bottom feeders of the BCS. It would be more difficult to get a Florida-type prestige team to come play you. I do however think it's a bit too easy to schedule home games with similar prestige teams without a home-and-home setup.

Yes, I guess I'm looking at real life and coming from TCY. I mean if Missouri could have the schedule I have right now and all those yummy home games... I would agree I thought a home and home should have happened.

I'll take them though.. heck just about lost to the Zips in the home opener.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

okay wait. this is REALLY confusing to me.

so if i call a pass play and it's complete to the middle of the field and THEN i call timeout right after the play, the only time that comes off the clock before the next play begins is the time for that pass play right?

That is correct.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Arles

That is correct.

okay. then i think there was some wording confusion earlier in the thread.

off to play now.

*just finished taking BC to 11-2, a #6 BCS ranking and a Peach Bowl victory over Auburn in his 3rd year*

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Thanks for the explanation, Arlie. But I guess the weird part for me is that I call a timeout and there's a delayed response; a play runs and then the timeout comes off the board, without any further indication.

I see how Arlie is explaining it now, but you're right -- that is very confusing. He's saying essential the timeout is applied to the play correctly, but it doesn't show up as called until after the next play is run. I wouldn't have gathered that either.

Here's an example I posted earlier:

Arkansas State Timeout!

Kansas State ball, Q4, 1-10-ARKS30 (00:41) 33-27
Offense: Inside Run, Set: Shotgun, Play: SG-HB-draw-C
Defense: Stop Run, Set: 4-3, Play: 43-run-SZ-B5
RB M. Teresa runs right tackle for 1 yard (OLB R. Wetnight).

Arkansas State Timeout!

Kansas State ball, Q4, 2-9-ARKS29 (00:32) 33-27
Offense: Inside Run, Set: Quads, Play: Q-HB-pitch-LG
Defense: Normal, Set: 4-3, Play: 43-norm-TMan
RB N. Jimoh runs left tackle for 6 yards He fumbles the ball after a hit by J. McClellion.
It's recovered by D. Lepsis of Arkansas State. He returns it 0 yards to the Arkansas State 23.

Arkansas State Timeout!

Arkansas State ball, Q4, 1-10-ARKS23 (00:24) 27-33
Offense: Short Pass, Set: Shotgun, Play: SG-HB-screen
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: Dime, Play: Dime-pass-MZ-B6,8,11
QB K. Gibson completes a 6 yard screen to RB L. Darnall (SS V. Strock).

Arkansas State ball, Q4, 1-10-ARKS23 (00:16) 27-33
Offense: Short Pass, Set: Shotgun, Play: SG-HB-screen
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: Dime, Play: Dime-pass-MZ-B6,8,11
The QB spikes the ball to stop the clock!

Arkansas State ball, Q4, 3-4-ARKS29 (00:16) 27-33
Offense: Medium Pass, Set: Quads, Play: Q-WR3-ins
Defense: Stop Pass, Set: Nickel, Play: Nickel-pass-Man-B5,6
QB K. Gibson completes a 22 yard in to WR D. Nimmo (CB B. Ortego, FS C. Bjornson).

Arkansas State ball, Q4, 1-10-KSU49 (00:04) 27-33
Offense: Medium Pass, Set: Shotgun, Play: SG-SE-outs
Defense: Normal, Set: 4-4, Play: 44-norm-Man-B6
QB K. Gibson completes a 1 yard post to WR M. Ashton (ILB A. McFadden).

Arkansas State ball, Q4, 1-10-KSU49 (00:00) 27-33
Offense: Medium Pass, Set: Shotgun, Play: SG-SE-outs
Defense: Normal, Set: 4-4, Play: 44-norm-Man-B6
The QB spikes the ball to stop the clock!

So Arlie is saying the the first Arkansas State time out actually occurred BEFORE the play not listed, not after. Then the second timeout occurred BEFORE Teresa ran for one yard, and the third timoue out occurred BEFORE the fumble. Is that correct?

That would explain what most of us perceived as a bug with timeouts. It's not a "bug," but a very awkwardly structured use of timeouts in the PBP.

I still don't understand the final play of the game. Is this a factor of the way the game structures timeouts? With 4 seconds left, we pass for one yard and then with no time on the clock spike the ball, but the setup says it's still 1st and 10 on the 49.

Is this like the safety PBP, where this play didn't really happen and is a continuation of the previous play? Color me confused.

[John Galt]

Ugggh. Going into my 3rd season, I have another one of those repeatable CTD. I can't send the file to Arlie (the saves are too big for me to email), so my career is again dead. At the very least this game needs a "save as" function so I don't overwrite my saved games every time. Manual backup is too tedious given the necessity of saving often. Either way, though, the career-ending instability just sucks.

[wbatl1]

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
3rd time this afternoon the game locks up during recruiting...I cannot get past recruiting becase the game locks up when a diologue box appears...anyone seen this?...any suggestions Arlie?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Ugggh. Going into my 3rd season, I have another one of those repeatable CTD. I can't send the file to Arlie (the saves are too big for me to email), so my career is again dead. At the very least this game needs a "save as" function so I don't overwrite my saved games every time. Manual backup is too tedious given the necessity of saving often. Either way, though, the career-ending instability just sucks.

It has a "Save As" type function. Just change the name of your save under "Game Options" or whatever it is, and resave. Also, your savename.old file is a backup from your last save. Change the extention to .sav and you should be ready to roll.

A side note, though: is it system variety that is causing some people to have serious stability problems? I ran countless long-term sims, have played nearly 10 seasons of a serious career, and have gone through variuos stages multiple times in testing stuff, and I've not once had a CTD or a lockup. I've had RTE's at times, but never a CTD or lockup. Is it just me, or is it strange that a text sim would behave this way.

[Eaglesfan27]

One thing that I would like to see added (I don't believe it is there, but could have missed it) is some indication either on the roster screen or in the injury email when a guy becomes 100% healthy again. I was keeping track of this manually, but after the RTE, I'm finding determining who was injured but is now healthy the most tedious thing to re-track.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

It has a "Save As" type function. Just change the name of your save under "Game Options" or whatever it is, and resave. Also, your savename.old file is a backup from your last save. Change the extention to .sav and you should be ready to roll.

A side note, though: is it system variety that is causing some people to have serious stability problems? I ran countless long-term sims, have played nearly 10 seasons of a serious career, and have gone through variuos stages multiple times in testing stuff, and I've not once had a CTD or a lockup. I've had RTE's at times, but never a CTD or lockup. Is it just me, or is it strange that a text sim would behave this way.

Thanks for the help with the "save as." As for the crashes, every one I've had has occurred during recruiting advancing between weeks. The crashes are repeatable too (so my career effectively ends). So, I don't think it is system related. And for me, the crashes don't return an error message - the game just closes and I return to the desktop.

[wbatl1]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

A side note, though: is it system variety that is causing some people to have serious stability problems? I ran countless long-term sims, have played nearly 10 seasons of a serious career, and have gone through variuos stages multiple times in testing stuff, and I've not once had a CTD or a lockup. I've had RTE's at times, but never a CTD or lockup. Is it just me, or is it strange that a text sim would behave this way.

Thats why I'm so suprised about my lock-ups...with so many people seemingly running fine careers, I have no idea why I can't get through the first season's recruiting.

[ScottVib]

A lot of the recruiting issues I've seen reported seem to be impacting people who have very large recruiting watch lists.

This is something we are looking further into.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by ScottVib

A lot of the recruiting issues I've seen reported seem to be impacting people who have very large recruiting watch lists.

This is something we are looking further into.

I usually have quite a large watch list. I'll try reloading one of my games and deleting a ton of the list and see if it survives.

[Ben E Lou]

How many would be considered "large?"

[muns]

Thanks for that update scott, its apperciated

Skydog my list usually consists of around 40-50 guys being scouted when it crashes.

Edit- playing with Miami

MUNS

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

How many would be considered "large?"

When playing a good team, I usually put every player with a 2.0+ GPA, 3*+, with an interest over 5 on my watch list. I may also add more if I have a particular need and very few players on my watch list to fill it.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by muns

Thanks for that update scott, its apperciated

Skydog my list usually consists of around 40-50 guys being scouted when it crashes

MUNS

I would definitely not consider that 'large'.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by ScottVib

A lot of the recruiting issues I've seen reported seem to be impacting people who have very large recruiting watch lists.

This is something we are looking further into.

FWIW, I eliminated half of my list in a saved game and it still crashed going into week 12.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by John Galt

I usually put every player with a 2.0+ GPA, 3*+, with an interest over 5 on my watch list.

[DaddyTorgo]

do you find guys with 6/7 intrest actually coming to your school?? I've never even gone after guys under 8, and only had intermittent success there.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

do you find guys with 6/7 intrest actually coming to your school?? I've never even gone after guys under 8, and only had intermittent success there.

I have had a 6 commit once. I think it was because he may have lost/not had other offers and I was decimated at his position (CB)

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I have had a 6 commit once. I think it was because he may have lost/not had other offers and I was decimated at his position (CB)

okay. so i'm not missing out on anything by not recruiting them. i think i might have had a 7 come once after pouring a ton of money into him and it being real late in the process

[digamma]

Strange to me that the suggestions for offensive and defensive strategies change with more than one click of the suggest button--kind of like a pitcher shaking off a sign, I guess.

[wbatl1]

MY watch list was around 50 players each time it locked-up...if that qualifies as very large I will try again with a smaller watch list...

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by digamma

Strange to me that the suggestions for offensive and defensive strategies change with more than one click of the suggest button--kind of like a pitcher shaking off a sign, I guess.

Yeah, that bugs me, but apparently it doesn't bug Arlie.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

One thing that I would like to see added (I don't believe it is there, but could have missed it) is some indication either on the roster screen or in the injury email when a guy becomes 100% healthy again. I was keeping track of this manually, but after the RTE, I'm finding determining who was injured but is now healthy the most tedious thing to re-track.

I agree there should be a little more feedback when guys are 100% healthy and also when they are reinjuried or more severly injured. Whena RB is probable with a contussion for 0-2 weeks and plays gets hurt and is now listed as 6-8 weeks witha fracture and doubtful that is good but it is buried on the player card. The email of injuries is alittle vague as far as explanation of injuries ie john smith is hampered by an contussion and we should let him sit one more week and then next week john smith is not 100% and couldn't play at 100%. Those two descriptions are not very clear IMHO. It woulb be great to have the injury rating doubtful probaly etc and length 2-3 weeks or whatever on a seperate email,reprot or screen. I have found with the level of injuries this is really needed. I like how it is handled in TPB 2005 frankly.

[Raiders Army]

BBCF has reawakened my interest in FOF. Other than that, I bought it, but haven't gotten past week 1 in the offseason.

[digamma]

Sorry for all of the little bug/nuance posts. I do like the game, but here's one more:

Georgia Tech ball, Q1, 4-1-GT29 (11:15) 0-0 Offense: Inside Run, Set: Goal Line, Play: GL-QB-sneak-RG Defense: Stop Pass, Set: 4-3, Play: 43-pass-TMan RB gets the ball from QB Alonzo Klecko. He stumbles and regains his balance, just in time for OLB Bill Glover to drive him into the ground.GT: Loss of 2 on the play.

My guess is that it's just a PBP error, but on a QB sneak, I shouldn't be handing it to a no-named running back.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I agree there should be a little more feedback when guys are 100% healthy and also when they are reinjuried or more severly injured. Whena RB is probable with a contussion for 0-2 weeks and plays gets hurt and is now listed as 6-8 weeks witha fracture and doubtful that is good but it is buried on the player card. The email of injuries is alittle vague as far as explanation of injuries ie john smith is hampered by an contussion and we should let him sit one more week and then next week john smith is not 100% and couldn't play at 100%. Those two descriptions are not very clear IMHO. It woulb be great to have the injury rating doubtful probaly etc and length 2-3 weeks or whatever on a seperate email,reprot or screen. I have found with the level of injuries this is really needed. I like how it is handled in TPB 2005 frankly.

To piggyback on this, I've had three instances where I was told it was ok to play a player even though he wasn't 100%. I go to put him in the depth chart, and he's listed as out on his player card, injured for 6 weeks.

[Surtt]

Since the 1.02 patch I've been having problems with playing probables.
When ever I play some one who is probable he ends up getting hurt worse.
(about 1 in 4, actualy)
Anyone else having this happen?

[Galaril]

I have caught the AI putting players who were yellow (often) or RED(once or twice) in the game late when it was a blowout. I had the CPU set to put in subs but geez not my star SLB who wa sout for a few weeks. H e got hurt was Red I took him off the depth chart and when I played out the game I see a message he was reinjuried. i ddin't know he was in the game. I guess the AI decide sine the score was 27-6 that it was ablowout and subbed him in. So, he was injuried for the rest of the season 7 games including the bowl game which we lost.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Surtt

Since the 1.02 patch I've been having problems with playing probables.
When ever I play some one who is probable he ends up getting hurt worse.
(about 1 in 4, actualy)
Anyone else having this happen?

Yep - I had it happen to me tonight. My QB - finalist for the heisman - is probably, 0-2 weeks, with a scratched eye (?). He gets subbed in duringa blowout and how he's toast for the year with a dislocated thumb. Grrr.

We have got to have an option to "lock" players off the depth chart.

[muns]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I would definitely not consider that 'large'.

I said scout which cuts into the recruiting budget...... not my watch list.

I cut out my watch list all together, because of the crashes

[Toddzilla]

Dola - more Poll Madness.

In week 14, #2 Texas defeats #8 Colorado 41-6 and the next week they drop to #4 in both polls, being passed by #3 Virginia Tech - up from #4 on a BYE WEEK and #3 Georgia - still #3 after beating unranked Tennessee 41-17.

Obviously, this would never ever ever ever happen. Ever.

[wbatl1]

Aaahhhh. Just had another lock up with only 30 players(2 at each position I was recruiting) on my watch list--is the watch list causing anyone else to lock-up...is the watch list a non-usuable feature do to it causing lock-ups?

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I have caught the AI putting players who were yellow (often) or RED(once or twice) in the game late when it was a blowout. I had the CPU set to put in subs but geez not my star SLB who wa sout for a few weeks. H e got hurt was Red I took him off the depth chart and when I played out the game I see a message he was reinjuried. i ddin't know he was in the game. I guess the AI decide sine the score was 27-6 that it was ablowout and subbed him in. So, he was injuried for the rest of the season 7 games including the bowl game which we lost.

i hate that too.

there should be an unactive box we can placed injured players there, so they dont get into the game at all.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I have caught the AI putting players who were yellow (often) or RED(once or twice) in the game late when it was a blowout. I had the CPU set to put in subs but geez not my star SLB who wa sout for a few weeks. H e got hurt was Red I took him off the depth chart and when I played out the game I see a message he was reinjuried. i ddin't know he was in the game. I guess the AI decide sine the score was 27-6 that it was ablowout and subbed him in. So, he was injuried for the rest of the season 7 games including the bowl game which we lost.

That's a pretty big issue that should be looked at, IMO.

[FBPro]

Having a way to make someone inactive would be great.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by KWhit

That's a pretty big issue that should be looked at, IMO.

Agreed. I think I'll probably hold off with my "serious career" until that is looked at and fixed.

[Flasch186]

yup...