WW Small Game IX- The Cold War !! game over CIA win

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by path12

Lathum, is it possible for a spy to get the lie detector?

yes. it was done with random.org

[MollyMurphy]

Sorry, I have been in meetings all day and I am leaving in about 15 min. for the airport. I will be out until after the vote but I am at home after this...travelling is done and I can be more involved. I will have to place my vote soon.

Currently, I do have some suspicion on Alan due to his voting swing to NTN on day one..on day 2 we all pressed very hard for bullet to give us a reason not to vote, and he did not step up so not necessarily holding this against him. Narc had some suspicion on him too.

I also have some suspicion on cronin since he was on Narc's radar.

Saldana is questionable given that he came out with a "code name"...seems like odd behavior

AE...I would have had suspicion, but then someone came to your door and you shared it...may be naive of me, but I am not as concerned about you now...

[MollyMurphy]

As I have read through the thread more, the only suspicious thing Saldana has done is the "name", so I don't give this much basis to call him KGB...

In fact, b/c Alan pushed that so hard, it is one more strike against Alan in my mind b/c he pushed on something so little.

[Alan T]

Well I was hoping for some more feedback about the lie detector. Our CO gave me the lie detector to try to figure things out. So my initial instict was to either:

1) Do it on something Cronin said

2) Do it on something one of my suspects said.

Obviously #1 would either clear or damn Cronin, and #2 would help me piece things together.

The issue if I use #1 is that I'm tied to Cronin some due to the day 1 vote, so me scanning him and finding him clean won't clear him in many minds (or it shouldn't).

So I'm probably stuck with #2, which is why I asked for people to toss out ideas, but unfortunatly not many of you chose to. I thought about looking at Saldana but decided not to. I think my strongest leaning was to scan something Path said.

Sooooo I read the entire thread not once, but twice looking for a single time Path said he was american or cia or anything.. and Path has so carefully covered his words that I could not find a single time where he admits to being on our side. This doesn't help me any in clearing him obviously and actually makes me feel much worse about him to the point I likely will switch my vote back to him.

I'm going through Path's comments for a third time to see if I can find anything i can use, but any suggestions before I submit something?

[MollyMurphy]

Originally Posted by MollyMurphy

As I have read through the thread more, the only suspicious thing Saldana has done is the "name", so I don't give this much basis to call him KGB...

In fact, b/c Alan pushed that so hard, it is one more strike against Alan in my mind b/c he pushed on something so little.

I am heading out for the airport...I am torn between Cronin and Alan....but I have more points that I have gathered on Alan.

Vote Alan T

[st.cronin]

Alan, I looked through the thread as well, and didn't find anything other than ardent's statements. I hate to say it, but I think the device is not much use at this point.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Alan, I looked through the thread as well, and didn't find anything other than ardent's statements. I hate to say it, but I think the device is not much use at this point.

I have to use it within 12 hours, and there are various comments from some people which I am fine using it for. Right now I'm really wanting to look at Path, and seeing Molly jump on me suddenly kind of is very very interesting I think.

[st.cronin]

I don't know what to make of Molly, either, Alan. There's a group of 4 players that haven't really done much but vote.

Chief Rum
Molly Murphy
path12
saldana

I'm very leery of saldana, because of the Jack Armstrong thing. My best guess is that there is at least one wolf in that group. I also think its possible you're a wolf. My hesitation in voting for you is that whenever it seems like you're acting funny, and whenever you're suspicious of me, it always ends up that we're both villagers.

Can you use your lie detector on saldana's Jack Armstrong statement? That's probably what I would do if I were you.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by saldana

wow...i havent even checked in yet (jack armstrong, all american boy checking in, btw) and i have gotten 2 votes and started a fight.

my first thought would have been to vote for narcizo, since he was the first person to cast a second vote, but bulletsponge's little vote and run thing pretty much locks me in place to

vote bulletsponge

Here it is, post # 107

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Sooooo I read the entire thread not once, but twice looking for a single time Path said he was american or cia or anything.. and Path has so carefully covered his words that I could not find a single time where he admits to being on our side. This doesn't help me any in clearing him obviously and actually makes me feel much worse about him to the point I likely will switch my vote back to him.

I'm going through Path's comments for a third time to see if I can find anything i can use, but any suggestions before I submit something?

Well, all I can say is that in my posts to date I haven't been talking with the expectation of needing a truthiness statement to be checked. As you well know I tend to be pretty flexible and non-committal early until I start to get a sense of what's going on or see an obvious mistake then I start pressing.

I'd like to stress though that it's a matter of my playing style rather than "carefully covering my words". If anything I'm usually far more careless in my wordings then I should be. I could tell you now for sure that I'm good, but it doesn't help at this point, and I think most of us have trended away from the obligatory "villager here" statement at check in.

That said, if you want to vote me feel free. I've got no special role.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Here it is, post # 107

In talking to Lathum about the item, Saldana's post probably wouldn't be a good one to scan. Saldana already has admitted that statement was false (that isn't his name), so the lie detector would just confirm that Saldana was lying there in that sentence. We wouldn't learn anything new.

I found something from Path that i can use I believe and will likely submit that.

[st.cronin]

Cool, standing by.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Cool, standing by.

I sent it in, waiting to hear back and will post more when I know more.

[st.cronin]

Just a heads up, I'm heading out in about 30 minutes and will likely not be back at all tonight.

[Alan T]

Unvote Barkeep
Vote Path

I submitted this:

Originally Posted by path12

If it makes you feel any better, I think you might be a wolf.

With the idea that if he was a wolf, this would be false, he would know I wasnt a wolf. If he was a good guy, then Lathum couldn't possibly know his thoughts and it likely would be true.

Well when I submitted the test, it came back false, Path was lying. So he doesn't think I am a wolf, which leads me to believe he must be one.

This is where my vote will stay until he dies or I die. You can choose to believe me or not..

[st.cronin]

good enough for me

unvote saldana
vote path12

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Unvote Barkeep
Vote Path

I submitted this:



With the idea that if he was a wolf, this would be false, he would know I wasnt a wolf. If he was a good guy, then Lathum couldn't possibly know his thoughts and it likely would be true.

Well when I submitted the test, it came back false, Path was lying. So he doesn't think I am a wolf, which leads me to believe he must be one.

This is where my vote will stay until he dies or I die. You can choose to believe me or not..

So you have a statement that is a "might be" statement and expect me to believe that I lied about it? Especially when I've gotten no notice about you showing up at my door at all?

I guess we know that a spy got the lie detector. You know perfectly well that a truth telling statement has to be a yes or no answer, not a maybe.

VOTE ALAN T

[beargrowlz]

Originally Posted by Alan T

With the idea that if he was a wolf, this would be false, he would know I wasnt a wolf. If he was a good guy, then Lathum couldn't possibly know his thoughts and it likely would be true.

Well when I submitted the test, it came back false, Path was lying. So he doesn't think I am a wolf, which leads me to believe he must be one.

This is where my vote will stay until he dies or I die. You can choose to believe me or not..

And if Path is ordinary CIA, by your own logic this means you (Alan) are KGB, which means whomever is left tommorrow can vote to have Alan shot if he is lying, and if he is telling the truth, we've eliminated a KGB agent in Path.

I hate to sacrifice Path if he is innocent, but Alan's post clearly means either he or Path is KGB, so either way Path's death turns up a KGB spy.

Cold I know, but good enough for me at this point. We'll find out tonight for sure.

Vote Path.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by path12

So you have a statement that is a "might be" statement and expect me to believe that I lied about it? Especially when I've gotten no notice about you showing up at my door at all?

I guess we know that a spy got the lie detector. You know perfectly well that a truth telling statement has to be a yes or no answer, not a maybe.

VOTE ALAN T

I don't buy it. A KGB agent would just sit on the lie detector, or use it for his own purposes and not say anything.

[path12]

Originally Posted by beargrowlz

And if Path is ordinary CIA, by your own logic this means you (Alan) are KGB, which means whomever is left tommorrow can vote to have Alan shot if he is lying, and if he is telling the truth, we've eliminated a KGB agent in Path.

I hate to sacrifice Path if he is innocent, but Alan's post clearly means either he or Path is KGB, so either way Path's death turns up a KGB spy.

Cold I know, but good enough for me at this point. We'll find out tonight for sure.

Vote Path.

The problem is that I haven't had a PM telling me I had a visitor. And the fact that you can't do a lie detector on a question that isn't a yes or no answer. The only conclusion I come to is that Alan (who has mentioned me the last day or so) has found his chance to frame and get rid of one of the more experienced players here.

Like I said earlier, I've got no special role, but by losing me today and someone else tonight we're putting ourselves in a position where we will have little to no margin of error left by dint of numbers.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

So you have a statement that is a "might be" statement and expect me to believe that I lied about it? Especially when I've gotten no notice about you showing up at my door at all?

I guess we know that a spy got the lie detector. You know perfectly well that a truth telling statement has to be a yes or no answer, not a maybe.

VOTE ALAN T

See I know you are lying since my PM said I did show up at your door.

Glad you are making this easy for me

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

See I know you are lying since my PM said I did show up at your door.

Glad you are making this easy for me

The PM you say you got. I didn't get one.

I'll tell you what. I've got body armor that I believe would protect me against a lynch. I will give that to someone on my trust list to show my intentions.

Ardent, you should be getting something from me soon.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

The problem is that I haven't had a PM telling me I had a visitor. And the fact that you can't do a lie detector on a question that isn't a yes or no answer. The only conclusion I come to is that Alan (who has mentioned me the last day or so) has found his chance to frame and get rid of one of the more experienced players here.

Like I said earlier, I've got no special role, but by losing me today and someone else tonight we're putting ourselves in a position where we will have little to no margin of error left by dint of numbers.

Hey if you turn up good then by all means lynch me. Im sure villagers will take a 1 for 1 that doesnt involve the seer any day.

[beargrowlz]

Originally Posted by path12

The problem is that I haven't had a PM telling me I had a visitor. And the fact that you can't do a lie detector on a question that isn't a yes or no answer. The only conclusion I come to is that Alan (who has mentioned me the last day or so) has found his chance to frame and get rid of one of the more experienced players here.

Like I said earlier, I've got no special role, but by losing me today and someone else tonight we're putting ourselves in a position where we will have little to no margin of error left by dint of numbers.

Well, I concede that Alan may very well be KGB. But it is also true that if you are KGB, you know the other KGB players (wolves), and thus if you write "I think Alan might be a wolf" and you know he is definitely not KGB, that statement is false, even though it says "maybe". If you know he is definitely not KGB, you cannot think he is possibly KGB.

Given that Alan has thrown down the gauntlet here, it seems clear either you or he is KGB.

I see no other play at this point.

[path12]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I don't buy it. A KGB agent would just sit on the lie detector, or use it for his own purposes and not say anything.

I'm saying he is using it for his own purposes. He's not actually using it but saying he did in order to frame me.

[path12]

Originally Posted by beargrowlz

Given that Alan has thrown down the gauntlet here, it seems clear either you or he is KGB.

I see no other play at this point.

Fair enough. But after killing me and tonight's kill (assuming 3 wolves as we seemed to have agreed on earlier) it will be 5-3-1 merc. Kill Alan tomorrow, you're at 5-2-1, after night kill 4-2-1. If the merc is turned you're toast after that. So it really does make a difference in which order you make the vote. You vote Alan today, you realize he's bad and we're at 5-2-1 after tonight and you know I'm clear, which is a huge difference.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by path12

I'm saying he is using it for his own purposes. He's not actually using it but saying he did in order to frame me.

Right, but why would he do that at all? If, as you say, you are good, then the finger will point right back at him tomorrow. He was under SOME heat today, but not enough to do something like this.

I think Alan is now fully trusted by me, and if you somehow come up as good, that's great. But this sequence makes no sense unless he's telling the truth.

[path12]

Dola, we're at 6-2-1 after tonight in that last sentence.

[st.cronin]

dola, that last paragraph came out all weird

[path12]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Right, but why would he do that at all? If, as you say, you are good, then the finger will point right back at him tomorrow. He was under SOME heat today, but not enough to do something like this.

I think Alan is now fully trusted by me, and if you somehow come up as good, that's great. But this sequence makes no sense unless he's telling the truth.

Because they're getting close to sweeping is my guess. Maybe they've already converted the mercenary, we really don't know. If that's the case even with a trade they put themselves in the position of being able to lock it up pretty much by tomorrow. That could be worth it.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Right, but why would he do that at all? If, as you say, you are good, then the finger will point right back at him tomorrow. He was under SOME heat today, but not enough to do something like this.

I think Alan is now fully trusted by me, and if you somehow come up as good, then we've been fucked by the gm. But this sequence makes no sense unless he's telling the truth.

That's more like what I meant.

[Alan T]

Like I said, people can believe me or not. I dont have any special role: I am simply a "Cia agent"

I feel confident I have a wolf, and thats good enough for me. If he ends up not as a wolf, then by all means kill me whenever, however it doesnt matter.

[beargrowlz]

Originally Posted by path12

So it really does make a difference in which order you make the vote.

I agree, it's best to take out the KGB agent and not take out the innocent party if at all possible.

But all we've got to go on is a statement by you that you think Alan might be KGB. Alan says the lie detector told him it was a false statement. Aside from any special WW rules I may be unaware of, your statement could be proven false logically if you knew Alan was not KGB.

All I've got to keep me from voting for you is that you say a maybe statement can't be proven false -- but in this case, logically it could be proven false.

Now if there's a special WW rule that's applicable here over a logical conclusion, please let me know.

But that's all I've got to hang my hat on atm.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by beargrowlz

I agree, it's best to take out the KGB agent and not take out the innocent party if at all possible.

But all we've got to go on is a statement by you that you think Alan might be KGB. Alan says the lie detector told him it was a false statement. Aside from any special WW rules I may be unaware of, your statement could be proven false logically if you knew Alan was not KGB.

All I've got to keep me from voting for you is that you say a maybe statement can't be proven false -- but in this case, logically it could be proven false.

Now if there's a special WW rule that's applicable here over a logical conclusion, please let me know.

But that's all I've got to hang my hat on atm.

Its not even about the maybes anymore. Path says I didnt visit him, my PM says I did. So obviously one of us is lying. I say its him, he says its me.. you all get to decide which it is.

I obviously would have taken a different statement of his if he hadn't so carefully covered his words the entire game. I spent a very long time trying to find something I could even use. Path is an excellent player, an excellent wolf and I just got lucky here.

If you don't believe me then kill me instead. Either way its 1 to 1, and I'm giving you path's head on a stick.

[path12]

Originally Posted by beargrowlz

I agree, it's best to take out the KGB agent and not take out the innocent party if at all possible.

But all we've got to go on is a statement by you that you think Alan might be KGB.

Well, I can only make my case -- he's framed me pretty well, and though I know the truth I can't prove that to you except possibly through sacrificing my armor in order to gain some trust.

But let me make one thing clear. I am not suggesting that Alan MIGHT be KGB. I am asserting that Alan IS KGB.

Of course, you'll know that for yourself soon enough.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

Well, I can only make my case -- he's framed me pretty well, and though I know the truth I can't prove that to you except possibly through sacrificing my armor in order to gain some trust.

But let me make one thing clear. I am not suggesting that Alan MIGHT be KGB. I am asserting that Alan IS KGB.

Of course, you'll know that for yourself soon enough.

Since I've gotten two items this game, I believe Lathum is not lying to us (not that I know why the Moderator would lie), so I do believe everything is given out randomly. So you being a wolf getting body armor randomly doesn't suprise me at all.

Its a nice try, but you are obviously bad.

[beargrowlz]

Well I will say this.

It certainly got very exciting around here while I was responding to a call irl.

One way or the other we'll find out tonight who is lying.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Its a nice try, but you are obviously bad.

LOL. You're using "obviously" in the "I know this is bullshit" sense, right?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

LOL. You're using "obviously" in the "I know this is bullshit" sense, right?

Well I'm using obviously in the sense that it makes pretty certain sense.

I submit your statement for a lie
Lathum says it comes back false
In the PM it says I go to you and have you re-say the line for the lie detector which you do.
Once it alarms false, I leave immediately.

You say I didn't see you.

There are just a few too many contradictory statements in there for me to think there is some other possibility. I am pretty certain you have to be bad.

[Alan T]

And just rereading the PM to make sure I don't miss anything.. You ovbiously have a quarters that is simply a room. As it referred to both your "room" and your "quarters" in the PM.

[path12]

Well, it's your word against mine and unfortunately for me you got the first accusation in which always helps.

But to address your concerns above:

1) I know I'm not KGB
2) I got no PM saying you came to my room, much less had me repeat that statement, which makes me think you're making it up.
3) Ergo, I know you must be KGB and wanted to frame me today for some reason. All I can do is pass my armor, which protects against night kills and lynches I believe to a trusted player in order to try and clear my name.

That makes perfect sense to me also, and leaves no possibility where you are not bad either. So I'm also certain that you have to be bad.

But like I said, it's a helluva frame and play and I give you kudos for that. It does always help to point the finger first. You guys must either have the merc pinpointed or turned and be close to winning.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

Well, it's your word against mine and unfortunately for me you got the first accusation in which always helps.

But to address your concerns above:

1) I know I'm not KGB
2) I got no PM saying you came to my room, much less had me repeat that statement, which makes me think you're making it up.
3) Ergo, I know you must be KGB and wanted to frame me today for some reason. All I can do is pass my armor, which protects against night kills and lynches I believe to a trusted player in order to try and clear my name.

That makes perfect sense to me also, and leaves no possibility where you are not bad either. So I'm also certain that you have to be bad.

But like I said, it's a helluva frame and play and I give you kudos for that. It does always help to point the finger first. You guys must either have the merc pinpointed or turned and be close to winning.

I don't know about all of that, but it does help when I'm telling the truth for me to know that you aren't. The big thing for me though is I am very curious to see who tries to save you. Do you have enough numbers that your team mates can sacrifice you and be ok, or will they try to save you and risk exposing themselves when the truth is out there?

I'm already looking hard at Molly murphy who voted for me when I stated you were my target before I even said much else. If she isn't a wolf, then you must be loving that she came to your aid like that. Otherwise I'm still trying to piece together who your other wolves are. I hope this vote will help show that.

[Barkeep49]

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear for my reasoning. However, there is now clearly a better target out there. While Alan has struck me as fishy from the start, I think he'd do a better job of wasting the lie detector if he were KGB so I'll go ahead and

Vote path

[Barkeep49]

To clarify:

Unvote cronin
Vote path

[molson]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I should have mentioned the lie detector only works on statements that were made prior to it being received.

What crappy technology.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by molson

What crappy technology.

Its 1986, what do you want?

[Poli]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Alan, I looked through the thread as well, and didn't find anything other than ardent's statements. I hate to say it, but I think the device is not much use at this point.

I didn't look. I was at work, and didn't have time to comb them. Besides, I felt my statements were worthwhile.

[Lathum]

current vote count


St. Cronin 1 ITC (391)
Barkeep 1 AE (396)
MollyMurphy 1 chiefrum (412)
AlaNT- 2 mollyMurphy (455), path12 (467)
Path12 4 AlaNT (465) St. Cronin (466), beargrowlz ( 468), barkeep ( 494)

Not voted

Molson, Saldana

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Unvote Barkeep
Vote Path

I submitted this:



With the idea that if he was a wolf, this would be false, he would know I wasnt a wolf. If he was a good guy, then Lathum couldn't possibly know his thoughts and it likely would be true.

Well when I submitted the test, it came back false, Path was lying. So he doesn't think I am a wolf, which leads me to believe he must be one.

This is where my vote will stay until he dies or I die. You can choose to believe me or not..

Wow. Wish I had this power in the superhero game. Vote forthcoming.

[Poli]

Unvote barkeep.

Vote Path