Trayvon Martin case to go to grand jury, Fla. state attorney announces

[JediKooter]

Throw in Gloria Alred and it is done.

[CrimsonFox]

ahahahahaha

[CrimsonFox]

I think this is why they quit...

Sean Hannity Lobs Softballs to George Zimmerman's Father and Defense Team | Video Cafe

[RedKingGold]

I have no horse in this race, but Zimmerman's "attorneys" are assholes for doing this in public.

It's their decision whether to withdraw as counsel, but their public displays are unprofessional and possibly unethical.

[spleen1015]

Presser at 6pm to announce charges against Zimmerman.

[Solecismic]

That was necessary, regardless of whether they felt there was enough evidence. There needs to be the circus of a very public trial.

I don't envy the defense here. I'm sure there are lawyers out there who want this case, though. For that matter, I don't envy the prosecution, unless there's some sort of smoking gun that we don't know about.

[CrimsonFox]

you mean the smoking gun that was in his hand?

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

you mean the smoking gun that was in his hand?

We know about that gun, right? I don't know. I wasn't there. I only know what the media has told me about this case, and there's so much bias these days.

I don't have a horse in this race, either. I just hope there isn't much violence when it ends, one way or another.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

That was necessary, regardless of whether they felt there was enough evidence. There needs to be the circus of a very public trial.

I don't generically disagree with you on this, although I might quibble about the difference between "necessary" and "politically expedient". ('political' in terms of social politics moreso than the traditional use of the word)

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

We know about that gun, right? I don't know. I wasn't there. I only know what the media has told me about this case, and there's so much bias these days.

I don't have a horse in this race, either. I just hope there isn't much violence when it ends, one way or another.

It seemed pretty likely a couple of weeks ago that he was going to have to be charged, and it seems equally likely to me now that he'll be acquitted or, at worst, there will be a mistrial - absent some key piece of evidence we don't know about.

What I am fairly sure of, is regardless of who wins and who loses, if there is violence and looting, some white guys will be making away with a bunch of electronics and appliances in the name of racial equality. You can mark that down.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

I have no horse in this race, but Zimmerman's "attorneys" are assholes for doing this in public.

It's their decision whether to withdraw as counsel, but their public displays are unprofessional and possibly unethical.

I was thinking the same thing. Plus they seemed to disclose information about Zimmerman that I thought would be covered under attorney-client.

[JonInMiddleGA]

This one will - absent some stunning reveal - come down to jury selection.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Darn... I was hoping for a huge manhunt with him posting patriotic ramblings about freedom on his website, just to keep things interesting.

[JediKooter]

Does he own a white Ford Bronco?

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Does he own a white Ford Bronco?

I think he's Hispanic.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Rizon

I think he's Hispanic.

Ah, so it will have a bunch of extra lights and a sparkly paint job then.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Ah, so it will have a bunch of extra lights and a sparkly paint job then.

Yeah, probably a green paint job with tons of gold accents. Probably a giant painted religious mural on the front.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Rizon

Yeah, probably a green paint job with tons of gold accents. Probably a giant painted religious mural on the front.

lmao, took me all of 30 seconds to find one

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Rizon

lmao, took me all of 30 seconds to find one

I was thinking more along the lines of this:

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

This one will - absent some stunning reveal - come down to jury selection.

...and it would seem that -- again absent some stunning reveal -- a hung jury is the most likely outcome, no?

[cartman]

C'mon, it's Florida. There is no such thing as a 'likely outcome'.

[bronconick]

I think they overcharged on this one, too. Unless they can include the option(s) for manslaughter in there, a hung jury or even acquittal may be most likely, just like when that prosecutor went 1st degree murder or nothing on Casey Anthony down there last summer.

[Ragone]

My wife and i have talked quite a bit about this case... i agree with bronconick that they overchaged.. But Da was in a unwinnable situation.. Go for manslaughter and public is outraged... Go for murder and have a way rougher path to sled. And if they fail to convict him of murder.. public is still outraged.

Not to mention defense is going to argue that trayvon wasn't a model teenager with some discipline problems. Jury selection is going to be Everything in this trial

[sabotai]

I don't know much about Florida law but maybe someone here knows this. Is the DA even allowed to charge him with both murder and manslaughter, so does it have to be one or the other?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by sabotai

I don't know much about Florida law but maybe someone here knows this. Is the DA even allowed to charge him with both murder and manslaughter, so does it have to be one or the other?

He can't be charged with both, but I believe that the law in Florida allows the jury instructions to also include the option of considering manslaughter.

EDIT: Found it. Here is a link to the Florida Supreme Court document on Jury Instructions:
http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/j...structions.pdf

From the section on verdicts:

1. Verdict form for single count, single defendant.
We, the jury, find as follows, as to the defendant in this case: (check only one)
___a. The defendant is guilty of (crime charged).
___b. The defendant is guilty of (a lesser included offense).
___c. The defendant is not guilty.

[Scoobz0202]

So for somebody ignorant of all this, he will probably be charged, but it will be much less then the charge of 2nd Degree Murder? Might as well charge him with the most you can and hope for the best is what the prosecutor is thinking?

e: "probably be charged" is a bad choice of words without knowing the evidence. I should have said, "if he is charged."

[PilotMan]

Judge quits Trayvon Martin case, cites conflict - Yahoo! News

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — The Florida judge presiding over the Trayvon Martin shooting case removed herself Wednesday after the attorney for defendant George Zimmerman argued she had a possible conflict of interest that related to her husband.

Judge Kenneth M. Lester Jr. will preside over the case. The next judge who would be in the court rotation, John D. Galluzzo, also cited a conflict, so Lester was selected, according to a news release from the court.

Florida Circuit Judge Jessica Recksiedler had said she would make a decision by Friday, when a bond hearing for Zimmerman had been set. Her husband works with Orlando attorney Mark NeJame, who was first approached by Zimmerman's family to represent the neighborhood watch volunteer.

But NeJame declined and referred them to Mark O'Mara, who is now representing Zimmerman. NeJame has since been hired by CNN to comment on the case.

Galluzzo said he had a conflict because of his personal and business relationship with O'Mara.

O'Mara said he requested that Recksiedler step down now because the case is just beginning and he wanted any possible conflict to be addressed right away rather than in the middle of the case. Recksiedler was assigned the case after Zimmerman's arrest last week.

[RedKingGold]

No surprise. In a case this high profile, the judge should recuse him or herself if there is any whiff of a potential conflict.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I've read multiple reports that said he was treated on site for injuries to the head and face.

If he was treated, it's not difficult to find out. Simply ask the police who arrived on scene, the EMP's on site and the rest of it. I've read in one or two articles he went to get medical help the next day for injuries. Again, this is either documented or it isn't.

The police footage looks bad for him though, that's for sure.

Apparently a second look at the video changes things.

ABC News: Enhanced Video Shows Injury To Zimmerman's Head : The Two-Way : NPR


This is shaking my belief in this whole trial by public opinion we have going on.

Edit: Hmm this article is a couple of weeks old. I found it by linking from another article about a "newly" released picture apparently taken just after the shooting which apparently shows the back of his head bloodied. I'm somewhat skeptical of that news however because the details appear to be a bit sketchy.

[Havok]

And yet another new photo out today. It shows Zimmerman's head covered in blood and apparently was taken 3 mins after the shooting.

This whole case infuriates me to no end. Not ONE person knows exactly what happened that night, outside of Zimmerman, yet the 'court of public opinion', fueled by a politically correct, race baiting media, convicted this guy weeks ago.

You have congressman/congresswomen (former black panther congressman), on the house floor, making complete asses out of themselves over this case, when they had NO idea what happened as well. Al Sharpton stirring people up,(you'd think he'd learn to wait for all the evidence after the Duke lacrosse case embarrassment) and the president even jumping in, when again, no one has any clue what happened that night.

So far we have doctored audio tapes by the media, blurry police video, and fuzzy audio tape which CNN tried their hardest to make it sound like Zimmeman said 'f*cking coons", when in reality, he didn't say that at all.

This guy is getting screwed royally and 70% of the public don't care. Maybe he is guilty and maybe he isn't, i have no clue. But turning this into some racial issue when no evidence suggests that this had ANYTHING to do with race, is a joke. And it all happened because before the media saw a picture of this guy (who is Hispanic, oh wait, no, he's a white Hispanic according to the NYT, so i guess Obama is a white african american), they saw 'George Zimmerman' (white name), kills an unarmed black teen. So they jumped all over it.

With all that said, I believe both parties were in the wrong here. Zimmerman shouldn’t have followed and Trayvon shouldn’t have come after him. It is a tragedy that a teenager lost his life, nobody wants that. I think Zimmerman will plead into a manslaughter charge and that will be it.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Havok

...and Trayvon shouldn’t have come after him.

There were no other witnesses, as far as we know, other than Zimmerman. So not really following you on this statement of yours.

[jeff061]

Like most of the details the media won't STFU about, it's entirely irrelevant what Trayvon did to the guy that stalked and confronted him. He was well within his right to defend himself from a strange, large and older guy stalking him.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Like most of the details the media won't STFU about, it's entirely irrelevant what Trayvon did to the guy that stalked and confronted him. He was well within his right to defend himself from a strange, large and older guy stalking him.

I still trying to figure out if this needs a sarcasm smilie. Not to mention where it would go.

[jeff061]

If I'm walking home and some random dude stalks me and walks up to me threateningly, I'm not expecting me decking him to get called into question.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by jeff061

If I'm walking home and some random dude stalks me and walks up to me threateningly, I'm not expecting me decking him to get called into question.

Hmm, apparently taking that approach can even get you shot.

Seriously though.

I'm following you on the stalking bit. It seems that both of them knew that was going on. Yes Travon knew he was being followed, and yes Zimmerman admitted that he left his vehicle to pursue and maybe even potentially confront his "suspicious person". I quote loosely. I can't recall what specifically Zimmerman said.

I'm not sure that we know anything about how the stalking actually ended.

Zimmerman confronting Martin?
Certainly that was Zimmerman's intent, but he says he failed in his efforts. If he had accomplished this goal, I'd guess that either or both of them could have escalated the situation to where it ended up.


Martin confronting Zimmerman?
This is what Zimmerman says happened. I'm not aware of any evidence that proves or disproves this assertion. But again either or both of them could have contributed to escalating this all of the way.


In any case, not all of the facts are in evidence, and I don't think anyone depending on the news for their information knows enough to declare victory for one side or the other.

I do think Zimmerman is a loser, and he certainly started the ball rolling down this path. I also think that it is possible that it was Martin who brought about the fatal escalation to the situation.

[lordscarlet]

OK, I have to admit, I barely skimmed what people are saying here. However, I don't understand what an injury to the back of his head has to do with anything. He had NO reason to be following Martin. Where is Trayvon's right to "Stand his ground"? You can't say he attacked you when you were the one stalking him and had no reason to be close enough to him to be attacked.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

... He had NO reason to be following Martin. Where is Trayvon's right to "Stand his ground"? You can't say he attacked you when you were the one stalking him and had no reason to be close enough to him to be attacked.

Really?

I'd say that anyone is completely within their "rights" to follow someone they considered suspicious. That is, if they are so inclined. Zimmerman certainly wasn't violating Martin's rights by following him. Sure he was probably being a jerk, but he didn't, as far as we know, give Martin any Need to "stand his ground".

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Really?

I'd say that anyone is completely within their "rights" to follow someone they considered suspicious. That is, if they are so inclined. Zimmerman certainly wasn't violating Martin's rights by following him. Sure he was probably being a jerk, but he didn't, as far as we know, give Martin any Need to "stand his ground".

Easy to make that assumption until you are put into the predicament. I will continue to go back to it being a moot point if he had just quit following as the dispatcher advised. Police are trained and paid to be "heros," the majority of civilians lack both the training and instincts to do the police departments job.....

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Really?

I'd say that anyone is completely within their "rights" to follow someone they considered suspicious. That is, if they are so inclined. Zimmerman certainly wasn't violating Martin's rights by following him. Sure he was probably being a jerk, but he didn't, as far as we know, give Martin any Need to "stand his ground".

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Easy to make that assumption until you are put into the predicament. I will continue to go back to it being a moot point if he had just quit following as the dispatcher advised. Police are trained and paid to be "heros," the majority of civilians lack both the training and instincts to do the police departments job.....

Exactly. He, as a member of the neighborhood watch, was told by the Police not to follow him. He grabbed his gun and did it anyway.

By your (Glengoyne) argument, Martin did nothing to require Zimmerman to "Stand his ground" either. We know Zimmerman was following him against police direction. He was possibly attacked for going against that order, getting out of his car, and presumably approaching or getting near Martin.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Easy to make that assumption until you are put into the predicament. I will continue to go back to it being a moot point if he had just quit following as the dispatcher advised. Police are trained and paid to be "heros," the majority of civilians lack both the training and instincts to do the police departments job.....

True about Zimmerman setting this all in motion. True about him ignoring the dispatcher. It would have been better for everyone involved if he, Zimmerman, had made other choices when this whole affair started. Clearly Zimmerman started this ball rolling.

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

...

By your (Glengoyne) argument, Martin did nothing to require Zimmerman to "Stand his ground" either. We know Zimmerman was following him against police direction. He was possibly attacked for going against that order, getting out of his car, and presumably approaching or getting near Martin.

I don't agree that it would be acceptable for Martin to attack Zimmerman simply for following him. That doesn't track in my book. Yeah some guy is following you, and he got out of his car to do it. You can keep moving or you can ask them what they are doing following you. There are lots of good options that don't involve violence. If Martin did attack Zimmerman, then he specifically did give Zimmerman a reason to "stand his ground".

We really don't know. Zimmerman apparently has stated that he was attacked while walking back to his vehicle. To my knowledge we don't know that Martin was aware of Zimmerman's being armed. We don't know that the evidence will support Zimmerman's allegation. We don't know if words were exchanged before the altercation that apparently happened. I'm sizing up the things that we think know, and I think Zimmerman has more going for him than anyone initially believed.

[JediKooter]

I personally don't care if Zimmerman is innocent or guilty, but, he better get a fair trial. I've already read that the affidavit for his arrest was pretty piss poor, which sounds to me like the prosecution is setting itself up for an OJ style performance. So I'm not really expecting that we'll know much more after the trial is done, than what we know now.

[Havok]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

OK, I have to admit, I barely skimmed what people are saying here. However, I don't understand what an injury to the back of his head has to do with anything. He had NO reason to be following Martin. Where is Trayvon's right to "Stand his ground"? You can't say he attacked you when you were the one stalking him and had no reason to be close enough to him to be attacked.

Well this is what i heard on the news yesterday.

That neighborhood has had 8 burglaries over the last year, witnesses reported seeing a young black man around time of the break ins.

So Trayvon is walking through the neighborhood at night, with a hoodie on and I'm sure he had his pants halfway down his ass. (i say that not because he is black, but from his twitter/facebook comments and the fact that he seemed obsessed with acting like he was some 'tough gangster'). He was apparently cutting between houses as well, now whether that was because they were shortcuts, or because he though Zimmerman was chasing him, who knows.

That's more or less how i heard it explained. Is it true? I have no clue. Should he have followed? Probably not. Did he hunt Trayvon down LIKE A DOG and murder him like a certain congresswoman said who likes wearing ridiculous outfits during hearings? No, probably not.

But stfu and let the justice system work and stop acting like this is some huge racial issue. It isn't the 1950's anymore people, stop with the BS.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Havok

(i say that not because he is black, but from his twitter/facebook comments and the fact that he seemed obsessed with acting like he was some 'tough gangster').

It was proven that the media jumped the gun, yet again, with this twitter/facebook stuff.

That was a different Trayvon Martin.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Havok

And yet another new photo out today. It shows Zimmerman's head covered in blood and apparently was taken 3 mins after the shooting.

This whole case infuriates me to no end. Not ONE person knows exactly what happened that night, outside of Zimmerman, yet the 'court of public opinion', fueled by a politically correct, race baiting media, convicted this guy weeks ago.

You have congressman/congresswomen (former black panther congressman), on the house floor, making complete asses out of themselves over this case, when they had NO idea what happened as well. Al Sharpton stirring people up,(you'd think he'd learn to wait for all the evidence after the Duke lacrosse case embarrassment) and the president even jumping in, when again, no one has any clue what happened that night.

So far we have doctored audio tapes by the media, blurry police video, and fuzzy audio tape which CNN tried their hardest to make it sound like Zimmeman said 'f*cking coons", when in reality, he didn't say that at all.

This guy is getting screwed royally and 70% of the public don't care. Maybe he is guilty and maybe he isn't, i have no clue. But turning this into some racial issue when no evidence suggests that this had ANYTHING to do with race, is a joke. And it all happened because before the media saw a picture of this guy (who is Hispanic, oh wait, no, he's a white Hispanic according to the NYT, so i guess Obama is a white african american), they saw 'George Zimmerman' (white name), kills an unarmed black teen. So they jumped all over it.

With all that said, I believe both parties were in the wrong here. Zimmerman shouldn’t have followed and Trayvon shouldn’t have come after him. It is a tragedy that a teenager lost his life, nobody wants that. I think Zimmerman will plead into a manslaughter charge and that will be it.

This is one of the most assinine posts I've ever read.

You're going on about things that simply Do not matter. You don't like teh media spin? don't fucking listen to it.

Fact A: Zimmerman followed and confronted martin
Fact: B Zimmerman was armed.
Fact C: Martin was NOT armed.
Fact D: Zimmerman shot and killed an unarmed man.


Now you want to talk about getting "Screwed Royally" perhaps you should think about how the parents of a 17 yr old boy are feeling today. Somone Zimmerman actively persued even when told it was NOT necessary. A Man who used deadly force against an UNARMED person.

Zimmerman is honestly lucky that the kid WAS black. IF the races were shifted and Zimmerman had been black and martin white or pretty much any other race Zimmerman would most likely be in prison already. THAT would be unfiar and royally screwed.


Zimmerman, no matter the results of public or teh court's opinions, killed someone of his own free will. Start with THAT fact and chew on it a bit before you start screaming at teh media and everyone else. THINK about what actual facts there are before clinging to all the extraneous BS that keeps flowing out.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by wade moore

It was proven that the media jumped the gun, yet again, with this twitter/facebook stuff.

That was a different Trayvon Martin.

How ironic that in railing against people jumping to conclusions and stereotyping he jumped all over the false media story and stereotyping that supported his agenda

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

How ironic that in railing against people jumping to conclusions and stereotyping he jumped all over the false media story and stereotyping that supported his agenda

This.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Havok

But stfu and let the justice system work and stop acting like this is some huge racial issue. It isn't the 1950's anymore people, stop with the BS.

I hope this wasn't aimed directly at me -- nowhere do I mention race. You are right, though. This isn't the 1950's -- particularly not the 1850's. People should not be carrying around weapons to enforce rule in their own neighborhoods.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Havok

But stfu and let the justice system work and stop acting like this is some huge racial issue. It isn't the 1950's anymore people, stop with the BS.

This sounds an awful lot like someone saying racism doesn't exist anymore.

It does.

[jeff061]

A lot of people seem to equate racism with back of the bus and segregation. Just because those are relics of the 50's does not mean racism is gone. It's swung towards profiling and negative stereotypes, both conscious and subconscious. I don't believe Zimmerman was actively/consciously racist, but he did stereotype a young black male in a hoodie as a criminal. Which I believe is something more of us would do than we're likely to admit.

[Autumn]

It's something all of us do, in many, many ways and there's reams of scientific evidence to support that. I hate when I hear people say that racism is not a big deal anymore, when it's one of the most supported conclusions we can make about people. If researchers tell you a story using an ethnic name, or by showing you a minority face, you (as in a typical American tested scientifically) are more likely to judge that person as violent or angry or lazy, for instance. Regardless of even systemic, societal racism, are brains are more often than not primed to use stereotypes and draw unfair conclusions. That's the fact on the ground, and we have to start from there.