WW XCV: Land of the Role Reveals GAME OVER

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I hope Barkeep counts these votes when he comes in b/c I know just from what Telle just posted that Danny's isn't right.

For the record, I think Danny picked up the count from my vote total post and I took my count from BK's last one and just worked forward.

I was burned by a wolf doing that before but figured it was safe taking it from the GM.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

For the record, I think Danny picked up the count from my vote total post and I took my count from BK's last one and just worked forward.

I was burned by a wolf doing that before but figured it was safe taking it from the GM.

Yeah, I don't think this was intentional on anyone's part as it all lead back to one vote count that turned out to be wrong.

[EagleFan]

believe dubb as GM....

[EagleFan]

sorry, couldn't resist.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

believe dubb as GM....

about damn time.

[saldana]

i quit playing WoW and BK isnt even here!!!!

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by saldana

i quit playing WoW and BK isnt even here!!!!

Was thinking about either jumping on that or firing up UFC for a fight or two while we wait.

[Tyrith]

I've been playing WoW all during this.

[Schmidty]

I miss playing WoW.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I miss playing WoW.

me too. School sucks

[Barkeep49]

Do we agree with this below? Danny's vote doesn't count, not that it matters, because it was in after the deadline.
Final

lerriuqs 7 – USFLTecmo (246), Telle (304), MartinD (356), saldana (362), Lathum (376), Hoops (394), Danny (425)
DaddyTorgo 5 – lerriuqs (250), Racer (312), EagleFan (383), Tyrith (411), Dubb (420)
MartinD 1 – Schmidty (306)
EagleFan 2 – ntndeacon (366), PurdueBrad (375)
Schmidty 1 - Chief Rum (378)

Believing:
hoops as seer 8 – dubb93 (121), PurdueBrad (220), DaddyTorgo (222), Tyrith (314), Racer (317), hoops (341), dubb93 (353), Lathum (387)
Chief Rum as seer 6 – Telle (286), hoops (341), saldana (362), Racer (365), Tyrith (374), Chief Rum (378)
PurdueBrad as BG 9 – lerriuqs (251), EagleFan (254), Danny (279), USFLTecmo (285), dubb93 (299), MartinD (322), Saldana (362), PurdueBrad (375), Chief Rum (378)
DaddyTorgo as Seer 1 – Lathum (271)
Chief Rum as BG 1 – Danny (355)

[Barkeep49]

Obviously I wasn't trying to mislead with my vote count. I apologize for the confusion.

[Danny]

Shouldn't my vote then be on DT and it be 6-6?

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Danny

Shouldn't my vote then be on DT and it be 6-6?

That's what I have now.

[Barkeep49]

Yes then it should.

lerriuqs 6 – USFLTecmo (246), Telle (304), MartinD (356), saldana (362), Lathum (376), Hoops (394),
DaddyTorgo 6 – lerriuqs (250), Danny (306), Racer (312), EagleFan (383), Tyrith (411), Dubb (420)
MartinD 1 – Schmidty (306)
EagleFan 2 – ntndeacon (366), PurdueBrad (375)
Schmidty 1 - Chief Rum (378)

Believing:
hoops as seer 8 – dubb93 (121), PurdueBrad (220), DaddyTorgo (222), Tyrith (314), Racer (317), hoops (341), dubb93 (353), Lathum (387)
Chief Rum as seer 6 – Telle (286), hoops (341), saldana (362), Racer (365), Tyrith (374), Chief Rum (378)
PurdueBrad as BG 9 – lerriuqs (251), EagleFan (254), Danny (279), USFLTecmo (285), dubb93 (299), MartinD (322), Saldana (362), PurdueBrad (375), Chief Rum (378)
DaddyTorgo as Seer 1 – Lathum (271)
Chief Rum as BG 1 – Danny (355)

[Danny]

Looks good now, other than the numbers being off

[hoopsguy]

So do we have 6-6 or 7-5 here?

[Danny]

It's 6-6

[Barkeep49]

The first couple days of the convention are exciting though people are busy at sessions during the day and don't really discuss the W.O.L.V.E.S. The end of the day comes around and after much hemming and hawing and debating and despite the tie you feel that the side which suggests Daddy Torgo to leave makes a little more sense. On his way out the door he says "I was a loyal V.I.L.L.A.G.E.R. and I'm treated like this?" and he storms away.

In other news, it is decided that PurdueBrad can be trusted to use his words wisely and so you elect him to be your protector.

[Danny]

That's the result I expected. I don't understand why a villager would give himself up.

With the result, we should now have Dubb on our mostly cleared list. I felt good about him being the Duke and this should confirm it. I suggest tomorrow we believe him for the seer.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

The first couple days of the convention are exciting though people are busy at sessions during the day and don't really discuss the W.O.L.V.E.S. The end of the day comes around and after much hemming and hawing and debating and despite the tie you feel that the side which suggests Daddy Torgo to leave makes a little more sense. On his way out the door he says "I was a loyal V.I.L.L.A.G.E.R. and I'm treated like this?" and he storms away.

In other news, it is decided that PurdueBrad can be trusted to use his words wisely and so you elect him to be your protector.

In case this isn't clear he was a vanilla villager.

[EagleFan]

See, now we have a trusted (though I don't get dubb's resistence to the plan).

We also have a second BG and our seer plan for tomorrow.

I love it when a plan comes together (though it wasn't exactly orchestrated as much as accidental).

[Schmidty]

Blah.

[PurdueBrad]

I'm back, catching up.

[PurdueBrad]

Thanks guys for the trust, on a silly note, it actually means something to me. Anyway, I will do my best as the second BG.

This should be a good night for the village.

Am I correct that dubb broke the tie?

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Thanks guys for the trust, on a silly note, it actually means something to me. Anyway, I will do my best as the second BG.

This should be a good night for the village.

Am I correct that dubb broke the tie?

That's my take on it.

If he is in fact not the duke and the real one was the one who broke the tie I would think now is the time they should come forward.

Barring that we have a trusted at least.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

See, now we have a trusted (though I don't get dubb's resistence to the plan).

We also have a second BG and our seer plan for tomorrow.

I love it when a plan comes together (though it wasn't exactly orchestrated as much as accidental).

I think things turned out as well as they could have considering a villager lynch.

[hoopsguy]

Agree with this completely. Even the villager seemed OK with it, for whatever that is worth. I'll be interested in learning about this in the postgame.

[EagleFan]

Off to get some sleep. Hopefully I'm still standing after the night deadline. I am the brutal so I should be okay...

We can work on believing that after we get the second seer.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Am I correct that dubb broke the tie?

As I stated all day, I am the duke.

[Tyrith]

Well, I just think that DT genuinely thought that lerr is a villager, he knew he was a vanilla, and just took his lump for the good of the game within that scenario. I think that's a fairly classy play, personally.

[PurdueBrad]

Thanks dubb, figured.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by dubb93

As I stated all day, I am the duke.

Glad to have been proven wrong. Just wish you would have stepped up and said give us a tie and I'll show you.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

See, now we have a trusted (though I don't get dubb's resistence to the plan).

We also have a second BG and our seer plan for tomorrow.

I love it when a plan comes together (though it wasn't exactly orchestrated as much as accidental).

EF, I never resisted your plan to force a tie, infact I don't think I ever commented on that plan. You fabricated(in your paranoid werewolf games playing mind I assume) nearly all of what you were directing towards me today. That is why as the day played out you were my vote today.

[PurdueBrad]

TO THE REAL BG: Do not protect me tonight. Here's what I am hoping to see. Tomorrow, I'll protect the seer we elect, you throw a protect on me, and we'll go from there. The next night, I can self-protect and then you put a protection on the seer and maybe we can keep tag-teaming.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Well, I just think that DT genuinely thought that lerr is a villager,

Well whatever the case the only reason I switched off of EF was because DT asked for it. As I have said, otherwise EF was my vote today.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Well whatever the case the only reason I switched off of EF was because DT asked for it. As I have said, otherwise EF was my vote today.

It worked out because if you don't switch we don't learn much.

[EagleFan]

Now I am going to get some sleep, this time I mean it.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Well whatever the case the only reason I switched off of EF was because DT asked for it. As I have said, otherwise EF was my vote today.

Yeah, I can totally get behind that.

[PurdueBrad]

I'm out, will be back in the early AM and will be on a lot more tomorrow.

[Chief Rum]

Couple thoughts:

To our BGs, real and believed. Note the following role description:

Bodyguard
Starting: May choose a person each night to protect from a wolf kill. May protect the same person only once in a three night period. Does not learn if their guarding is successful or not.
If Believed: Will also gain the starting bodyguard abilities, if they don't already have them. Will learn if they successfully guarded a person. May protect the same person two nights in a row, one time, except himself.

This is a key bit of information with respect to the "tag team" plan being considered.

Thought Two:

Tonight's lynch, in my minds, means just one thing, and that's that none of the six players who voted for lerriuqs is the real Duke. It does not mean that dubb is the Duke. If you're attaching trust to him for being on the lynch victim, I wouldn't rush to that so fast. DT was also in line to receive the lynch by the second tiebreaker even if the Duke wasn't on either main candidate.

If you're attaching trust to dubb based on voting record, that's something else entirely (although keep in mind we're coming off of a game in which dubb played out a great voting record as a wolf).

[Danny]

I don't understand the mistrust for Dubb when if there was a real duke he would come out and nab us a wolf to lynch.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Danny

I don't understand the mistrust for Dubb when if there was a real duke he would come out and nab us a wolf to lynch.

Why would the real Duke bother to do this? What makes you think dubb is actually claiming to be the duke?

It seems to me that we can't know whether he's stating he's really the Duke, or if he's trying to make a case for being believed he is the Duke. Frankly, I have always leaned toward the latter. And if that's the case, that certainly doesn't mean he's a wolf. He is just as likely--maybe even more likely--to just be a regular villager trying to get a key role for said village.

In my mind, this isn't the game to make a normal Duke read. Someone saying he's the Duke in another game, you're right, the real Duke would and should Duke him. Here, not so fast, where there is more than one play than just "are you the Duke, or aren't you"?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Why would the real Duke bother to do this? What makes you think dubb is actually claiming to be the duke?

It seems to me that we can't know whether he's stating he's really the Duke, or if he's trying to make a case for being believed he is the Duke. Frankly, I have always leaned toward the latter. And if that's the case, that certainly doesn't mean he's a wolf. He is just as likely--maybe even more likely--to just be a regular villager trying to get a key role for said village.

In my mind, this isn't the game to make a normal Duke read. Someone saying he's the Duke in another game, you're right, the real Duke would and should Duke him. Here, not so fast, where there is more than one play than just "are you the Duke, or aren't you"?

There's been a big difference between PB claiming BG, Hoops claiming seer, you claiming seer and Dubb claiming duke. It's clear Dubb is claiming to be the real duke and not just for the sake of the believing part of the game. You weren't around, but it was clear from his posts he is 100% claiming to be the real duke. If there was a real duke out there, they would be foolish not to come out and have us lynch Dubb.

[Chief Rum]

I feel like that is unclear. Basically, I am saying that just because the real Duke (were it not dubb) doesn't choose to lynch dubb, that doesn't mean dubb should be trusted, not in this game. The Duke has one shot, and when he does a lynch, he will likely become known, making his second ability (tiebreaker) possibly useless. If dubb were 100% a wolf, the Duke would make the play to lynch him, but with believed roles in this game, there's no way the Duke can know this. And if that Duke is playing this game cautiously (as I recommend he should), he would not automatically duke to dubb, because it is far from certain dubb is a wolf.

[Danny]

Right now all the duke gets to do is break ties. The duke ability is only gained when someone is believed

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Danny

There's been a big difference between PB claiming BG, Hoops claiming seer, you claiming seer and Dubb claiming duke. It's clear Dubb is claiming to be the real duke and not just for the sake of the believing part of the game. You weren't around, but it was clear from his posts he is 100% claiming to be the real duke. If there was a real duke out there, they would be foolish not to come out and have us lynch Dubb.

I read through all that earlier today, and re-read it now. I don't see where you get your certainty on your read. Because dubb doesn't say "claim"? Come on, Danny, you know better than to leap to that conclusion.

dubb may indeed be the Duke. But more needs to happen for me to extend him trust based on today's actions (or in your hypothetical, inaction on the part of the real Duke).

[Danny]

Like I said, I know you weren't around for it, but Dubb is not claiming duke the same way others are claiming roles.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Danny

Like I said, I know you weren't around for it, but Dubb is not claiming duke the same way others are claiming roles.

No, that is your read on what he's doing, and stop saying I wasn't around. I have read through all that, and I know what happened. I don't interpret his play the way you are.

[Danny]

Dubb is too smart a player to make that poor a play as a regular villager. He knows he doesn't actually need to claim that he is the duke and reclaim it at every opportunity when others say he is not. Hoops or PB aren't actually claiming to be the real seer or BG (except for game purposes)