The Trump Presidency – 2016

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by AlexB

This was exa tly my thought too: why buck the esablished trend?

Some people are theorizing that the story was put out by Kushner (and those on his side in the WH) because it says White House advisers as the source. They also had 3 of them. That's not a tiny leak but a coordinated hit. And that Kushner would be one of the few people in the White House with direct knowledge of the meeting and what was in the e-mail.

The theory is it could be his way of either getting out in front of a story that's about to get worse. Or to take the heat off him by passing the buck to his brother-in-law.

Either way it appears someone in the White House has a beef with Junior or needed to throw him under the bus. This is going to be a fascinating story and part of history going forward. Especially if people start flipping.

[Edward64]

Trump Jr saying Trump not knowing about the meeting is suspicious and not believable. Sure, right ...

[corbes]

On June 7, 2016 at 5:16, Donald Trump Jr. confirmed via email a meeting with Russian lawyer in which he was promised dirt on the Hillary Clinton.
Four hours later, at 9:13 that very night, then candidate Donald Trump took time out from a campaign victory speech to promise a “major Hillary speech” to be delivered “probably Monday of next week, before adding “and we are going to be discussing all of the things that have taken place with the Clintons."

Entirely coincidental, surely.

[corbes]

Another version of the timeline.

June 7, 2016
The final primaries of the 2016 election season take place.
Goldstein emails Trump Jr. again asking him*to meet with "a Russian government attorney." Trump Jr. responds, agreeing to the meeting and stating he would most likely bring*Donald Trump's son-in-law and now-adviser Jared Kushner and then-Trump campaign manager*Paul Manafort.
Separately, in a speech, Trump promises to deliver a "major speech" to reveal damaging information about Clinton*"probably"*June 13.
June 8, 2016
Trump Jr. confirms the meeting to be held in his office the following day.

June 9, 2016
Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya meets with*Trump Jr.,*along with Kushner and Manafort, in Trump Jr.'s office in Trump Tower.
June 13, 2016
Trump acknowledges that he had promised a major speech about*Clinton, but instead said he would*discuss her failings in depth*another time.
"This was going to be a speech on Hillary Clinton and how bad a President, especially in these times of radical Islamic terrorism, she would be," Trump said. "There will be plenty of opportunity to discuss these important issues at a later time, and I will deliver that speech soon."
June 15, 2016
Democratic National Committee opposition research files are released by a hacker called Guccifer 2.0. The files are allegedly tied to Russian hackers.

[QuikSand]

But where is all this heading?

The already-split nature of Americans in their view of not only matters of opinion by matters of fact, coupled with the slow drop nature of this story coalescing, seems to make the path ahead clear.

Let's say that in some time - whether it's 3, 30, or 300 days from now - there is assembled basically incontrovertible evidence (to any neutral party) that the Trump campaign illegally conspired with a hostile foreign power, both its government and its agents, to unduly influence the American election.

As many of 40% of people will deny the fact, citing either "fake news" or some other foothold they have been offered in an effort to either redeem their previous choice (a strong psychological phenomenon) or to defend their general political views (and their "team"). On top of that, there will surely be another wave of incremental denials and obfuscations by the sympathetic players in the Trump/Fox/Hannity/Brietbart community who essentially trumpet something like (guessing here, but it's a good guess) Well, they didn't actually go in and alter the vote counts or anything, now THAT would have been wrong, but all they did was hack computers and schedule release of damaging private information at times and in ways to alter voter opinions... but the voters still had to go cast their ballots, so no harm no foul no shirt no shoes no problem. #MAGA

And there you have it. Smoking gun found. Votes for impeachment or whatever actual consequence the rabid left are seeking at that point still elusive. And the band plays on.

[JPhillips]

The view in Kushner's orbit is that the brutal new revelations are more P.R. problems than legal problems. And if he makes progress with his Middle East peace efforts, perceptions would be very different.

Why stop there? If Jared cured cancer that would really change perceptions!

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

But where is all this heading?

The already-split nature of Americans in their view of not only matters of opinion by matters of fact, coupled with the slow drop nature of this story coalescing, seems to make the path ahead clear.

Let's say that in some time - whether it's 3, 30, or 300 days from now - there is assembled basically incontrovertible evidence (to any neutral party) that the Trump campaign illegally conspired with a hostile foreign power, both its government and its agents, to unduly influence the American election.

As many of 40% of people will deny the fact, citing either "fake news" or some other foothold they have been offered in an effort to either redeem their previous choice (a strong psychological phenomenon) or to defend their general political views (and their "team"). On top of that, there will surely be another wave of incremental denials and obfuscations by the sympathetic players in the Trump/Fox/Hannity/Brietbart community who essentially trumpet something like (guessing here, but it's a good guess) Well, they didn't actually go in and alter the vote counts or anything, now THAT would have been wrong, but all they did was hack computers and schedule release of damaging private information at times and in ways to alter voter opinions... but the voters still had to go cast their ballots, so no harm no foul no shirt no shoes no problem. #MAGA

And there you have it. Smoking gun found. Votes for impeachment or whatever actual consequence the rabid left are seeking at that point still elusive. And the band plays on.

Don't read r/The_Donald then. Their take is that Obama and Clinton set up the meeting to

At least with Jon over here, he doesn't appear to believe any conspiracy is afoot from liberals or that this whole thing is overblown, just that it's better than the alternative. While I can think his views are dumb and dangerous (as I'm sure he thinks mine are), I think he would agree that those people from The_Donald are just as worthless as their equivalent's on the left.

[JPhillips]

Eventually this probably ends with the independent counsel and/or a Dem majority House in 2019. I agree that the GOP is very unlikely to ever turn on Trump in enough numbers to matter, but if indictments start flying around that will change the situation enough to make it difficult to predict.

Even if the President is indictment free, what happens if basically the entire campaign staff is facing trials and prison? Will enough GOP electeds look to save their own asses at that point or would most of them look at sunk costs and ride the ship to the bottom?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

But where is all this heading?

The already-split nature of Americans in their view of not only matters of opinion by matters of fact, coupled with the slow drop nature of this story coalescing, seems to make the path ahead clear.

Let's say that in some time - whether it's 3, 30, or 300 days from now - there is assembled basically incontrovertible evidence (to any neutral party) that the Trump campaign illegally conspired with a hostile foreign power, both its government and its agents, to unduly influence the American election.

As many of 40% of people will deny the fact, citing either "fake news" or some other foothold they have been offered in an effort to either redeem their previous choice (a strong psychological phenomenon) or to defend their general political views (and their "team"). On top of that, there will surely be another wave of incremental denials and obfuscations by the sympathetic players in the Trump/Fox/Hannity/Brietbart community who essentially trumpet something like (guessing here, but it's a good guess) Well, they didn't actually go in and alter the vote counts or anything, now THAT would have been wrong, but all they did was hack computers and schedule release of damaging private information at times and in ways to alter voter opinions... but the voters still had to go cast their ballots, so no harm no foul no shirt no shoes no problem. #MAGA

And there you have it. Smoking gun found. Votes for impeachment or whatever actual consequence the rabid left are seeking at that point still elusive. And the band plays on.

It sure appears that unless he dies or evidence turns up that could convict him of a felony, Trump is going to remain President until at least 1/20/20, and that the continued missteps, Twitter foolishnesses, etc. will continue to occur.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Even if the President is indictment free, what happens if basically the entire campaign staff is facing trials and prison? Will enough GOP electeds look to save their own asses at that point or would most of them look at sunk costs and ride the ship to the bottom?

I think there's the potential of a boiling frog situation here (pun welcome though not intended)... this isn't happening all at once, it's evolving over time, and by the time the case is ironclad we will have already sequentially warmed up to lack of disclosure, ethics violations, emoluments abuse, electoral conspiracy, widespread slander, and eventually treason. By the end of the sequence, there will be some sort of "violation fatigue" that sets in, comparable to the "outrage fatigue" that happened during the campaign, when the longstanding norms of previously disqualifying statements/revelations/events were discarded once we had a candidate suffering not one or two but scores and scores of them.

We are through the looking glass with all this.

[Ben E Lou]

[QuikSand]

...I am always safe knowing I can drop that reference and Ben will have my back.

[Ben E Lou]

Hehehe.

The W.H. is functioning perfectly, focused on HealthCare, Tax Cuts/Reform & many other things. I have very little time for watching T.V.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 12, 2017

[Ryche]

Republicans should be terrified of the idea of a Democrat Congress and Trump presidency.

[JPhillips]

Because I'm golfing so much.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

What are the odds that a TV clip emerges from the last half hour that has someone blasting him for watching TV?

[Ben E Lou]

Effin' dolabusters.

[PilotMan]

You forgot your dola.

[Butter]

In response to Kickstand, anything that helps de-legitimize Trump and the current GOP to the American public is a net positive, AFAIC. Even if Trump remains in power.

Plus, I guess I am naive enough to believe there is still intrinsic value in finding the truth to a situation, regardless of consequences.

[Groundhog]

Who'da guessed this guy would end up being a weasel?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

You forgot your dola.

[digamma]

Generally agree with the 'where is all this heading' line. The 2018 election is going to be absolutely brutal--a swing left results in an impeachment vote. It's a good time to be in political media, fake or not.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Hehehe.

that might be the biggest lie he's told during his Presidency.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Butter

In response to Kickstand, anything that helps de-legitimize Trump and the current GOP to the American public is a net positive, AFAIC.

Yes, of course. God forbid we have a President that isn't spawned from the depths of Hell.

We've just endured the 2nd worst President in the history of the nation, I'm occasionally flabbergasted that there are people allowed to roam free that can't grasp that.

Oh well. Flabbergasted is a temporary condition.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yes, of course. God forbid we have a President that isn't spawned from the depths of Hell.

We've just endured the 2nd worst President in the history of the nation, I'm occasionally flabbergasted that there are people allowed to roam free that can't grasp that.

Oh well. Flabbergasted is a temporary condition.

Instead of your posts, if you wanted to just post a video or audio of the adults in any Charlie Brown TV special, that would be fine.

Like this:

[Thomkal]

It appears Steve King (R) from Iowa has a way to pay for Trump's wall-money set aside for food stamps and Planned Parenthood:

Rep. Steve King: Build border wall with funds from food stamps, Planned Parenthood

[JPhillips]

Mexican food stamps and Mexican Planned Parenthood, right?

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Hehehe.

The W.H. is functioning perfectly, focused on HealthCare, Tax Cuts/Reform & many other things. I have very little time for watching T.V.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 12, 2017

You've retweeted 9 clips from Fox News since Monday. https://t.co/mhx2HdIE7G

— shauna (@goldengateblond) July 12, 2017

[cuervo72]

Speaking of boiling the frog:

Watch Al Franken, David Letterman Talk Climate in Web Series - Rolling Stone

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yes, of course. God forbid we have a President that isn't spawned from the depths of Hell.

We've just endured the 2nd worst President in the history of the nation, I'm occasionally flabbergasted that there are people allowed to roam free that can't grasp that.

Oh well. Flabbergasted is a temporary condition.

Your mileage obviously varies, but I already miss having a leader who looked at our enemies like this:

[panerd]

So who did you vote for?

[larrymcg421]

Can't speak for albion, but I voted for Obama over Hillary. He was definitely better than her. Good point!

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

It appears Steve King (R) from Iowa has a way to pay for Trump's wall-money set aside for food stamps and Planned Parenthood:

Rep. Steve King: Build border wall with funds from food stamps, Planned Parenthood

Fucking brilliant, now we can have an expensive wall that still won't stop illegal immigration AND an increase in children born into poverty who won't have enough to eat.

[JPhillips]

“I am sitting in the Oval Office with a pen in hand, waiting for our senators to give it to me,” Trump told Pat Robertson, the conservative Christian founder of Christian Broadcasting Network.

There's a pretty good chance that this is literally true.

[molson]

Less than two years ago:

Republicans Criticize Obama for Talking to Putin

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

We've just endured the 2nd worst President in the history of the nation, I'm occasionally flabbergasted that there are people allowed to roam free that can't grasp that.

You're right.

Lincoln was such a pompous, arrogant, asshole for what he turned this county into.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

It appears Steve King (R) from Iowa has a way to pay for Trump's wall-money set aside for food stamps and Planned Parenthood:

Rep. Steve King: Build border wall with funds from food stamps, Planned Parenthood

Steve King is the ultimate Welfare Queen. He's never gotten a bill out of committee, much less passed into law. He gets elected and paid to say stupid shit and accomplish nothing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

You're right.

Lincoln was such a pompous, arrogant, asshole for what he turned this county into.

He's 3rd, at most. His damage was certainly more long-lasting -- led to the rise of an overreaching federal government -- but Carter was actually more inept. Obie made a good run at the title it but at some point there simply wasn't as much worth a damn left for him to damage.

Where FDR fits into the pecking order, honestly, I've never been able to quite figure out. If not for Lincoln then FDR couldn't have ushered in the welfare state in the first place, so I've flip-flopped the two for decades honestly

[Drake]

<-- Actually agree with Jon on his #1, at least in my lifetime.

That said, I'm willing to give Carter a pass for his post-presidential career. I think he's a great man who was an ill fit for the job of President.

[nilodor]

I feel like by the end of his term this thread and the Onion thread will be indiscernible from one another.

[RainMaker]

Carter is weird because he gets trashed by the right for being liberal while they praise Reagan. Both were similar when it came to fiscal policy. Carter just took over during a shittier time.

Reagan was much better when it came to foreign policy of course.

[RainMaker]

Well this isn't good either.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/12/politi...tes/index.html

[chinaski]

Why was Russian money-laundering case settled? House Dems want answers - Business Insider

That attorney, Natalia Veselnitskaya, represents the family of Pyotr Katsyv — the former vice governor of the Moscow region whose son, Denis, owns the real-estate company Prevezon. The DOJ had been investigating whether Prevezon laundered millions of dollars into New York City real estate when the case was unexpectedly settled just two days before going to trial in May.
"Last summer, Donald Trump, Jr. met with a Kremlin-connected attorney in an attempt to obtain information 'that would incriminate Hillary,'" the Democrats wrote, citing the emails Trump Jr. published on Tuesday.
"Earlier this year, on May 12, 2017, the Department of Justice made an abrupt decision to settle a money laundering case being handled by that same attorney in the Southern District of New York. We write with some concern that the two events may be connected — and that the Department may have settled the case at a loss for the United States in order to obscure the underlying facts."

The US Attorney prosecuting the case (until he was fired for not talking to Trump).... Preet Bharara.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

But where is all this heading?

The already-split nature of Americans in their view of not only matters of opinion by matters of fact, coupled with the slow drop nature of this story coalescing, seems to make the path ahead clear.

Let's say that in some time - whether it's 3, 30, or 300 days from now - there is assembled basically incontrovertible evidence (to any neutral party) that the Trump campaign illegally conspired with a hostile foreign power, both its government and its agents, to unduly influence the American election.

As many of 40% of people will deny the fact, citing either "fake news" or some other foothold they have been offered in an effort to either redeem their previous choice (a strong psychological phenomenon) or to defend their general political views (and their "team"). On top of that, there will surely be another wave of incremental denials and obfuscations by the sympathetic players in the Trump/Fox/Hannity/Brietbart community who essentially trumpet something like (guessing here, but it's a good guess) Well, they didn't actually go in and alter the vote counts or anything, now THAT would have been wrong, but all they did was hack computers and schedule release of damaging private information at times and in ways to alter voter opinions... but the voters still had to go cast their ballots, so no harm no foul no shirt no shoes no problem. #MAGA

And there you have it. Smoking gun found. Votes for impeachment or whatever actual consequence the rabid left are seeking at that point still elusive. And the band plays on.

Nothing will likely happen. Maybe the House flips, maybe a new President in 2020. I guess I could see a scenario where he just decides not to run anymore.

Like you said, 40% doesn't care. He found the right marks.

[stevew]

Those 40% that don't care control about 218 house seats. So even winning every single house district that Clinton carried and retaining all of the Trump/Democratic districts doesn't even give the Dems a majority in the house.

[Thomkal]

And so it begins:

Donald Trump impeachment: Democrat Brad Sherman files impeachment article against US President

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by panerd

So who did you vote for?

1992: Too young to vote, but debated as President George HW Bush at this debate thingy we had. I won, too :-)

1996: Sterotypical lazy college kid who didn't vote and barely paid attention, but supported President Clinton.

2000: President George W. Bush

2004: John Kerry

2008: President Obama (and over Clinton in the primary)

2012: President Obama

2016: Clinton (and over Sanders in the primary)

Don't know what the future holds, but I can't see myself voting GOP again in my lifetime. The changes required of that party are so fundamental that if there is another election in my lifetime where I vote for the conservative party, it will probably be because guys like Evan McMullin were able to create a new one.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

And so it begins:

Donald Trump impeachment: Democrat Brad Sherman files impeachment article against US President

Rep. Sherman's bid is likely to fail since the House is currently controlled by the Republicans, and only one other Democrat - Texas Representative Al Green - has publicly said he supports impeachment.

I still wouldn't expect a "real" attempt at anything to happen until the Mueller investigation is complete. Even then, unless Dems take control of the house in 2018, I wouldn't expect it to succeed.

[Thomkal]

yeah I don't expect it to succeed till then either Radii. Just reporting it for posterity

[JPhillips]

As much as I dislike Cruz, at least that guy does the work to pass legislation he favors. All Rand Paul does is sit on the sideline bitching that nothing is ever pure enough. If I were a GOP Senator I'd go out of my way to fuck over that guy.