Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Considering the first game is Big 10 vs. Big 10, I thought it was pretty funny that both games were identified as Big 10 games, when one included ND. It's not identified as Big 10 game of the week, just "2 Big 10 games."

Weird. When talking about PAC-12 games last week, they included Utah-BYU, WSU-SDSU, Oregon-Missouri State, Arizona-Stanford. How would you classify talking about them other than PAC-12 games? I can see your point only if they were talked about conference games, but nothing I saw led me to think anything other than that?

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Yeah, I meant that as shorthand for "the Villanova football thing." Seems Villanova has the same idea with the ACC that it had with the Big East, which obivously Pitt/Syracuse and probably all 12 other ACC teams would balk at.

In a way, I feel bad for Villanova, because they are about a decade behind on the football thing. You look at where USF, UCONN, UCF, even FIU right now are at, and Villanova's lack of a major football program is going to relegate them to second class school.

I don't feel bad for Villanova at all.

They've completely mismanaged any chance to grow as a football program.

At the same time, they have a highly successfully FCS program that has gotten PATHETIC support from their fans.

They had a Big East bid on a silver platter and they botched it by asking for admittance with a half-assed stadium plan.


Villanova does not have a major football program because it's clear that neither they or their fanbase (alumni and students) want one.

I see no reason to feel bad for them for that.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Weird. When talking about PAC-12 games last week, they included Utah-BYU, WSU-SDSU, Oregon-Missouri State, Arizona-Stanford. How would you classify talking about them other than PAC-12 games? I can see your point only if they were talked about conference games, but nothing I saw led me to think anything other than that?

The first game they mentioned is a conference game.

Utah-BYU is not a PAC-12 game, it a game involving a PAC-12 team.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I don't feel bad for Villanova at all.

They've completely mismanaged any chance to grow as a football program.

At the same time, they have a highly successfully FCS program that has gotten PATHETIC support from their fans.

They had a Big East bid on a silver platter and they botched it by asking for admittance with a half-assed stadium plan.


Villanova does not have a major football program because it's clear that neither they or their fanbase (alumni and students) want one.

I see no reason to feel bad for them for that.

Fair enough. I really know next to nothing about Villanova.

[Ksyrup]

This is an interesting read:

The Geography of College Football Fans (and Realignment Chaos) - NYTimes.com

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The first game they mentioned is a conference game.

Utah-BYU is not a PAC-12 game, it a game involving a PAC-12 team.

Indeed. It's a PAC-12 game, just like Notre Dame-Purdue is a Big-10 game. As I said, if it said two Big-10 conference match-ups you would have a point.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

the quality of villanova's football team is irrelevant. it's their tv market that everyone covets. it's temple's deal with the linc that is their undoing.

Ugh with this logic. Villanova played Temple at the Linc in front of 32,000. Any city outside of the southeast with a professional team doesn't seem to give two craps about college football on TV or in person.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Indeed. It's a PAC-12 game, just like Notre Dame-Purdue is a Big-10 game. As I said, if it said two Big-10 conference match-ups you would have a point.

Huh? I don't get that, sorry.

[MrBug708]

Ah, that seems to be the disconnect then

[Ksyrup]

When you say Big 10 or Pac 12 game, you are eliminating the redundant and unnecessary word "conference." There is no meaningful distinction between Pac 12 game and Pac 12 conference game. They are the same thing.

I have never heard a college football team's non-conference game being referred to as a conference game.

It really doesn't matter, it was just a throw-away comment. At this point, this is nothing more than the quintessential internet discussion about nothing.

[Ksyrup]

I guess I'm not the only one...

BryanDFischer Bryan Fischer
Hmm... RT @MikeHumesESPN: Networks set for two 8 pm Big Ten games on Oct 1: Nebraska at Wisconsin on ABC & Notre Dame at Purdue on ESPN

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

When you say Big 10 or Pac 12 game, you are eliminating the redundant and unnecessary word "conference." There is no meaningful distinction between Pac 12 game and Pac 12 conference game. They are the same thing.

I have never heard a college football team's non-conference game being referred to as a conference game.

It really doesn't matter, it was just a throw-away comment. At this point, this is nothing more than the quintessential internet discussion about nothing.

When someone asks for the schedule of Big-10 games during week one, do you answer that there aren't any Big-10 games?

[Ksyrup]

When I actually hear someone ask me that, I'll let you know.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

When I actually hear someone ask me that, I'll let you know.

What were the Big-10 games that were played in week 1 this year?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This is an interesting read:

The Geography of College Football Fans (and Realignment Chaos) - NYTimes.com

That's a brilliant article. Especially when it shows exactly why the SEC wanted Texas A&M.

[cuervo72]

Siding with Ksyrup on this one.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

What were the Big-10 games that were played in week 1 this year?

Honestly, this is not worth arguing over.

The tweet I quoted listed a Big 10 game and a non-Big 10 game together. My point was simply in that context, referring to those as Big 10 games suggests they are both conference games. If it was a list of 12 games involving conference teams and half of them were non-conference, then the context would be understood.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This is an interesting read:

The Geography of College Football Fans (and Realignment Chaos) - NYTimes.com

Birmingham - We really have nothing else going for us.

[Ksyrup]

And it was simply a joke, given the realignment madness everyone's afflicted with and ESPN's seeming involvement in every facet of it.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This is an interesting read:

The Geography of College Football Fans (and Realignment Chaos) - NYTimes.com

Definitely interesting, but I think his numbers or methodology are pretty flawed. Simply no way Georgia Tech has 1.7 million fans to Georgia's 1.1.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, the more I look at it, the more I scratch my head. FSU is way below some teams you'd think they have more fans of, then Auburn is way above Alabama, and Clemson thata far ahead of South Carolina, etc.?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by digamma

Definitely interesting, but I think his numbers or methodology are pretty flawed. Simply no way Georgia Tech has 1.7 million fans to Georgia's 1.1.

Yes, I don't think I understand where he is pulling his numbers from. When I was at Ga Tech, I swear there was 4 UGA fans for every 1 Tech fan in the city of Atlanta, say at a Braves game or Falcons game or something. I mean it was not even close.

[bronconick]

Yeah, given Miami's attendance woes, there's no way they have the 14th biggest fanbase.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by digamma

Simply no way Georgia Tech has 1.7 million fans to Georgia's 1.1.

LOL, that alone is enough to tell me that there's nothing to see in that link. I'm not even sure that GT fans outnumber random SEC fans in Atlanta, much less UGAg fans.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Yeah, given Miami's attendance woes, there's no way they have the 14th biggest fanbase.

Miami has attendance woes, but I don't think that's indicative of their fanbase. They have a pretty big national fanbase and I buy that it more than makes up for their lack of local attendance.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Speaking of Atlanta, great example of the fallacy about how expansion magically "gets" a market for a given conference.

Saturday's ACC GotW on broadcast was Duke vs BC. Granted, not exactly a marquee game but it's still an ACC game & Atlanta has an ACC team so there should be some sort of pull there.

HH Rating
CFB (Auburn vs Clemson) - 7.4 rtg
Access H'wood/TMZ - 1.2 rtg
SEC (Vandy vs Ole Miss) - 1.0 rtg
Movie ("Red Heat") - 0.6 rtg
BMW Golf (on NBC) - 0.4 rtg
ACC (Duke vs BC) - 0.2 rtg
Note: GT was playing KU on cable during this, plus 80k people were at Sanford Stadium watching UGA-Coastal Carolina, which is larger than the audience for any of the TV games with the exception of Aub-Clem above & UT-Fla below

Incidentally, the next time period was interesting too
Tenn-Fla 7.4 rtg
Texas-UCLA 3.3 rtg
Braves-Mets 3.2 rtg
ND -Mich St 2.0 rtg
Movie ("48 Hours) 1.0 rtg
Various old sitcoms 0.6 rtg

edit to add: Okl-FSU did a 10.7 in primetime, with about 60% of HH using TV. That's about 50% more than the HUT number from the early afternoon games, only 25% more than were watching anything by late afternoon. Don't overlook that note I made about the crowd at the UGA game earlier, it's more relevant than you might think. At the individual market level, that's a lot of people to be taking out of TV circulation, the same kind of impact is seen in local markets that host a NASCAR race, the numbers are often driven down noticeably by the simple fact that people who would normally watch are sitting in a seat somewhere.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

LOL, that alone is enough to tell me that there's nothing to see in that link. I'm not even sure that GT fans outnumber random SEC fans in Atlanta, much less UGAg fans.

His actual numbers may be off, but the gist of what he's saying is probably not too far off from what you'd agree with in terms of assessing market value. I think many of us that follow this stuff understands that it's a lot more complex than simply "Team A is in City B, so getting Team A means getting City B's TV market".

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

His actual numbers may be off, but the gist of what he's saying is probably not too far off from what you'd agree with in terms of assessing market value. I think many of us that follow this stuff understands that it's a lot more complex than simply "Team A is in City B, so getting Team A means getting City B's TV market".

I agree with this.

I'd still challenge anyone to find 831k Pitt fans.

[larrymcg421]

So if I'm reading all these rumors and moves correctly, the Big East/Big 12 merger would then feature:

Iowa State
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
South Florida
West Virginia
Cincinnatti
Louisville
Rutgers
Connecticut
TCU

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

So if I'm reading all these rumors and moves correctly, the Big East/Big 12 merger would then feature:

Iowa State
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
South Florida
West Virginia
Cincinnatti
Louisville
Rutgers
Connecticut
TCU

WVU people think there's a very, very small chance WVU ends up in the Big East/Big 12 merger. Some very unexpected things would have to happen. I don't see Mizzou or UConn in it either. I honestly have no idea where Rutgers or Louisville sit in this.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

So if I'm reading all these rumors and moves correctly, the Big East/Big 12 merger would then feature:

Iowa State
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
South Florida
West Virginia
Cincinnatti
Louisville
Rutgers
Connecticut
TCU

I like this way more than the SEC or the Pac-10. (Think the Big 10 is a pipe dream) Get to keep the rivals and add some new ones that are tradionally on Mizzou's level. Why lose to Florida, Bama, and LSU every year? Why stay up until 10 at night to watch basketball? Give this a BCS bid and I am definitely on board. (Its a hell of a basketball conference.)

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

So if I'm reading all these rumors and moves correctly, the Big East/Big 12 merger would then feature:

Iowa State
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
South Florida
West Virginia
Cincinnatti
Louisville
Rutgers
Connecticut
TCU

I doubt that would be the final conference, but that's a good basketball conference.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by panerd

I like this way more than the SEC or the Pac-10. (Think the Big 10 is a pipe dream) Get to keep the rivals and add some new ones that are tradionally on Mizzou's level. Why lose to Florida, Bama, and LSU every year? Why stay up until 10 at night to watch basketball? Give this a BCS bid and I am definitely on board. (Its a hell of a basketball conference.)

Yeah, it's going to suck when TCU keeps killing all of us for the BCS football bid after being in, what, the Mountain West for a while? But at least it gives KU some winnable football games and maintains a strong hoops conference. If it's not a BCS conference, tho, all bets are off.

That said, who would watch the football? I'd imagine it's like Big East football is now- no one really watches it.

SI

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Atocep

WVU people think there's a very, very small chance WVU ends up in the Big East/Big 12 merger. Some very unexpected things would have to happen. I don't see Mizzou or UConn in it either. I honestly have no idea where Rutgers or Louisville sit in this.

Agreed. If these two conferences merge then you've got 2-4 teams in that conference that will be plucked the next time one of the bigger conferences gets an itch to grow which means you're back to looking for members. May as well merge the MWC, Big East, and Big 12 then.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Yeah, it's going to suck when TCU keeps killing all of us for the BCS football bid after being in, what, the Mountain West for a while? But at least it gives KU some winnable football games and maintains a strong hoops conference. If it's not a BCS conference, tho, all bets are off.

That said, who would watch the football? I'd imagine it's like Big East football is now- no one really watches it.

SI

Well this year WVU, South Fla, Baylor (already beat them), Iowa State, and Mizzou would give them a run for their money. And Louisville, UConn, and Cincinnati have been good recently. I think it makes way more sense than being a delusional Mizzou fan who thinks we will be anything but a bottom feeder in the SEC.

Would love basketball, think MSG might keep the Big East tournament with this potential lineup? (keep Georgetown, Nova, etc for basketball)

[sterlingice]

I know- I was just joking about TCU. But it still feels a lot like Big East football now where you know it's the team just happy to get a BCS bid but it's the creampuff that a second SEC or Big XII or Big 10 school gets to beat up on most years.

I'd be disappointed to see the Big XII hoops tournament go. Kansas City has done a great job hosting the tourney and it seems to have found a successful home (as opposed to the years where it was in Dallas).

SI

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Ugh with this logic. Villanova played Temple at the Linc in front of 32,000. Any city outside of the southeast with a professional team doesn't seem to give two craps about college football on TV or in person.

i agree. but it seems to be more about potential than reality. hence the fascination with any school claiming to have inroads to nyc.

saying to advertisers, 'our network reaches x million people.' vs. 'our network reaches 7 of the 10 largest markets in america.' means something.

i know people in boston don't give a shit about bc. but all it takes is a title run by a bunch of scrappy underdogs and $$$

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I know- I was just joking about TCU. But it still feels a lot like Big East football now where you know it's the team just happy to get a BCS bid but it's the creampuff that a second SEC or Big XII or Big 10 school gets to beat up on most years.

I'd be disappointed to see the Big XII hoops tournament go. Kansas City has done a great job hosting the tourney and it seems to have found a successful home (as opposed to the years where it was in Dallas).

SI

If we used the team layout that panerd cited, I would think that the western teams would require a rotating basketball tournament between MSG and probably Kansas City. Same thing with a football championship.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

If we used the team layout that panerd cited, I would think that the western teams would require a rotating basketball tournament between MSG and probably Kansas City. Same thing with a football championship.

If the league is still called the Big East, I highly doubt the bball schools will give the ACC an entry into MSG (which is what opening up MSG on a rotation basis would do) over their dead bodies

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Chubby

If the league is still called the Big East, I highly doubt the bball schools will give the ACC an entry into MSG (which is what opening up MSG on a rotation basis would do) over their dead bodies

If that's true, I'm guessing the remaining B12 would let the Big East die/become a basketball only mid-major and look for a western merger with one of those conferences. They're not going to enter an agreement with those teams without some sharing of championship sites. They've learned their lesson from the Texas debacle. Bringing in schools like MU, KU, and KSU would require some loss of power on the part of the other schools.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

Didn't see it yet in this thread. BearcatLair.com reporting that the WVU application has been turned down by the SEC. Alabama Rivals site reporting that WVU is #4 or #5 on the SEC's list of candidates for expansion.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

dola

Didn't see it yet in this thread. BearcatLair.com reporting that the WVU application has been turned down by the SEC. .

Not true. It's a misunderstanding of what happened.

It had WVU people in a panic all morning.

Nothing is a lock in any way, but WVU is in the same shape it was in yesterday. We're waiting on OU, Texas, and A&M to finalize things.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Not true. It's a misunderstanding of what happened.

It had WVU people in a panic all morning.

Nothing is a lock in any way, but WVU is in the same shape it was in yesterday. We're waiting on OU, Texas, and A&M to finalize things.

I'm sure you're probably correct. We've obviously dealt with similar things on the A&M and MU front in regards to reports like this. Just hadn't seen it posted. Though I'm still not sure where the hell this other comment regarding WVU being 4th or 5th comes from. It's a SEC site, but doesn't mesh with what we've heard thus far.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Alabama Rivals site reporting that WVU is #4 or #5 on the SEC's list of candidates for expansion.

I'd buy that easily enough ... but I don't think they're likely to get any of the 3 or 4 ahead of them either (in no particular order, Texas, FSU, and prolly Oklahoma)

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'd buy that easily enough ... but I don't think they're likely to get any of the 3 or 4 ahead of them either (in no particular order, Texas, FSU, and prolly Oklahoma)

This is correct. WVU is #4 or #5 behind OU, Texas, FSU, then Mizzou/WVU are 4th or 5th depending on who you talk to.

There's a lot of twisting of words right now to bring in viewers/listeners. Dunlap backtracking on his tweet last night was a good example. He had a radio show last night night and knows he get WVU fans worked up. On the actual radio show he backed up his earlier tweet about WVU sending in paperwork and that being a good sign.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

This is correct. WVU is #4 or #5 behind OU, Texas, FSU, then Mizzou/WVU are 4th or 5th depending on who you talk to.

There's a lot of twisting of words right now to bring in viewers/listeners. Dunlap backtracking on his tweet last night was a good example. He had a radio show last night night and knows he get WVU fans worked up. On the actual radio show he backed up his earlier tweet about WVU sending in paperwork and that being a good sign.

Makes sense.

Saw that OU's president has been given permission to talk to other conferences and negotiate on behalf of the university. Also, KU's board has called a special meeting for Thursday afternoon.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Makes sense.

Saw that OU's president has been given permission to talk to other conferences and negotiate on behalf of the university. Also, KU's board has called a special meeting for Thursday afternoon.

It's the Kansas Board of Regents which looks over all universities in the state (Kansas, Kansas State, Wichita State, etc) and are mainly chosen by the Kansas Governor (who happens to be a Kansas State guy this term). I wouldn't expect much to come from this meeting aside from the usual comments of "the Big 12 is great and we'd prefer KU and KSU remain in the same conference". I don't know that they have enough political clout to actually make that stick when push comes to shove.

[Suicane75]

Forgive me for what may seem like a dumb question but does the NCAA have any kind of authority over the schools? Seems like the inmates running the asylums.