Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's a nice feud for lower down on the car but finishing up a Raw with it is kind of sad in my opinion. The only reason they are doing it is for Total Divas.

They can use it once Bryan gets back as well.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How are advertisers treating DVR these days?

I don't regard it at all frankly, all my recent flights are time sensitive (i.e. sale ends in X days)

Nationally the negotiations are generally done on a Live+3 basis. I think that's kind of foolish for some advertisers but that's what was settled on several upfronts ago.

[molson]

One thing I didn't realize - WWE couldn't find a new TV deal for Main Event after ION cancelled them earlier this year. And Main event drew nearly identical ratings to TNA (between 1 and 1.4 million).

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Yeah, Steph is arguably the best heel in the company right now, and that's largely based on her ability to get over and make herself despised.

If by despise you mean make me turn the channel, yea sure, she's pretty despicable.

The RAW rating was also down this week. I do NOT think they have caught lightning in a bottle here.

For the record, I didn't even watch it. When I realized what they were ending the show with I changed my cat's litter box and went to bed. I'm sure it was just as bad as most Steph segments though. Brutally acted and force fed to a viewing audience that doesn't really care.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by dubb93

If by despise you mean make me turn the channel, yea sure, she's pretty despicable.

The RAW rating was also down this week. I do NOT think they have caught lightning in a bottle here.

For the record, I didn't even watch it. When I realized what they were ending the show with I changed my cat's litter box and went to bed. I'm sure it was just as bad as most Steph segments though. Brutally acted and force fed to a viewing audience that doesn't really care.

You really couldn't be more wrong. But that's ok.

[molson]

The info from the conference call wasn't great, but it could have been worse. Stock is up about 2 or 3% today, so I think the market already accounted for all this news.

Really bad news for wrestling fans in Canada though. 10-year deal with Rogers to make the Network a premium cable channel in Canada. You can only access the online stuff if you subscribe to the TV Channel, like HBO Go. Which explains why the WWE is still pushing the live feed as a thing at all, and the news about them looking into satellite transmission options. That's on the table for other countries, to sell the Network as a cable channel.

-Domestic attendance up 11% up for the quarter, 3rd quarter in a row.
-TV ratings up: Raw 5%, Smackdown 3%
-700,000 Network subscribers a "strong base to build on" per McMahon.
-They are making the Network globally available OTT in 170 countries starting 8/12 (Australia, France, Mexico, UK in October, Germany later)
-They announced a 10-year agreement with Rogers Communications, a combination of core programming (RAW, Smackdown) in conjunction with the Network. They will make it as a premium channel very similar to HBO.
-They plans to increase their 2015 outlook by 30% million by reducing staffing by 7%.
-In Q2, they saw 161,000 gross new subscribers, 33k net new.
-They found 91% access the Network once a week using an average of 2.5 devices.
-They have a 5-part plan to grow the Network: new geographic areas, new content, expanding the distribution platform, new features, and a 'high impact' acquistion and marketing initiatives.
-Over time, they will localize the WWE Network in various countries as appropriate.
-They are launching the Network on several smart TVs soon.
-They are adding a 'Resume Play' option soon.
-They had $19.4 million in network revenue offset by $13.2 million decline in PPV.

[molson]

TNA has it's Destination X show on Spike tonight. It's a good chance to check out something a little different before they go away. It was taped in Hammerstein Ballroom in NYC about a week ago, and looks like a pretty good show:

Eddie Edwards & Davey Richards vs. Matt & Jeff Hardy for the tag titles
Low Ki vs. Zema Ion vs. Manik in the X division title tournament
Brian Cage vs. Crazzy Steve vs. Seiya Sanada in the X division title tournament
Samoa Joe vs. Tigre Uno vs. Homicide in the X division tournament
Bobby Lashley vs. Austin Aries for the TNA title

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by molson

The info from the conference call wasn't great, but it could have been worse. Stock is up about 2 or 3% today, so I think the market already accounted for all this news.

Really bad news for wrestling fans in Canada though. 10-year deal with Rogers to make the Network a premium cable channel in Canada. You can only access the online stuff if you subscribe to the TV Channel, like HBO Go. Which explains why the WWE is still pushing the live feed as a thing at all, and the news about them looking into satellite transmission options. That's on the table for other countries, to sell the Network as a cable channel.

-Domestic attendance up 11% up for the quarter, 3rd quarter in a row.
-TV ratings up: Raw 5%, Smackdown 3%
-700,000 Network subscribers a "strong base to build on" per McMahon.
-They are making the Network globally available OTT in 170 countries starting 8/12 (Australia, France, Mexico, UK in October, Germany later)
-They announced a 10-year agreement with Rogers Communications, a combination of core programming (RAW, Smackdown) in conjunction with the Network. They will make it as a premium channel very similar to HBO.
-They plans to increase their 2015 outlook by 30% million by reducing staffing by 7%.
-In Q2, they saw 161,000 gross new subscribers, 33k net new.
-They found 91% access the Network once a week using an average of 2.5 devices.
-They have a 5-part plan to grow the Network: new geographic areas, new content, expanding the distribution platform, new features, and a 'high impact' acquistion and marketing initiatives.
-Over time, they will localize the WWE Network in various countries as appropriate.
-They are launching the Network on several smart TVs soon.
-They are adding a 'Resume Play' option soon.
-They had $19.4 million in network revenue offset by $13.2 million decline in PPV.

Now what's the part about subscription rates going up to $20? Is that just for new users or if you want 1 month only? I've seen mixed reports on it today. Still haven't gotten it but probably will near 'Mania.

[molson]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Now what's the part about subscription rates going up to $20? Is that just for new users or if you want 1 month only? I've seen mixed reports on it today. Still haven't gotten it but probably will near 'Mania.

Yup, $20/month with no commitment, but you can still do $10/month with a 6-month commitment.

But there's no guarantee they'll offer the $20/deal Mania month. I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't offer that option then, or if we have all new pricing schemes then. (A tier for the Network without PPV, and a higher tier for Network + plus PPVs).

[Toddzilla]

Spike / Viacom is handling the cancellation of Impact! very professionally, telling media that they are "in negotiations" rather than straight out saying they've dropped TNA. That gives TNA a bit more leverage to negotiate a deal on another network - had Viacom simply said "We're done," then the best TNA could hope for would be lowball offers from networks trolling for content. I think that happened to the WWE when Viacom dropped them last time - Viacom announced they were dropping the WWE and the WWE then got lowballed by NBC in negotiations.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by molson

The info from the conference call wasn't great, but it could have been worse. Stock is up about 2 or 3% today, so I think the market already accounted for all this news.

-They have a 5-part plan to grow the Network: new geographic areas, new content, expanding the distribution platform, new features, and a 'high impact' acquistion and marketing initiatives.

(my emphasis)

Interesting choice of words

[RainMaker]

They went again with Steph/Bellas closing out Raw. I like Steph but could give a shit about the Bellas. It's a nice mid-card feud but it shouldn't be closing out back-to-back Raws.

Also putting Steph vs Brie Bella on the mic was embarrassing. I felt bad for Brie by the end. Steph is just so good at it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Also putting Steph vs Brie Bella on the mic was embarrassing. I felt bad for Brie by the end. Steph is just so good at it.

I happened to see that segment live. Steph (who I nominally tend to like as a character overall & through the years) was alright in it but I thought she really benefited from comparison. Bella bordered on being downright bad, making Steph look like Flair by comparison.

[molson]

Alberto Del Rio was fired today "due to unprofessional conduct and an altercation with an employee." That's actually the quote from their website.

I've been as bored with him as everyone else has, but I think he's hugely underrated as a talent. I just wish they let him move beyond the aristocrat gimmick and theme song at some point. He a pretty big guy that could wrestle, brawl, and do high-flying lucha stuff. And he has charisma. That character was just incredibly stale.

[RainMaker]

Yeah I liked his ring work and he has a good body for the WWE. They booked him terribly though and wasted a pretty good talent.

At the same time I think I've read about multiple incidences with him backstage. Wasn't he in a fight with someone else not to long ago? Maybe they just soured on him awhile back and were just letting his contract run out.

The dirtsheet rumor by the way is that he slapped an employee in the social media department over something. I'd still take that with a massive grain of salt but if true, deserved to be fired.

[dubb93]

As someone who spends some time taking in quite a bit of the on demand content on the WWE Network, I did some thinking about Vince McMahon's thoughts on the future of the Network.

For me, I don't think they need more video acquisitions ATM, or even more original content. Some of the wrestling round table stuff is fun, if you want to do that, fine. I'm sure the cost of making that is quite low and it is fun. What they REALLY need to do is make a better effort to get the ECW TV, Raw's, and Nitro's up there. Obviously no one is going to sit down and watch every Raw that ever happened from start to finish. That isn't the point of having them all up there. The point is that different people fondly remember different shows and times in wrestling. Right now, say I have a fond memory of Summerslam 1997. Great. I can go watch it. But as with all things wrestling...it just isn't the same without the build up. The point of getting it up there is that I can pick any major wrestling show in history...watch the build up to the show, and then watch the show. I hope someone has the sense to tell them that that should be their focus right now.

I have faith that they atleast kind of get it with the SNME and Clash of the Champions being added. They still need to do more. They need to eliminate the holes in the library before they decide to expand it, lest they fall into the trap of adding more content, with even more holes in it, that can't be enjoyed to its full extent.

[Carman Bulldog]

I think they need to get stuff like the Mid-South/UWF library up there, Georgia Championship Wrestling, Stampede, AWA, etc. I've watched quite a bit of full UWF episodes online and they are outstanding (apart from always clipping the last match).

[molson]

Nitro episodes are going up starting this fall. It will probably be like they're doing with RAWs, starting at the beginning, and adding them as they go. They have the first 123 episodes of RAW up so far, from early '93 to summer '95.

There's a few reasons they can't blow their load on these things all at once. It costs money to digitize everything and edit out copyrighted music. And from a marketing perspective, you always want to be adding new things. You never know what will be the hook to bring someone in or keep someone. If everything's available off the bat, it's pretty much immediately stale.

I'm loving the network. I'm going through the SNMEs right now. There's so much stuff on there that I'd love to watch that I'll never have time to get around to, so I'm pretty content with the amount of content, and am looking forward to something new to jump into every few months.

Edit: Though the gaps in the ECW and WCCW stuff are weird. I wonder if they own everything, or if some original tapes have been damaged or lost. There's some stretches where there's a bunch of episodes in a row, but then there's things missing. Some of the early ECW stuff, especially, might be a little sketchy in terms of ownership.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

I think they need to get stuff like the Mid-South/UWF library up there, Georgia Championship Wrestling, Stampede, AWA, etc. I've watched quite a bit of full UWF episodes online and they are outstanding (apart from always clipping the last match).

I agree. Thats the stuff I'm kind of talking about. I think they should focus completely on adding things they already own. He implied they are planning on going out and buying more crap...which is silly since they don't even have anywhere close to all the stuff they already own up there.

[SirFozzie]

If you were a wrestling fan from the Territories era, you may want to pick up Len Denton's new book.

Who's Len Denton?

You may recognize him better by the name he worked most of his career... The Grappler.

One of the more unknown wrestling heroes of that age (seriously, how many men can boast they beat the tag team of Dusty Rhodes and Andre the Giant?).. he basically worked everywhere..

Amazon.com: Grappler: Memoirs of a Masked Madman eBook: Lynn Denton, Joe Vithayathil, Roddy Piper: Kindle Store

[molson]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

If you were a wrestling fan from the Territories era, you may want to pick up Len Denton's new book.

Who's Len Denton?

You may recognize him better by the name he worked most of his career... The Grappler.

One of the more unknown wrestling heroes of that age (seriously, how many men can boast they beat the tag team of Dusty Rhodes and Andre the Giant?).. he basically worked everywhere..

Amazon.com: Grappler: Memoirs of a Masked Madman eBook: Lynn Denton, Joe Vithayathil, Roddy Piper: Kindle Store

I'm definitely adding that one to the list.

Another one I've always wanted to check out in Gary Hart's book, but it had a ridiculously low printing, and, I'm not going to shell out a grand for it:

Playboy Gary Hart: My Life in Wrestling: Gary Hart, Philip Varriale: 9780692000465: Amazon.com: Books

[Mota]

Are they seriously going there with Daniel Bryan? We all know how well this angle worked in TNA.

[molson]

You can now get the network for $12.99 without the 6-month commitment.

I think they should have offered a no-commitment plan off the bat (maybe with Mania excluded) but maybe at a higher price point than that. I think it's like PPV, there's a core group that is willing to pay a few dollars more, but not as many who are willing to jump in if something is a little cheaper. The number of people willing to pay for wrestling is finite, and a lot smaller than they thought it was. WWE PPV revenue went through the roof when they doubled the price of those shows. They need more money from that core. And I bet there's a lot of reluctance to commit to any streaming service for 6-month when that's typically a month-by-month thing with other providers.

It will be interesting to see if they keep that through Mania. For $12.99 for Mania alone, they would have to sell a ton of subscriptions (several million) to make up for the lost PPV revenue.

[RainMaker]

I think they should just make it $9.99 for everyone. The commitment stuff is dumb and unenforceable. If you are confident in your product, just try to get people to sign up and you'll be able to keep them.

[Mota]

I just subbed today, in Canada it is $11.99. They always find a way to jack up the prices for Canada using the exchange rate as an excuse, but it would really only be $10.91 if you use today's exchange rate.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Davey Richards reportedly broke his leg during a house show match tonight in PA. Upside for TNA is that Impact episodes have already been filmed through 9/23 so they have some time to figure out what to do next. TNA STAR SUFFERS BROKEN LEG | PWInsider.com

[Mota]

Given that his absence will only start on 09/23, I would guess they can wait a few additional weeks for him to be back, unless he needs surgery and that would delay his return significantly.

I haven't seen him wrestle in TNA at all, is he closer to the old RoH Davey or the American Strong Style Davey? I really wasn't a fan of the American Strong Style version when he was RoH champ.

[Mota]

Tomorrow I'm going to see Smash Wrestling in Toronto.

Chris Hero vs. Matt Cross for the Championship
Super Smash Bros vs. Young Bucks
Johnny Gargano vs. Tyson Dux
Jay Lethal vs. Brent Banks

Overall it should be a pretty good show, then the bar plays Summerslam and I would guess some of the wrestlers will stick around to watch the show as well.

[twothree]

Whoever wrote the script for that lumberjack match should get a raise.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

I haven't seen him wrestle in TNA at all, is he closer to the old RoH Davey or the American Strong Style Davey? I really wasn't a fan of the American Strong Style version when he was RoH champ.

I haven't seen much of it, my son says more Strong Style he thought.

[CU Tiger]

interesting main event....

[PurdueBrad]

Yeah, agree CU Tiger, very interesting main event.

[SirFozzie]

For all the Smark vitriol towards Cena, I challenge you to A) Find someone at the championship level to take that kind of beating and B) Not get really that much offense in return.

started cringing about the 6th german. Little did I know there was 10 remaining.

[PurdueBrad]

Yeah, I have to admit that I'm impressed that he submitted to that kind of beating. Similarly I am impressed that Randy Orton went all out to put Roman Reigns over in a solid match. Both Cena and Orton get a lot of credit from me for last night (not that that's worth anything!).

[PilotMan]

Totally agree on both Orton and Cena. Professional work by both of them last night.

[dubb93]

It was like an old school heel beatdown that sends that good guy to the hospital in an ambulance....only it was a match instead of an angle.

[PilotMan]

I wonder if the return match it setting up for will be so obvious or if there will be some mystery to it.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I wonder if the return match it setting up for will be so obvious or if there will be some mystery to it.

*snickers*

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by Mota

Tomorrow I'm going to see Smash Wrestling in Toronto.

Chris Hero vs. Matt Cross for the Championship
Super Smash Bros vs. Young Bucks
Johnny Gargano vs. Tyson Dux
Jay Lethal vs. Brent Banks

Overall it should be a pretty good show, then the bar plays Summerslam and I would guess some of the wrestlers will stick around to watch the show as well.

So how fat was Chris Hero?

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

So how fat was Chris Hero?

He's definitely gained quite a bit of weight since NXT, but he wrestled a great match in the main event against Matt Cross. It did not slow him down a bit. Pretty brutal striking as he does, had the crowd on their feet cheering to "beat the streak" of Cross who was 21-0 in Smash Wrestling. The funny thing is that they played the Undertaker theme song to open the match with a list of all the guys Cross has beaten in the past 2 years to get him to 21-0. Cross was able to pull off the win to go 22-0.

The best match of the night was definitely the Young Bucks vs. Super Smash Bros. Amazing non-stop action, one of the better tag team matches that I've seen in person (my fave is still Bryan Danielson / Tyler Black vs. American Wolves in 2009). The Young Bucks are definitely a lot more over since joining the Bullet Club in NJPW, and have improved a lot since I saw them in RoH a few years ago.

Rich Swann also was there in place of Jay Lethal, and I think that was an upgrade. Swann was able to pull the fans into the match and got things going pretty crazy with cheering and dancing. This was my first time seeing him and he really is great.

Today on Twitter the Young Bucks declared Smash Wrestling to be the Canadian version of PWG which is a huge compliment. I'd have to agree, the place was small but packed, the action was super close because there wasn't a railing and you definitely felt much more a part of the action. It definitely felt like by being there you were a part of something special.

My son was able to get a ton of pictures with some great wrestlers, and after the show the bar attached to the venue showed Summer Slam and we sat beside the wrestlers table. Overall a great night and I will definitely be going to more Smash Wrestling shows in the future.

[CU Tiger]

Ambrose vs Rollins shows what WWE could be....spot fest

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mota

The Young Bucks are definitely a lot more over since joining the Bullet Club in NJPW, and have improved a lot since I saw them in RoH a few years ago.

I sure hope so. I saw 3-4 matches when they first started to make an indy name for themselves & might well have been the worst tag team under 250 pounds each* I'd ever seen. And I've been to a LOT of weak indy cards so that's saying something.

*The caveat is due to a few heavyweight-and-nothing-else-going-for-them teams I've seen in those indies.

[Mota]

I last saw them in person probably in 2010-2011 before they went to TNA. I thought they were always good, but not necessarily complete. More of a spotfest/excitement type tag team. Now they're much better show people for sure and the matches are still quite exciting. These guys could do well anywhere but WWE where they would be instantly discredited because they are too small (and because they didn't shake Booker T's hand in the back room).

[RainMaker]

Curious what they do with Brock. I think he's fought 3 PPVs a year since he returned. With WM and now Summerslam in the books, he's likely only got one more left. How are they going to get the belt off him after making him look so dominant?

[molson]

He's done 4 a year and skipped Extreme Rules this year, so I think he has two more. Of course, they could always make a deal with him for more, but that seems unlikely with the budget cuts.

Edit: I mean two more before Mania.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Curious what they do with Brock. I think he's fought 3 PPVs a year since he returned. With WM and now Summerslam in the books, he's likely only got one more left. How are they going to get the belt off him after making him look so dominant?

Is there anything in his contract about PPV's? I thought it was just a straight 24 appearance deal.

[RainMaker]

Not sure. I do hope he is able to work more though. Can't think of a time where they had a dominant character like him.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Not sure. I do hope he is able to work more though. Can't think of a time where they had a dominant character like him.

Considering how bad they are at sticking with storylines, the best thing they can do is only have him wrestle occasionally at every other PPV, only show up to a couple RAW's in between and have Paul Heyman talking about him at a few others. If they had him every week, no way they wouldn't have John Cena or Roman Reigns get at least a distraction roll-up victory by the next PPV.

That's part of the reason some of those 80's showdown's felt so epic - because you didn't see the two trading victories every week! Seeing Brock Lesnar fight should be like that - an event because it's rare. Even with the budget cuts you've still got plenty of great worker's in the midcard who are being underutilized right now - maybe they could even start elevating the prestige of the IC or US belts if they were something guys actually wanted until they had a shot at Lesnar.

[RainMaker]

I agree. I do think it's harder to do now that the belts have been combined. If Brock had taken the WHC or something they could at least get by skipping a PPV or two with him because they'd have a WWE Championship match instead. I just don't think they can hold a PPV without a title match now.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I agree. I do think it's harder to do now that the belts have been combined. If Brock had taken the WHC or something they could at least get by skipping a PPV or two with him because they'd have a WWE Championship match instead. I just don't think they can hold a PPV without a title match now.

That's the nice thing about made up belts - they're worth exactly as much as you convince the audience they're worth. If Randy Orton goes and wins the IC belt, defends it a couple times as the closer to RAW, and argues that he should have the next shot at Lesnar because he has the IC, it's suddenly worth something. As opposed to the current strategy of having people wrestle for them on the preshow, having champions change every month, and I'd guess having the beltholders winning 20% of their non-title matches.

Plus they headlined 2 straight Wrestlemania's with a match that wasn't for the title - you're telling me Cena vs. Reigns couldn't headline a PPV? Doubly so if you made it a #1 contenders match.