FBI Opens Investigation into Shooting of Michael Brown

[stevew]

even if she was a money mule for a high level drug dealer the raid could have waited until the AM.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That undercover investigation turned out to be made up shit by the cops.

You keep saying that but do you have sources backing you up?

[JPhillips]

If I can be shot and killed because of things my exes have done, I need to spend a lot more time researching their lives since college.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

You keep saying that but do you have sources backing you up?

There's a link further up this page. It says things like:

A U.S. postal inspector in Louisville said Metro police did not use his office to verify that a drug suspect was receiving packages at Breonna Taylor's apartment, one of the factors listed in officers' request for a "no-knock" warrant for her home.

But Tony Gooden said a different law enforcement agency asked his office in January to investigate whether Taylor's home was receiving any potentially suspicious mail. After looking into the request, he said, the local office concluded that it wasn't.

"There's no packages of interest going there," he said in an interview after WDRB News contacted him Friday.

[RainMaker]

Beyond the postal inspector disputing the cops claim, the fact that nothing showed up in the apartment or anywhere else proved it was a terrible investigation. They ran a no-knock warrant on someone who had no involvement in drug running because she had an ex-boyfriend they were after.

[Drake]

Takes some great marksmanship to fire that many shots and hit the only unarmed person in the room that many times.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

There's a link further up this page. It says things like:

The same article says that the police could've simply asked somebody else.

I have no problem with someone investigating this claim but the article itself isn't proof of wrongdoing unless you're into InfoWars style of thinking.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

The same article says that the police could've simply asked somebody else.

I have no problem with someone investigating this claim but the article itself isn't proof of wrongdoing unless you're into InfoWars style of thinking.

Why don't they tell us who they asked?

The fact they found jack shit in her apartment says all you need to know about their investigation. Utter incompetence.

[JPhillips]

I don't have to provide the evidence, the cops do. They have never explained this discrepancy and now they don't have to. They could have, at any time, laid how how and why they thought the drugs were being mailed to Taylor's house. The fact that they haven't is a pretty big red flag.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I don't have to provide the evidence, the cops do. They have never explained this discrepancy and now they don't have to. They could have, at any time, laid how how and why they thought the drugs were being mailed to Taylor's house. The fact that they haven't is a pretty big red flag.

Plus the lack of body cams is a red flag to me. And how they tried to give her ex-boyfriend a sweetheart deal if he would lie and say she was involved in running drugs.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Plus the lack of body cams is a red flag to me. And how they tried to give her ex-boyfriend a sweetheart deal if he would lie and say she was involved in running drugs.

That stands out to me, knowing a Swat team member here in Phoenix they film every no knock from both the outside and with body cams. Definitely a very haphazard investigation, but again, place blame on where it goes and that is the powers that be that authorized this warrant. That piece needed much deeper investigation, instead of mainly focusing on the officers serving the warrant. The fact that they settled so damn quickly only exposes this all too well.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If I can be shot and killed because of things my exes have done, I need to spend a lot more time researching their lives since college.

I'd be completely fucked. Past me did not make good decisions about relationships, as many here are aware lol.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

That stands out to me, knowing a Swat team member here in Phoenix they film every no knock from both the outside and with body cams. Definitely a very haphazard investigation, but again, place blame on where it goes and that is the powers that be that authorized this warrant. That piece needed much deeper investigation, instead of mainly focusing on the officers serving the warrant. The fact that they settled so damn quickly only exposes this all too well.

Guessing the $12 million is so that they don't have to look into how that warrant came to be. Unlikely this was their first time fudging things.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Guessing the $12 million is so that they don't have to look into how that warrant came to be. Unlikely this was their first time fudging things.

There was 100% a clause in there that closed off this piece of it, which would have undoubtedly brought more national scrutiny if things had come out in a long drawn out civil suit.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Drake

Takes some great marksmanship to fire that many shots and hit the only unarmed person in the room that many times.

And that's propably one of the few things most officers do receive sufficient training in.

[Edward64]

Good that nothing big happened. Lots of pics.

Proud Boys wearing military armor gather for pro-Trump rally to 'end domestic terrorism' in Portland | Daily Mail Online

Police say a right-wing Proud Boys rally and counter-protests in Portland, Oregon, have largely dispersed without serious violence, though they are investigating an assault after one person who was documenting the event was pushed to the ground and kicked in the face.

About 1,000 people gathered at the Proud Boys rally in Delta Park on Saturday, while a group of 500 left-wing counter-protesters massed at nearby Peninsula Park, leading to fears of clashes.

Politics aside, my favorite pic is below. No idea of the context (e.g. cuck) but the spartan helmet is cool.

[JPhillips]

He's making a white power sign, so fuck him and his cool helmet.

[Atocep]

They were claiming 10k would show up. I love how these right wing rallies consistently draw smaller than expected crowds but they believe they're the majority.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

He's making a white power sign, so fuck him and his cool helmet.

Behind the cool helmet that makes it impossible to see who he is no less. Fucking coward, if you are going to be a racist piece of shit have the balls to own it.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

He's making a white power sign, so fuck him and his cool helmet.

I’m not racist, but the KKK look is so cool

[RainMaker]

Don't think I've ever seen this before. More or less accusing the DA of tanking the case.

Breaking: A member of the Breonna Taylor grand jury just filed a remarkable motion asking a judge to release the entire proceedings of the grand jury. The motion strongly suggests that Attorney General Cameron's public comments contradict what was presented to the grand jury.

— Radley Balko (@radleybalko) September 28, 2020

[ISiddiqui]

Holy shit. That's unheard of.

[Ksyrup]

Interesting motion. I don't have any context for whether this has a snowball's chance in Kentucky of being granted, but merely the fact that it was filed probably serves the purpose of calling the entire thing into question and holding Cameron's feet to the fire.

[Ksyrup]

Reading some comments on twitter and bringing this thread full circle, apparently a grand juror in the Michael Brown case did the same thing and failed to get the transcript released.

[Edward64]

Black Portland cop talking about the protests. Worth a listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha-7...ature=youtu.be

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Black Portland cop talking about the protests. Worth a listen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjiq...ature=youtu.be

I watched it. I appreciate his perspective. As a white person who isn't actively protesting but who is actively looking for ways to be involved in the BLM Movement:


-- Systemic racism cannot be beaten by minorities alone. Institutions founded on racist principals cannot be torn down by minorities alone. Any white person who has "woken up" to any of this in the last 6 months has heard countless black activists say that this is up to white people to fix. We created the institutions, we still run them today, enough white people have to get involved to create the change needed to bring about true equality.

-- That said, this is a black led movement, as far as immediate organization or protests, charities, proper ways for grass roots organizations to try to improve things at a local level. White people cannot come in and take that over. White people should instead be learning the history and learning where their assistance is needed and for the most part falling in line with that.

-- There are some folks who will say that it is part of the job of white people at a protest to make sure that police violence isn't directed at black people, or not "just" at black people. If there is a standoff with the cops, make sure white faces are at the front, make sure any officer thinking of taking an aggressive action sees those white faces.

-- There's a HUGE difference in being part of the front line in a CONFLICT with officers, and stepping in when a black protestor aims to have a conversation with a black officer. That's a huge no-no. The privileged white people do not get to have that say.


That addresses my feelings of the first few minutes of his statements.

To the rest of it, I don't think the movement or the protests are "something else now". And I have intentionally curated my following on most social media so that I am listening to black activists who have been involved in these issues for decades longer than me, and from what I can tell, neither do they.

Regarding the looting of a black owned business, that really sucks. But again, when I see the activists that I follow comment or make videos on the subject, they do not ever want to see white people instigating that violence, but are more understanding that its impossible for this movement to never have a violent moment. Typically the stance is to push back at any comments about looting, even of black owned businesses, as many of these folks are business owners themselves, commenting that they have insurance for this purpose, and not to be taken in to this conservative talking point. Typically the feeling is that those who oppose BLM make these arguments as a distraction from the real purpose and cause, the common response being that too many people are more concerned about property than people.



I completely appreciate this officer's experiences with being called racial slurs, and with white officers coming to his defense, that's great. I'm a little (but only a little) torn on the "ACAB" concept. Which, by the way, specifically to me and to most I listen to and discuss with, is "all cops are bastards" NOT "all cops are bad" which to me is an important distinction. There is the stereotype of the power hungry racist cop who can't wait to beat down some black folks, and while its not really that external, yeah, that's the history of the police, so I'm not going to argue that stereotype doesn't have its place, but its really not the point. Police Unions and Policing across the nation blackballs officers who speak out against other officers. Thin Blue Line, they've got to stick together, etc etc. ACAB as I usually hear it discussed is about the institution, and what it enforces in the people. You can be a good guy and you can spend 99% of your time being a good cop in every sense of the word, but if you witness the type of violence that BLM is protesting, you better toe the ilne. Get your story straight and stick to it. Don't jump in to stop that violence (how do we feel about the officers who didn't kneel on George Floyd's neck but who stood idly by watching a man die? That's one example, many other cases of police violence are more egregious, and there are always many officers standing idly by, and falling in line with the same story after the fact). Whistleblowers are harrassed, threatened, harmed... ACAB because of their participation in a corrupt system that will eject them if they make an effort to root out the worst cops.


A lot of this is my own opinion, a lot of it is just reporting/regurgitating what I am in the process of learning from Black creators and activists on social media.

[Radii]

I'll dola followup:

My perspective is that of someone who believes that institutional and systemic racism exist across countless parts of our government and power structures, and that there is a desperate need to change this in order to be a better nation. If you don't believe this, we probably lack common ground to discuss much, I know that some of the stuff I say above will sound off because of that to some. I can appreciate some difference of opinion for sure, but the existence of the problem and the need to change it are kind of baseline starting points for me.

IDK, felt worth clarifying to put perspective on my last long post.

[Radii]

I don't think this was linked at the time, but the Fox News narrative is so far over the line that the truth is probably completely obscured at this point:


Demonstrations & Political Violence in America: New Data for Summer 2020 | ACLED

The vast majority of demonstration events associated with the BLM movement are non-violent (see map below). In more than 93% of all demonstrations connected to the movement, demonstrators have not engaged in violence or destructive activity. Peaceful protests are reported in over 2,400 distinct locations around the country. Violent demonstrations,4 meanwhile, have been limited to fewer than 220 locations — under 10% of the areas that experienced peaceful protests. In many urban areas like Portland, Oregon, for example, which has seen sustained unrest since Floyd’s killing, violent demonstrations are largely confined to specific blocks, rather than dispersed throughout the city

Portland is still a top destination for my next move coming Summer 2021, my MAGA neighbor honestly thinks that I'm going to die if I move there because the entire city is a battleground every night.

Yet, despite data indicating that demonstrations associated with the BLM movement are overwhelmingly peaceful, one recent poll suggested that 42% of respondents believe “most protesters [associated with the BLM movement] are trying to incite violence or destroy property”

[GrantDawg]

I agree completely, Radii. You wrote it so much better than I ever could.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[thesloppy]

He's not wrong. There is an element of violent (white) dumbasses on the left and within these protests, and particularly in Portland, and they just get more concentrated the longer the protests go on, as people with legitimate concerns get frustrated/tired. That said, when the topic turned to the police he immediately farted out the stale party line, which didn't help his credibility in my eyes.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Radii

Portland is still a top destination for my next move coming Summer 2021, my MAGA neighbor honestly thinks that I'm going to die if I move there because the entire city is a battleground every night.

FWIW I live about 2 blocks from where a lot of the protests/marches start & a half-mile from the Justice Center itself & the protests/riots/fires have had literally zero effect on me or anybody I know.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

FWIW I live about 2 blocks from where a lot of the protests/marches start & a half-mile from the Justice Center itself & the protests/riots/fires have had literally zero effect on me or anybody I know.

Our main office is like 5 blocks and haven't had any issues. It's a really nice city.

[Ksyrup]

This is the same thing I posted about a week or so ago about the Breonna Taylor protests in Louisville and my parents' horror of the thought of me going downtown to my office. Completely overblown as a wide-spread violent movement. Yes, there were isolated incidents - most notably 2 cops getting shot - but by last Monday, our offices were open as usual. The announcement happened 5 days earlier.

[miami_fan]

Many of you may have been unfamiliar with this case. It had not really taken hold nationally until his childhood friend and former MLB player Will Middlebrooks began raising funds for his memorial.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/us/jo...xas/index.html

The reactions to the details of this case (not the evidence) since the news broke on Sunday have been... different.

[stevew]

It's laughable that most 22 years old can have guns and be cops.

[stevew]

is that cop Eric Cartman, btw?

[RainMaker]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/07/us/br...ral/index.html

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Many of you may have been unfamiliar with this case. It had not really taken hold nationally until his childhood friend and former MLB player Will Middlebrooks began raising funds for his memorial.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/us/jo...xas/index.html

The reactions to the details of this case (not the evidence) since the news broke on Sunday have been... different.

Very similar to a case we had here in Illinois. A drunk guy went to the bar and started shooting up the place from outside. Hit 4 people with bullets. This security guard stopped the shooter and subdued him. Then was shot by the police.

Cops mostly lied about the incident.

Shooting of Jemel Roberson - Wikipedia

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/07/us/br...ral/index.html

I am missing something here. I listened to the grand jury testimony over the weekend. The recordings were edited removing some addresses (weird) and all phone numbers. Is the AG trying to get the recordings resealed? Also the Louisville Metro Police Dept releases their investigation today.

[Brian Swartz]

I have a question which will sound sarcastic, but it's not. In reading recent posts here, a nagging feeling in the back of my head has been strengthened. I think there's something that's generally accepted as a truism here that I would probably answer differently than the board.

So - and this is to everyone, moderate, conservative, liberal, etc. - why is racism wrong? What, from the standpoint of fundamental principles, is bad about it from a moral/ethical/betterment-of-society standpoint (if anything).

Before someone gets the wrong idea, this isn't a gotcha question and I would fully agree with the self-evident IMO proposition that racism is a moral evil. But I am more and more convinced that my why is different than many posters here.

So what you say you? What's your why?

[cuervo72]

Oh, so after we've finally gotten past having to define it, now we have to discuss why racism is bad?

No.

(Now where is that ignore button?)

[sterlingice]

I guess I can play.

I mean, there's the golden rule that almost every major religion and philosophy have, though this sometimes gets warped into being self-serving (do unto others because you wouldn't want them to be a jerk to you).

Being a pretty strong utilitarian, I'm partial to Rawls veil of ignorance (i.e. if you didn't know where you were in society, you'd try to make the most fair social contract as possible) - we should make our laws and beliefs fair and just.

There's the whole "having empathy for others" - like how would I feel if I were in that position.

In the end, it all boils down to "how about we not be a dick to fellow human beings, especially for something as superficial as their skin color or place of origin".

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Oh, so after we've finally gotten past having to define it, now we have to discuss why racism is bad?

So, a couple (few?) years ago, I was talking with my coworkers and one (more?) of them said something pretty racist and I called them on it. The kneejerk reaction was "Nuh-uh, I'm not a racist". I bailed on that conversation after a bit and I could hear my other racist coworkers still talking about it. That night, on the way home, I predicted to my wife (and I still think this is true): We're less than a generation away from the kneejerk reaction to racist (or sexist or whatever) things being "what I didn't do was racist (because I know being called a racist* is bad)" to racism not being inherently bad.

*And, yes, I realize most of the time, they don't even know /why/ being racist is bad but they know it's a pretty bad label. However, I think there are people working hard to make it seem less bad for future generations.

SI

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Oh, so after we've finally gotten past having to define it, now we have to discuss why racism is bad?

No.

(Now where is that ignore button?)

It's always worth re-examining first principles, even if purely as an intellectual exercise. It helps drill down to the differences in how people think, particularly when there are issues one might consider core assumptions that perhaps might not be fully shared.

If that makes you want to put someone on ignore, it says more about you than anyone else.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

It's always worth re-examining first principles, even if purely as an intellectual exercise. It helps drill down to the differences in how people think, particularly when there are issues one might consider core assumptions that perhaps might not be fully shared.

If that makes you want to put someone on ignore, it says more about you that anyone else.

I often think about the bolded part, not just with racism, but with pretty much all "moral" choices--particularly with regard to the secular vs. the sacred. What's the non-religious justification for "racism is wrong," or, for that matter, that cannibalism is wrong? My opinion? Yours? The collective opinion of humankind? Who is to say?
So, yes, I say that racism is wrong because we're all made in the image of God and have intrinsic value, that when the Kingdom is actualized, there will be people from every tribe, nation, and tongue, and therefore excluding anyone is wrong. But apart from referencing a higher power that says so, what's the argument against "I was born with blue eyes and that makes me superior?" Or "It's ok to kill living things in order to eat. We do it with kale, spinach, cows, pigs, broccoli, and fish all the time. I've decided that I want to eat humans."

[Ben E Lou]

This new one coming out of Texas is confusing. Depending on which story you read, the deceased was either walking away, reaching for the officer's taser, or offering a handshake. The fact that the officer was arrested within 48 hours would seem to indicate that it was pretty egregious. There is body cam video, so perhaps that's what the arrest is based on?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

This new one coming out of Texas is confusing. Depending on which story you read, the deceased was either walking away, reaching for the officer's taser, or offering a handshake. The fact that the officer was arrested within 48 hours would seem to indicate that it was pretty egregious. There is body cam video, so perhaps that's what the arrest is based on?

Or D) all of the above according to the affidavit.

https://abc13.com/jonathan-price-sha...texas/6874281/

An affidavit released this week said that when Lucas arrived at the convenience store on Oct. 3 he was greeted by Price, who asked the officer "you doing good" several times and extended his hand in a handshake gesture. Price apologized for broken glass on the ground, telling the officer someone had tried "to wrap me up."

The affidavit said Lucas thought Price was intoxicated and tried to detain him. Price said "I can't be detained" as Lucas grabbed at his arm and used verbal commands. When Lucas produced a stun gun, Price began to walk away.
After Lucas deployed the stun gun, which wasn't fully effective, Price walked toward him and appeared to reach out to grab the end of the stun gun, the affidavit said.

The affidavit said that Lucas then fired four times, striking Price in the upper torso. Price was later pronounced dead at a hospital.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

It's always worth re-examining first principles, even if purely as an intellectual exercise. It helps drill down to the differences in how people think, particularly when there are issues one might consider core assumptions that perhaps might not be fully shared.

If that makes you want to put someone on ignore, it says more about you than anyone else.

I think that is important, which is why I responded.

But it's also either really naive or concern trolly to not see why someone would question your motives in this. In short, it says a lot about you, too.

SI

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Or D) all of the above according to the affidavit.

https://abc13.com/jonathan-price-sha...texas/6874281/

Right...and that version doesn't really add up, either. "I can't be detained"...Grabbed at the ineffective stun gun while walking toward the officer...and that gets the officer a fast murder charge and a firing for "egregious violation" of policy? I'm guessing that the video must be pretty bad--that it's clear that the taser never should have been deployed in the first place, or perhaps that the "appeared to reach out to grab" is an overstatement. The facts that are out there don't make it sound like something so cut and dried to expect a near-immediate murder charge and firing, so I'm guessing there's more to it than what we've been told.

[spleen1015]

@Brian, what's your "why"?

Don't pose the question of everyone else's "why", wondering if it matches your own without posting your own.

You get to see everyone else's and then change yours if you want.