COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778)

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I also have been avoiding the gym because of virus reasons and not because I'm lazy or anything.

I'll have you know that in "normal" times, I avoid the gym more because I'm cheap than because I'm lazy

One of the perks of living in Houston is that it's pretty much never too cold to go outside. So, as long as you're ok with some heat, you always have a place to exercise.

SI

[Ksyrup]

The woman who was fired from Florida Health Department a couple of months ago because she was reporting too much information claims that the DOH has been instructed to start fudging numbers downward (deleting cases/deaths) to support July 4th activities.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The woman who was fired from Florida Health Department a couple of months ago because she was reporting too much information claims that the DOH has been instructed to start fudging numbers downward (deleting cases/deaths) to support July 4th activities.

I saw that. On the one hand, her tweets present it as solid information (she claims to have gotten confirmation from 3 separate sources within the Florida Department of Health). And I'd put nothing past Florida's leadership at this point--up to and including hiding dead bodies.

On the other hand, disgruntled former employees are notoriously unreliable sources of information about their former employers.

I figure that if that's true and widespread enough within the Florida DOH that 3 separate sources are able to talk about it, then an actual news organization will be on the story pretty soon. But if all we every hear about it is from her, then I'm keeping on my skeptical glasses.

[Ksyrup]

Agreed. Although the fact that they've already changed the way hospitalizations are counted knowing that beyond cases, people are looking at hospitalizations and deaths, suggests she is probably on to something. And like I've said with Trump time and time again, when completely unproven allegations are made that fit your MO for stuff we know you've done, then you kinda lose the benefit of the doubt.

[albionmoonlight]

Dr. Fauci said yesterday that he thinks there could be a vaccine by year's end and that he believes it will be a matter of when and not if.

That fits with other stuff I've tried to keep up with involving the science (though it is all over my head, so I am relying on summaries from sources I trust).

It seems like the news from the vaccine front is pretty good.
It seems like the news from the treatment front is pretty mixed.
It seems like the news from the "wear masks and socially distance" front is bad.

[Ksyrup]

This is from Mississippi, but it could apply to many places. It's hard not to be pessimistic when you read this kind of stuff, which aligns with what many of us see/hear about in our communities.

State Health Officer Warns in Interview: Prepare For Overwhelmed Hospitals by Fall | Jackson Free Press | Jackson, MS

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The woman who was fired from Florida Health Department a couple of months ago because she was reporting too much information claims that the DOH has been instructed to start fudging numbers downward (deleting cases/deaths) to support July 4th activities.

I recently watched an interview with Thomas Sowell from a few years ago. Most know him as a conservative columnist/economist. In his youth, he was a Marxist. He was asked how he went from one extreme to the other.

He told the story of himself as a young economist with the Department of Labor that was looking at the impact of the minimum wage law. Puerto Rico had been hit by a hurricane the same year that the law went into effect Puerto Rico. Unemployment had gone up significantly that same season, particularly with regards to migrant farmers. What was in question was whether or not the hurricane or the minimum wage law was the cause of the unemployment numbers. The group evaluating this was at an impasse, and Sowell suggested that they get figures from the Department of Agriculture regarding previous year numbers of acres of sugar that had been planted, and compare those numbers to the year in question and to rule out the impact of the hurricane look at acres planted and acres harvested. The group was horrified and threw up roadblocks to getting the data. It was then that he realized the group really did not want to know what the truth was. There was too much risk to those in the room. It was then (as he relates it) that he realized that government and government agencies have an agenda that is not necessarily for the good of the people, but for the good of those in government and in those agencies.

[booradley]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

I recently watched an interview with Thomas Sowell from a few years ago. Most know him as a conservative columnist/economist. In his youth, he was a Marxist. He was asked how he went from one extreme to the other.

He told the story of himself as a young economist with the Department of Labor that was looking at the impact of the minimum wage law. Puerto Rico had been hit by a hurricane the same year that the law went into effect Puerto Rico. Unemployment had gone up significantly that same season, particularly with regards to migrant farmers. What was in question was whether or not the hurricane or the minimum wage law was the cause of the unemployment numbers. The group evaluating this was at an impasse, and Sowell suggested that they get figures from the Department of Agriculture regarding previous year numbers of acres of sugar that had been planted, and compare those numbers to the year in question and to rule out the impact of the hurricane look at acres planted and acres harvested. The group was horrified and threw up roadblocks to getting the data. It was then that he realized the group really did not want to know what the truth was. There was too much risk to those in the room. It was then (as he relates it) that he realized that government and government agencies have an agenda that is not necessarily for the good of the people, but for the good of those in government and in those agencies.

Watched the same interview myself a couple of days ago. It was eye-opening.

[ISiddiqui]

That seems a bit simplistic of a complaint, tbh. Marxists (and leftists in general) are hypercritical of governments in liberal Democracy. Their complaint is that government bureaucracy in liberal Democracy are beholden to special interests and perverse incentives (just look at how agency budgeting is done).

I see this myself, the higher ups in my agency (who are close to the political appointees) are concerned with things like pumping up certain numbers to continue funding. So this leads to a focus on things that have more 'measurables' - so companies changing practices that may help a lot of participants going forward is far less than money paid out because the Assistant Secretary can report to Congress that corps paid $X mil to Participants. Though on some level it's understandable, because reducing funding does things like basically make it incredibly hard for us to do onsite investigations because we don't have funds for travel.

[MIJB#19]

Expectations over here are we'll be pretty much out of lockdown from July 1st on, depending on what gets announced about an hour from now. Still the 5-6 foot limitations, but a lot is expected to be opened up. I'm wary of the effects...

[panerd]

Since I am a teacher my wife bought me some funny masks to wear to work this coming school year. I wore one today with a big smile and goofy mustache on it to the store. I have to say it's more fun angering the people who don't wear masks than it is having people laugh or comment that are wearing the masks. Don't understand the mask "issue" at all. Actually saw a family of 5 where 4 of them were wearing the teenage son wasn't.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by panerd

Since I am a teacher my wife bought me some funny masks to wear to work this coming school year. I wore one today with a big smile and goofy mustache on it to the store. I have to say it's more fun angering the people who don't wear masks than it is having people laugh or comment that are wearing the masks. Don't understand the mask "issue" at all. Actually saw a family of 5 where 4 of them were wearing the teenage son wasn't.

I'm definitely not going to spend lunch time looking for goofy masks online. No sir.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'm definitely not going to spend lunch time looking for goofy masks online. No sir.

SI

Look for? Hell, those probably account for 50% of the Facebook ads I see for the past month

[Ksyrup]

Signs pointing to golf tourney this weekend getting cancelled.

I understand the economics involved, but I just feel like 90% of sports are futile to try to bring back until next year, It will only be by brute force that sports goes uninterrupted through early next year.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Signs pointing to golf tourney this weekend getting cancelled.

I understand the economics involved, but I just feel like 90% of sports are futile to try to bring back until next year, It will only be by brute force that sports goes uninterrupted through early next year.

I don't get this. Koepkas caddie tested positive, so he withdraws.

Last week a player tested positive in the middle of the tournament and they played it out. Why cancel this time?

[Ksyrup]

Although timing might be moot, CT just instituted a 14-day quarantine for people coming from TX, SC and FL. Maybe everyone's already there, but that probably doesn't help.

EDIT: As of today, the list of states includes: Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina, Texas, Utah & Washington.

[Ksyrup]

To tie the mask and sports topics together, you couldn't pay me enough to spend 2-3+ hours outside attending a sporting event (or really anything outside) while wearing a mask. And I'm pro-mask wearing, but 15 minutes walking around the Lowe's outdoor section with my wife, and I'm sweating and uncomfortable.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Although timing might be moot, CT just instituted a 14-day quarantine for people coming from TX, SC and FL. Maybe everyone's already there, but that probably doesn't help.

Have always wondered about quarantines. I assume they are mostly for airlines? Like Hawaii seems fairly easy to issue a quarantine. How in the world would they know if somebody drove from Texas to New York though? Is just just the honor system? Is there an actual punishment? Just seems like something that is largely symbolic as people that refuse to wear masks etc don't seem like the type that would honor a quarantine.

I admit it does worry me a bit as Missouri seems to have a lot of idiots. Hope they don't cause a quarantine alert for the entire state since we have a Yellowstone/Mount Rushmore trip planned next month!

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

To tie the mask and sports topics together, you couldn't pay me enough to spend 2-3+ hours outside attending a sporting event (or really anything outside) while wearing a mask. And I'm pro-mask wearing, but 15 minutes walking around the Lowe's outdoor section with my wife, and I'm sweating and uncomfortable.

Yeah I don't really think that is where the opposition to masks comes from but I have to say if I have to go back to teaching and am fairly certain it will require a mask all day I am going to look forward to 3:30 and pulling that thing off in my car!

[ISiddiqui]

So in my friend group text day, I was just informed that our local bar is going to open up it's 'bar side' a week from Wednesday. It's 'restaurant side' has been open for a few weeks now. So my friend was trying to find out how many would be going up. Covid 19 cases in Georgia are spiking back up right now, and multiple people in this friend group have serious underlying conditions. Yet it seems I'm the only one saying, nah, I'm not going to be sitting at an open bar anytime soon.

They think it's because I have a new kid, but it's because cases are spiking and seems like it's going to get a loooot worse before it gets better. I tried to make the point (and said, ask me again in August), but I feel it may fall on deaf ears.

[Butter]

The thing about quarantines is that they're all essentially voluntary. Not sure how anybody expects anything to really be enforced, there just isn't any infrastructure to do that, unless someone's doing something I'm not aware of.

[ISiddiqui]

Oh shit...

Across the United States, more than 36,000 new infections were reported by state health departments on Wednesday — surpassing the previous single-day record of 34,203 set on April 25. Texas, Florida and California led the way, with all three states reporting more than 5,000 new cases apiece.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ve-updates-us/

In Arizona, intensive care unit beds are 88 percent full, while inpatient beds are 86 percent full, according to state data.

California's hospitalizations are also way up as are Texas's.

[whomario]

Re: Quarantine: For people staying in hotels etc (and they are really the issue, not people visiting relatives and mostly meeting people they know anyway and vice versa) it can't be that difficult to 'get the drop' on them or rather have them be afraid enough of that possibility (provided a big fine is attached) to consider cancelling the trip. Because really nobody will actually do it and stay in the hotel room. Just assuming you need to identify yourself checking in with your home adress.


Another thing: nationwide deaths seem (!) to have stopped dropping going by numbers from Yesterday and today compared to last week same days. (Yes, just a snapshot)
So now in 2-3 weeks we should have a better idea what damage on that front (again, not dying can still mean a loooong illness and recovery, if not permanet damage) the current* spike has done. And yes, it is a genuine spike and not merely a byproduct of more tests.

* Though all that 'happening' right now still actually happened a week or 10 days ago what with reporting delays and people not getting tested day one. So whatever is changed now (by people or officials) would also only affect numbers in 10 days.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

To tie the mask and sports topics together, you couldn't pay me enough to spend 2-3+ hours outside attending a sporting event (or really anything outside) while wearing a mask. And I'm pro-mask wearing, but 15 minutes walking around the Lowe's outdoor section with my wife, and I'm sweating and uncomfortable.

Same. Bless those people who have to do it all day for their job.

[JPhillips]

Almost 40k cases today spread out much more than in April and we're mostly responding with a shrug.

[Ksyrup]

First we had quarantine fatigue, now we have failure to adhere to social distancing protocols fatigue.

Four years of constantly having to listen to/battle against Trump's BS, on top of an election year, pandemic, BLM, etc. It's just too much. We're tired of waking up each morning to the same shitty day over and over. It's CovidTrumpHog Day.

[Atocep]

Washington is going to mandatory masks starting Friday. Yakima county is getting hammered and businesses that don't enforce masks there will be shut down.

[Lathum]

I have the same feeling now that I did in early March when things were getting bad, I had plans coming up over the next few months, and I just wasn't sure what would happen.

[sterlingice]

The projections for Houston are not getting better

https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-upda...upancy-growth/

Usually projections are just that, off in the future. But how about

If this growth continues, TMC will
* Exceed base ICU capacity in 1 day (6/25)
* Exceed sustainable surge capacity in 12 days (7/6)

https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-upda...ovid-19-cases/

We just picked up 2300 new cases today. Our previous high for a day was in the 1600s.

We're so screwed here, despite having the largest medical center in the world.

It doesn't matter if it's all "just the flu".

SI

[QuikSand]

Overnight, the nation saw a new record for new coronavirus cases in a single day, 45,000, as well as a record number of hospitalizations across the Sun Belt. @SamBrockNBC reports from Houston, one of the hardest-hit cities in Texas. pic.twitter.com/gfF8Fw2g5X

— TODAY (@TODAYshow) June 25, 2020

[JPhillips]

The greatest policy failure in American history.

[bob]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The greatest policy failure in American history.

Possibly, but that lets the American citizens and their actions completely off the hook.

[CrimsonFox]

Cheer up, guys. We may be at an alltime high in cases, but at least amusement parks open next week!
.

[Lathum]

I have this treatment I get every 2-3 months are a chemo infusion center. I do not have cancer.

As you would imagine they are pretty stringent with their screening and protocol. I am here today. In the waiting room lady next to me has her mask pulled down below her nose. Now I am in the actual chemo infusion center and the guy across the way has his mask around his neck.

We can put all the rules in place and it doesn't matter. A certain percentage of the population is either too stupid or too stubborn to follow them. Even in a cancer ward.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by bob

Possibly, but that lets the American citizens and their actions completely off the hook.

Partially. I don't see any tightening of the rules to keep it from spreading. Are people being charged for not wearing their masks? If there are no repercussions and no incentive to do the right thing, people will do what's easiest.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Mota

Partially. I don't see any tightening of the rules to keep it from spreading. Are people being charged for not wearing their masks? If there are no repercussions and no incentive to do the right thing, people will do what's easiest.

I get your point, but at the same time, is America in a place right now where it would be good to police the wearing of masks?

[henry296]

Originally Posted by Mota

Partially. I don't see any tightening of the rules to keep it from spreading. Are people being charged for not wearing their masks? If there are no repercussions and no incentive to do the right thing, people will do what's easiest.

However, in states like PA where the governor has been more emphatic about wearing masks, we are not seeing significant case increases. Messaging is important.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I get your point, but at the same time, is America in a place right now where it would be good to police the wearing of masks?

Agreed

Heck, just imagine if cops try to arrest someone at a BLM protest who wasn't wearing a mask!

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by henry296

However, in states like PA where the governor has been more emphatic about wearing masks, we are not seeing significant case increases. Messaging is important.

Same in Colorado. New cases are now plateauing instead of falling but they are still at a low level and the positivity is good. And lowest hospitalization numbers since March. Governor got on the mask wearing early and I'm still seeing a good level of mask wearing at stores and taprooms.

[sterlingice]

Meanwhile, in Texas, we're fucked

Si

[CrimsonFox]

I'm going through withdrawal. I need another Lathum zinger!

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I get your point, but at the same time, is America in a place right now where it would be good to police the wearing of masks?

Could the timing be any worse than it has been? You are right.

[cartman]

Anti-Mask Floridians Hurl Conspiracy Theories At Officials In Wild Public Meeting

I wonder how these people feel about "no shirt, no shoes, no service" policies

[ISiddiqui]

That public meeting reminded of "Parks and Recreation"

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

First we had quarantine fatigue, now we have failure to adhere to social distancing protocols fatigue.

Four years of constantly having to listen to/battle against Trump's BS, on top of an election year, pandemic, BLM, etc. It's just too much. We're tired of waking up each morning to the same shitty day over and over. It's CovidTrumpHog Day.

This is so fucking true. I am exhausted.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Anti-Mask Floridians Hurl Conspiracy Theories At Officials In Wild Public Meeting

I wonder how these people feel about "no shirt, no shoes, no service" policies

I swear that I feel like an awful human being every time I think to myself, "It wouldn't be that bad, if such and such person, died." The reality is that I do in fact have those thoughts, and it probably makes me more like Jon than anything else, which I also hate. Except that I regret having those thoughts, where he does not.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I get your point, but at the same time, is America in a place right now where it would be good to police the wearing of masks?

Texas police will not cite mask order violaters
So, back in late April, a month before George Floyd died and the subsequent protests and police actions, a judge issued a mask order for Harris county. Our imbecilic police union President, well, here:

On Friday he thanked Turner in a tweet for “being reasonable and telling folks HPD will not be issuing fines for Judge Hidalgo’s draconian mask order.”

So, yes, Harris county had a mask order in place but the police refused to enforce it.

Texas face mask orders return in counties across the state | The Texas Tribune
Of course, part of Texas's (dumb) COVID executive order is that local municipalities cannot impose penalties for not wearing masks so they're merely suggestions.

Although the governor issued an executive order June 3 banning local governments from imposing fines or criminal penalties on people who don't wear masks in public, Abbott on Wednesday commended Wolff for putting the onus for face masks on businesses.

It's hard to keep this thread non-political when our stupid ass elected officials keep making it so. They know Harris county, for instance, would have a mask order with fines, if allowed. But it's probably unenforceable due to non-compliance from the police union. So what the hell are we supposed to do?

SI

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I'm going through withdrawal. I need another Lathum zinger!

I got nothing. I spent 3 hours at a chemo infusion center today and people weren't wearing masks correctly.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

That public meeting reminded of "Parks and Recreation"

Someone was on the same wavelength as you, Imran.

We’re officially living in a Parks and Rec episode. #WearAMask pic.twitter.com/LknwwdYmvF

— BLM-Law (@LawJSharma) June 25, 2020

[ISiddiqui]

It's amazing how right that show was about local government.